Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1
Whiteplume

Experiences Change Minds?

98 posts in this topic

That wouldn't be choosing to believe that be choosing not to see what is in front of your face pretty much playing willfully ignorant to the evidence at hand. Belief requires reasons. It is those reasons that make us believe in something not choice.

Actually belief doesnt require any reasons pertaining to evidences. Beliefs flourish in the absence of knowledge and evidences. Certainly, humans require reasons to believe but that can be as ample as believing makes them feel better or takes their pain away or it can be as complex as the human minds need to make sense from chaos in any way available to it.

Humans are conditioned into belief by the way our brains work. This has been observed in children around the world. Humans attribute intelligent purpose to any thing which appears to have a pattern or purpose ie they individually create god concepts at a very young age to explain things they observe happening and have no/inadequate data to explain.

Everyone CHOOSES to believe or disbelieve. The only way a person can arrive at a belief or disbelief is through a process of choice. Belief can only be logically, rationally, and usefully formed, in the area of what is unknown, because it cannot be formed or held, in the area of things we know. Ie if i believe i can breathe underwater, i will soon be disabused of that belief when I try to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Humans are conditioned into belief by the way our brains work. This has been observed in children around the world. Humans attribute intelligent purpose to any thing which appears to have a pattern or purpose ie they individually create god concepts at a very young age to explain things they observe happening and have no/inadequate data to explain.

I would not go so far as to say that children formulate "god" concepts at a very young age - however, I believe they do question at a very young age. The scientific study pertaining to the children observed to formulate a belief in "god" is simply ridiculous, in my opinion, simply because a child's mind is like a sponge, as in it absorbs everything. These children could have picked the "god concept" up from one of their parents, another child at a play date, hearing it on the street, hearing it in the grocery store while their mother pushed them in a cart, swimming at the beach, etc. There are so many variables that could have contributed to the formation of these "concepts".

As I said, children question things that they do not understand; however, to say that they are born with a "god concept" ingrained in their minds is absolutely ludicrous.

Everyone CHOOSES to believe or disbelieve. The only way a person can arrive at a belief or disbelief is through a process of choice. Belief can only be logically, rationally, and usefully formed, in the area of what is unknown, because it cannot be formed or held, in the area of things we know. Ie if i believe i can breathe underwater, i will soon be disabused of that belief when I try to.

You can believe in anything you want - but that does not make the elements of the belief true.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And what evidence do you have to reinforce this claim, my friend? To any self-respecting individual, god is a fairy tale. You make this statement as if it were a fact, so I am asking you for evidence to reinforce such a claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

As an individual whom has observed your behaviour over time, your validation for such beliefs will most likely come down to "I know from experience", which is simply ridiculous as most of what people label as "unexplainable" typically does have a mundane, logical explanation... they just choose to ignore the facts. You are not the only one, either. I have observed many individuals whom dodge my question for evidence that indicate, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the god's existence is irrefutable, out of fear of being "mocked", "ridiculed", etc.

You also have a tendency to attribute scientifically unexplainable events to the works of "god".

Been over this before. I am a very self respecting individual, and highly respected in all parts of the communities in which i live, so that little put down doesnt wash with me.

In my life god is as real, physical, and factual, as my wife and my dog. It exists within the common, shared, and physical real world just as they do, and interacts with me in that world much as they do. If any of those three entities touch me i feel them. If any of them speak to me, I hear them of they are in my sight i can see them. If I talk to them they respond. When they move through the environment they all leave traces. And the evidences for god are the same as for my wife and my dog.

What you want is transferrable evidence that i can present to you to convince you. Not my job. Not my concern. I have no need or really desire to prove anything to you, or anyone else. I dont feel a need to prove the existence of my wife or of my dog or of my god all are self evidently real. Because of your position vis a vis me, it is almost impossible to prove anything to you. I can't get in your head and share my knowledge with you and you will chose not to believe me when i communicate like this. My concern is my life my sanity and well being and my own relationship with the world around me.

But to satisfy your curiousity The evidences for god are physical; sight, sound, touch, manipulation of my inner and exterior environments If i had a camera when god appeared i think his image would appear on the camera But of course al you would see would be a picture of a two meter tall pillar of light or a very hadsome young man in an aexpensive suit Unless oyu are along side me you dont get to observe the contextual evidences tha tgo with such encounters And while you would hea rthe voice of god whenhe speaks to me through anothe rperson or an angel or via a radio you wont get to hear his voice inside oyur head . You wont get to feel the things i fel or know the things i know Because you cant until it happens to you When it does come and tell me how oyu will prove it to me

Of course god is mundane. It is just as mundane as my wife or dog, which is why the evidences for them all are very similar. And of course i know from experience. The only way a human knows anything is from experiences, and from processing those experiences using their mind.

I have posted many times the physical evidences and proofs for god that have occured in my life .You are wlecome to look them up and try your best to rationalise them away.

My god is sapient, real, physical and a natural part of the universe around me. It is protective of me, loving, caring, compassionate, and with a cosmic sense of humour.

It seems to enjoy our relationship as much as i do, even though I think I gain far more from the relationship than god does. God enjoys teaching, mentoring, helping, and ongoing communication with people, especially those who are open to him, take his advice, and use it to grow and enhance themselves. God not only protects and heals me but he educates me and teaches me. He empowers me with many things, and allows me to access his universal consciousness to learn, experience, and enjoy the wonders of the universe.

I am impervious to mockery or ridicule. They usualy (and sadly) come fromm peole who are either afraid or want to belittle another to make themselves feel better, because inside themsleves is a feeling of their own inadequacy.

I am a part of god, and a part of god dwells within me. I can't feel mockery or ridicule, and generally it makes me either smile or feel sad for people when they try and use it.

I never have a need to put another down, or belittle another person. In part because i am totally comfortable with my self. Also I try to model god, who is a creator and a builder of people. By profession a teacher, part of my job is to build young people up, to empower them, strengthen them, teach them, help them, protect them and encourage them. I take a lot from what god has taught me and apply it to building the young people i teach.

God is a fairy tale to you. To me god is an integral, real, physical part of my inner and outer environments. And because that is real and true, no one can mock it, and i can be completely self respecting in asserting it. i can rely on god every minute of every day, to guide me, mentor me, strengthen and empower me; to transform me from a mere material being into what man is meant to be. A part of the divine.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not go so far as to say that children formulate "god" concepts at a very young age - however, I believe they do question at a very young age. The scientific study pertaining to the children observed to formulate a belief in "god" is simply ridiculous, in my opinion, simply because a child's mind is like a sponge, as in it absorbs everything. These children could have picked the "god concept" up from one of their parents, another child at a play date, hearing it on the street, hearing it in the grocery store while their mother pushed them in a cart, swimming at the beach, etc. There are so many variables that could have contributed to the formation of these "concepts".

As I said, children question things that they do not understand; however, to say that they are born with a "god concept" ingrained in their minds is absolutely ludicrous.

You can believe in anything you want - but that does not make the elements of the belief true.

You might be interested in reading about this. I just happen to have on my desk an issue of the new scientist which takes the latest scientific studies and conclusions about many of these things and presents/discusses them. It is the 17th march 2012 edition. Basically british based i think, although my copy is published in australia. It is headlined, "The GOD Issue."

Beliefs have nothing to do with truth. Some beliefs turn out to be true, some do not. Is the higgs boson particle a fact? Is gravity a universal constant? Is the universe multi braned? People will have different beliefs on these unknown questions. Some peoples' beliefs will later be proven right, others wrong. It is the purpose for, and reasons why, we hold beliefs, which is important.

