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Big Bad Voodoo

9 Big Myths We're Being Peddled

108 posts in this topic

Yes, killing people is wrong, but so is subverting others rights because you believe them to be wrong. In many countries, it's survival they have to worry about, here in the US, we do too but to a lesser extreme. When you have 'let's teach stories in science class', 'stop people of different sexual orientations from marrying', 'take away a woman's right to do what she want's with her body', then you're going a bit too far.

The country we live in allows a diversity of opinion and belief. There are communities where those "stories in science class" and the other things you've mentioned are not considered inappropriate. While their views may well seem offensive to those of other communities, they still have a right to their own world view. I guess I don't understand why those who believe as you do have a better case for acceptance of their ideas than the other group I mentioned. I also do not see widespread compulsion in any area of our country - just a fear that it might happen.

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The country we live in allows a diversity of opinion and belief. There are communities where those "stories in science class" and the other things you've mentioned are not considered inappropriate. While their views may well seem offensive to those of other communities, they still have a right to their own world view. I guess I don't understand why those who believe as you do have a better case for acceptance of their ideas than the other group I mentioned. I also do not see widespread compulsion in any area of our country - just a fear that it might happen.

I won't turn this into another creationist-evolutionist argument thread, but these beliefs, these 'world views', have no grounding in science.

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I won't turn this into another creationist-evolutionist argument thread, but these beliefs, these 'world views', have no grounding in science.

They should be taught where they are relevant in RE class - not in Biology where they are a denial of the evidence.

Br Cornelius

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I do take such scrutiny, often. I have even shared that I would be just as devout a Muslim as I am a Christian if I had been born in an Islamic country. At least until I heard the gospel message. The fact you are bored of the discussion doesn't make it go away. One clue as to which argument might make more sense to a civilized person is that when you criticize Christianity there is deafening silence. Try it with Islam - just avoid doing it in an Islamic country if you want to continue breathing. Pretty stark difference there....

Actually there are blasphemy laws in Christian countries as well. A lot of people take their religion for what it is - a personal relationship with their deities. Some people are loud mouth jerkwads. All you need is somebody to stir them up and extremist clerics love to do that. Of course they're never the ones fighting the jihad or suicide bombing civilian targets - leave that to the angry and impressionable youth.

From a western point of view Iranians have a lot to be angry about - theocracy, corruption, and now the looming threat of war with Israel. Do you think the average Israeli and Iranian hate each other? If so, do you think it is due to legitimate reasons or the scapegoating undertaken by their leaders?

People in civilized societies really don't have anything to hate, but they're still made to be hateful towards somebody because it distracts them from the abuses of the rulers.

I have a question for all posters on both sides of the argument. Is your ire over this issue worth it?

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Actually there are blasphemy laws in Christian countries as well. A lot of people take their religion for what it is - a personal relationship with their deities. Some people are loud mouth jerkwads. All you need is somebody to stir them up and extremist clerics love to do that. Of course they're never the ones fighting the jihad or suicide bombing civilian targets - leave that to the angry and impressionable youth.

From a western point of view Iranians have a lot to be angry about - theocracy, corruption, and now the looming threat of war with Israel. Do you think the average Israeli and Iranian hate each other? If so, do you think it is due to legitimate reasons or the scapegoating undertaken by their leaders?

People in civilized societies really don't have anything to hate, but they're still made to be hateful towards somebody because it distracts them from the abuses of the rulers.

I have a question for all posters on both sides of the argument. Is your ire over this issue worth it?

I'm not sure of the question? Do you mean is an attack on Iran's sites to delay a nuclear device worth the death and destruction it will certainly cause? My answer would be yes. But that doesn't mean I will enjoy the idea of the suffering or death of innocents. It means that when someone shows an unmistakable desire to oppress me and my rights to live then I have a right to self defense. You obviously do not feel that way because you literally live a half world away and don't have a target on your back. There are some here who actually argue that a country, even one the size of New Jersey, has to wait and absorb a nuclear strike before they can justly engage in self defense.

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Dude? Decaf? September 11... hello? USS Cole, Several US embassies, what ARE you on about?

