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Whiteplume

Experiences Change Minds?

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Have you ever had an experience that changed your mind regarding the paranormal? For instance, did you once believe in ghosts, but an event changed your mind? Or, conversely, did you once not believe, but then have a ghostly experience? I'd love to hear your stories.

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Have you ever had an experience that changed your mind regarding the paranormal? For instance, did you once believe in ghosts, but an event changed your mind? Or, conversely, did you once not believe, but then have a ghostly experience? I'd love to hear your stories.

I'd suspect in one degree or another just about everyone on UM is here because they have had experience/s that they are seeking to find answers or some kind of logic to. If you don't get adequate responses perhaps you can ask a moderator to send this to the paranormal section and maybe get more answers there. :)

SINcerely,

:devil:

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Every experience a person has, every day, evolves their understanding of their world them selves and their relationship with their world. "Big" experiences make big changes but minor ones make minor and cumulative ones. At this point in time, every one of us is a product of our life experiences, combined with how we have chosen to interpret those experiences.

If you go back through a number of the forums you will find many examples of what you seek; from angels and demons, to ghosts and goblins. My life has seen many different experiences The one which brought me to UM seeking knowledge was the opening of a doorway in the sky which swept down, through, and around me, on a dark moonless night.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=54835&hl=

Edited by Mr Walker
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Hmm .. I Did Not Have An Experience Per Se, But Over The Years I've Started Believing More And More That Demons/ Poltergeists And Such Are Simply Projections From Our Own Mind ..

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Actually, I haven't. I've had no paranormal experiences of any kind, a bit disappointing in my book but it's why I'm a skeptic I suppose. I don't disagree about these things, since there's no proof either way, it's the reason I usually stay out of topics about ghosts and psychics. Since I haven't experienced anything first hand and many people have, I can't argue with them, wouldn't be fair on either end of the argument.

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I've seen some strange things in my day, but the more I learned the more I realized that the things I had seen had natural explanations.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1

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I think it is more important to understand why we have a need to believe or not to believe.

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I have never had an paranormal experience and neither do I believe in them .I think the people that claim to have had them are highly susceptible types

fullywired

Edited by fullywired

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I have never had an paranormal experience and neither do I believe in them .I think the people that claim to have had them are highly susceptible types

fullywired

Highly susceptible types....what do you mean?

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Highly susceptible types....what do you mean?

Highly impressionable types If you like it better

fullywired

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Highly impressionable types If you like it better

fullywired

Well I disagree. I've experienced poltergeist activity and I'm not 'highly impressionable'. I guess seeing is believing, maybe one day you'll see something that will change your mind!

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Highly impressionable types If you like it better

fullywired

Hahahaha

that's funny and quite an assumption.

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I've seen some strange things in my day, but the more I learned the more I realized that the things I had seen had natural explanations.

The issue here is how one defines natural /supernatural. IMO and experience everythng is natural ie connected to, and a part of, a wider nature but when we dont know or cant see the connections, we label things supernatural.

For example, as an extreme example, "god" is a natural entity and integrated into the whole of nature, just like we are. But we dont know just how, ATM, and so, to some, god seems to stand outside of nature /the natural world and exist as a supernatural entity.

The same with ghosts, poltergeists, telekinesis, clair voyance, mind reading etc These things are somehow a part of, and integrated into, the totality of the real and natural world. We just haven't worked out how, as yet.

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saw a UFO pretty anti climatic tho just flew over and did some kinda weird things but nothing mind blowing, always liked aliens but i never thought they visited earth before that now im questioning alot of things. but im not 100% positive but my experience sways me to the idea that they have visited and are possibly still here.

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I have never had an paranormal experience and neither do I believe in them .I think the people that claim to have had them are highly susceptible types

fullywired

NAturally. But remember, it is your lack of experiences which forms this opinion in you. If you ever have a genuine paranormal encounter you will have to adjust your belief in either your own nature or in the paranormal. (Or attempt to rationalise away what happened.)

I am quite intelligent, as ascertained in a variety of tests and achievements, :innocent: educated in logic, philosophy, psychology, and a social scientist's appreciation for the scientific method; and i can assure you that there exist very real and physical manifestions and examples of many forms of paranormal/supernatural "things and events".

They are not created in a person's mind, but are a physical manifestion of the natural order. It wouldnt matter how suggestible you were. You could encounter one as real/physically, as encountering a cat or a dog, because they hold independent existence..

Of course there are also many and common ones caused by mental disorders, suggestion , human's tendency to see patterns where non exist and to create meaning from coincidences. But it is not an either or situation. There are exampes of both.

While you are "encounter free" you are also free to chose belief or disbelief, and it is perhaps more rational to chose disbelief in that situation. A real encounter negates that freedom.

But it is dangerous and illogical just to assume that, being encounter free means no such things exist.

Edited by Mr Walker

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I think it is more important to understand why we have a need to believe or not to believe.

Precisely. Wouldn't it be better to THINK rather than merely "believe"?

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Precisely. Wouldn't it be better to THINK rather than merely "believe"?

There is little connection between an ability or choice ot think and belief IN terms of exclusivity Belief can be a consequence of deep and critical thinking. One deep and critical thinker can chose belief while another can chose disbelief.

