Piazza St Peter Geometry

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

Oi oi oi. Pentagrams are nothing, absolutely nothing to do with any magic or satanism. There are no satanists, there never were any satanists. I do not even bother to give that name a capital s because it is all total, utter nonsense. All is a mix of religious propaganda down the years and the madness of late 19th century fools.

And yes, St Peter's Square is NOT part of Vatican State. From above the only symbol is that of a version of the cross, as would be expected infront of a Christan church. I think many of the Popes were simply after money and power, like Julius II. Some were probably not better than common crimminals, various Borgias etc. But it is stretching reality to say any worshipped the non-existant satan. Though it does not stop them worshipping their non-existant god

The Obelisk has nothing to do with St Peter's. It was set up as simply an ornament on center of the spina of the Circus Vaticanus. St Peter's was built on the site of a nearby existing pagan burial ground, and I have been into the necropolis under the church to see with my own eyes, because St Paul was buried amongst the pagans. Over time many Christians chose to be buried near him. Never saw any temple of Mithras there.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Atentutankh-pasheri

[GS1]

England and some colonies that includes U.S. at that time, changed over to the Gregorian Calendar on 14th September 1752, the location for switch was London and was applied at midnight, funny isn't it that Alnilam, Centre star of Belt of Orion was rising at location and time, isn't it? Astronomy graph on link below:-

http://2012forum.com...=3832&mode=view

Close, Alnilam rose at 12:49:58 AM. Bellatrix, right shoulder of Orion, rose at 12:00:23 AM. Jupiter; 12:04:05 AM.

[GS1]

Oi oi oi. Pentagrams are nothing, absolutely nothing to do with any magic or satanism. There are no satanists, there never were any satanists. I do not even bother to give that name a capital s because it is all total, utter nonsense. All is a mix of religious propaganda down the years and the madness of late 19th century fools.

And yes, St Peter's Square is NOT part of Vatican State. From above the only symbol is that of a version of the cross, as would be expected infront of a Christan church. I think many of the Popes were simply after money and power, like Julius II. Some were probably not better than common crimminals, various Borgias etc. But it is stretching reality to say any worshipped the non-existant satan. Though it does not stop them worshipping their non-existant god

The Obelisk has nothing to do with St Peter's. It was set up as simply an ornament on center of the spina of the Circus Vaticanus. St Peter's was built on the site of a nearby existing pagan burial ground, and I have been into the necropolis under the church to see with my own eyes, because St Paul was buried amongst the pagans. Over time many Christians chose to be buried near him. Never saw any temple of Mithras there.

I was joking about Satan. Obviously Satan never existed. Get a sense of humour, willya. However, the hexagram and also the pentagram were used in Wicca as magical talismans, which is where the term "hex" came from, and also by the Masons and other secret societies. Presumably, they represent Mercury and Venus, mercury making a hexagram with its solar conjunctions and Venus making a pentagram. Do Christians worship the planets? Venus was Lucifer, the light bringer, the Morning Star. Lucifer is actually called that in the Bible. There is no obvious reason to have either in front of a Christian basilica.

The obelisk is in Vatican City, is it not? What do you consider to be "the Vatican"?

You didn't see a temple of Mithras there? That might be because the Vatican was built over the remains of the Mithras temple. Can't imagine why the Catholic Church wouldn't have signs saying "this way to the Mithras temple", but what can you do?

Edited September 29, 2012 by GS1

[Imaginarynumber1]

"Wicca" wasn't even invented until the 1950's by one of Crowley's followers.

And that's not where the word "hex" comes from at all.

WORD HISTORY The word hex is a good example of the sort of borrowing from other languages that occurred in the English-speaking former colonies of Great Britain. German and Swiss immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania in the late 17th and 18th centuries spoke a dialect of German known as Pennsylvania Dutch. In this dialect hexe was the equivalent of the German verb hexen, "to practice sorcery." The English verb hex, first recorded in the sense "to practice witchcraft" in an 1830 work called Annals of Philadelphia, is borrowed from Pennsylvania Dutch, as is the noun.