Critically, children do not have to be taught beliefs or anything about god. As long as they are taught language and consequent ability to think in linguistic symbologies, they WILL create god and beliefs for them selves. It is an inevitable part of every humans thought patterns and how we process information at an early age. This is science not faith. Later they will have to unlearn this and learn to think using other forms of thought patterns.

It is likely that is the neurological reason why, consistently, less than 10% (and closer to 5%) of humans self label as atheists, even in this age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And what evidence do you have to reinforce this claim, my friend? To any self-respecting individual, god is a fairy tale.

Self-respect and respecting others are closely linked, clearly you missed that in such a grossly fallacious and disrespectful statement.

I'm continually amazed at how some people can claim logic, yet be grossly even formally illogical in the same statement. Truly it amazes me.

Edited by Seeker79

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Precisely. Wouldn't it be better to THINK rather than merely "believe"?

OK. I think "paranormal" and "supernatural" phenomena exists because of personal experiences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been over this before. I am a very self respecting individual, and highly respected in all parts of the communities in which i live, so that little put down doesnt wash with me.

In my life god is as real, physical, and factual, as my wife and my dog. It exists within the common, shared, and physical real world just as they do, and interacts with me in that world much as they do. If any of those three entities touch me i feel them. If any of them speak to me, I hear them of they are in my sight i can see them. If I talk to them they respond. When they move through the environment they all leave traces. And the evidences for god are the same as for my wife and my dog.

What you want is transferrable evidence that i can present to you to convince you. Not my job. Not my concern. I have no need or really desire to prove anything to you, or anyone else. I dont feel a need to prove the existence of my wife or of my dog or of my god all are self evidently real. Because of your position vis a vis me, it is almost impossible to prove anything to you. I can't get in your head and share my knowledge with you and you will chose not to believe me when i communicate like this. My concern is my life my sanity and well being and my own relationship with the world around me.

But to satisfy your curiousity The evidences for god are physical; sight, sound, touch, manipulation of my inner and exterior environments If i had a camera when god appeared i think his image would appear on the camera But of course al you would see would be a picture of a two meter tall pillar of light or a very hadsome young man in an aexpensive suit Unless oyu are along side me you dont get to observe the contextual evidences tha tgo with such encounters And while you would hea rthe voice of god whenhe speaks to me through anothe rperson or an angel or via a radio you wont get to hear his voice inside oyur head . You wont get to feel the things i fel or know the things i know Because you cant until it happens to you When it does come and tell me how oyu will prove it to me

Of course god is mundane. It is just as mundane as my wife or dog, which is why the evidences for them all are very similar. And of course i know from experience. The only way a human knows anything is from experiences, and from processing those experiences using their mind.

I have posted many times the physical evidences and proofs for god that have occured in my life .You are wlecome to look them up and try your best to rationalise them away.

My god is sapient, real, physical and a natural part of the universe around me. It is protective of me, loving, caring, compassionate, and with a cosmic sense of humour.

It seems to enjoy our relationship as much as i do, even though I think I gain far more from the relationship than god does. God enjoys teaching, mentoring, helping, and ongoing communication with people, especially those who are open to him, take his advice, and use it to grow and enhance themselves. God not only protects and heals me but he educates me and teaches me. He empowers me with many things, and allows me to access his universal consciousness to learn, experience, and enjoy the wonders of the universe.

I am impervious to mockery or ridicule. They usualy (and sadly) come fromm peole who are either afraid or want to belittle another to make themselves feel better, because inside themsleves is a feeling of their own inadequacy.

I am a part of god, and a part of god dwells within me. I can't feel mockery or ridicule, and generally it makes me either smile or feel sad for people when they try and use it.

I never have a need to put another down, or belittle another person. In part because i am totally comfortable with my self. Also I try to model god, who is a creator and a builder of people. By profession a teacher, part of my job is to build young people up, to empower them, strengthen them, teach them, help them, protect them and encourage them. I take a lot from what god has taught me and apply it to building the young people i teach.

God is a fairy tale to you. To me god is an integral, real, physical part of my inner and outer environments. And because that is real and true, no one can mock it, and i can be completely self respecting in asserting it. i can rely on god every minute of every day, to guide me, mentor me, strengthen and empower me; to transform me from a mere material being into what man is meant to be. A part of the divine.

Lately I've been wondering if what we call God IS the natural world we live in. I know Native Americans and other indigenous people believe Mother Earth is sacred, but I've always thought of it in terms of it being part of the dominion of God, instead of God itself. One of the things I like and respect about you Mr. Walker, is your restraint from name-calling and insults, both covert & overt. I think there are a lot of people who would just like to hold their beliefs quietly, without being attacked or ridiculed by those who believe differently. When I see or hear these kinds of attacks, it's a signal for me that communication and exchange of ideas has ended.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you ever had an experience that changed your mind regarding the paranormal? For instance, did you once believe in ghosts, but an event changed your mind? Or, conversely, did you once not believe, but then have a ghostly experience? I'd love to hear your stories.

For me the experiences lead to the curiosity of finding the truth of what ever the subject. I don't believe in anything until it thrown in face and then I do a lot of speculation. Life is full of mysteries to be reconciled with each other and UM is an excellent source of finding people to share every kind of subject and expand your perception of what is the reality of it.

This is my story of how the mystical part of life started to make me interested in the unexplained. I've witnessed other things far more mysterious in the physical world to me then the ghostly phenomenons but I will share my ghostly beginnings aspect since you asked about ghosts. It did change my whole view on life as I try to solve the other mysteries.

I was about 4 when my apparently healthy but very old great grandfather died suddenly. It was my first experience of a family death and I got told the usual he's in heaven thing. I cried because I thought I'd never see him again and I was told I was too young to go see him at the service and it was during my bedtime. But I dreamed I was there! I saw his body and people there and he was floating above with me like a shiny version of himself. I saw something or someone else there with us like a beautiful colorful shining star. He told me not to cry that dead people aren't really dead they just change back into what they really are and there's different places they can go. He told me I could go to places while alive in the same way although most people don't do it until they die. I asked what the star thing was and he told me it was an angel. I told my family and my grandmother told me it would be better not to tell people about my dream and that God works in mysterious ways.

My next experience with a death of a loved one was my grandfather when I was 7. No one suspected he died because he was still younger. That deceased grandfather never came to me in any dreams but SOMETHING came in real life told me about him.

I saw a mistlike thing with really weird dark big eyes while playing in a wood pile in the woods and being a kid I thought- neat it's a Casper or something! I started questioning him and he didn't answer my questions and I got scared. Then it "spoke" to me in thought and said he was my grandad's father that I never knew. He told me he came because it was important for me to tell my dad that my grandfather was dead. I always believed in a land of the dead as I called it where I saw my great grandfather in my dream but I didn't know they could come to us while awake -double neat!!! I ran home and told my mother. She called my grandfather's house, no answer, then the neighbors, then the police since the neighbors said they didn't see him and he was supposed to be home. Dad got off early and we went to my grandfather's house. He had been dead for three days, yuk! That was the proof I needed for myself that some if not all people don't really die like most grownups understand it happens. I knew in my heart, my grandfather was never really that horrible, stinky yukky thing stuck to the floor but it was only a body something like a broken robot!

I was really young but that was the day when I truly became devoted to understand life, death and the those other places or connections that somehow exist beyond the understanding of modern science or religions.

As I got older I became skeptical of my own belief system, mainly because I was exposed to more science as well as a vast variety of religious doctrines. I always try to analyze events for more then face value.