La Patria? King David Hotel? Deir Yassin? el-Bureij? Khan Yunis? Rafah? Qibya? The Lavon Affair? USS Liberty? Operation Litani? Sabra and Shatilla? Peace For Galilee? Israel simply rarely bites the hand that feeds them. Anyways, I dont think you want to make a comprehensive list of massacres and terrorism Israel has committed? There is 33 such massacres before and during the 1948 war.

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La Patria? King David Hotel? Deir Yassin? el-Bureij? Khan Yunis? Rafah? Qibya? The Lavon Affair? USS Liberty? Operation Litani? Sabra and Shatilla? Peace For Galilee? Israel simply rarely bites the hand that feeds them. Anyways, I dont think you want to make a comprehensive list of massacres and terrorism Israel has committed? There is 33 such massacres before and during the 1948 war.

I'll give you every one of them... but why don't you mention those they were in response to? At that time the Arabs were freaking out over the influx of Jews from Europe and were harassing an regularly killing Jews as well. But if you take Coffey's point as valid that Zionists are causing today as much or more trouble death and bloodshed around the world as Islamic terrorists then I say you are badly mistaken and your bias is in glaring view.

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but why don't you mention those they were in response to?

But both sides seem to claim that their actions are in response to something...

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IMO Zionist extremist beget Islamic extremists.

It's a terrible case of push-me-pull you or perhaps a better analogy would be a visious circle..

I don't think it's a matter of who started it... Let's face it - in this debate there are no "Good guys". Palestinians, Israelis, Middle eastern groups of all stripes - they have all done bad stuff. And in their eyes it is always retaliation for the bad stuff some other group did. It's gotten to the point where it is so messy with so many recriminations among all parties that the only way to really settle it would be to sincerely decide to start over. To just say "Everything in the past is in the past and from this second we are starting over."

But that isn't going to happen and we all know it. These hard feelings are so ingrained at this point that is impossible. Iran is not going to sing Kumbaya with Israel anytime soon and Israel is not going to start treating Palestinians nicely and Palestinians are not going to let their feelings go. To be honest, I have to wonder what will achieve any sort of peace in that region of the world. Obviously the US invading doesn't do it and obviously the US trying to be friendly won't do it and obviously the US can't just ignore the area because it's kinda a large part of the map and has some US interests in it.

At the same time, I don't think that even the US ignoring the middle east completely would do much to settle things. I do think that our support of Israel tends to destabilize things there but it would be unstable either way. Everybody might have to settle for an uneasy peace that could break at any time - that may be the best that everybody can expect.

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I'll give you every one of them... but why don't you mention those they were in response to? At that time the Arabs were freaking out over the influx of Jews from Europe and were harassing an regularly killing Jews as well. But if you take Coffey's point as valid that Zionists are causing today as much or more trouble death and bloodshed around the world as Islamic terrorists then I say you are badly mistaken and your bias is in glaring view.

1880s: Zionists begin settling in Palestine. Years earlier, wealthy Arabs had taken advantage of the Ottoman Land Code to register in their names land that didn’t really belong to them. The Zionists would typically purchase the “rights” to the land from these absentee landlords, then kick out the land’s Palestinian inhabitants, leaving them homeless and jobless.

1928: The Wailing Wall incident. The Palestinian Arabs, justly upset with being kicked off their land by the settlers, had by this point grown suspicious of the settlers (as had Palestine’s indigenous Jewish population). A disagreement over rights to the Wailing Wall erupted into a riot, with hundreds killed on both sides.

1936-1939: Palestinians go on a General Strike as a demonstration for self-determination. The strike turns into a revolt. The Zionists, aided by the British, respond with incredible force. 329 Jews are killed; 3,293 Arabs are killed.

1938: Irgun terrorists kill 76 Arabs by setting off bombs in markets and other public places. When an Irgun member is arrested by the British, the Irgun killed another 52 Arabs.

1939: The British decide to limit Jewish immigration. The Irgun responds, killing 27 Arabs.

Throughout the 1930s, Zionists killed 338 Brits, assassinate 40 Jews, invent international hijacking via a Syrian airliner, and manage to invent the letter bomb.

1940s: Zionists urge Western governments not to accept Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. Chaim Weitzman’s cohort Greenbaum says, “One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe.”

