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Karlis

Germany Eyes Gold Standard

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The latest report from the Deutsche Bank, the country’s leading private bank

It says: “We believe there are nearly zero real options available to global policy-makers. The world needs growth and is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get it.” It forecasts bluntly that the value of the dollar will plummet in the first half of 2013 to less than a 2,000th of an ounce of gold. It reckons “the growth in supply of fiat currencies such as the USD will remain an important driver.”

That’s just for openers. The report then goes on to assert that gold is misunderstood and doesn’t really belong in the basket of “commodities” used by so many economists. Gold is money, according to the Deutsche Bank. Says it: “We would go further however, and argue that gold could be characterised as ‘good’ money as opposed to ‘bad’ money which would be represented by many of today’s fiat currencies.”

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First, the Deutsche Bank is a private company, therefore hardly a policy maker. Second Germany has only a small voice in what the trend for the currency will be as they are member of the Euro meaning that the ECB makes the monetary policy and third but not last, this is another piece of disinformation thrown around by the gold hamsters who need some gullible to buy their overvalued stash.

Nobody who has any idea of the economy is going to go back to the gold standard because the amount of people on this planet and the issuing economy has outgrown all gold on this planet.

Edited by questionmark

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First, the Deutsche Bank is a private company, therefore hardly a policy maker. Second Germany has only a small voice in what the trend for the currency will be as they are member of the Euro meaning that the ECB makes the monetary policy and third but not last, this is another piece of disinformation thrown around by the gold hamsters who need some gullible to buy their overvalued stash.

Nobody who has any idea of the economy is going to go back to the gold standard because the amount of people on this planet and the issuing economy has outgrown all gold on this planet.

You get the cigar for pointing out that there is not enough gold in the world to back any Fiat currency (approx 10 trillion dollars worth has been produced up to 2009 - since the beginning of time!!)

Neither do I really get the idea that Gold has intrinsic value - it has no calorific, nutrient, or protein value. I might be able to swap a goat for an ounce but then I have no goat and no food. In this case "Intrinsic value" is a misnomer because it is based on a "perceived" value in a developed market. In the event that gold loses all market value then a goat is still a goat and will feed a family. A devalued and worthless Kruggerand wont... IMO

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Yes gold was money. So was silver, copper, and for a time in Holland tulips. However when gold was money its value was still debateable and largely set by government policy, namely on how much coins weighed and what purity level they were. The government issuing the gold also had to be stable in order for the coinage to be accepted at face value. So gold could be just as unstable as paper money.

Plus these are bankers. Aren't they all evil monsters? :P

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You get the cigar for pointing out that there is not enough gold in the world to back any Fiat currency (approx 10 trillion dollars worth has been produced up to 2009 - since the beginning of time!!)

Neither do I really get the idea that Gold has intrinsic value - it has no calorific, nutrient, or protein value. I might be able to swap a goat for an ounce but then I have no goat and no food. In this case "Intrinsic value" is a misnomer because it is based on a "perceived" value in a developed market. In the event that gold loses all market value then a goat is still a goat and will feed a family. A devalued and worthless Kruggerand wont... IMO

It is extremely risible what people attribute a value to. What is worse, they don't want to speculate with gold, they want to keep it in case the system crashes. Where my question is: So you are going to go with your Kruger Rand that you have bought for $1600 to buy a hamburger? Speaking of inflation! I could probably get more by chopping wood for the hamburger joint.

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It is extremely risible what people attribute a value to. What is worse, they don't want to speculate with gold, they want to keep it in case the system crashes. Where my question is: So you are going to go with your Kruger Rand that you have bought for $1600 to buy a hamburger? Speaking of inflation! I could probably get more by chopping wood for the hamburger joint.

do you think the gold price doesn't move with inflation?

all things being equal, if inflation pushes a hamburger up to $1600, an ounce of gold will still buy you 1600 hamburgers, which means the price of gold will be $2.5 million an ounce.

do you care to guess at the price of gold in the first week of january 2013?

my guess is $2000-2100

currently it is $1760

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do you think the gold price doesn't move with inflation?

all things being equal, if inflation pushes a hamburger up to $1600, an ounce of gold will still buy you 1600 hamburgers, which means the price of gold will be $2.5 million an ounce.

do you care to guess at the price of gold in the first week of january 2013?

my guess is $2000-2100

currently it is $1760

And could you tell me what the guy at the hamburger joint would give you as change?

