New voter I.D. laws

[Wookietim]

I don't think there is as much confusion as you are being led to believe.

Really? Quick - if a Drivers License has a photo but not a street address on it, is it valid? Because so far my relations in PA have been told the full range by officials - that they will work, that they won't and that they will only be good enough to get the voter ID card. And that is from officials - the volunteers at the polls may understand the law differently.

[Babe Ruth]

Today a federal judge ruled PA voters can go without a photo ID.

[Myles]

Today a federal judge ruled PA voters can go without a photo ID.

Bummer

[Babe Ruth]

Does that mean you favor the restriction by the government of fundamental rights, Myles, or am I misreading your position?

[Myles]

Does that mean you favor the restriction by the government of fundamental rights, Myles, or am I misreading your position?

It just means that I don't have a problem with requiring a photo ID to vote.

Beyond the voting, I like the idea that more people would have photo ID's.

[Babe Ruth]

Should photo ID be required in order to enter federal or state parks?

[Myles]

Should photo ID be required in order to enter federal or state parks?

i don't think it would be a horrible thing. When I stay at a hotel I have to show my ID, so if I was camping, I wouldn't mind doing the same.

[Babe Ruth]

I understand that you yourself would not mind it.

I guess my question was more philosophical. Do you think the law should require it?

[Myles]

I understand that you yourself would not mind it.

I guess my question was more philosophical. Do you think the law should require it?

That is a tough question. I understand why people feel the way they do on both sides. Freedom is great and the more you have the better it usually is.

But we also have so many illegals in this country that it is not all bad to limit where they can go. Illegals should not be able to get an ID whereas legals can.

I guess I don't have a good answer.

[F3SS]

Drivers licence do not have photos on them in Pen? That is dumb. All drivers lic. should have a photo.

It is dumb but false. Born and raised here and drivers licenses require your picture. Otherwise, what's the point. Now when you need a new ID you usually get a reminder in the mail, send it in with a check and you get what they call a camera card back in the mail. You simply take that to the DMV and get your picture taken and voila, a shiny new ID with your picture and holograms pops out of a machine.

I don't think there is as much confusion as you are being led to believe.

There isn't. At least en mass. And if you are sooo confused about it just asked the next person you see and I'm sure you'll get a half intelligent answer on what to do.

Bummer

This is what I've heard. The voter ID law passed. However, the deciding judge remained unconvinced that everybody in need would be able to acquire one in time for the elections. So, they say when you go to vote you will be asked for ID but are not required to show ID. The next time around though, ample time shall have been granted. Get an ID or no vote.

[Babe Ruth]

I think the question to be discussed is just exactly what problem does showing a photo ID solve?

Certainly for financial transactions and other specific instances, such an ID is smart and necessary, but for other things, what's the problem to be solved?

As for the voting question, there is no demonstrated problem of people trying to vote under another's name, or vote twice, or things like that. The Republicans seem to MANUFACTURE a problem, but it's more a figment of their imagination than a real life problem.

[Myles]

I think the question to be discussed is just exactly what problem does showing a photo ID solve?

Certainly for financial transactions and other specific instances, such an ID is smart and necessary, but for other things, what's the problem to be solved?

As for the voting question, there is no demonstrated problem of people trying to vote under another's name, or vote twice, or things like that. The Republicans seem to MANUFACTURE a problem, but it's more a figment of their imagination than a real life problem.

I tend to agree with you on this. There really is not a huge problem with voting.

For me, I just like the end result of many more people having photo ID's.

[ninjadude]

so only the driving public should be able to vote?

[Myles]

so only the driving public should be able to vote?

Why do you say that?

[+and-then]

I think the question to be discussed is just exactly what problem does showing a photo ID solve?

Certainly for financial transactions and other specific instances, such an ID is smart and necessary, but for other things, what's the problem to be solved?

As for the voting question, there is no demonstrated problem of people trying to vote under another's name, or vote twice, or things like that. The Republicans seem to MANUFACTURE a problem, but it's more a figment of their imagination than a real life problem.

I think there is no doubt that vote rigging happens - both sides do it. The real problem as I see it is that asking for an ID isn't excessively intrusive. Considering what's at stake - if confidence is lost in the fairness of the election we're in big trouble. Some here think that the whole process is a sham and maybe they are correct but if the people finally decide to forget that process and take matters into their own hands we will have a real mess on our hands.

[Babe Ruth]

I agree on the vote-rigging thing AND THEN, but voter fraud by way of any voter casting multiple votes is not necessarily "vote-rigging". I guess it's a semantic point?

HBO showed several years ago how Diebold and other of the newer machines could be hijacked and rigged, but that is not really voter fraud, it's fraud by the authorities--those on the inside who control and operate those machines.

Voters attempting multiple votes is virtually unheard of, at least in my experience.

[Michelle]

Dead people voting is a type of election fraud that occurs when the name of a deceased person remains on a state's official list of registered voters and a living person fraudulently casts a ballot in that name.