Was is it just a manifestation of some kind of telepathy of subconscious or group subconscious that comes to you in a way that you understand?

Some religious views would say it was a demon since it said it was my great grandfather and the dead are dead?

Was that misty form with really big eyes actually what some people call aliens?

Was I just delusional and the message being true was just a coincidence?

I was really young but that was first day when I began a quest to try understand life, death and the those other places or connections that somehow exist beyond the understanding of modern science and religions.

Many years later, I lost my other grandfather. I was closer to him than anyone and I was devestated. He had a long lingering death and I wasn't at his side when it happened. I felt so guilty I wasn't there and would be so alone without him. Just before his funeral when I was crying I saw him but transparent, younger and healthy and he spoke very quickly and disappeared. Don't cry, it's ok ...and for crying out loud you have to tell your mother, "There are other people here". I was surprised and confused, I thought I've just lost my sanity for sure!

I reluctly told my mother after the funeral at her house. She cried in happiness and started jumping up and down saying "My God he did it this is wonderful!" She told him to give her that message of those exact words if he could to let her know for certain that people live after death. He agreed. She said they were doing a Houdini like experiment with a message what ever that is. She wanted to know if he was able to reunite with her beloved Grandma and Uncle so she could rest assured in seeing them again too...... Only my mother would ask a dying man to speak a certain phrase into a tape recorder after death after watching some stupid psychic show to prove something to her! He obviously couldn't do the message through the recording but came to me with it. My dad just said, "Thank God. Now we can turn off that damnedable tape recorder instead of me getting up in the middle of the night to rewind and listen to bunch of blank tape!" I laughed and my dad just said to my mom "See I told you, you don't need a tape to know the answer to that!"

I believe that it was my grandad but on still the skeptic side of things I can't test it to prove it. Could have been a telepathic connection from my dad in some way so he could shut off a tape recorder for good? LOL

My grandad has came to me in dreams after that but usually years apart. It's like stupid dreams suddenly end/ or no dreams then suddenly I am in that other world and he's there. We can talk, walk, float, change what we look like, he even showed me his first car with a rumble seat. We meet other people and we have fun but then it always ends up the same. By the same, he gives a message of advise on how to deal with a tragedy, death or something that just happened that I didn't know about.

The dreams are always come a few days before the event in the message except once. That happened at the same time as the dream. I really wanted to stay in that dream place but Grandpa told me that my mom's beloved dog was having a heart attack and would die -call her NOW if you don't she will die too! I saw the dog with my granddad in the end of the dream. I woke up and called her. My dad answered, the dog just died as I was on the phone. Mom was hysterical and having a heart attack but wouldn't go to the hospital. I told my dad to tell her I just saw Grandpa and the dog is with him and his message of advise -dogs can go to heaven too! She had just freaked to my dad about not knowing if animals died permenently and gave herself a small heart attack while the dog was dying. She finally went to the hospital after she calmed down some. She was getting worse and worse and wouldn't listen to my dad at all. She only calmed down after my call. I think she would have had a much worse heart attack if I didn't call like my Grandpa told me.

I have dreams with my grandmother and strangers too but it's always that same world and when your in it and most of the people are deceased although sometimes one will say I'm like you. Its like you wake up in another reality you go to sleep there and wake up in. I noticed there can be buildings and things there like here but they are different because it's like the people there can make the enviroment appear as what they want it to be. People there can even teach each others what they know and just like my grandad showed me his first car -poof-see it first hand and sit in it! Awesome!!!

My grandmother had a near death experience when she was young. When she was in her 90's she told me she was ready and wanted to go back there to stay and told me all this stuff I needed to know if she is gone...I didn't believe she'd die but she died in her sleep that night with a BIG smile on her face and looked beautiful when I came to see her the next morning. I never saw anyone die naturally that way they said her heart just stopped even though she was healthy. She went to sleep in that dream place and stayed there just like she said. I truly think this is what's meant by the kiss of God.

She came to me in dreams more than my Grandad ever did. Probably because she still worries about the whole world not just family :)

Whatever ghosts really are they do come to people in the physical world as well, which when you have others present that witness the same thing it is much more interesting to try to explain it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I disagree. I've experienced poltergeist activity and I'm not 'highly impressionable'. I guess seeing is believing, maybe one day you'll see something that will change your mind!

By the sounds of it you fit the criteria

fullywired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been over this before. I am a very self respecting individual, and highly respected in all parts of the communities in which i live, so that little put down doesnt wash with me.

It is not a put-down. I simply do not believe that any self-respecting individual can possibly subject themselves to such fantastical beliefs.

In my life god is as real, physical, and factual, as my wife and my dog. It exists within the common, shared, and physical real world just as they do, and interacts with me in that world much as they do. If any of those three entities touch me i feel them. If any of them speak to me, I hear them of they are in my sight i can see them. If I talk to them they respond. When they move through the environment they all leave traces. And the evidences for god are the same as for my wife and my dog.

If this "god" character that you speak of exists in the same realm as your wife and your dog, then perhaps may I suggest seeking counseling? Honestly. I am not trying to belittle you and denigrate you in any way, shape or form... but if this being is as physical as you are claiming, then perhaps a psyche evaluation is in need.

What you want is transferrable evidence that i can present to you to convince you. Not my job. Not my concern. I have no need or really desire to prove anything to you, or anyone else.

Well, that depends - if you don't want to appear as a fool, then evidence most-definitely is required. You cannot say that he is as real as you and me, then turn around and provide not a shred of evidence for it. That equates to me saying "I have a daily conversation with a unicorn, and it is as real as you and me; however, I do not have any transferable evidence to reinforce my claims."

Before you turn around and say that "God" and unicorns are not the same, yes they are - both have dedicated communities, both have people who worship them, both have communities that claim to have felt the presence of these things. There is no difference, in terms of the belief involved.

I dont feel a need to prove the existence of my wife or of my dog or of my god all are self evidently real.

Self-evidently real... to you, apparently. As I said, if these beings are as real as you say they are to you, you need to seek psychiatric evaluation.

Because of your position vis a vis me, it is almost impossible to prove anything to you. I can't get in your head and share my knowledge with you and you will chose not to believe me when i communicate like this. My concern is my life my sanity and well being and my own relationship with the world around me.

Clearly your sanity is the least of your concerns, my friend.

But to satisfy your curiousity The evidences for god are physical; sight, sound, touch, manipulation of my inner and exterior environments If i had a camera when god appeared i think his image would appear on the camera But of course al you would see would be a picture of a two meter tall pillar of light or a very hadsome young man in an aexpensive suit Unless oyu are along side me you dont get to observe the contextual evidences tha tgo with such encounters

If the evidences for god are physical, then explain to me why no empirical evidence exists to reinforce its physicality?

And while you would hea rthe voice of god whenhe speaks to me through anothe rperson or an angel or via a radio you wont get to hear his voice inside oyur head . You wont get to feel the things i fel or know the things i know Because you cant until it happens to you When it does come and tell me how oyu will prove it to me

This appears to be the result of schizophrenia, my friend.

Of course god is mundane. It is just as mundane as my wife or dog, which is why the evidences for them all are very similar. And of course i know from experience. The only way a human knows anything is from experiences, and from processing those experiences using their mind.

As I said, if god is so physical and mundane, how come there has never been any conclusive scientific research the show that god exists? Anything that is physical can be measured, so why has it not been measured?..

My god is sapient, real, physical and a natural part of the universe around me. It is protective of me, loving, caring, compassionate, and with a cosmic sense of humour.

Okay, well... what about Zeus, Apollo, Gaia? Do those gods exist? Can they exist, or do you just believe in one god? If only one god, then how come only that one god? Why can you not believe in other gods?

