WhispersInTheAttic Posted November 8, 2013 #276 Share Posted November 8, 2013 This the first time I've ever heard about this but I saved the article to my book marks. It saddens me when these types of cases are unsolved. Those girls should have been looked after better. It's such a tragedy and I hope one day this case becomes solved. My heart goes out to those girls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuneBug1019 Posted December 28, 2013 #277 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I was a girl scout in oklahoma in 1977. I was absolutely terrified by this event, though I didn't know any of the girls and never camped at camp scott. It completely destroyed my sense of safety and rattled my innocence. I think it destroyed the innocence of the ENTIRE STATE. As I have read elsewhere, OK was culturally still in the 1950s at this time. This sort of thing NEVER happened here. I will go back and read this entire post, but I'm wondering if anyone knows the ages of the counselors at the camp that night? Were they older scouts, or parents? I think it's entirely possible that they didn't go out and investigate the girls' claims of seeing or encountering men because they were scared to death. Has there been anything more revealed about their thinking in interviews? I now have a daughter who is a Daisy and realize it's time for me to work through my issues with girl scout camp. This story haunts me deeply. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted December 28, 2013 Author #278 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I was a girl scout in oklahoma in 1977. I was absolutely terrified by this event, though I didn't know any of the girls and never camped at camp scott. It completely destroyed my sense of safety and rattled my innocence. I think it destroyed the innocence of the ENTIRE STATE. As I have read elsewhere, OK was culturally still in the 1950s at this time. This sort of thing NEVER happened here. I will go back and read this entire post, but I'm wondering if anyone knows the ages of the counselors at the camp that night? Were they older scouts, or parents? I think it's entirely possible that they didn't go out and investigate the girls' claims of seeing or encountering men because they were scared to death. Has there been anything more revealed about their thinking in interviews? I now have a daughter who is a Daisy and realize it's time for me to work through my issues with girl scout camp. This story haunts me deeply. Going strictly by memory of what I've read and seen over the years, I believe the majority of the counselors were in their early 20's (but I'm not 100% certain)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted January 1, 2014 #279 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I think it's entirely possible that they didn't go out and investigate the girls' claims of seeing or encountering men because they were scared to death. I'm not aware of claims of seeing or encountering men which were reported to any counselors. Also, I don't know of a reason to think the counselors wouldn't have responded appropriately/to the appropriate people if they had. There were various claims made later, but as I recall, none of them sounded credible to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted January 1, 2014 Author #280 Share Posted January 1, 2014 If I recall correctly, the only report of a man walking around, turned out to have been the boyfriend of one of the counselors... And I don't think it was reported by the girls... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted January 1, 2014 #281 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Hey, you remembered more than I did, Taun! I'd completely forgotten about that. They said they did tell a counselor who told them it was her boyfriend. It was never clear (to me, anyway) which counselor they spoke to because it was testimony at the pre-trial hearing- I'm pretty sure it was Wilhite's testimony- that Susan Emery's boyfriend visited the camp, but it was the week before. In an article from the civil trial, there was a Quapaw camper who said she saw "a man's feet in the bushes" near the latrine and that she ran back to her tent, but didn't tell a counselor because "she didn't think much of it." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandersdawn Posted February 4, 2014 #282 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I just learned about this case and have been reading about it for hours. I read through this read and decided to join because you guys are brilliant. Not having read the books and having very little in the way of real, undisputed evidence makes me wonder what really happened to these three precious girls. Was one really the target and the other two were just in the way? Or was it random? Someone peeking into one of the tents and leaving seems to point at this being more a random choice of victims. Perhaps the killer(s) chose tent 7 (or 8, whichever you want to call it) because there were only three girls... or maybe they noticed the one camper was awake when they peeked in. As for Hart, I really don't know what to believe so far. I would love to read the pre-trial transcript, does anyone know where I can find it? And I see Taunting was offering to loan the books out--is that still an option? I just can't afford to spend $40 lowest price on Amazon) for the out-of-print book. This case is so frustrating and I feel so bad for the families who have no closure. I'd love to walk around the area someday and see what the terrain is like. That should have been Taun, not Taunting. Darn Auto correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted February 4, 2014 Author #283 Share Posted February 4, 2014 In regards to your 2nd and third items, it seems more to me like a random selection, rather than prior choice of one of the girls - to do that the perp(s) would have to have been visible in the camp much earlier in the day - perhaps when the girls got off the buses from Tulsa... They (he/she) would have been very noticeable... BTW - welcome to UM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 5, 2014 #284 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I read through this read and decided to join because you guys