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Karlis

Germany Eyes Gold Standard

162 posts in this topic

When they hyperinflate that will end.

Euros or whatever it is the Chinese use for currency.

The Europeans refuse to print in an amount to make the Euro suitable and the Chinese can't yet. But wait ten years and it might happen.

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Where Idoubt that it is about to happen. The dollar still has its biggest trump: It is the world's reserve currency so the whole world has an interest in avoiding inflation in the US.

At this stage I don't think they have much control over it. Their commitment to indefinite quantitative easing signals the final death spiral.

The problem for the world is that the currencies are not the cause of the current recession - there are much more powerful drivers at work here and the currency problems are just a symptom. The solutions been tried are not addressing the underlying problems so cannot make things better - continuing to apply quantitative easing just debases the currency and ensures greater global instability as a consequence.

The illusion that has come to grip the world is that everything is about economics when in fact economics is just the means of allowing the real wheels of commerce to rotate. Economists destroyed the real productive capacity of companies and are now doing the same for whole economies.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius
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Where Idoubt that it is about to happen. The dollar still has its biggest trump: It is the world's reserve currency so the whole world has an interest in avoiding inflation in the US.

This is the reason Odrama was placed into power. He's there to cut a deal to the world economic forum and sell the new idea to the American people. I believe the new bretton woods deal will still use centralized banking institutions issuing fiat money but will give an equalized stake to competing economies around the world. That's what my spidy senses are telling me.

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Gold and other precious metals protect an individual's self worth because these minerals never perish. They will remain constant forever.

I think humans, at the end of the day, are all imperfect creations designed by each others personal interests within the environment around them and how they counteract within it.. Leverage has been and always will be the measure of grand achievement. Try and imagine a society where personal interest does not exist. It doesn't. It's also what is the main driver behind global achievement. There will always exist those who will attempt to cheat the system. This is a proven fact. These people must be brought to justice in a court of law.... It's our duty to do this. Does it happen today.. no, not really. But the point remains that in all societies there will always exist those who use the GOV and the people to their benefit. It's also a proven fact that no other economic system other than the Capitalistic system has brought far more greater results than poor results historically.

This is why it's important to store something of grand value. At least allow the permission to allow competing currencies in America and watch the results unfold. Let the people decide. I'll take something tangible and forever over an oxidized piece of nothing any day.

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You misunderstand - money is still money whatever you peg it to. Better to peg it to something which represents value rather than an arbitrary mineral. I advocate pegging it to a basked of commodities with real value - such as grain, energy work etc. You have a bizarre fixation to a shiny bit of metal - I hardly call that a great quality in you.

Gold is not flexible enough to be used as a currency and that is why all countries came off the Gold standard - because it helped cause the great depression and held those who used it in a depressed state for longer than those who ditched it early.

I am absolutely certain that if I spent more time looking into it that there are multiple alternative currency models which better the Fiat system and the Gold Standard. I am neither sentimental for the past or foolish enough to believe that what we currently have is working.

Do not assume that simply because I do not agree with your simplistic one size fits all solution that I do not understand the issues at work here.

Br Cornelius

You misunderstand - money is still money whatever you peg it to. Better to peg it to something which represents value I advocate pegging it to a basked of commodities with real value - such as grain, energy, work etc. You have a bizarre fixation to a shiny bit of metal - I hardly call that a great quality in you.

I advocate pegging it to a basked of commodities with real value - such as grain, energy

Before you were suggesting that grain and work become money. You sound like you've conceded that this won't work.

Now you're suggesting we peg our money to it. If we peg money to grain, when your grain goes bad your money's value skyrockets. This would cut off trade with the rest of the world because nobody could afford to trade with US dollars. Starving Africans couldn't afford to buy food from the US anymore. If you peg it to energy, energy shortages mean your money skyrockets. Government would be drilling holes in every back yard if money was pegged to energy. We think government starts violence over oil now? Is that really the better alternative? I want to do more with less energy, and I'm sure you do too.

I am absolutely certain that if I spent more time looking into it that there are multiple alternative currency models which better the Fiat system and the Gold Standard.

Let me know if you come up with anything.

Do not assume that simply because I do not agree with your simplistic one size fits all solution that I do not understand the issues at work here.