It seems to enjoy our relationship as much as i do, even though I think I gain far more from the relationship than god does. God enjoys teaching, mentoring, helping, and ongoing communication with people, especially those who are open to him, take his advice, and use it to grow and enhance themselves. God not only protects and heals me but he educates me and teaches me. He empowers me with many things, and allows me to access his universal consciousness to learn, experience, and enjoy the wonders of the universe.

No, this "god" does not enjoy teaching you anything - it is what you learn as a part of your personal experiences with the physical, natural realm... not from trials that are purportedly given to you by "god".

God is a fairy tale to you. To me god is an integral, real, physical part of my inner and outer environments. And because that is real and true, no one can mock it, and i can be completely self respecting in asserting it. i can rely on god every minute of every day, to guide me, mentor me, strengthen and empower me; to transform me from a mere material being into what man is meant to be. A part of the divine.

No, "god" is a fairy tale - period. I think you should take my advice, and seek counseling. If anybody were to come to you and say that a 20-foot lizard that only they could see was providing them with all of the experiences that you are saying that "God" is providing you with, you would tell them to do the exact same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not a put-down. I simply do not believe that any self-respecting individual can possibly subject themselves to such fantastical beliefs.

If this "god" character that you speak of exists in the same realm as your wife and your dog, then perhaps may I suggest seeking counseling? Honestly. I am not trying to belittle you and denigrate you in any way, shape or form... but if this being is as physical as you are claiming, then perhaps a psyche evaluation is in need.

Well, that depends - if you don't want to appear as a fool, then evidence most-definitely is required. You cannot say that he is as real as you and me, then turn around and provide not a shred of evidence for it. That equates to me saying "I have a daily conversation with a unicorn, and it is as real as you and me; however, I do not have any transferable evidence to reinforce my claims."

Before you turn around and say that "God" and unicorns are not the same, yes they are - both have dedicated communities, both have people who worship them, both have communities that claim to have felt the presence of these things. There is no difference, in terms of the belief involved.

Self-evidently real... to you, apparently. As I said, if these beings are as real as you say they are to you, you need to seek psychiatric evaluation.

Clearly your sanity is the least of your concerns, my friend.

If the evidences for god are physical, then explain to me why no empirical evidence exists to reinforce its physicality?

This appears to be the result of schizophrenia, my friend.

As I said, if god is so physical and mundane, how come there has never been any conclusive scientific research the show that god exists? Anything that is physical can be measured, so why has it not been measured?..

Okay, well... what about Zeus, Apollo, Gaia? Do those gods exist? Can they exist, or do you just believe in one god? If only one god, then how come only that one god? Why can you not believe in other gods?

No, this "god" does not enjoy teaching you anything - it is what you learn as a part of your personal experiences with the physical, natural realm... not from trials that are purportedly given to you by "god".

No, "god" is a fairy tale - period. I think you should take my advice, and seek counseling. If anybody were to come to you and say that a 20-foot lizard that only they could see was providing them with all of the experiences that you are saying that "God" is providing you with, you would tell them to do the exact same thing.

In defense of Mr Walker and you being so harsh.

Fighting over what god is like the old story of blind men arguing with each other what the elephant was because they each touched only a part of the elephant. One that felt the trunk thought he was a snake, etc. They all were right, not lying, and not crazy ..... but they just didn't have the sight to see the whole truth of what the elephant really was.

The word God means different things to different people and religions put too much politics into their concepts. When we reject religions as infallable truth we cleanse ourselves of misconceptions and experience the real truth.

The God Mr Walker speaks of is evident in himself, nature and experiences. Seems a lot like the American Indian concept of the great spirit would be more of a direct connection to the force of life that encompasses all manifestations in all demensions of existence. This unifying force exists in everything what ever you name it, it is only by the manifestation it is known and then what it is called that creates all the fierce debates. There are too many misconceptions linked to it. As with everything known, one develops personal beliefs that are not the same unless they are shared by others who had the same experiences.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The God Mr Walker speaks of is evident in himself, nature and experiences. Seems a lot like the American Indian concept of the great spirit would be more of a direct connection to the force of life that encompasses all manifestations in all demensions of existence. This unifying force exists in everything what ever you name it, it is only by the manifestation it is known and then what it is called that creates all the fierce debates. There are too many misconceptions linked to it. As with everything known, one develops personal beliefs that are not the same unless they are shared by others who had the same experiences.

What I am saying is that what Mr Walker experienced most-likely was NOT a god. I see it all too much; people simply can NOT explain something, therefore they resort to using "god" as the cause, because that is what they CHOOSE to believe. That does not make it true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.sorry don't know how I strayed into this section but it is saturday night

fullywired

Edited by fullywired

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am saying is that what Mr Walker experienced most-likely was NOT a god. I see it all too much; people simply can NOT explain something, therefore they resort to using "god" as the cause, because that is what they CHOOSE to believe. That does not make it true.

What I am saying some really weird miraculous stuff does happen and you can't believe just as the persons witnessing it can't believe it until it happens to you and that is the point I think Mr Walker was trying to make. That is his God.

he may have experienced something like this ....

You don't have enough money to pay a utility bill and all of a sudden in the middle of the room is old cash in the exact amount you'll need even though you didn't know what the bill would be .....how do you explain it?

If you're religious you say god did a miracle, or an angel whatever you believe in and you say THANK YOU GOD!

Did someone come in and place it there even though the doors are locked and your family was home?

Very physical evidence and a very weird something happened but it's still like the blind men arguing about the elephant LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lately I've been wondering if what we call God IS the natural world we live in. I know Native Americans and other indigenous people believe Mother Earth is sacred, but I've always thought of it in terms of it being part of the dominion of God, instead of God itself. One of the things I like and respect about you Mr. Walker, is your restraint from name-calling and insults, both covert & overt. I think there are a lot of people who would just like to hold their beliefs quietly, without being attacked or ridiculed by those who believe differently. When I see or hear these kinds of attacks, it's a signal for me that communication and exchange of ideas has ended.

I am a christian by cutural choice and a deist via knowledge Thus i could "worship" god in any form and indeed respect all positive/constructive relationships with god.

There has long been a theological debate about the nature of god vis a vis if it is pantheist or a singular but universal presence. In my experince god is one consciousness but exists in everything.

In a way it is like our mind and our body While the mind has a singular location it is so integrated with tge body that it knows everything the body feels and it controls every action of the body. Sure god is IN; trees, animals, and human beings. In a way the gaeists have it right. Our consciousness is even a part of the universal consciousnes of god and exists within that consciousness after our body dies albeit perhaps only as a sort of artifical intelligence aware only of its once life.

Thus i can go back in time via the universal consciousness and speak with my father as a young man in the nineteen thirties inside the cosmic consciousness. But during his life he had no recall of me doing this. So gods consciousness extends not only across the universe, linking space and minds every where, but it stores, and enables access to, past consciousnesses.

This, at least, is my own personal and lifelong experience and relationship with god/the cosmic consciousness.

Maybe its age and experience but i can't help laughing (gently) at people, then feeling sorry for them, when they attack a person rather than an idea. In my case it is simply counterproductive. I cant be hurt by name calling but it reflects on the name caller in other readers eyes.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about this one read this. This whole belief/believes debate is basically just playing semantics. Beliefs and knowledge go hand and hand. If you screw with the knowledge the beliefs are going to change. Our core beliefs God, Ghosts, whatever are different then just believing in something small like your wife loving you. You have reasons why you believe in God. You had come to the conclusion that he exists for you. That knowledge you have gained is the reason you believe in God. If you came to a different conclusion then your belief of God would be different. Which means you have no choice.