Read more: http://www.answers.c...x#ixzz27takawdX

It has nothing to do with hexagrams or pentagrams.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1

[GS1]

Fine , whatever. Why is there a hexagram and a pentagram out front of St Peter's Basilica? Did Jesus like those figures?

Edited September 29, 2012 by GS1

[GS1]

I was actually on September 15th 1752 when I got those readings. Somehow I got a day ahead. The rising times for the 14th are actually a little later than those I stated. Alnilam 12:53:54, Bellatrix 12:04:19 and Jupiter 12:07:21. I'm using Starry Night Pro 6.0.3.

Edited September 29, 2012 by GS1

[Tutankhaten-pasheri]

I was joking about Satan. Obviously Satan never existed. Get a sense of humour, willya. However, the hexagram and also the pentagram were used in Wicca as magical talismans, which is where the term "hex" came from, and also by the Masons and other secret societies. Presumably, they represent Mercury and Venus, mercury making a hexagram with its solar conjunctions and Venus making a pentagram. Do Christians worship the planets? Venus was Lucifer, the light bringer, the Morning Star. Lucifer is actually called that in the Bible. There is no obvious reason to have either in front of a Christian basilica.

The obelisk is in Vatican City, is it not? What do you consider to be "the Vatican"?

You didn't see a temple of Mithras there? That might be because the Vatican was built over the remains of the Mithras temple. Can't imagine why the Catholic Church wouldn't have signs saying "this way to the Mithras temple", but what can you do?

There is nothing wrong with my sense of humour and I do not loose it so easily...

About St Peter's Square I am wrong, though there is joint jurisdiction between Italy and Vatican State. Though about obelisk I am correct, it is only an ornament, no hidden meanings about it.

About temple of Mithras I am 100% correct. Vatican hill was a cemetery and there is no posibility of any temple being built in a Roman cemetery. Ususally mithraeum were in the understructure of believers houses, as in Ostia, which I have been in. I will say again, I have been in the necropolis under St Peter's and there is no mithraeum or ever was.

[GS1]

Fine, I was going by what I had read. It's not important anyway. The important thing is that it is 100% certain that the geometry I showed was actually used in the design of Bernini's Piazza. It is way to precise to be coincidence. The mystery is why. I don't claim to know exactly why. I was simply speculating. Why don't YOU tell me why?

[Harte]

Fine , whatever. Why is there a hexagram and a pentagram out front of St Peter's Basilica? Did Jesus like those figures?

There is no hexagram nor is there a pentagram.

Those have been drawn in, and the various vertices do not correspond with any actual, physical construct in the plaza.

Note that the Star of David has also been drawn there in your pic. The vertices of the two triangles making up that figure do not correspond with any physical attributes in the plaza either.

You know, you could also draw Mickey Mouse within the circle as well. Hence, the Vatican is the secret resting place of Walt Disney's frozen head.

Harte

[monk 56]

Hi GS1,

You have made a mistake in astronomy, you have included Summer time that began during the first World War, you need to be accurate with anything with Egyptian Dreams forum, if you are not they will take you into being an idiot, i'm not applicable to your investigation of St Peters backyard, i have another way of being correct, you have made a bad connection, with astronomy, it seems that you have implimented Summer time to 1752, please note before we go forward, this was part of W.W.1., i observe Egyptian Dreams, they are a very good force, but can be subject to mistakes, however i would not be against them in ancient Egyptian myths, i see no sacred geometry that you promote in St. Peter's, however if you would apply correct astronomy, at least you will know you are about an hour out of true.

I'm with you but you must learn, you look at wrong things, or else Egyptian Dreams will bury you....they are very good, so be as good, if you want to debate!

I do include Delta T in any alignment, be very careful GS1, as yet you don't know how to align properly, this forum is very difficult, i'm aware of Egyptian Dream members, i can help you against, but only with Renaissance beliefs, ie Hermetic!