WHY don't you agree with my simplistic one size fits all solution? Rhetorical insults about a solution aren't problems with that solution.

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WHY don't you agree with my simplistic one size fits all solution? Rhetorical insults about a solution aren't problems with that solution.

The Gold standard was dropped because of its multiple issues with how it effected the domestic economy leading to unemployment and recessions/depressions. The fact that they chose an even worse solution to those problems is not an argument which automatically favour going back on the Gold Standard. That is why your simplistic solution just doesn't cut it with me. I personally can see past the shiny none rusting qualities of Gold.

Br Cornelius

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The Europeans refuse to print in an amount to make the Euro suitable and the Chinese can't yet. But wait ten years and it might happen.

The US requires all nations to trade petroleum in Dollars.

If Germany tries to switch to the Gold Standard they'll find a reason to invade them.

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Since it was the ability of private banks to create money through credit which started this current credit crisis - one simple solution to prevent it from occurring again is to remove that abused privilege. Of course it still requires a responsible central bank (controlled by a responsible Government), but at least it removes the ability of private banks to behave irresponsibly in inflating the money supply through inappropriate lending.

http://www.soziologi...en/pdf/9903.pdf

Remember that quantitative easing (money supply inflation) is a response to the instability which the privately owned financial system introduced into the money supply.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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The Gold standard was dropped because of its multiple issues with how it effected the domestic economy leading to unemployment and recessions/depressions. The fact that they chose an even worse solution to those problems is not an argument which automatically favour going back on the Gold Standard. That is why your simplistic solution just doesn't cut it with me. I personally can see past the shiny none rusting qualities of Gold.

Br Cornelius

The lack of better alternatives does.

Explain how the gold standard caused unemployment and recessions/depressions and can you cite sources that validate this?

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The lack of better alternatives does.

Explain how the gold standard caused unemployment and recessions/depressions and can you cite sources that validate this?

What BR is advocating is some "utopian" dream where the entire society equalizes magically.

It ain't gonna happen.

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What BR is advocating is some "utopian" dream where the entire society equalizes magically.

It ain't gonna happen.

I haven't got time to respond to this in detail - but just to say - what an absolutely bizarre misrepresentation of my position.

The one thing that money certainly isn't is a vehicle to achieve a socialist Utopia - even if such a thing were remotely desirable.

A fair means of exchange without interest at source would be a better estimate of my position.

Br Cornelius

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You misunderstand - money is still money whatever you peg it to. Better to peg it to something which represents value I advocate pegging it to a basked of commodities with real value - such as grain, energy, work etc. You have a bizarre fixation to a shiny bit of metal - I hardly call that a great quality in you.

You can inflate the value of paper money away but you cant to do the same to gold.

Hence during hard economic times when inflation is likely to occur organisations invest in gold instead of leaving money sat in their business accounts. That way their savings arent wiped out.

The peasant populations are different. They starve and lose their homes when inflation hits because they never invest in gold as a reserve.

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I haven't got time to respond to this in detail - but just to say - what an absolutely bizarre misrepresentation of my position.

The one thing that money certainly isn't is a vehicle to achieve a socialist Utopia - even if such a thing were remotely desirable.

A fair means of exchange without interest at source would be a better estimate of my position.

Br Cornelius

Money, or the exchange of a promise to pay using bank notes or coins has what has been used to help everybody on Earth who benefits from free market capitalism evolve this far.

"A fair means of exchange without interest at source" is a rule of Islam. The rule basically states not to engage in risk. Where would human evolution be without anybody being allowed to take a risk?

Edited by acidhead

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Money, or the exchange of a promise to pay using bank notes or coins has what has been used to help everybody on Earth who benefits from free market capitalism evolve this far.

"A fair means of exchange without interest at source" is a rule of Islam. The rule basically states not to engage in risk. Where would human evolution be without anybody being allowed to take a risk?

So am I to take it that you agree with the fed charging interest on the money in circulation ?

Br Cornelius

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So am I to take it that you agree with the fed charging interest on the money in circulation ?