Manipulating knowledge(Accepting, Ignoring, changing) is the only choice when it comes to beliefs.

Believing is an act(Which you would be right) a belief is not(Which I would be right). If I need to explain the difference between nouns, verbs, and the English language......

You were talking about the verb.... I was talking about the noun. Big difference and easily confusing when the word believes is right in the act itself. Again just semantics.

Of course there is also the backfire effect and other things to worry about as well but meh.

Honestly it seems your proving me wrong because I don't believe in a Christian God(Agnostic btw) because even you admit that knowledge and experiences affect beliefs.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am saying some really weird miraculous stuff does happen and you can't believe just as the persons witnessing it can't believe it until it happens to you and that is the point I think Mr Walker was trying to make. That is his God.

So, his god essentially boils down to, "If I can't explain it, it is therefore the doings of god"? That is an extremely defeatist attitude to have. Instead of investigating and trying to find answers, you come to the most simple and irrational conclusion possible?

he may have experienced something like this ....

You don't have enough money to pay a utility bill and all of a sudden in the middle of the room is old cash in the exact amount you'll need even though you didn't know what the bill would be .....how do you explain it?

That is a rather strange example, however... I would explain it as simply overlooking what was already there. For example, have you ever spent an absurd amount of time searching for something, when it was right in front of you the entire time? I do that often, for some reason. I will be looking for my keys, for example, and rearrange everything that is on my dresser in order to look for them. After accepting that I can't find them, I tend to something else, only to return and find that the keys were RIGHT THERE the entire time. Now, a devout Christian would say that god "showed you" the keys, even though a completely rational and logical explanation exists as to why you couldn't find them to begin with.

If you're religious you say god did a miracle, or an angel whatever you believe in and you say THANK YOU GOD!

Did someone come in and place it there even though the doors are locked and your family was home?

No, see my explanation above.

Very physical evidence and a very weird something happened but it's still like the blind men arguing about the elephant LOL

Yes, but my point is that it is IRRATIONAL to attribute such a weird occurrence as being the works of a god. More mundane explanations need to be pursued Even if a rational explanation cannot be found, it is still illogical to assume the works of a god had a role in the event(s) that took place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, his god essentially boils down to, "If I can't explain it, it is therefore the doings of god"? That is an extremely defeatist attitude to have. Instead of investigating and trying to find answers, you come to the most simple and irrational conclusion possible?

That is a rather strange example, however... I would explain it as simply overlooking what was already there. For example, have you ever spent an absurd amount of time searching for something, when it was right in front of you the entire time? I do that often, for some reason. I will be looking for my keys, for example, and rearrange everything that is on my dresser in order to look for them. After accepting that I can't find them, I tend to something else, only to return and find that the keys were RIGHT THERE the entire time. Now, a devout Christian would say that god "showed you" the keys, even though a completely rational and logical explanation exists as to why you couldn't find them to begin with.

No, see my explanation above.

Yes, but my point is that it is IRRATIONAL to attribute such a weird occurrence as being the works of a god. More mundane explanations need to be pursued Even if a rational explanation cannot be found, it is still illogical to assume the works of a god had a role in the event(s) that took place.

No it is not that simple sometimes it takes a long time to face the reality of gods existence.For others it is forced upon them in a flash by gods direct, personal and clear interventions in their lives. I mean when god introduces himself, says he is about to save your life, and then proceeds to do so, what sort of fool would not then know and recognise the existence of god. We can debate the actual name god, and the nature of god, but not his existence. God is jus t a name. I prefer the cosmic/universal consciousness. But god is more familiar to most.

When god is proven real, it is irrational to insist it cannot be.

The example of the money is a good one. God does this for me ALL the time when i have a genuine need for money say to help other people. He just manifests it for me. On the ground, on the floor, in a plastic bag in the boot of my car, or via other instruments. He will tell me to pick certain lotto numbers or play a certain pokie machine and I will win what i need. Or a person will come up to me in the street and say, "god told me to give you this." and hand me money. The biggest amount i got like this was a thousand dollars.

It is NOT irrational when god explains what he is doing, and why, and when there is a clear and logical connection between cause and effect. It is irrational to deny that causality and to look for other explanations merely to continue denial of gods existence. At some time a logical, rational, and sane man, faced with this level of interaction with god, has to accept god's existence no matter how much they may not want to..

God is utterly mundane, once you get to know it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it is not that simple sometimes it takes a long time to face the reality of gods existence.For others it is forced upon them in a flash by gods direct, personal and clear interventions in their lives. I mean when god introduces himself, says he is about to save your life, and then proceeds to do so, what sort of fool would not then know and recognise the existence of god. We can debate the actual name god, and the nature of god, but not his existence. God is jus t a name. I prefer the cosmic/universal consciousness. But god is more familiar to most.

When god is proven real, it is irrational to insist it cannot be.

The example of the money is a good one. God does this for me ALL the time when i have a genuine need for money say to help other people. He just manifests it for me. On the ground, on the floor, in a plastic bag in the boot of my car, or via other instruments. He will tell me to pick certain lotto numbers or play a certain pokie machine and I will win what i need. Or a person will come up to me in the street and say, "god told me to give you this." and hand me money. The biggest amount i got like this was a thousand dollars.

It is NOT irrational when god explains what he is doing, and why, and when there is a clear and logical connection between cause and effect. It is irrational to deny that causality and to look for other explanations merely to continue denial of gods existence. At some time a logical, rational, and sane man, faced with this level of interaction with god, has to accept god's existence no matter how much they may not want to..

God is utterly mundane, once you get to know it.

I know where you are coming from Mr Walker.

God is like a verb depending on the effect of the doing. A Cosmic Consciousness through all manifastations that can not be denied by those who have experienced it. The physical weird unexplained are naturally tried to be explained into reason but deduction proves there is no logical explaination known. When reason does not work there is something else involved. In the case of the money first reasonable explainations are gone, cash was in envelope from a bank with which no one in family had an account. No person knew amount needed yet and no one ever gave to family. Others cannot comprehend a small miracle unless it was experienced first hand.

As my grandmother once said God works in mysterious ways which meant to me people, animals, nature and the other levels of existence even in the mundane. A need answered is caused by cause and effect even if we don't understand the how of it worked. Know matter what you name god it it exists. Idols can be gods, demons, angels, money, science, myth or what ever type an aspect is that is falsly placed in place instead of the whole unifying one aspect that is the whole. Just as one blind man saying the trunk of the elephant is a snake. It is true but it is not the whole truth as perceived by one who can see!

Some people will never understand. But we can learn more of the truth by trying to understand what others have experienced even if it is only an aspect that may have been misinterpreted.

I also think that when this cosmic consciousness communicates with us it creates fascade so we can understand it. A person then connects it to what ever belief system he believes in whether it be Buddah, Jesus or even the mundane world.

Edited by White Unicorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it is not that simple sometimes it takes a long time to face the reality of gods existence.For others it is forced upon them in a flash by gods direct, personal and clear interventions in their lives. I mean when god introduces himself, says he is about to save your life, and then proceeds to do so, what sort of fool would not then know and recognise the existence of god. We can debate the actual name god, and the nature of god, but not his existence. God is jus t a name. I prefer the cosmic/universal consciousness. But god is more familiar to most.

When god is proven real, it is irrational to insist it cannot be.