Belief and disbelief are conditions/choices which can only exist /be made, in the spaces where knowledge is absent or insufficient. In those spaces both are of equal 'value" in a way. In such a cognitive space IMO, the most important thing is weighing up the physical results /consequences of belief /disbelief.

Because spiritual belief almost always produces more measurable physical benefits than a lack of belief, i always recommend belief, in spiritual matters. In non spiritual matters such as the existence of boson paricles, multi braned universes or the constancy of gravity, one can use other criteria to select belief/disbelief, but in spiritual matters the action of chosing belief confers measured and measurable psychological and physical benefits in its very choice, and in the actions we take, predicated on those beliefs.

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Thoughts can easily change if one has acquired new information whereas beliefs almost NEVER change despite being presented with overwhelming evidence. Plain and simple.

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Thoughts can easily change if one has acquired new information whereas beliefs almost NEVER change despite being presented with overwhelming evidence. Plain and simple.

I disagree. A belief cannot logically and rationally be held in the face of overwhelming evidence. The point is what one considers overwhelming evidence.

Different people require differnt standards of proof. Also, individuals posses varying degres of knolwedge and understanding. So, for me, evolution iss a proven fact based on my education and standards of proof. All the evidences available to me, point to it. My wife is a very intelligent but not very "educated" person and she finds more evidence for creation than for evolution Man yof the evidences available to me to make a decison are simply not "available" to her.

This is because lacking sufficient educatio in these areas, she is not capable of understanding or appreciating biology chemistry or general science to a level to know any different. To accpet these evidences she would have to believe the opinons of others, and that is not acceptable to her, compared with her faith in, knowedge of, and understanding about god.

I know many people in the same situation To utilise evidences effectively requires a complex inter locking set of knowledge and thought processes. Most people dont have this; they either accept creation or evolution based on what they are told by others eg schools experts etc. Few modern people have the slightest idea about evoutionary process, but they accept it because they have faith in science and it is taught to them from childhood as fact .

Nothing wrong with that, but they dont have any better rationale for believing in evolution than a person educated in childhood that god is the creator, does. They are basicallylly accepting what they are taught by others, and what is the staus quo . Oh sure, evolution is the correct model, but that is not why people accept it.

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Thoughts can easily change if one has acquired new information whereas beliefs almost NEVER change despite being presented with overwhelming evidence. Plain and simple.

So, if this is true, why don't most adults still believe in father christmas?

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I disagree. A belief cannot logically and rationally be held in the face of overwhelming evidence. The point is what one considers overwhelming evidence.

The exact reason why I can't believe in the Christian god. Honestly wasn't by choice it just happened. Ghosts same thing. Didn't believe in them at first had an incident now I do... sort of. (if what did happen didn't I wouldn't believe, but I would still disbelieve most stories I hear). Honestly it would of been a lot easier on my life if I could of kept a belief in God but I couldn't because honestly it wasn't a choice for me. If the information I find later on points to a different conclusion then my beliefs will change accordingly.

This is a good place to read about beliefs and how we form them.

http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyepistemology/a/BeliefChoice.htm

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The exact reason why I can't believe in the Christian god. Honestly wasn't by choice it just happened. Ghosts same thing. Didn't believe in them at first had an incident now I do... sort of. (if what did happen didn't I wouldn't believe, but I would still disbelieve most stories I hear). Honestly it would of been a lot easier on my life if I could of kept a belief in God but I couldn't because honestly it wasn't a choice for me. If the information I find later on points to a different conclusion then my beliefs will change accordingly.

This is a good place to read about beliefs and how we form them.

http://atheism.about...eliefChoice.htm

I dont believe or disnelieve in anything much except where i chose to. Like i chose to believe my wife loves me. I cant get in her head to make sure but she says she does and she acts like she does. Nonetheless, basically i have to chose to believe she does, or not. It works a lot better if I chose to believe she does. So I do. Unless you have convinvcing evidence that god does not exist, then you always have a choice to believe or disbelieve, but of course how and why you choose, is up to you, as it should be. Perahps you find it very hard tp choose belief In the absence of evidence. That is natural but it is not impossible to chose belief in the absence of evidences..

I'll check out the site but i actually study (As an amateur) the formation of belief in human beings as a factual scientific subject. It is fascinating how the human mind works.

Edited by Mr Walker

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That wouldn't be choosing to believe that be choosing not to see what is in front of your face pretty much playing willfully ignorant to the evidence at hand. Belief requires reasons. It is those reasons that make us believe in something not choice.

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For example, as an extreme example, "god" is a natural entity and integrated into the whole of nature, just like we are. But we dont know just how, ATM, and so, to some, god seems to stand outside of nature /the natural world and exist as a supernatural entity.

And what evidence do you have to reinforce this claim, my friend? To any self-respecting individual, god is a fairy tale. You make this statement as if it were a fact, so I am asking you for evidence to reinforce such a claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

As an individual whom has observed your behaviour over time, your validation for such beliefs will most likely come down to "I know from experience", which is simply ridiculous as most of what people label as "unexplainable" typically does have a mundane, logical explanation... they just choose to ignore the facts. You are not the only one, either. I have observed many individuals whom dodge my question for evidence that indicate, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the god's existence is irrefutable, out of fear of being "mocked", "ridiculed", etc.

You also have a tendency to attribute scientifically unexplainable events to the works of "god".

Edited by Alienated Being

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