Besides, gold has hardly moved with the inflation, in fact in most of the bullion buying countries the market is crashing because it is priced out of the market. To keep up the existing prices the gold hamsters have to come up with over a trillion a year to buy the excess bullion. I doubt they can keep that up for long, no matter how many idiots they convince to sink their savings in gold. After that gold will return to its defacto value: about $500 an ounce with the monetary value adjusted to 2009.

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You guys keep whining about the price of gold as if it has some connection with the value of a dollar. It doesn't. If you want to gamble on gold futures, that's your business (and loss).

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The only TRUE value of gold is the value it has AS A COMMODITY - for electronics, medical uses, jewelry, etc... To claim it is actually "Money" is over looking it's real value...

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I read an article this morning about the "Chancellor of Europe", "The Godmother of Europe", "The most powerful woman in the world", "Plan M for Macht (German word for Power), and I can't remember what the other comments were but she's not exactly advocating a gold standard when she's the Rescuer in Chief of a hopeless centralized disaster the Eurozone.

Gold is the gold standard of money and has been for thousands of years. Fiat paper that's a few hundred years old that has no historical precedent of survival isn't money by comparison.

You guys keep whining about the price of gold as if it has some connection with the value of a dollar. It doesn't. If you want to gamble on gold futures, that's your business (and loss).

It does have a connection, it's inversely correlated. Go argue with the chart.

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You guys keep whining about the price of gold as if it has some connection with the value of a dollar. It doesn't. If you want to gamble on gold futures, that's your business (and loss).

Well, those getting bitten by the dogs this time will be considerably poorer when the bubble bursts. Those who started the bubble and those who got out in time considerably richer.

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I read an article this morning about the "Chancellor of Europe", "The Godmother of Europe", "The most powerful woman in the world", "Plan M for Macht (German word for Power), and I can't remember what the other comments were but she's not exactly advocating a gold standard when she's the Rescuer in Chief of a hopeless centralized disaster the Eurozone.

Gold is the gold standard of money and has been for thousands of years. Fiat paper that's a few hundred years old that has no historical precedent of survival isn't money by comparison.

It does have a connection, it's inversely correlated. Go argue with the chart.

So have caori snail houses, cattle and gigantic stone wheels been. Doubt anybody will go bunkers over them

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So have caori snail houses, cattle and gigantic stone wheels been. Doubt anybody will go bunkers over them

After the Continental wasn't "worth a Continental" what the fiat garbage was no longer based on became money again by default. And that's the point. If you don't have a basis for your currency you're destined for disaster eventually. In case you haven't been paying attention, every American on a fixed income has been getting robbed by zero percent yields that can't match the rate of inflation and it's all the greedy self-entitled money printers thinking that some giant government is going to save your champagne taste that's causing it.

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And could you tell me what the guy at the hamburger joint would give you as change?
assuming gold price of $2.5 million/ounce, you would sell your 1/1600 ounce of gold and give him $1600 dollars for the hamburger.
Besides, gold has hardly moved with the inflation, in fact in most of the bullion buying countries the market is crashing because it is priced out of the market. To keep up the existing prices the gold hamsters have to come up with over a trillion a year to buy the excess bullion.
you are talking about the gold consumable market such as india, not the central banks and investable hot money. less than 1% of investable hot money is currently invested in gold - that is not a bubble. I suspect china and russia are currently quietly exchanging their dollar reserves into gold given QE is now permanent at $500 billion / year and likely to increase geometrically.
I doubt they can keep that up for long, no matter how many idiots they convince to sink their savings in gold. After that gold will return to its defacto value: about $500 an ounce with the monetary value adjusted to 2009.

give us your guess for gold in the first week of jan 2013. just a guess.

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assuming gold price of $2.5 million/ounce, you would sell your 1/1600 ounce of gold and give him $1600 dollars for the hamburger.

you are talking about the gold consumable market such as india, not the central banks and investable hot money. less than 1% of investable hot money is currently invested in gold - that is not a bubble. I suspect china and russia are currently quietly exchanging their dollar reserves into gold given QE is now permanent at $500 billion / year and likely to increase geometrically.

give us your guess for gold in the first week of jan 2013. just a guess.

Yep, and how exactly is the guy in the hamburger joint going to measure your 1/1600 of an ounce? On his kitchen scale?

