The problem of spiritual experiences

[Beany]

Yeah, that fits with how I explain it. What else would I be able to call it? I don't know. So I go with "spiritual". The same term I would have rolled my eyes at and snicker hearing another say, which changed overnight. How crazy!

But I think Carl Jung was really going somewhere with his personal experiences and interpretations of what I call spiritual. He would translate it in a different way with his own terms using psychology education. But while I don't fully understand his whole thing there, I agree that it is all related to our mind. But what isn't?

I'm just paying close attention to certain things I absolutely adore out of the blue now, in my every day life. The Sun, moon, water, trees, dirt even, lol. I had ignored this all for my whole life, why am I now loving these things? I say it is because of a spiritual change, only because this is the best term I know to use.

Yeah, snickering and rolling my eyes, did a lot of that. So my experience had a large physical component to it; i.e. "seeing things", hyperawareness & sensitivity, etc., maybe it WAS largely physical, in that my 5-6 senses seemed to start operating in overdrive, like my body was on a dimmer switch turned to low then all of a sudden it switched to bright. Here's what Maslow says from Wiki: "They are not true mystical experiences, but rather inspirations, ecstasies, and raptures. It is thought that probably the majority of peak experiences fall into this category. Absolute peak experiences are characteristic of mystical experiences, and are comparable to experiences of great mystics in history. They are timeless, spaceless, and characterized by unity, in which the subject and object becomes one." The sense of unity is perhaps the one that has had the greatest impact on my life.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

Do such experiences constitute proof positive that there is something otherworldly going on? Personally, I'm skeptical and think that all these things can be comfortably explained in this-worldly terms, if one cares to subordinate emotion to reason (and I am one who does).

As I mentioned many times before: the only way to be totally sure about "otherworldly going on" is to really die and come back from the dead. That should give you the proof you're seeking. On the other hand, it's not up to us to decide whether or not we are able to come back again in the same time period, in the same body. Edited September 18, 2012 by braveone2u

[Quaentum]

Greetings forum, today my thoughts turn to the concept of spiritual experiences and the problems they present for both Christianity and Atheism. Basically I feel like that if God is real, then how does one account for the great deal of suffering and sorrow in the world. If Jesus really did heal all the people he came in contact with then why do many people die from illness and injury. The lack of spiritual experiences presents a serious problem for the Church and it's claims. Furthermore, Atheists also are in a bind due to the fact that the constant accounts of hauntings, aliens abductions, and recovered memories of past lives seem to indicate that the material world is not all that there is. I am interested in what everyone has to say.

I don't have the exact quote, but George Burns, playing the part of God in "Oh God" said something along the lines of that he put man on Earth and it was up to us to make it work.

[Beany]

As I mentioned many times before: the only way to be totally sure about "otherworldly going on" is to really die and come back from the dead. That should give you the proof you're seeking. On the other hand, it's not up to us to decide whether or not we are able to come back again in the same time period, in the same body.

See, it's a language problem again, I think. What's otherwordly? I see lots of stuff many people don't see, but I understand it as being part of the natural world, instead of something "other." Sort of like 200 years ago when people weren't able to see microbes & bacteria. Then the microscope came along and allowed us to see them, but still, we can only see them if we use the proper equipment. So maybe there's more stuff like that floating around, and we just haven't developed the instrumentation that allows us to "see" them. My reality is that we share our planet with "supernatural" entities & beings, they're just another component of creation, and there really is nothing supernatural about them. In fact, maybe they perceive or don't perceive us in the same way. Does one of them go home and say, Honey, you won't believe what I saw today!

[StarMountainKid]

Hi SMK, This is one of the best explanations I have seen, It also reveals how the thought maker that we have to listen to all day is our jailer that actually keeps us from experiencing our true nature, although I don’t recommend the good doctors method, just get yourself a good teacher and practice meditation.

Great video. I think everyone who has had a spiritual experience should watch it. I think all experience is created within the brain. "The life force power of the universe"...the experience of oneness...is an electro-chemical process of the brain's right hemisphere, evolved for reasons of survival.

I think in meditation this right hemisphere of our brain becomes more ascendant, or the left hemisphere is subdued. Whether this "spiritual experience" that has been reported here is fundamental to the universe, I don't know, but I have little belief that it is. I recognize that to the person involved it is an actual, real experience. That's all to the good, but I consider this a psychological experience, not of cosmic or spiritual origin.

The goal of meditation is, I think, to achieve this psychological state of consciousness. Would we all make an effort to realize this consciousness, the world would be a calmer place in which to live.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

See, it's a language problem again, I think. What's otherwordly?

I totally agree. An accurate description is "another reality." Nirvana, for example, is "another reality." Everything outside of Nirvana is all-inclusive. Edited September 18, 2012 by braveone2u

[StarMountainKid]

braveone2u, I'm wondering what your definition of "nirvana" is?

[Beany]

I'm happy to explore all the alternatives to "spiritual awakening", it might help me to better understand myself and how I experience the world. I will say that my experiences permanently changed my life for the better, however one chooses to define it. Being a practical person, that's as valuable as anything else. I do know people who've had these kinds of experiences and blew it off, so it never had much of an impact on them, or much value, either. Well, heck there aren't two people exactly the same, no matter how many billions are on the planet. It's sort of like the human equivalent of the super box of crayons; it takes all 64 to make a full box. The diversity is always fascinating and often amusing, and sometimes annoying, but I'd rather have it all than not.

[Marcion Meets E. Sibyl]

braveone2u, I'm wondering what your definition of "nirvana" is?

Nirvana is the process of deleting the residue of "you," accumulated memories of past lives and the remaining "awareness" of "you" (during the Nirvana process). This process takes place in the Infinite Void. It's not a spiritual amnesia. The "you" simply wouldn't exist after merging with God(?). God(?) is one, is It not?? Everything outside of God(?) reality is geared to bring back the separated "awareness" back to its source. Every "thing" in this world, seen and unseen -- outside of God(?).

Peace.

Edited September 19, 2012 by braveone2u

[Blueogre2]

Well thanks everyone for the reply I don't really think most people understood my original question but there were some interesting responces