I attribute that to hallucination. In fact, that reminds me of an event that occurred to me years ago. I went to bed one night, and had a dream of a nurse telling me that I was "becoming very sick; the sickness occurred over night." The following morning, I woke up as sick as a dog, and was admitted to the hospital. Do I attribute this to any divine being, or paranormal/supernatural experience? No. Not at all. I believe that the mind/body relationship is a very powerful thing.

The example of the money is a good one. God does this for me ALL the time when i have a genuine need for money say to help other people. He just manifests it for me. On the ground, on the floor, in a plastic bag in the boot of my car, or via other instruments. He will tell me to pick certain lotto numbers or play a certain pokie machine and I will win what i need. Or a person will come up to me in the street and say, "god told me to give you this." and hand me money. The biggest amount i got like this was a thousand dollars.

Do you honestly expect me to believe you? You should ask "god" for $1 Million to donate to charity. That is a great reason to be given $1 Million dollars so, assuming your god is real, he should have no problem with giving you that amount. He is, after all, the creator of all things.

When you receive the money, I'd like you to make a video of you as you count all of the money that has been given to you.

Also, what disturbs me is how you think "god" would give you, a mere mortal, $1000 to satisfy a personal need, when there are people begging for their lives in intensive care units. You are deluding yourself if you truly believe that "god" favours you over a dying cancer patient.

It is NOT irrational when god explains what he is doing, and why, and when there is a clear and logical connection between cause and effect. It is irrational to deny that causality and to look for other explanations merely to continue denial of gods existence. At some time a logical, rational, and sane man, faced with this level of interaction with god, has to accept god's existence no matter how much they may not want to..

God is utterly mundane, once you get to know it.

"God" is not mundane at all. "God" is simply a mythological construct designed to create order, prevent overpopulation and blanket the concept of death. In doing so, great disorder and misconduct has been created. I am honestly highly encouraging you to consult a therapist. And, I am NOT joking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I attribute that to hallucination. In fact, that reminds me of an event that occurred to me years ago. I went to bed one night, and had a dream of a nurse telling me that I was "becoming very sick; the sickness occurred over night." The following morning, I woke up as sick as a dog, and was admitted to the hospital. Do I attribute this to any divine being, or paranormal/supernatural experience? No. Not at all. I believe that the mind/body relationship is a very powerful thing.

Do you honestly expect me to believe you? You should ask "god" for $1 Million to donate to charity. That is a great reason to be given $1 Million dollars so, assuming your god is real, he should have no problem with giving you that amount. He is, after all, the creator of all things.

When you receive the money, I'd like you to make a video of you as you count all of the money that has been given to you.

Also, what disturbs me is how you think "god" would give you, a mere mortal, $1000 to satisfy a personal need, when there are people begging for their lives in intensive care units. You are deluding yourself if you truly believe that "god" favours you over a dying cancer patient.

"God" is not mundane at all. "God" is simply a mythological construct designed to create order, prevent overpopulation and blanket the concept of death. In doing so, great disorder and misconduct has been created. I am honestly highly encouraging you to consult a therapist. And, I am NOT joking.

I wouldn't attribute it to a divine being either just your subconscious linking in a way for you to comprehend a message. This was a facade created for you to understand.

I don't believe this unifying power favors anyone it is more like a gift to those coming closer to the truth of a mystery and connecting with it somehow. Proving to skeptics who never experienced anything unexplainable in reason, doesn't matter and brings vanity which takes away the gifts because they would be working against the source itself by doing that.

Personal confirmed experience is really the only evidence which always leads to some kind of belief, right or wrong. I may believe you are wrong but I am not going to try to change your belief. There is more than one path that leads to the same destination but sceptics tend to want to destroy the paths of others. Sharing it with others who've had their own wierd experiences is what really matters so we can discover more about the scheme of things.

The people who experience the unexplainable are the people who are just connecting to a source, for whatever reason or how is a mystery in itself and there's nothing really special about people themselves. This force can be harnessed for different effects both good or evil, conscious or subconsciously. That's why religions developed their good and evil dogmas, true or not. The word God is just another way of saying "this is my name for my own personal theory of everything" do I understand all the facets? of course not unless I am connected to the source when asked that.

Sceptics questioning the reality of things are really being helpful to those people who they riducule because the riduculed may be able discover a misconception that they developed their on their part by trying to understand the cause of an effect. All I try to bring to the sceptics is an open mind to discover for themselves the more out there that does exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I attribute that to hallucination. In fact, that reminds me of an event that occurred to me years ago. I went to bed one night, and had a dream of a nurse telling me that I was "becoming very sick; the sickness occurred over night." The following morning, I woke up as sick as a dog, and was admitted to the hospital. Do I attribute this to any divine being, or paranormal/supernatural experience? No. Not at all. I believe that the mind/body relationship is a very powerful thing.

Do you honestly expect me to believe you? You should ask "god" for $1 Million to donate to charity. That is a great reason to be given $1 Million dollars so, assuming your god is real, he should have no problem with giving you that amount. He is, after all, the creator of all things.

When you receive the money, I'd like you to make a video of you as you count all of the money that has been given to you.

Also, what disturbs me is how you think "god" would give you, a mere mortal, $1000 to satisfy a personal need, when there are people begging for their lives in intensive care units. You are deluding yourself if you truly believe that "god" favours you over a dying cancer patient.

"God" is not mundane at all. "God" is simply a mythological construct designed to create order, prevent overpopulation and blanket the concept of death. In doing so, great disorder and misconduct has been created. I am honestly highly encouraging you to consult a therapist. And, I am NOT joking.

HAllucinations are where one person's mind is out of sync with ordinary common reality. They are caused by biochemical or psychological causes There is a disconnect between what a person perceives /understands to be real, and what is real.

My experiences are of/within, a common shared reality. They are not in my mind or unreal. Of course, as with all worldy things I experience, a part of them occurs within my mind .That is true for all humans, in every experience A person can encounter a tiger and feel fear, or wonder, or joy. The tiger is common, the responses are individual.

Why should i ask god for a million dollars ? I have more than i need and i help hundreds of people with what i have already. It is not part of my relationship with god (at least as yet) to make millions of dollars and give it away. If god decides that would be beneficial, then he will make it so. Perhaps god knows that, being human, a million dollars might change me and tempt me in ways that would be harmful. Perhaps I would end up becoming selfish, and doing less good than I do now. In the end all my wifes and my assets will go to people more needy than us. In the meantime I invest those assets to raise capital to give to others.

Of course i dont expect you to believe me. I am merely explaining a fact of my life which provides rationale for my understandings of life and nature. You dont need a video. There are plenty of witnesses for most occasions. In fact it once reached the stage where it was becoming so obvious in my community winning/finding money that i had to stop for a while.

God is not helping me OVER a cancer patient. He helps them too I donate a lot of money to cancer research heart disease and childrens charities I can only do this because god has so enriched me. Ps my wife and I also give a lot of money to animal welfare /rights, and ecological movements too. Stewardship involves caring for all the planet, not just humans

He helped me through a triple by pass heart operation sending an angel to comfort me and give me a bible in hospital. And god helps me (i believe) first because i accept and understand his gifts, and second because i use them to help others. I dont need what god gives me. I am one of the richest and luckiest humans on this planet, statistically, but i can give it to others to help them live/be fed, get educated, not have to become sex or slave workers etc. I dont understand it all, but I can see the logic in this. I am currenlty doing my last two years income taxes. I was just adding up our donations to charities in that time. In essence in my working life of 40 plus years i have probably given away /shared more than a million dollars around the world and locally. That is nothing to be proud of. Everything i have is gods and so, as all humans are my family, it is only right to do what i can for them. Despite everything i have given away, I have a house, a car, food ,clothing etc.

