New voter I.D. laws

[ninjadude]

Correct - you don't. UNLESS:

You want to drive

You want to rent a video

You want to check out a book from a library

You want to cash a check

You want to avoid breaking the law when being asked for ID in some States

In other words - you don't have to have an ID to breathe but to interact within our society on any level other than the poorest...you NEED some form of ID.

all true. Libraries are dying. Checks? when was the last time you actually wrote a check! Some states are just wrong. It will get changed someday. Rent a video? Not needed for Netflix, cable on-demand, hulu and a bunch of other online rentals. Rent video. Blockbuster went under. You probably still have a "vcr". Lastly, many people don't drive. That doesn't mean that don't "interact" with society. They use public transportation or don't feel the need to travel.

[ninjadude]

If these people care so little about voting that the can't get a freaking ID to prove they are who they say they are maybe they shouldn't vote.

No the fact is we do care. Very much about our freedoms. And one of them is that you don't need that.

[ninjadude]

I still cant understand the problem the people from the USA have with national IDs. Here you have your ID (the ones you get when you are a child is free, later you have to pay for the one when you are of legal age and if you lost yours), and you use it to prove your identity, and to vote, to show to the police or any other civil authority, to make shopping with a credit card, etc.

Because here you don't have to prove your identity. We don't have to carry papers.

[+and-then]

Totally disagree. If the person has served their sentence they should not lose their right to vote for the rest of their life IMO.

Voting is both a fundamental right and a civic duty. However there remains one significant blanket barrier to the franchise: 5.85 million American citizens are not allowed to vote because of a criminal conviction. As many as 4.4 million of these people live, work, and raise families in our communities, but because of a conviction in their past they are still denied the right to vote.

Felony disenfranchisement laws in the United States are deeply rooted in the troubled history of American race relations, and the disproportionate racial impact of these laws continues to this day. Nationwide, 13% of African-American men have lost the right to vote, a rate that is seven times the national average. Given current rates of incarceration, three in ten of the next generation of African-American men across the country can expect to lose the right to vote at some point in their lifetime.

http://www.brennance...inal_conviction

I was away from the thread awhile but want to answer this. I ALSO think that when a person has been tried and convicted or admits guilt and serves the penalty then their right to vote should be restored unless the felony was vote fraud.

Because here you don't have to prove your identity. We don't have to carry papers.

Yet.

[MiskatonicGrad]

No the fact is we do care. Very much about our freedoms. And one of them is that you don't need that.

Voting is not a freedom it's a Right just like driving, legally owning a fire arm, buying a house, opening a bank account, cashing your goverment assistance check(but since we see who complains when you bring this up maybe not), and any thing else you have to do with an ID.

though I view voting more as a duty just like owning and knowing how to use a firearm.

Edited September 27, 2012 by MiskatonicGrad

[Gromdor]

I disagree. Voting and owning firearms are rights guaranteed by the constitution. Driving is a privilege, however. And as for buying a house, opening a bank account or cashing a check- you really have no say in that. The bank can flat out say no.

[MiskatonicGrad]

I disagree. Voting and owning firearms are rights guaranteed by the constitution. Driving is a privilege, however. And as for buying a house, opening a bank account or cashing a check- you really have no say in that. The bank can flat out say no.

Ok maybe I did go alittle overboard.

[ninjadude]

Voting is not a freedom it's a Right just like driving, legally owning a fire arm, buying a house, opening a bank account, cashing your goverment assistance check(but since we see who complains when you bring this up maybe not), and any thing else you have to do with an ID.

Buying a house is a right? Gee and I just bought one 6 months ago. No ID required.

Bank Accounts can be opened on line. No ID required.

Government assistance is given on Cards or direct deposit. No ID required.

But yeah keep trying. I think you should have a government security check to own a firearm.

Edited September 28, 2012 by ninjadude

[Mekorig]

Because here you don't have to prove your identity. We don't have to carry papers.

Papers? it a card, lik a driver´s licence! You need it to avoid voting fraud (you also have voters records),a nd to prove your identity when you need it (like when you buy with a credit or debit card).

[Michelle]

Buying a house is a right? Gee and I just bought one 6 months ago. No ID required.