My programme is accurate, using the "proleptic Julian Calendar", the earliest date is "The Battle of Halys, that had an Eclipse, i have tried very hard to get location right, i may be wrong slightly, an astronomy programme needs to be very accurate over this, and you need to know how to get it accurate like Nasa, or else Egyptian Dreams members will bury you!

http://en.wikipedia....Battle_of_Halys

I'm going way back in history, and Delta T is is a factor, it is better that it comes from me than Egyptian Dreams, i'm on your side as long as you learn, we must note that Delta T is estimated as shown:-

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/uncertainty2004.html

Please note accuracy in my astronomy diagram, same as NASA!!!!

http://2012forum.com...=3629&mode=view

First point GS1, i would apply Quid Pro Quo:-

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Quid_pro_quo

You at least applied Summer Time to 14th September 1752, that wasn't in application before W.W.1., link below:-

http://en.wikipedia....ght_saving_time

We will get into further debate as we go, you may think i'm against you, i'm not, but you have to learn how to debate with Egyptian Dreams....if you don't know your stuff, they will bury you, give me a private message!

Edited September 30, 2012 by monk 56

[Imaginarynumber1]

Fine , whatever. Why is there a hexagram and a pentagram out front of St Peter's Basilica? Did Jesus like those figures?

There's nothing there. They've just been inscribed on a circle. There are no physical points that would even represent the points of either. I cold do the same thing with the image of any circle.

[Imaginarynumber1]

There is no hexagram nor is there a pentagram.

Those have been drawn in, and the various vertices do not correspond with any actual, physical construct in the plaza.

Note that the Star of David has also been drawn there in your pic. The vertices of the two triangles making up that figure do not correspond with any physical attributes in the plaza either.

You know, you could also draw Mickey Mouse within the circle as well. Hence, the Vatican is the secret resting place of Walt Disney's frozen head.

Harte

Beat me to it.

[GS1]

Okay, ER, I don't really care that much about what was happening in the sky at midnight Sept 14 1752. I was merely trying to be helpful to you. Frankly, I seriously doubt that anyone was correlating the start of the Gregorian calendar to anything in particular but if you think so them good luck with that. I also don't care in the slightest about egyptiandreams forum. Why would I?

[GS1]

Wow, you guys can't see that pentagram/hexagram in that image I posted? You guys gotta get some Lasek surgery or something. Of course there is nothing on the ground to show the points of the geometry. It's known as "a secret". Apparently you're unfamiliar with the concept. The Pope probably wouldn't have gone along with Bernini's little scheme of encoding secret geometry of the Egyptians in St. Peter's Piazza. What, you didn't know that what I showed was Egyptian geometry? You guys really gotta keep up with the rest of the class. Look at my New Giza Layout Theory thread.

[monk 56]

Okay, GS1, you have shown that you can't apply astronomy, so you are not engaged, however Egyptian Dreams are engaged with "FRED ESPANAK" members of this forum know the truth, i'm not against ancient egyptian study, and obviously this may be awkward going forward into power play with Hermetic Principles, but Egyptian Dreams know the score, it is a very good forum that knows how to look at ancient beliefs, against astronomy!

Big Time, they will look at Fred Espanak, i will also, i like him and follow:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Espenak

You have little idea where this is leading!

Edited September 30, 2012 by monk 56

[Imaginarynumber1]

Wow, you guys can't see that pentagram/hexagram in that image I posted? You guys gotta get some Lasek surgery or something. Of course there is nothing on the ground to show the points of the geometry. It's known as "a secret". Apparently you're unfamiliar with the concept. The Pope probably wouldn't have gone along with Bernini's little scheme of encoding secret geometry of the Egyptians in St. Peter's Piazza. What, you didn't know that what I showed was Egyptian geometry? You guys really gotta keep up with the rest of the class. Look at my New Giza Layout Theory thread.

The point is that you can put anything in there. I can put my cats head in there. Is there some secret involving my cats head that I don't know about?

[monk 56]

Yes it is good, you see nothing in sacred geometry in St. Peters Sq. i bow down to ancient astronomy, i do value people from forums regarding

ancient Egyptians, it is completely another form of analysis to how egyptians philosophy changed after Isis, please ponder, i'm very tired today, however i'm an warrior tomorrow!