I have all my physical needs and am provided with all my human needs of love companionship, family, and a sense of purpose. I will support my wife and i in our old age without dependence on the govt or on others and i will leave what we held during our life time to be shared among many others when we are dead. I believ I have been a good steward of waht god has given me through circumstance, and through my relationship with him.

This principle is explained in many biblical stories and parables. It is established wisdom in many faiths and beliefs.

Ps. I know people whom god told they would be cured of terminal cancer and who subsequently were. God saves lives and helps people all the time, every day, every where. Not just christians but atheists buddhist gaeans.

We are ALL a part of god like it or not. He is an equal opportunity employer. Of course those unaware of god and unable to communicate with him may not recognise his presence or help. And some just have to accept it in faith without a full appreciation of their relationship with god.

But if more humans understood their relationship with god in the western world, then all starvation and most poverty etc could be eliminated in this world in a very short time span. The world would cease being raped of resources for our toys and entertainment, and we would establish a long term sustainable and equitable ecology on earth. We would all be a heck of a lot happier, less depressed, and saner.

You are wrong about god. your belief is wrong. God is real and powerful. But dont concern yourself about it . This realisation has to come from within . If you are not ready for it, then it wont happen. Thats part of the deal.

ps I am one of the few posters on UM certifiably sane. WHen I first encountered god, and circumstances made it clear who and what I was encounternig of course i had my self checked out.

Both neurologiclaly and psychologically, by some of the top specialists in Australia (and thus in the world) And i continue to have the best scans available on a regular basis

Their conclusions? Physiologically /neurologically completely healthy. Psychologically, completely healthy. Not just that but "highly functional, very lucid, and grounded in reality."

A couple of the experts explained it to me like this. They dont understand the nature of the experiences but they are familiar with them through people who come to them. They have open minds and study the contextual relationships, within the experiences, the logic and common sense of those being spoken to. They do whole batteries of tests via formal interviews and discusssions. Some people are obviously deluded, hallucinatory and even "insane".

Others have encountered something that most people do not. But no professional expert will say this is impossible, simply that it is beyond their own experiences and area of professional expertise. (Except that in one or two cases it is not. Even medical experts sometimes have real encounters with the "supernatural " That makes them more open minded.)

Edited by Mr Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HAllucinations are where one person's mind is out of sync with ordinary common reality. They are caused by biochemical or psychological causes There is a disconnect between what a person perceives /understands to be real, and what is real.

Exactly, and what you are experiencing is what you perceive to be real; not what is actually real. You attribute these occurrences to a divine being.

My experiences are of/within, a common shared reality. They are not in my mind or unreal. Of course, as with all worldy things I experience, a part of them occurs within my mind .That is true for all humans, in every experience A person can encounter a tiger and feel fear, or wonder, or joy. The tiger is common, the responses are individual.

No, these experiences are in your mind. And, while they may not be unreal, they most certainly do not point to the intervention of a creator. I am sorry to say.

Why should i ask god for a million dollars ? I have more than i need and i help hundreds of people with what i have already. It is not part of my relationship with god (at least as yet) to make millions of dollars and give it away. If god decides that would be beneficial, then he will make it so. Perhaps god knows that, being human, a million dollars might change me and tempt me in ways that would be harmful. Perhaps I would end up becoming selfish, and doing less good than I do now. In the end all my wifes and my assets will go to people more needy than us. In the meantime I invest those assets to raise capital to give to others.

I really do not think that an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent deity would give a hoot as to what one individual out of a seemingly-endless number of planets is tempted by, or what they would do with the money. I really, and honestly think you are a nut job.

Of course i dont expect you to believe me.

I don't.

I am merely explaining a fact of my life which provides rationale for my understandings of life and nature. You dont need a video. There are plenty of witnesses for most occasions. In fact it once reached the stage where it was becoming so obvious in my community winning/finding money that i had to stop for a while.

I do need a video, because you are making these extraordinary claims... and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

God is not helping me OVER a cancer patient. He helps them too I donate a lot of money to cancer research heart disease and childrens charities I can only do this because god has so enriched me. Ps my wife and I also give a lot of money to animal welfare /rights, and ecological movements too. Stewardship involves caring for all the planet, not just humans

God is not helping cancer patients at all, as he is what created cancer to begin with. In essence, he is the reason as to why they have cancer. He purportedly sent Jesus to our planet to cure the blind, however.. he could not cure blindness? He helps those who are suffering from cancer, yet can not fully eradicate cancer in itself? Why would he help specific individuals suffering from cancer, and not just completely eliminate such needless suffering? I am assuming you are going to retort with some pseudo-logic in order to justify how "God has his reasons". Typical Christian fundamentalist mumbo-jumbo.

He helped me through a triple by pass heart operation sending an angel to comfort me and give me a bible in hospital. And god helps me (i believe) first because i accept and understand his gifts, and second because i use them to help others. I dont need what god gives me. I am one of the richest and luckiest humans on this planet, statistically, but i can give it to others to help them live/be fed, get educated, not have to become sex or slave workers etc. I dont understand it all, but I can see the logic in this. I am currenlty doing my last two years income taxes. I was just adding up our donations to charities in that time. In essence in my working life of 40 plus years i have probably given away /shared more than a million dollars around the world and locally. That is nothing to be proud of. Everything i have is gods and so, as all humans are my family, it is only right to do what i can for them. Despite everything i have given away, I have a house, a car, food ,clothing etc.

What about those who help/accept his "gifts", yet are subjected to needless suffering, such as cancer? What about those who died in 9/11, who had families to go home to, but never made it home? And you are trying to tell me that "god" is giving you money to donate to charities, however.. he allowed a building to collapse on many individuals, killing them? He allowed such atrocities such as the holocaust to occur, yet he gives you a petty $1000 for a personal "need"?

Ps. I know people whom god told they would be cured of terminal cancer and who subsequently were. God saves lives and helps people all the time, every day, every where. Not just christians but atheists buddhist gaeans.

What about those who were told by god that they would be cured, and subsequently WERE NOT?

You are wrong about god. your belief is wrong. God is real and powerful. But dont concern yourself about it . This realisation has to come from within . If you are not ready for it, then it wont happen. Thats part of the deal.

Yes, I imagine so. I assume you must have been ready for it? What is so special about you?

ps I am one of the few posters on UM certifiably sane. WHen I first encountered god, and circumstances made it clear who and what I was encounternig of course i had my self checked out.

Both neurologiclaly and psychologically, by some of the top specialists in Australia (and thus in the world) And i continue to have the best scans available on a regular basis

Clearly you have not sought therapy to the extent that you should have.

Their conclusions? Physiologically /neurologically completely healthy. Psychologically, completely healthy. Not just that but "highly functional, very lucid, and grounded in reality."

LOL!

With all due respect, the more I read your responses in an attempt to justify "god's" existence, the more I realize how insane you really are. You are one of those deluded, hallucinatory and insane individuals. I am sorry to say.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not a put-down. I simply do not believe that any self-respecting individual can possibly subject themselves to such fantastical beliefs.

If this "god" character that you speak of exists in the same realm as your wife and your dog, then perhaps may I suggest seeking counseling? Honestly. I am not trying to belittle you and denigrate you in any way, shape or form... but if this being is as physical as you are claiming, then perhaps a psyche evaluation is in need.

Well, that depends - if you don't want to appear as a fool, then evidence most-definitely is required. You cannot say that he is as real as you and me, then turn around and provide not a shred of evidence for it. That equates to me saying "I have a daily conversation with a unicorn, and it is as real as you and me; however, I do not have any transferable evidence to reinforce my claims."

