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Big Bad Voodoo

9 Big Myths We're Being Peddled

108 posts in this topic

Get a clue, never rely on Hollywood for historic accuracy or authenticity. It has a long very lousy record.

I’m the one with the clue (obviously) but it seems that I can’t even give it away. That’s what I was implying. But also, it is usually based on fact. You need to be able to discern fact from fiction. Which you don’t seem to want to do because you get confused.

I have never read the Leon Uris book and dont care to, because it belongs in the Historical Fiction bookshelves.

Yes, historical fiction, not fantasy. I.e. a love story wrapped in the actual events of the time. He had spent years researching and interviewing people on the events. He knew what he was talking about.

Exodus the movie is typical movie propagandist piece made by none other than Jewrywood. Get a clue and learn some real history.

Sigh! Why do you think I told you the screen play was done by Dalton Trumbo? He was one of the Hollywood 10. He was an admitted Communist. His treatment of the story had a Communist spin to it. It’s interesting to note that in the day, the Jew was the underdog and now today, the Palestinian holds the Communist eye. But my point was that what Ruth Dayan was saying sounded like it came directly from Leon Uris. Either she was pulling from the book or she was one of the sources. Listening to the way she spoke sounded like she was a Communist. I would live to read his novel and compare it to the movie. I’m sure you’ll find differences. But the main things probably are constant.

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I'm the one with the clue (obviously) but it seems that I can't even give it away. That's what I was implying. But also, it is usually based on fact. You need to be able to discern fact from fiction. Which you don't seem to want to do because you get confused.

Yes, historical fiction, not fantasy. I.e. a love story wrapped in the actual events of the time. He had spent years researching and interviewing people on the events. He knew what he was talking about.

Sigh! Why do you think I told you the screen play was done by Dalton Trumbo? He was one of the Hollywood 10. He was an admitted Communist. His treatment of the story had a Communist spin to it. It's interesting to note that in the day, the Jew was the underdog and now today, the Palestinian holds the Communist eye. But my point was that what Ruth Dayan was saying sounded like it came directly from Leon Uris. Either she was pulling from the book or she was one of the sources. Listening to the way she spoke sounded like she was a Communist. I would live to read his novel and compare it to the movie. I'm sure you'll find differences. But the main things probably are constant.

Well, I have been doing research on the novel, its heaviest criticisms revolved around strong bias, historical distortions, and heavily contrived racial stereotypes.

Please do read it, RavenHawk. Share with us how accurate is its history, does it have racial stereotypes are the Jews and Arabs deeply contrasted and how strong is the bias?

Oooh, lets see here.... whoops... lets introduce ourselves to the characters provided by wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_%28novel%29#Main_characters

Come on, you're the one that wants to read this melodramatic propagandist SOAP OPERA of the Middle East crisis? Go on man. Give us a review afterwards.

Middle East history according to RavenHawk... er... his sources, Leon Uris.

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Anyone who advocates ethnic cleansing is a fool deserving to be ridiculed.

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The Jews only bought and owned 7% of Palestine. The 1947 Partition Plan gave the Jews an additions 48% of Palestine they didnt buy or own.

It was probably determined that they would have bought this land anyway. The rightful owners wanted to drop these properties like a hot rock. They were probably tired with dealing with the Palestinian too.

Hey wait a minute, the Jews possessed land deeds to 7% of Palestine, and they were the immigrants.

And your point? No Arab power stepped forward to help the Palestinian buy up land or secure deeds. That's all they needed to do. That would have been the easiest thing to do. So you have to ask the question, why wasn't this done?

The Arab Palestinians fully agree with you 100% in that the Partition Plan was a joke HOWEVER the Zionist disagreed with you. Hmmm... isnt that interesting.

Hmmm? Not at all. The Jew was willing to coexist. They were willing to accept any plan – to compromise.

Most of your post is spewing out alot myths without a clue about the border aggravations Israel pulled against its neighboring Arab countries throughout the 50s and 60s IN ORDER to justify further aggression and war.

And what do you call the Arab aggravations against the Jew in the first half of the century?

The Mufti stated during his stay in Nazi Germany, "The Germans know how to get rid of the Jews . .They have definitely solved the Jewish problem." The Mufti ordered to fight and kill the Jew. Nasser said that he would kick the Jew back into the sea. To me, it sounds that the Jew learned the lesson and beat the Arab at their own game and now the Arab cry foul.

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Well, I have been doing research on the novel, its heaviest criticisms revolved around strong bias, historical distortions, and heavily contrived racial stereotypes.

You’ll find heavy criticism in just about everything. That doesn’t change the work that went into the research in this novel. You’ll find that stereotypes are not necessarily bad. It presented the good Arab and the bad Arab. For the story, that’s all we needed to know. The contrast may be simplistic but it is accurate.

Please do read it, RavenHawk. Share with us how accurate is its history, does it have racial stereotypes are the Jews and Arabs deeply contrasted and how strong is the bias?