The extent to which this type of vote fraud occurs is not known. If, after an election, a reporter examines the publicly available list of who voted in the election and finds from other evidence (such as the Social Security Administration's "Death Master File") that there is good reason to believe that some of the names on the list of those who voted are the names of people who are dead, it can be established that "dead people voted." Such painstaking analyses are expensive and cumbersome.

http://www.ballotped...d_people_voting

That wouldn't even account for the people who are homebound or in nursing homes.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Michelle

[+and-then]

I agree on the vote-rigging thing AND THEN, but voter fraud by way of any voter casting multiple votes is not necessarily "vote-rigging". I guess it's a semantic point?

HBO showed several years ago how Diebold and other of the newer machines could be hijacked and rigged, but that is not really voter fraud, it's fraud by the authorities--those on the inside who control and operate those machines.

Voters attempting multiple votes is virtually unheard of, at least in my experience.

Perhaps "rigging" was an inaccurate statement. My point was that both sides have been known to have people vote illegally. Not so much multiple ballots as ineligible voters. If a poll worker wanted to help "fix" an election they could allow voters with no ID to cast ballots under assumed names that are on the list. I think that as long as no expense is required of a citizen, an ID is a minimal security to enhance confidence in our elections. I believe that we are fast approaching a place where the public will really lose confidence in the security of the vote and when people realize they are powerless to change things one way - they start looking for other ways.....

[Socio]

so only the driving public should be able to vote?

Really only tax payers should be allowed to vote since they are the ones paying the salary for the elected but if that were to happen the democrat party would go extinct.

[Socio]

Isn't a driving license necessary for driving? Or a photo ID to conduct general transactions like check cashing? What about passports?

Yes, and these ID's are made so easy to get that if you can't take the time to get one you don't have the time to vote either.

[Socio]

Here is the problem for the US;

http://cis.org/2012-...born-population

Using the latest Census Bureau data from 2010 and 2011, this paper provides a detailed picture of the more than 50 million immigrants (legal and illegal)

That number is probably very conservative and in all likelihood considerably more, but even using the 50 million number if just 25% of them are voting in US elections it is more than enough to decide elections from local all the way to the POTUS. Remember George Bush beat Al Gore by only 543 votes in Florida and could have easily been decided by foreign voters,

We have to do everything possible to make sure only Americans are deciding elections if that means getting an ID then it should be your civic duty to get one or don't vote.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Socio

[ninjadude]

Really only tax payers should be allowed to vote since they are the ones paying the salary for the elected but if that were to happen the democrat party would go extinct.

probably one of the most un-American sentiments I have seen in some time.

[Socio]

Reading this;

http://www.washingto...iled-democrats/

Florida officials are reviewing allegations of voter registration fraud against the state Democratic Party.

The Florida Department of State on Friday confirmed that it has forwarded complaints about voter registration fraud that have been filed against the Democrats, as well as against two groups — the Florida New Majority Education Fund and National Council of La Raza/Democracia USA.

Though the actual fraud has not been disclosed, with the National Council of La Raza/Democracia USA being implicated , it would not be a stretch to assume it involves registering immigrants to vote.

If so then this is exactly why national voter ID is needed.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Socio

[F3SS]

I'd like to revive a dead thread here. I was looking up the Pennsylvania voting ticket and stumbled upon the new PA voter ID laws. The ID law passed. I was under the impression that IDs were not required for this election because the judge remained unconvinced that all voters would not have IDs in time for the election. That's sort of the case. Turns out that all first time voters are required to show proof of identification but not those who have previously cast ballots. Well the point of this post is to show the forms of acceptable ID which are in direct contrast to the difficulties and unfairness of it all according to those opposed. If you're a student, an employee with a badge, an employee with a paycheck, someone with a bank account or someone who receives a government check(likely argued to be the most disenfranchised) you can vote. Most of these things cost zero money. All of these things require an ID to get in the first place anyways. Seems to me that every fair measure has been taking to eliminate every possibility of being disenfranchised. Who doesn't have at east one of these things? Nobody that's going to vote anyways. The biggest burden of voter ID laws seems to be remembering to bring one of these things with you to the polls. So what if you think it's not necessary. In light of this information I say how can it hurt?

http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1174125&mode=2

First-Time Voter

If you’re voting for the first time in an upcoming election, the information below can help you ensure you’re prepared once you arrive at the polls. All voters who appear at a polling place for the first time must show proof of identification. Approved forms of photo identification include:

Pennsylvania driver’s license or PennDOT ID card

ID issued by any Commonwealth agency

ID issued by the U.S. Government

U.S. passport

U.S. Armed Forces ID

Student ID

Employee ID

If you do not have a photo ID, you can use a non-photo identification that includes your name and address. Approved forms of non-photo identification include:

Confirmation issued by the County Voter Registration Office

Non-photo ID issued by the Commonwealth

Non-photo ID issued by the U.S. Government

Firearm permit

Current utility bill

Current bank statement

Current paycheck

Government check

Edited November 2, 2012 by -Mr_Fess-