I can tell you how that will be: Like in Europe after WWII when people traded a Persian rug for a sack of potatoes, later for a pound of potatoes after the farmer already had a Persian rug in his pigsty and a Monet hanging in the horse stable besides having his dog eating out of sterling silver.

You gold coin has no more value than what somebody will want to give you for it. And if the guy at the hamburger joint waits long enough you will give him two Krugers for a hamburger.

The only thing that has value once the monetary system crashes is what you can produce not what you wasted your money on before the crash.

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Yep, and how exactly is the guy in the hamburger joint going to measure your 1/1600 of an ounce? On his kitchen scale?

I can tell you how that will be: Like in Europe after WWII when people traded a Persian rug for a sack of potatoes, later for a pound of potatoes after the farmer already had a Persian rug in his pigsty and a Monet hanging in the horse stable besides having his dog eating out of sterling silver.

You gold coin has no more value than what somebody will want to give you for it. And if the guy at the hamburger joint waits long enough you will give him two Krugers for a hamburger.

The only thing that has value once the monetary system crashes is what you can produce not what you wasted your money on before the crash.

I bought a digital scale on Ebay that can measure thousandths of a gram and I can fit it in my pocket, so yes, a scale. It's magical I tell ya.

As for what value people are giving you for it? They're giving you way more than the spot price consistently every day! Visit the largest online marketplace in the world and take a look and stop lying to yourself to make your preferred bondholder status feel better. If you think a currency crisis and the upcoming runs on the banks that you will suffer from in Greece and all across Europe are going to change what is proven daily already right before your eyes, I don't know what you're smoking but you can keep it to yourself.

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assuming gold price of $2.5 million/ounce, you would sell your 1/1600 ounce of gold and give him $1600 dollars for the hamburger.

you are talking about the gold consumable market such as india, not the central banks and investable hot money. less than 1% of investable hot money is currently invested in gold - that is not a bubble. I suspect china and russia are currently quietly exchanging their dollar reserves into gold given QE is now permanent at $500 billion / year and likely to increase geometrically.

give us your guess for gold in the first week of jan 2013. just a guess.

About the same as now, give or take $200. Tendency to fall in Q2 as I imagine the gold hamsters will be out of money by then and there still will be gold coming out of the mines that needs a buyer.

And Russia and China have totally different problems than hoarding gold, they have a economy that actually has to compete to keep alive, at least as long as the Euro is undervalued because they have a "crisis". And that you do with cash, not with gold.

I bought a digital scale on Ebay that can measure thousandths of a gram and I can fit it in my pocket, so yes, a scale. It's magical I tell ya.

As for what value people are giving you for it? They're giving you way more than the spot price consistently every day! Visit the largest online marketplace in the world and take a look and stop lying to yourself to make your preferred bondholder status feel better. If you think a currency crisis and the upcoming runs on the banks that you will suffer from in Greece and all across Europe are going to change what is proven daily already right before your eyes, I don't know what you're smoking but you can keep it to yourself.

Wait until the gold hamsters run out of money, then we will talk again.

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Wait until the gold hamsters run out of money, then we will talk again.

Gold will eventually become a bubble and like everything else that becomes a bubble, its price will correct per the marketplace as should be. That time is nowhere close to today based on massive expansion of the money supply thanks to central banking crooks worldwide. Namecalling is what you have to stoop to because your arguments are blind to all reality. You can keep dreaming that central banks aren't flooding their economies with monopoly money and keep on losing your lunch in the process. Your happy undeserving country deserves market justice. You need a serious dose of reality and Nigel Farage now, not your German enablers and losing theories based on the opposite of reality.

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Gold will eventually become a bubble and like everything else that becomes a bubble, its price will correct per the marketplace as should be. That time is nowhere close to today based on massive expansion of the money supply thanks to central banking crooks worldwide. Namecalling is what you have to stoop to because your arguments are blind to all reality. You can keep dreaming that central banks aren't flooding their economies with monopoly money and keep on losing your lunch in the process. Your happy undeserving country deserves market justice. You need a serious dose of reality and Nigel Farage now, not your German enablers and losing theories based on the opposite of reality.

Gold is a commodity not a value, and what happens when a commodity gets over-speculated can be read here.

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The problem is that even though the Fiat currencies are all on a trajectory to hell at the moment - a gold standard is just clutching at straws as it is not fit for purpose as a real international currency.

A none debauchable, non fiat reserve currency based upon a basket of real commodities is the only real solution to the forthcoming crisis we face.