are brilliant. Well, you appear very bright, and observant and perceptive, I might add. Welcome to the board! Was one really the target and the other two were just in the way? Or was it random? As I think about those questions, I realize how much I've forgotten about certain details. I remember it appeared to me there was taunting because of the bindings; if the younger two were immediately killed, then the tying doesn't make sense. It's my impression that the oldest girl was singled out at the time of the crime. As for Hart, I really don't know what to believe so far. I would love to read the pre-trial transcript, does anyone know where I can find it? The only trial transcript available to my knowledge is the pre-trial testimony of two of the counselors from that unit. It's at the following link, located on the right side of that main page. http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/ Edited February 5, 2014 by regi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careful_perspective Posted February 6, 2014 #285 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I spent a few hours reading through this and the only way I can describe how I felt after was...haunted. Absolutely haunted by this awful tale. I think we all can remember as children always having that primordial fear of the dark, of the unknown. I used to camp often as a child and would be terrified about something or someone snatching me up. To imagine that these girls, their nightmares came true, and such a horrific way. And as for the parents, to live with not knowing whoever it was hurt your child, that's awful. The one thing I kept thinking about however, was the testimony of the witnesses'. Many studies have been done to test the validity of witness testimony under stress, and how bad it can be. I remember watching a documentary about a group of people who were all on a nature hike. The people who were hosting the hike staged what looked like, an alien crash site in the middle of the woods and had the people walk right by the camp site. None of the people knew it was staged but afterwards were asked to discuss what they saw. The stories kept growing more and more elaborate as time went on. Anyway, my point is, it has been proven eyewitness testimony must be gathered in a very specific way, and even more with children. I wonder about how much of what happened that night may have been elaborated on, or imagined perhaps? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted February 6, 2014 Author #286 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I 'like' to think that it was over quickly for those poor children... To me the evidence supports that, at least for two of them... It would be interesting to subject recordings of the testimony to eval like you mentioned, but I'm not sure if any actual recordings of it exist (other than transcripts)... BTW - Welcome to UM! (rather interesting name ya got there kiddo)... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careful_perspective Posted February 6, 2014 #287 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Haha thank you for the welcome Taun!!! And yes the name is strange. I got it because Woodbooger is a name they call Sasquatch in certain areas of the South and I thought it was funny. Anyway, I doubt the transcripts exist too. Just like the evidence wasn't handled the way we do it now, the witness testimony wasn't handled the way we would do it now. They would have called special interviewers who specialize in children now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 6, 2014 #288 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think it depends on the situation, but I'd say interviewing requires skill and knowledge, no matter who's being interviewed. I don't think children testified in the criminal trial, but statements to police would be located in the police file. According to newspaper accounts, there were statements from children in the civil trial, although I don't know if those were statements from the witness stand or were in the form of depositions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryinrea Posted February 7, 2014 #289 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) In fact, I don't think any rapist that's targets women in an exmaple a man like GLH would move on too little girls all of a sudden. Those who rape for sex need a certain type, thus a little girl wouldn't turn him on like a OLDER WOMAN . In other words, it would be impossile for a young girl like the three girls too turn on a man that only raped older woman. They need a closer look at the Pedo's in the area. Edited February 7, 2014 by Ryinrea 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 8, 2014 #290 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Despite repeated media reports to the contrary and that there were sexual elements to the crime, I doubt there was rape. Lori Farmer's mother has expressed her belief that there could have been female involvement and I think that has to be because it was the ME's opinion that rape didn't occur. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted February 8, 2014 Author #291 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Meaning it was probably a "thrill Kill".... Which is as disturbing as any other explanation... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 8, 2014 #292 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Taking that further, it seems thrill kill type crimes are most often committed by young offenders. Now, the covering of that flashlight lens comes across to me as 'criminally sophisticated'... something an experienced burglar might/would have learned to do. Edited February 8, 2014 by regi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taun Posted February 9, 2014 Author #293 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Taking that further, it seems thrill kill type crimes are most often committed by young offenders. Now, the covering of that flashlight lens comes across to me as 'criminally sophisticated'... something an experienced burglar might/would have learned to do. Or a hunter... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 9, 2014 #294 Share Posted February 9, 2014 In fact, I don't think any rapist that's targets women in an exmaple a man like GLH would move on too little girls all of a sudden. Those who rape for sex need a certain type, thus a little girl wouldn't turn him on like a OLDER WOMAN . In other words, it would be impossile for a young girl like the three girls too turn on a man that only raped older woman. They need a closer look at the Pedo's in the area. exactly! pedos and rapists and serial killers always have a "type" but it can be a broad mix (such as any race 19-30 year olds) or specific ( blond haired , 5ft, 10 - 15 year olds) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuriousLittleOne Posted February 9, 2014 #295 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Do you remember CVS12, the newspaper photographer who took photographs of the crime scene? CVS12 wrote: It's hard to believe it's been thirty years since the Girl Scout murders. I was the "local photographer" who was called to Camp Scott that bright summer morning to take the crime scene photographs. Some of the bloody footprints in the tent were mine as I took pictures of the cots, the other footprints, the various items in the tent. You couldn't move about in the tent without stepping in blood. I took before-and-after pictures because with each step it got messier. I wore Hush Puppies that morning. I was called at home just after dawn by the Pryor police dispatcher. He said, "Get your cameras and go to Camp Scott, they have three bodies down.' theres more, thats just a snippit , but intrersting non the less. http://girlscoutmurd...=2#.Uvc1YPuaPB8 first time i heard of the naked effergy Events Leading Up To The Crime Strange events were taking place around Camp Scott leading up to the murders.An effigy in the form of a man was found hanging from a tree by its neck, with its genitals showing, and personal items were disappearing from tents. The most interesting event was the discovery of a note in April which read "we are on a mission to kill 3 girls in tent 1". The note was considered a prank and never given to police. http://www.girlscoutmurders.com/CRIMINAL_PROFILE.html Edited February 9, 2014 by CuriousLittleOne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryinrea Posted February 10, 2014 #296 Share Posted February 10, 2014 exactly! pedos and rapists and serial killers always have a "type" but it can be a broad mix (such as any race 19-30 year olds) or specific ( blond haired , 5ft, 10 - 15 year olds) These were a broad type thought one girl was black. Thought the interracial rapeist are rare they do happen mostly all around the same age like 5 year old girls or ten year old girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryinrea Posted February 10, 2014 #297 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Despite repeated media reports to the contrary and that there were sexual elements to the crime, I doubt there was rape. Lori Farmer's mother has expressed her belief that there could have been female involvement and I think that has to be because it was the ME's opinion that rape didn't occur. I was watching an old program on these murders and the ME reports their was no rape involved thought they found DNA somehow on one of the older girls, if I am not mistaken. And it makes me angry that the media thinks it's speaking for the victims when they put out false information like this on the cases. Kind of like Trayvon Martian they butchered the boys character just because they wanted to create a constvery they do a disservice to the victims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 16, 2014 #298 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I was watching an old program on these murders and the ME reports their was no rape involved thought they found DNA somehow on one of the older girls, if I am not mistaken. We've discussed this, so it's here somewhere in these pages, but as I recall, the ME stated that there was no semen collected from any of the bodies, yet a lab person later testified that she found semen on a slide with a specimen collected from the youngest victim, Lori Farmer. (In fact, I believe Farmer was the youngest girl scout at the camp.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmike1 Posted February 16, 2014 #299 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Pedos, rapists, and serial killers are not always one in the same. Obviously Pedos like kids, and that rarely if ever changes. They will always like kids. Now being a Pedo doesn't make one a murderer. A sick and disgusting b******, yes, murderer, well not really. Are some Pedos murderers? Yes they are, but not all. Same with rapists. Not all rapists are murderers and not all murderers are rapists. Serial killers do not always have a type. Some do and some don't. Some don't even care if its male or female. There is no set in stone with a serial killer. I also find it very hard to believe that someone who has never killed before picked three small girls in a camp surrounded by other people for their first kill. A serial killer's first kill is usually not planned, and happens spur of the moment, or is not planned well. Just like with anything else they get better at it with time and experience. This was obviously planned. I don't know who killed those little girls, but I don't think it was someone with no killing experience. It still is not even clear if the girls were sexually assaulted or not. One sentence leads to yes, while another says no. that would be very telling. Of course a lot of serial killings are sexually motivated. This doesn't mean that the killer has to have sex with the victim. He/She gets her pleasure many times from the act itself. That is the sexual gratification, the act. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regi Posted February 16, 2014 #300 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) I've never figured out the purpose of carrying the bodies out of the tent. That circumstance has always weighted heavy on my mind because I think surely the answer reveals something about the perp. Edit: msmike, I wouldn't necessarily think that the perp had killed before, but I would think he had a violent past. Edited February 16, 2014 by regi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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