Br Cornelius

yes.. and I'm also okay with them going bankrupt if loans aren't repaid

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yes.. and I'm also okay with them going bankrupt if loans aren't repaid

That is where we would differ then. I believe that the money supply should be free of interest - but banks should be able to lend money at interest. I do not however believe that they should be able to lend money on a fractional basis (that is create money by creating debt).

And I couldn't disagree with banks going to the wall if they made bad loans - but that is hardly relevant to a discussion of the Gold Standard.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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That is where we would differ then. I believe that the money supply should be free of interest - but banks should be able to lend money at interest. I do not however believe that they should be able to lend money on a fractional basis (that is create money by creating debt).

And I couldn't disagree with banks going to the wall if they made bad loans - but that is hardly relevant to a discussion of the Gold Standard.

Br Cornelius

I could fix the economic problems in 5 mins -

1. Create a new state bank.

2. Have a new round of quantitive easing but hand all the new money to the state bank.

3. The state bank buys the debts of other banks.

4. The state bank goes bust wiping the debt out.

Not exactly rocket science.

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I could fix the economic problems in 5 mins -

1. Create a new state bank.

2. Have a new round of quantitive easing but hand all the new money to the state bank.

3. The state bank buys the debts of other banks.

4. The state bank goes bust wiping the debt out.

Not exactly rocket science.

What is *the Rule* in coining money, in the US Constitution?

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I could fix the economic problems in 5 mins -

1. Create a new state bank.

2. Have a new round of quantitive easing but hand all the new money to the state bank.

3. The state bank buys the debts of other banks.

4. The state bank goes bust wiping the debt out.

Not exactly rocket science.

why don't you just let the private banks go bust instead. and create a state bank (or federal bank controlled by congress) at the same time.

why should a public institution "buy" the debt of private companies? where is the incentive for them NOT to create the same mess again?

Edited by Little Fish

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why don't you just let the private banks go bust instead. and create a state bank (or federal bank controlled by congress) at the same time.

why should a public institution "buy" the debt of private companies? where is the incentive for them NOT to create the same mess again?

As I see it, the following suggestion could possibly (???) be the aim of the *Money Controllers* to collapse the world financial system, with the aim of introducing a "New Global Money System".
Have a new round of quantitive easing but hand all the new money to the state bank.

Result? A new "World Order" controls Global Finance?

Just a thought,

Karlis

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As I see it, the following suggestion could possibly (???) be the aim of the *Money Controllers* to collapse the world financial system, with the aim of introducing a "New Global Money System".

Result? A new "World Order" controls Global Finance?

Just a thought,

Karlis

Just to play the devils advocate - what is intrinsically wrong with a single global currency system - afterall it is the instabilities in international trade brought about by multiple competing currencies which have caused the current problems. Also, though they may not realise it, the Gold standard flunkies are advocating exactly the same thing

Br Cornelius

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Just to play the devils advocate - what is intrinsically wrong with a single global currency system - ...

.... Also, though they may not realise it, the Gold standard flunkies are advocating exactly the same thing

Br Cornelius

Nothing wrong with that, imo; *if* human nature to control power is not involved in the equation. :tu:
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1. why don't you just let the private banks go bust instead.

2. create a state bank (or federal bank controlled by congress) at the same time.

3. why should a public institution "buy" the debt of private companies.

4. where is the incentive for them NOT to create the same mess again?

1. What would happen to the finances in business accounts? It would cause the worse recession in history.

2. Banks need free enterprise to generate maximum profits and government meddling to be kept at its minimum.

3. The state bank is just a temporary measure. Its created to aborb bank debts then ceases trading. As such all debt is made to disappear.

4. PLCs such as banks are subject to an external audit once a year. Auditors check no corrupt has gone on, they put in place the controls to prevent corruption and they assess risks of failure. It is very difficult for dodgy, risky practices to slip past the auditors unless the auditors arent up to their jobs or the government is applying pressure to them to make them turn a blind eye.

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What is *the Rule* in coining money, in the US Constitution?

I dont know I live in the UK and we are allowed to quantitive ease here.

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I dont know I live in the UK and we are allowed to quantitive ease here.

The USA Constitution *originally* made it clear as to how money was created by the Government.

The Congress shall have Power ...

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Source

In other words -- the government, *not banks* were given authority to mint money.

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