1944: Stern Gang kills British minister of state Lord Moyne (who had favored a Palestinian state) in Cairo.

1947: Zionists kill international mediator Count Bernadotte, who’d saved thousands of Jew from the camps during World War II.

1947-1949: Zionists commence a campaign of ethnic cleansing, committing scores of massacres in Palestinian villages including Deir Yassin and use a campaign of terror and massacres to drive 700,000+ from their homes.

1948: Zionists declare independence for the state of Israel, despite the fact that the General Assembly resolution proposing partition was not legally binding. Evidence indicates that they’d planned to annex the area allocated in the partition plan for the “Jewish state", and divide up the rest of Palestine between themselves and Jordan. In the ensuing conflict, thousands died on both sides.

1948 – 1964: Palestinians in Israeli territory live under military rule. They aren’t legally permitted to vote or join labor unions. During this time (and still today), Palestinians are subject to humiliation, collective punishment, torture, and seizure of land and resources. Economic conditions and standards of living for those in the Occupied Territories are abysmal.

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1880s: Zionists begin settling in Palestine. Years earlier, wealthy Arabs had taken advantage of the Ottoman Land Code to register in their names land that didn’t really belong to them. The Zionists would typically purchase the “rights” to the land from these absentee landlords, then kick out the land’s Palestinian inhabitants, leaving them homeless and jobless.

1928: The Wailing Wall incident. The Palestinian Arabs, justly upset with being kicked off their land by the settlers, had by this point grown suspicious of the settlers (as had Palestine’s indigenous Jewish population). A disagreement over rights to the Wailing Wall erupted into a riot, with hundreds killed on both sides.

1936-1939: Palestinians go on a General Strike as a demonstration for self-determination. The strike turns into a revolt. The Zionists, aided by the British, respond with incredible force. 329 Jews are killed; 3,293 Arabs are killed.

1938: Irgun terrorists kill 76 Arabs by setting off bombs in markets and other public places. When an Irgun member is arrested by the British, the Irgun killed another 52 Arabs.

1939: The British decide to limit Jewish immigration. The Irgun responds, killing 27 Arabs.

Throughout the 1930s, Zionists killed 338 Brits, assassinate 40 Jews, invent international hijacking via a Syrian airliner, and manage to invent the letter bomb.

1940s: Zionists urge Western governments not to accept Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. Chaim Weitzman’s cohort Greenbaum says, “One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe.”

1944: Stern Gang kills British minister of state Lord Moyne (who had favored a Palestinian state) in Cairo.

1947: Zionists kill international mediator Count Bernadotte, who’d saved thousands of Jew from the camps during World War II.

1947-1949: Zionists commence a campaign of ethnic cleansing, committing scores of massacres in Palestinian villages including Deir Yassin and use a campaign of terror and massacres to drive 700,000+ from their homes.

1948: Zionists declare independence for the state of Israel, despite the fact that the General Assembly resolution proposing partition was not legally binding. Evidence indicates that they’d planned to annex the area allocated in the partition plan for the “Jewish state", and divide up the rest of Palestine between themselves and Jordan. In the ensuing conflict, thousands died on both sides.

1948 – 1964: Palestinians in Israeli territory live under military rule. They aren’t legally permitted to vote or join labor unions. During this time (and still today), Palestinians are subject to humiliation, collective punishment, torture, and seizure of land and resources. Economic conditions and standards of living for those in the Occupied Territories are abysmal.

Yeah....just awful....

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This all remind so much of the myths surrounding the WMD issues in Iraq in the lead up to illegally invade and occupy that country. I think they are using the very same tactics. I suggest you watch and see how the Obama White House will imply the very same things that Bush did. Why did Obama reverse on Israel anyway? He was doing such a good job of standing up to Israel’s weasel government.

Now I am reminding you, this has nothing whatsoever to do with religion, my sentiments. This has to do with a government that is atrociously condescending and witchy about everything. This has nothing to do with how worship some god. This has to do with a govenment that has no desire whatsoever to get along with their neighbors. In fact, the government of Israel doesn't even follow the Ten Commandments.

Always remember that if generals fear that they may be out of a job, they will indeed drum up business, … at our expense.