Bank Accounts can be opened on line. No ID required.

Government assistance is given on Cards or direct deposit. No ID required.

But yeah keep trying. I think you should have a government security check to own a firearm.

If all of this is true, then it is a serious flaw that needs to be corrected.

[Michelle]

But yeah keep trying. I think you should have a government security check to own a firearm.

In case you didn't know....you do.

[Myles]

Because here you don't have to prove your identity. We don't have to carry papers.

Did you just say that you do not need an ID to use a credit card? Never? I'm usually not required, but many times I am. I am happy to provide ID. If fact, instead of signing the back of my cards, I write "SEE ID" on it so that I will be asked.

[Myles]

Buying a house is a right? Gee and I just bought one 6 months ago. No ID required.

Bank Accounts can be opened on line. No ID required.

Government assistance is given on Cards or direct deposit. No ID required.

But yeah keep trying. I think you should have a government security check to own a firearm.

You didn't need an ID when you bought your house? I bet you did.

[Corp]

I need to show ID when I vote, though since we have universal health care most people just use their health cards when voting, which is government issued with their photo and address. So all you Yanks need to do is reform your health care system and this problem will go away.

[ninjadude]

You didn't need an ID when you bought your house? I bet you did.

Nope. In fact, that's one of the many myths people have come to believe.

Edited October 1, 2012 by ninjadude

[Wookietim]

It's very simple : In person voter fraud is not a major problem in the US, but if the GOP absolutely has to chew this bone then they consistently choose the wrong time to do it. If they want to enact voter ID laws in this country then the correct time to do it is an off year so the voters have time to get things ready. The wrong time is only a couple months before an election and the wrong way to do it is with laws that are confusing to the point where some people think that they might have ID's but don't.

To enact laws like that in an election year sort of puts on display that this is about voter suppression and not about what the GOP wants to claim it is.

[aztek]

thecnicaly you don't need id to buy a house, your broker\lawer, has all your info, and opening a bank account online also doesn't need id, just ssn. and be sure, before they open account they will run your background check, and will find out everything about you. a lot more than any form of id shows.

Edited October 1, 2012 by aztek

[Wookietim]

thecnicaly you don't need id to buy a house, your broker\lawer, has all your info, and opening a bank account online also doesn't need id, just ssn. and be sure, before they open account they will run your background check, and will find out everything about you. a lot more than any form of id shows.

One little thing... Buying a house is also not a constitutional right. Voting is. Therefore comparing the two is not really a very valid comparison.

[Drayno]

Voting is a right..

A right of US citizens..

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote.

Obama needs the Latino votes to win..

This does not mean that all Latinos are not citizens; the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting..

The immigrants that were made citizens by the Dream Act, by Obama so they can vote for Obama, may have a little difficulty...

If you need an ID, go to the DMV.

Show them your birth certificate, or maybe even your social security card, and you'll be good to go..

Now, if you came here illegally, obtaining an ID should be impossible, unless you go through proper paperwork and become a US citizen, learn about the Presidents, our nation's history, and learn to speak and read English - you know, the basic requirements for becoming a US citizen, regardless of your ethnicity..

The problem isn't illegals wanting to vote.

It's the fact they probably haven't even tried to learn about our nation, so they probably don't even know the requirements..

They don't want to lose their culture, but they demand rights.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Drayno

[Wookietim]

Voting is a right..

A right of US citizens..

If you're not a citizen, you can't vote.

Obama needs the Latino votes to win..

This does not mean that all Latinos are not citizens; the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting..

The immigrants that were made citizens by the Dream Act, by Obama so they can vote for Obama, may have a little difficulty...

"the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting.."

That is where you make a mistake.

When a new law is passed, there is always a period of confusion as to how to conform to that law. Therefore when passing a law like that within a couple months of an election the confusion will cause many people that do have the right to vote to not be able to.

For example - in Pennsylvania right now, what is a valid ID? Because some people have drivers licenses that do not have their photos on them. Some have photos on them but don't have their street address on them (The rural voters for example have only a PO Box number on them as their address). Some think that they need a new ID and may actually need it but may be told that they don't by their next door neighbor... and therefore will be turned away at the polls because of that.