Lets make it easy, i'm not anyone that would attack anything that may prove useful in St. Peter's Sq.. i'm easy, i don't feel any thing in sacred geometry involving sacred geometry has any value, but i can stand alone......please be a sam spade involving Obelisk outside Vatican, we may need to join in research, be careful how you approach me, just because others can show how researchers are silly, this may not apply to me!

Be aware of how i am different of any research involving Vatican Obelisk, different matter involving Hermetic involvement! Completely different, yes Egyptian Dreams are useful.....but all belief is due to power, this is beyond egyptians to how it will play out! Anyone want to play?

Edited September 30, 2012 by monk 56

[monk 56]

In truth i would be wary of dispute regarding any true member of Egyptian Dreams, however Egyptian Principles or criteria was never applied in struggle after, so strange powerplay after regarding religion, in this i'm happy to show difference in the powerplay of religious beliefs, and how hermetic philosophy dominated this AFTER ISIS AND OSIRIS MYTHS, i wait for debate with any true member of Egyptian Dreams forum, please note they are the best in research regarding ancient Egyptians.....but religion after has powerplay not so connected.....will no one play with me????

[GS1]

The point is that you can put anything in there. I can put my cats head in there. Is there some secret involving my cats head that I don't know about?

That's very nice, only your cat's head doesn't precisely match the curved walls of the Piazza nor the extended walls leading from there up to the basilica nor the circular areas at its center. Try putting something in there that does THAT, smartass. Though I admit that the above image may depict the Cat of Satan. Don't turn your back on him.

Edited October 1, 2012 by GS1

[Harte]

IOW, shrink the cat head down a smidge so that it fits in the circle like the two stars do.

Harte

[Imaginarynumber1]

That's very nice, only your cat's head doesn't precisely match the curved walls of the Piazza nor the extended walls leading from there up to the basilica. Try putting something in there that does THAT, smartass.

When you put something in there that perfectly matches, then I will, too. Until then, however, I will continue to put whatever I want in there.

Notice how the raptors jaws line up with the outer walls...

[GS1]

Okay, GS1, you have shown that you can't apply astronomy, so you are not engaged, however Egyptian Dreams are engaged with "FRED ESPANAK" members of this forum know the truth, i'm not against ancient egyptian study, and obviously this may be awkward going forward into power play with Hermetic Principles, but Egyptian Dreams know the score, it is a very good forum that knows how to look at ancient beliefs, against astronomy!

Big Time, they will look at Fred Espanak, i will also, i like him and follow:-

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Fred_Espenak

You have little idea where this is leading!

When the people on egyptian dreams come HERE then I may engage with them. I have standards in forums I appear on and ED doesn't come close to meeting them. You're here, why don't YOU simply post the essentials of whatever you're referring to on here, where people with good taste in forums can see it?

[GS1]

IOW, shrink the cat head down a smidge so that it fits in the circle like the two stars do.

Harte

You're both insane. The piazza is obviously geometric, so what is the basis for that geometry? Do you actually maintain that the great Bernini just made a randomly positioned nice looking frame for a cat or crocodile head? Get a damn auotCAD program and do some actual work, you lazy bastids. Maybe you will actually be able to equal my work, as if. First you'd have to invest a month in figuring out how to draw a straight line in the program. I do give you both brownie points for very creative use of the "paste transparent" function of an image editing program though. How long did THAT take you.

Edited October 1, 2012 by GS1

[Imaginarynumber1]

You're both insane. The piazza is obviously geometric, so what is the basis for that geometry? Do you actually maintain that the great Bernini just made a randomly positioned nice looking frame for a cat or crocodile head? Get a damn auotCAD program and do some actual work, you lazy bastids.

No one is doubting that there are geometrical patterns, but mainly that your patterns and interpretations are wrong. It's not uncommon to find geometric patterns in older architecture. Not uncommon AT ALL.

Any you might want to lay of with the insults. It makes you look crass and unable to substantiate your claims.

And it's a raptor, not a crocodile. Have you even seen a crocodile? That raptor looks nothing like a croc...

Edited October 1, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1

[Harte]

The fact that you didn't know that Bernini was famous for being a huge cat lover is quite telling.

In fact, the entire plaza was based on an original design he created for a gigantic litterbox to service his herd of pet cats.

Harte