One of these days I will. But I’m not going to do it to placate you. Knowing that a screenplay leaves out a lot of the story and knowing that Dalton Trumbo wrote the screenplay, I can guess or extrapolate back that it (the novel) is probably accurate. It goes into the inner struggle of groups like the Irgun and Haganah. The struggle with the British and the Mufti. The post war detention camps and the people determined to die to find a home. What some went thought in the Nazi camps. Etc., etc. It’s a level of accuracy needed to tell the story. Nothing more.

One could say that “The Right Stuff” has historical distortions and heavily contrived stereotypes but I wouldn’t hesitate to present it in a history class to introduce the student to the space program.

Oooh, lets see here.... whoops... lets introduce ourselves to the characters provided by wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia....Main_characters

Do you understand anything? You have the historical backdrop and then you fill it with a love story or a story about the hero, etc. The characters aren’t meant to be factually historical even though some will be based on real people, such as Ari may be based on Moshe Dayan. This is why in my original post I believe that Uris had probably incorporated Ruth’s thoughts on certain things, especially some things with life in the kibbutz. How much more accurate can you be than to incorporate the thoughts of those that were actually there?

Come on, you're the one that wants to read this melodramatic propagandist SOAP OPERA of the Middle East crisis? Go on man. Give us a review afterwards.

I would love to read this story and compare it to the screenplay and the film. But it would probably be better if you do it. I already know what to expect. So I would be biased as you would probably put it. You could more easily point out what you consider inaccurate.

Middle East history according to RavenHawk... er... his sources, Leon Uris.

Uris is but one source. I guess you expect only to get your information from one source, whatever that may be. I try to have a broad collection of points of view. When you have such a broad base, you can usually discern what actually happened.

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You’ll find heavy criticism in just about everything. That doesn’t change the work that went into the research in this novel. You’ll find that stereotypes are not necessarily bad. It presented the good Arab and the bad Arab. For the story, that’s all we needed to know. The contrast may be simplistic but it is accurate.

One of these days I will. But I’m not going to do it to placate you. Knowing that a screenplay leaves out a lot of the story and knowing that Dalton Trumbo wrote the screenplay, I can guess or extrapolate back that it (the novel) is probably accurate. It goes into the inner struggle of groups like the Irgun and Haganah. The struggle with the British and the Mufti. The post war detention camps and the people determined to die to find a home. What some went thought in the Nazi camps. Etc., etc. It’s a level of accuracy needed to tell the story. Nothing more.

One could say that “The Right Stuff” has historical distortions and heavily contrived stereotypes but I wouldn’t hesitate to present it in a history class to introduce the student to the space program.

Do you understand anything? You have the historical backdrop and then you fill it with a love story or a story about the hero, etc. The characters aren’t meant to be factually historical even though some will be based on real people, such as Ari may be based on Moshe Dayan. This is why in my original post I believe that Uris had probably incorporated Ruth’s thoughts on certain things, especially some things with life in the kibbutz. How much more accurate can you be than to incorporate the thoughts of those that were actually there?

I would love to read this story and compare it to the screenplay and the film. But it would probably be better if you do it. I already know what to expect. So I would be biased as you would probably put it. You could more easily point out what you consider inaccurate.

Uris is but one source. I guess you expect only to get your information from one source, whatever that may be. I try to have a broad collection of points of view. When you have such a broad base, you can usually discern what actually happened.

I would never read historical fiction in the place of real history written by a real historian. And no, all the Arab characters in the book were all represented popular stereotypes. Simplistic ... yes! Accurate... NO!

By fact, none of the main characters are ... Arab? No. Which means the reader is only going to read a biased one view propagandist fictional rubbish. Why would I want to read Exodus when there are no major Arab characters? And what Arab characters there are, they are popular western stereotypes.

Now one historical fiction writer I would consider reading and know I read some great history in fictional trappings is Nigel Tranter. I do want to read this author's trilogy on Robert The Bruce and other works.

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I would never read historical fiction in the place of real history written by a real historian.

Really? Seems to me and others that it was the opposite.

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So your point is that Israel is an illegitimate State, or as the Arabs like to say - Zionist Entity. Fine. You and they are absolutely within your rights to FEEL about the situation any way you want... But about 6 million Jewish human beings live on the land now, despite multiple attempts to strangle the nascent State in the crib. They have the best military in the region - one of the best in the world. They have nuclear weapons. And most importantly they have an unbreakable will to survive. The one thing they lack and that the common Israeli seems to want more than anything else is PEACE. There is a strong peace movement and the government will eventually bow to pressure by the world again and they will attempt to make the "tough choices" and give the Palestinians a lot of what they desire. And then the Palestinians who never missed a chance to miss a chance, will start attacking them yet again. And supporters of the Palis will continue to decry Israeli aggression. And the really sickening thing is that no one seems to see the end of the season of trouble and what fruit all this is going to bear eventually.

LOL. What a contorted view of reality.

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