Leaving currency in the hands of private banks (as now), or basing it on an inequitable distribution of a thing without any intrinsic value(the Gold standard), or leaving it in the control of one single Government (USA) are all recipes for repeating the same mistakes all over again.

Money has to be tied to real commodities otherwise it is prey to manipulation by people who realise that money in its current form is pure fantasy.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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Gold is a commodity not a value, and what happens when a commodity gets over-speculated can be read here.

Gold is a commodity and commodities have a value. Gold is money. This is an historical and present day fact. Ignoring the market and denying reality makes you look silly. I understand the need for retarded bondholder theories when economies get into as severe shape as Greece's but you have no hope. You've crossed the threshold of no return and you're going to crash like a locomotive into a cliff wall. The central banking idiots and their one trick pony isn't suddenly going to start working. You don't create any value by dumping money on stuff. Nothing gets produced. There is no value there. It's just new money chasing after existing products and services and prices inevitably must go up. It's like cancer and all your heroes do is spread it.

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The problem is that even though the Fiat currencies are all on a trajectory to hell at the moment - a gold standard is just clutching at straws as it is not fit for purpose as a real international currency.

A none debauchable, non fiat currency reserve currency based upon a basket of real commodities is the only real solution to the forthcoming crisis we face.

Leaving currency in the hands of private banks (as now), or basing it on an inequitable distribution of a thing without any intrinsic value(the Gold standard), or leaving it in the control of one single Government (USA) are all recipes for repeating the same mistakes all over again.

Br Cornelius

If these guys that dislike fiat currencies at least would try to base the value of currency on something tangible, like the average productivity of a worker, on the average factory output or on how many pounds of cheese is produced and consumed we would have something. But basing it on a insufficiently available commodity is about as smart as bringing a sword to a gun fight.

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Gold is a commodity and commodities have a value. Gold is money. This is an historical and present day fact. Ignoring the market and denying reality makes you look silly. I understand the need for retarded bondholder theories when economies get into as severe shape as Greece's but you have no hope. You've crossed the threshold of no return and you're going to crash like a locomotive into a cliff wall. The central banking idiots and their one trick pony isn't suddenly going to start working. You don't create any value by dumping money on stuff. Nothing gets produced. There is no value there. It's just new money chasing after existing products and services and prices inevitably must go up. It's like cancer and all your heroes do is spread it.

Gold is NOT money, that is what the trader who sold you your stack told you cause he saw a sucker coming in. If gold were money it would never change in value but all values would be measured in gold.

Some times I wonder whether G*D forgot some when he passed out brains.

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The problem is that even though the Fiat currencies are all on a trajectory to hell at the moment - a gold standard is just clutching at straws as it is not fit for purpose as a real international currency.

A none debauchable, non fiat currency reserve currency based upon a basket of real commodities is the only real solution to the forthcoming crisis we face.

Leaving currency in the hands of private banks (as now), or basing it on an inequitable distribution of a thing without any intrinsic value(the Gold standard), or leaving it in the control of one single Government (USA) are all recipes for repeating the same mistakes all over again.

Br Cornelius

A real international currency? LOL

How about nobody work anymore? Why even work anymore? Let's just print money if we're going to pretend that it works! Let's print $16 trillion right now and pay off our national debt and then let's print another $4 trillion and buy a big pile of plastic junk from China down at Walmart! Holy ****g $@# where does this Keynesian nuttery end?

The banks have proven for years they're only going to use their dirty money to buy commodities and restrict lending to only the richest and most reliable borrowers, while rewarding savers who worked their entire lives and did everything right with zero percent decay for their honesty. Continuing to dump more fallow money onto the field isn't going to change anything and that's all the central yahoos know how to do. It's a one trick disaster and it's going down hard. If insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result, this is the best example of that in the world today. If you care about partisan politics, puppet bureaucrats, and next quarter's GDP, keep on cheering. If you're a Greek and you're scared to death about how big your next bailout is going to be (and there will be a next bailout), keep on cheering.

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Gold is NOT money, that is what the trader who sold you your stack told you cause he saw a sucker coming in. If gold were money it would never change in value but all values would be measured in gold.

Some times I wonder whether G*D forgot some when he passed out brains.

Are you daft? YOUR position is that currency is money, and HELLO???? Currencies change in value every day. You don't know what you're talking about but you have no chance talking to me.

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