Edited by regeneratia

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Dude? Decaf? September 11... hello? USS Cole, Several US embassies, what ARE you on about?

Cheney loves you.

Edited by regeneratia

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Which casualties need never have happened had the crazy bas tids hadn't decided to kill people at their desks just trying to work for a living. Cheer for your Muslim buds to someone who cares. As far as I'm concerned they called down the lightning on themselves.

Which casualities never would have happened if the military in this country was doing it's job. They sure let us down on 911, in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And they will indeed let us down in Iran. The DOD is a total and absolute FAILURE!!

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Frankly the Christian/Muslim discourse sounds like a broken record. We are the religion of peace, you are the religion of war etcetera.

Take the same level of scrutiny to your own religion that you do to others for once. Also consider the fact that if you were born in the opposite part of the world you probably would be an adherrent and apologist for their religion.

It is high time to remove reliogion from the issue. Religion doesn't matter much anymore. This is an issue of states, not god-awful churches.

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That's not being a devout Muslim, you just think you'd be swayed by the Gospel.

Christians now wage their wars through political fronts, trying to reign people into their beliefs with their own twisted way of laying out laws that everyone should follow. I see it here in the US all the bloody time, especially here in Texas and the neighboring state Louisiana.

They also bomb clinics and kill Drs and maime workers. Oh yeah, Christianity is NOT tame. It is criminal.

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They also bomb clinics and kill Drs and maime workers. Oh yeah, Christianity is NOT tame. It is criminal.

True, but it's like the dog that bites your hand off as opposed to the dog that mauls your face. Either way, I'm not petting either.

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True, but it's like the dog that bites your hand off as opposed to the dog that mauls your face. Either way, I'm not petting either.

The three Ambrham religions can go hang as far as I am concerned. I don't like any of them.

I just cannot help but see how much this all is like how the lead up to invade Iraq was. There is no difference here. Soon I will expect some kind of statement about how Iran poses an "imminent threat" and some condi-like person will talk about mushroom clouds, just to scare the scat out of you.

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The three Ambrham religions can go hang as far as I am concerned. I don't like any of them.

I just cannot help but see how much this all is like how the lead up to invade Iraq was. There is no difference here. Soon I will expect some kind of statement about how Iran poses an "imminent threat" and some condi-like person will talk about mushroom clouds, just to scare the scat out of you.

World of politics and religion, it's all posturing and making the other guy look worse then you, then scaring your people into following you. This is why I don't vote.

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I'm merely demonstrating that much of the tales of woe from Gaza is just propaganda. And if a consistent period of time elapsed where rocket fire ceased and the Hamas became a little bit less confrontational, real inroads for the betterment of the conditions might come about. This mall proves that the situation there isn't nearly as desparate as some here make it appear.

You came up with this just over one video taken in one new mall in one of the Gaza Strip's more expensive neighborhoods, Kimmel.

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You came up with this just over one video taken in one new mall in one of the Gaza Strip's more expensive neighborhoods, Kimmel.

I'm not even saying it is universally representative. But if there are enough people there to support such a venture then it does kind of put a wee hole in your poverty, starvation and near death population boat, no?

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The scariest thing about that thread was the advert to loose 20 pounds, the before photo scared the hell out of me. lol :yes:

I got an ad about healthy vs unhealthy bathroom posture.... hurrrr

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Thing is that war against Iran never will happened. Its just for making Oil price going higher.

Whole Arab spring is Pentagon plan.

Proof of that is Syria. MI5,CIA and Sarkozy trained rebels and support them.

Only no one in Oil/Financal oligarchy didnt except that China and Russia will not allow new Lybia. Plus Iran sent their army just in case because if Syria fall then Iran will fall most likely.

Anyway I think its all about pumping price of oil.

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I'm not even saying it is universally representative. But if there are enough people there to support such a venture then it does kind of put a wee hole in your poverty, starvation and near death population boat, no?

Not the least bit, the Palestinians are still suffering a water and health crisis and chronic electricity shortages amongst many other difficulties.

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Not the least bit, the Palestinians are still suffering a water and health crisis and chronic electricity shortages amongst many other difficulties.

Perhaps they should have chosen a "government" that had more of a purpose than"death to Israel" :w00t:

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