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Karlis

Iran official: 'Big war' means Mahdi's coming

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by Reza Kahlili -- served in CIA Directorate of Operations, as a spy in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, counterterrorism expert; currently serves on the Task Force on National and Homeland Security, an advisory board authorized by Congress. He is the author of the award winning book "A Time to Betray" and regularly appears in national and international media as an expert on Iran and counterterrorism in the Middle East.

For the first time, Iran’s highest-ranking military official has tied the reappearance of the last Islamic messiah to the regime being prepared to go to a war based on ideology.

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I hope the new Messiah does turn up and is absolutely p***ed off at the childishness and abuse of Allah's name and message by the Iranians and other world Muslims.

kind of like how I hope Jesus when/if he returns he's totally and utterly appaled at what's done in his name.

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I've always worried about religions that have a set belief in the end of the world, because I always feel that some people will try and force these things into happening by going to war in the hopes that their religion's end time prophecies will happen.

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Apart from extremist Iranians, there are extremist Christians who who feel it is their duty to bring forward "the end days". It's a no-win situation.

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Apart from extremist Iranians, there are extremist Christians who who feel it is their duty to bring forward "the end days". It's a no-win situation.

I realize these are out there but I have never met one, to my knowledge. I personally consider it a blasphemy for man to think he can "force" God's hand on anything. The numbers and kinds of signs active today cannot easily be dismissed except by those who would never believe anyway. JMO

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The issue isnt only those who try to force these things to happen. The issue is also those who do nothing to prevent these things from happening because they believe its ordained to happen.

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The mind is a subtle pattern matching tool which finds the "End Time" signs in all times and almost all events. Its an artifact of what the brain is good at and bares absolutely no relationship to reality. The danger is that it subtly shifts people behaviour in favour with their desired "End Times" outcomes. Hence we get Bush talking about feeling the hand of God guiding his actions and the Mullahs of Iran saying if war comes it is not the worst outcome.

Self forfilling prophecy is the most dangerous challenge we face at this time of transition from an Industrial economy to a post industrial economy. If you look at the last time there was such a massive belief in End times prophecies it coincided with the rise of the industrial revolution - the end times never materialized - but the world changed profoundly. Humans are intrinsically conservative and so become deeply troubled when large scale changes undermine the certainties they have lived by and they fall pray to apocalyptic thinking.

These are dangerous individuals with dangerous ideas.

Br Cornelius

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The issue isnt only those who try to force these things to happen. The issue is also those who do nothing to prevent these things from happening because they believe its ordained to happen.

Good point, Stellar. So what do you suggest?

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The mind is a subtle pattern matching tool which finds the "End Time" signs in all times and almost all events. Its an artifact of what the brain is good at and bares absolutely no relationship to reality. The danger is that it subtly shifts people behaviour in favour with their desired "End Times" outcomes. Hence we get Bush talking about feeling the hand of God guiding his actions and the Mullahs of Iran saying if war comes it is not the worst outcome.

Self forfilling prophecy is the most dangerous challenge we face at this time of transition from an Industrial economy to a post industrial economy. If you look at the last time there was such a massive belief in End times prophecies it coincided with the rise of the industrial revolution - the end times never materialized - but the world changed profoundly. Humans are intrinsically conservative and so become deeply troubled when large scale changes undermine the certainties they have lived by and they fall pray to apocalyptic thinking.

These are dangerous individuals with dangerous ideas.

Br Cornelius

I have NO idea when the "last days" will begin. I think no one does. But to believe that the current global situation has not been described in ancient texts is unsupportable. Any single "sign" can be relegated to chance but when multiple signs are all occurring and increasing simultaneously it's nothing short of denial by trusting one's intellect over the proof of the senses. Whatever gets you through I guess. Pointless to argue it because a person who has decided that they know best usually cannot be swayed even when they are proven to be in error. Yep...denial is a good choice for peaceful sleeping.

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I have NO idea when the "last days" will begin. I think no one does. But to believe that the current global situation has not been described in ancient texts is unsupportable. Any single "sign" can be relegated to chance but when multiple signs are all occurring and increasing simultaneously it's nothing short of denial by trusting one's intellect over the proof of the senses. Whatever gets you through I guess. Pointless to argue it because a person who has decided that they know best usually cannot be swayed even when they are proven to be in error. Yep...denial is a good choice for peaceful sleeping.

The same was said only a few centuries after Christs time, at the time of the first millenium, and at any other time you could care to mention. I cannot see any such pattern in the world - all I can see is a world changing due to changing circumstances. There is a scientific term called "confirmation bias" which states that the brain rigorously judges events based upon its pre-programmed preconceptions. The Bible and Koran are perfect primers to lead believers by the nose to believe that they are always living in the "End Time", it is both the carrot and the stick which keeps their belief in the central dogmas of the faith immanent. It is a system for behavioural control and it works extremely well, but ultimately it is all fantasy.

Br Cornelius

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Good point, Stellar. So what do you suggest?

I don't think there's much that can be done, really. Just got to make sure everyone elects the right people and understands how their beliefs or lack of beliefs may cause them to act towards different situations. This isnt possible in all areas of the world unfortunately.