Nope - this smells of voter suppression rather than any valid worry on the side of the GOP when they do this this close to an election.

[Drayno]

"the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting.."

That is where you make a mistake.

When a new law is passed, there is always a period of confusion as to how to conform to that law. Therefore when passing a law like that within a couple months of an election the confusion will cause many people that do have the right to vote to not be able to.

For example - in Pennsylvania right now, what is a valid ID? Because some people have drivers licenses that do not have their photos on them. Some have photos on them but don't have their street address on them (The rural voters for example have only a PO Box number on them as their address). Some think that they need a new ID and may actually need it but may be told that they don't by their next door neighbor... and therefore will be turned away at the polls because of that.

Nope - this smells of voter suppression rather than any valid worry on the side of the GOP when they do this this close to an election.

If they are confused then they should find the necessary information about the laws and what type of ID is valid for voting..

There isn't a problem with being informed and resourceful.. I rather have those voters than ill informed voters..

I had an ID for several years back, no Permit or Driver's License, just a basic ID. You can go to the DMV and ask for a basic ID..

It's not at all confusing.. And if you're worried about not having a picture that fear will be quelled when they ask you not to smile for your photo that goes on the ID card..

Edited October 1, 2012 by Drayno

[Wookietim]

If they are confused then they should find the necessary information about the laws and what type of ID is valid for voting..

There isn't a problem with being informed and resourceful.. I rather have those voters than ill informed voters..

I had an ID for several years back, no Permit or Driver's License, just a basic ID. You can go to the DMV and ask for a basic ID..

It's not at all confusing.. And if you're worried about not having a picture that fear will be quelled when they ask you not to smile for your photo that goes on the ID card..

My Parents live in PA. They went to get a new voter ID and were told by one person at the offices doing that that their drivers license was valid. Then they were told by another person at the same office that their drivers license wasn't enough. Please remember - confusion is not only happening on the side of voters but also on the side of those enforcing that law.

Because it's not just voters that have to figure it out - it's the people that issue the new voter ID's and the people that check them at the voting booths as well as voters. A sane group of politicians doesn't throw a chaos bomb into the middle of the process right before an election if they aren't trying to engage in voter suppression.

[Myles]

"the ones that are citizens should have no problem voting.."

That is where you make a mistake.

When a new law is passed, there is always a period of confusion as to how to conform to that law. Therefore when passing a law like that within a couple months of an election the confusion will cause many people that do have the right to vote to not be able to.

For example - in Pennsylvania right now, what is a valid ID? Because some people have drivers licenses that do not have their photos on them. Some have photos on them but don't have their street address on them (The rural voters for example have only a PO Box number on them as their address). Some think that they need a new ID and may actually need it but may be told that they don't by their next door neighbor... and therefore will be turned away at the polls because of that.

Nope - this smells of voter suppression rather than any valid worry on the side of the GOP when they do this this close to an election.

Drivers licence do not have photos on them in Pen? That is dumb. All drivers lic. should have a photo.

[Myles]

My Parents live in PA. They went to get a new voter ID and were told by one person at the offices doing that that their drivers license was valid. Then they were told by another person at the same office that their drivers license wasn't enough. Please remember - confusion is not only happening on the side of voters but also on the side of those enforcing that law.

Because it's not just voters that have to figure it out - it's the people that issue the new voter ID's and the people that check them at the voting booths as well as voters. A sane group of politicians doesn't throw a chaos bomb into the middle of the process right before an election if they aren't trying to engage in voter suppression.

I don't think there is as much confusion as you are being led to believe.

[MiskatonicGrad]

Voting is a right...

Now, if you came here illegally, obtaining an ID should be impossible, unless you go through proper paperwork and become a US citizen, learn about the Presidents, our nation's history, and learn to speak and read English - you know, the basic requirements for becoming a US citizen, regardless of your ethnicity..

If people who are born U.S. citizens would take alittle time to learn about Presidents, our nation's history(apart from what the goverment teaches you) and reads the founding documents(all of them not just the declaration of independance and constitution) we wouldn't be having debates like this.