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How stupid humans are. How many people have died and are still dying over religion? Religion is a cancer of the planet.

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I hope the new Messiah does turn up and is absolutely p***ed off at the childishness and abuse of Allah's name and message by the Iranians and other world Muslims.

kind of like how I hope Jesus when/if he returns he's totally and utterly appaled at what's done in his name.

According to the Koran its the Syrian leader

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Please explain where in the Koran it clearly identifies Assad. I find that a classic example of what I have been talking about - pattern recognition of the most desperate kind.

Tragic.

Br Cornelius

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The same was said only a few centuries after Christs time, at the time of the first millenium, and at any other time you could care to mention. I cannot see any such pattern in the world - all I can see is a world changing due to changing circumstances. There is a scientific term called "confirmation bias" which states that the brain rigorously judges events based upon its pre-programmed preconceptions. The Bible and Koran are perfect primers to lead believers by the nose to believe that they are always living in the "End Time", it is both the carrot and the stick which keeps their belief in the central dogmas of the faith immanent. It is a system for behavioural control and it works extremely well, but ultimately it is all fantasy.

Br Cornelius

Those who disbelieve can be guilty of the same, can they not?

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Please explain where in the Koran it clearly identifies Assad. I find that a classic example of what I have been talking about - pattern recognition of the most desperate kind.

Tragic.

Br Cornelius

The Quran doesnt say Assad it only says the leader of Syria.

Edited by Mr Right Wing

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Those who disbelieve can be guilty of the same, can they not?

They can of course - but what you will never be able to provide is clear unambigious statements of actual events taking place at this time.

The secret of the fortune teller is to be just vague enough to allow for a wide range of interpretations and then leaving it to the believer to embellish the details. The Bible is using essentially exactly the same deceptive techniques.

Give me a clear statement that a flying machine would strike a tower within a decade either side of the twin towers attack - and I would accept that as a believable prophecy. Pulling random tyrants out of a hat to attempt a match to the anti-christ has been attempted since the dawn of Christianity - Napoleon was always a favourite candidate, closely followed by Hitler. The song remains the same - but the faces keep on changing.

Br Cornelius

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The Quran doesnt say Assad it only says the leader of Syria.

Again, please show me the quote or at least your source.

As far as I was aware Syria wasn't even a country in the Koranic times.

Br Cornelius

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They can of course - but what you will never be able to provide is clear unambigious statements of actual events taking place at this time.

The secret of the fortune teller is to be just vague enough to allow for a wide range of interpretations and then leaving it to the believer to embellish the details. The Bible is using essentially exactly the same deceptive techniques.

Give me a clear statement that a flying machine would strike a tower within a decade either side of the twin towers attack - and I would accept that as a believable prophecy. Pulling random tyrants out of a hat to attempt a match to the anti-christ has been attempted since the dawn of Christianity - Napoleon was always a favourite candidate, closely followed by Hitler. The song remains the same - but the faces keep on changing.

Br Cornelius

As I said in an earlier post, Brutha, disbelievers will reject any evidence. If that were not the case then an army being raised to actually attack Christ at His second coming would be impossible. Convincing such people isn't a priority of mine. I don't rejoice in their fate but I don't weep over much for them either. We all have a choice. Have a nice day :)

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Ayatollahs of the world unite!

Why is it that these Torah, Bible, Koranthumpers all spew the same boolkrappy?

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Ayatollahs of the world unite!

Why is it that these Torah, Bible, Koranthumpers all spew the same boolkrappy?

Every myth needs a nice tidy end. its the nature of story telling.

Br Cornelius

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Apart from extremist Iranians, there are extremist Christians who who feel it is their duty to bring forward "the end days". It's a no-win situation.

I realize these are out there but I have never met one, to my knowledge. I personally consider it a blasphemy for man to think he can "force" God's hand on anything. The numbers and kinds of signs active today cannot easily be dismissed except by those who would never believe anyway. JMO

Here was me thinking you were one...

Edited by ExpandMyMind

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The issue isnt only those who try to force these things to happen. The issue is also those who do nothing to prevent these things from happening because they believe its ordained to happen.

The second bit would better describe "and then", which are just as dangerous in their own way.

Br Cornelius

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As I said in an earlier post, Brutha, disbelievers will reject any evidence. If that were not the case then an army being raised to actually attack Christ at His second coming would be impossible. Convincing such people isn't a priority of mine. I don't rejoice in their fate but I don't weep over much for them either. We all have a choice. Have a nice day :)

I think BR was asking for unambiguous evidence, not a misdirection. I try my best to keep an open mind, but it's hard to settle into a belief when there are so many interpretations of one book .

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I’m envisioning a South Park cartoon where Issa appears and the Mahdi appears and they query each other “what are you doing here?!” I’m here for my people! No, you can’t because I’m here for my people! You lie! Apostate! … I can see it bouncing back and forth then a little pushing leading to a brawl. And then Kenny gets killed. But actually, what if Jesus and the 12th Imam are one in the same? How will that affect the final battle?

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