Before you turn around and say that "God" and unicorns are not the same, yes they are - both have dedicated communities, both have people who worship them, both have communities that claim to have felt the presence of these things. There is no difference, in terms of the belief involved.

Self-evidently real... to you, apparently. As I said, if these beings are as real as you say they are to you, you need to seek psychiatric evaluation.

Clearly your sanity is the least of your concerns, my friend.

If the evidences for god are physical, then explain to me why no empirical evidence exists to reinforce its physicality?

This appears to be the result of schizophrenia, my friend.

As I said, if god is so physical and mundane, how come there has never been any conclusive scientific research the show that god exists? Anything that is physical can be measured, so why has it not been measured?..

Okay, well... what about Zeus, Apollo, Gaia? Do those gods exist? Can they exist, or do you just believe in one god? If only one god, then how come only that one god? Why can you not believe in other gods?

No, this "god" does not enjoy teaching you anything - it is what you learn as a part of your personal experiences with the physical, natural realm... not from trials that are purportedly given to you by "god".

No, "god" is a fairy tale - period. I think you should take my advice, and seek counseling. If anybody were to come to you and say that a 20-foot lizard that only they could see was providing them with all of the experiences that you are saying that "God" is providing you with, you would tell them to do the exact same thing.

When they are real they are neither fantastical, nor beliefs. Once europeans thought platypi were unreal fantastical creatures.

Your advice on counselling is noted See previous response. BUT your advice is based on your BELIEF that god cannot be real . Why should one need a psych evaluation when they encounter anything real?

I am not a fool And i know that to be so. Your opinion and that of others is neither relevant; nor pertinent to the truth. It is not my role in life to convince or convert you, or anyone else. I am merely explaining what is real and what is not. This reality is not mine alone, it impinges on your reality/our shared reality as well. Henc i understand your reluctance to accept it as real. But that is your issue not mine Iamot resposnsible for anyone's relationship with god, other than my own.

Dont be silly, unicorns are mythological constructs :innocent:

Seriously, I do not know if unicorns existed I doubt it, because ive never met one (like you doubt god because youve never met one) But I retain an open mind. After all, the reality of triceratops has been established in the last century or two. Physical unicorns are no more inherently impossible than triceratops. The narwhales horn probably formed the basis for this belief but no one knows or sure.

In many ways, the existence of god is measured. if you mean scientifically, then how long has science had anything like the abilty to identify and measure an alien entity of superior technology?.

None theless, all real physicla things are capable of measurement, so god is capable of measurement, once we have the technology and means to do so.

Some human gods are constructs created by the nature of huan thought Others are a recognition by human sapience of realities within their universe. Realities with an indpendent existence but are not understood eg the sun and the moon. And some gods are actually independent entities with sapient self willed purpose.

You decide which human gods are which. Personally i allow the potential for all gods to be real from cromagnon times to today. In their sapience humans have an ability to recognise and catalogue entities. It is we who decide what are gods, and give them the name of gods. To me jehovah and gaea are one and the same. They are avatars of what i know as the cosmic consciousness. I dont know about thor odin etc They may well be human cultural expressions arising from contact by humans of those times with the same cosmic consciousness. I make no judgements on other people's religions, other than on their effects on people/society for creative or destructive purposes.

How can you know what god teaches me or what methods he uses to do so? You can only believe based on your own lack of similar experiences That leaves you very open to being wrong in your conclusions. God doesnt give me trials or exams. He teaches me like i teach children. WOrds, pictures, analogies, stories rhetorical questions, investigations. puzzles. research assignments etc.

But it is not only me who sees and commmunicates with god, is it? That is a pert of the point. Ordinary, sane individual humans ahve been doing this for at least 50000 years My pov is the opposite. I find it incredible, and hard to accept that so many humans are "god -blind". That they can't see what is theer all around them and inside them. That they can't hear god or communicate with him . I have to accept there is some natural reason for this, like why I am colour blind or tone deaf, or why i cannot see images inside my head while conscious. (consciously visualise things) Why i think in words not pictures. Why i can read and memorise a page in an instant, but cant remember peoples' names

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, and what you are experiencing is what you perceive to be real; not what is actually real. You attribute these occurrences to a divine being.

No, these experiences are in your mind. And, while they may not be unreal, they most certainly do not point to the intervention of a creator. I am sorry to say.

I really do not think that an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent deity would give a hoot as to what one individual out of a seemingly-endless number of planets is tempted by, or what they would do with the money. I really, and honestly think you are a nut job.

I don't.

I do need a video, because you are making these extraordinary claims... and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

God is not helping cancer patients at all, as he is what created cancer to begin with. In essence, he is the reason as to why they have cancer. He purportedly sent Jesus to our planet to cure the blind, however.. he could not cure blindness? He helps those who are suffering from cancer, yet can not fully eradicate cancer in itself? Why would he help specific individuals suffering from cancer, and not just completely eliminate such needless suffering? I am assuming you are going to retort with some pseudo-logic in order to justify how "God has his reasons". Typical Christian fundamentalist mumbo-jumbo.

What about those who help/accept his "gifts", yet are subjected to needless suffering, such as cancer? What about those who died in 9/11, who had families to go home to, but never made it home? And you are trying to tell me that "god" is giving you money to donate to charities, however.. he allowed a building to collapse on many individuals, killing them? He allowed such atrocities such as the holocaust to occur, yet he gives you a petty $1000 for a personal "need"?

What about those who were told by god that they would be cured, and subsequently WERE NOT?

Yes, I imagine so. I assume you must have been ready for it? What is so special about you?

Clearly you have not sought therapy to the extent that you should have.

LOL!

With all due respect, the more I read your responses in an attempt to justify "god's" existence, the more I realize how insane you really are. You are one of those deluded, hallucinatory and insane individuals. I am sorry to say.

Roflmao Have you ever considered the possibility that iam right and you are wrong. That, technically, in refusing to acknowledge truth you aer the deluded one in need of counselling? :innocent:

Humans cant decide/determine/choose, what is real or not. We have to accept that which is. however strange or fantastical it seems. Humans once understood this but in the age of science it is less obvious. What is real is real, no matter how much we want to believe it is not. And the only way a person can know, for sure, if something is real is to experience it for themsleves. All else is faith in others experiences.

Ps I am not god. I can only do what a human can do and sometimes a little bit more becaus eof the power of god in me' Most human problems are caused by humans and can/must be cured by humans. I am doing my bit. Talk to others about the unfairness of life, do your bit and change it. CAncer is curable, war is preventable, hunger and pain are preventable all by humans. And god has told us how to achieve all these things.

My form of "insanity" could cure the world of most of its current problems, if applied .To be honest i do not see your form of sanity working terribly well. At best it does nothing. At worst it causes inequality and great harm to humanity and to the planet. Do you think it is insane to work actively towards ending the problems caused by humanity's current attitudes and values?

Where do you get some of your ideas from, such as god causing cancer. NAture and environment causes cancer. It's scientific causes are increasingly understood. Dont smoke, eat meat, drink alcohol, do exercise regularly, avoid known artificial carcinogens, and dont spend too much time in the sun; and your cancer risk is dramatically reduced. God tells me( and humanity) that how we live our lives affects the outcomes in those lives. (In ALL things) So does science, but not so powerfully or articulately. P from evidences available to me god can cure cancer completelty and almost immedaitely He can do lots of things. You would have to ask him exactly WHY he makes certain choices and decisions I note logic and rational purpose in how god acts and so i can extrpolate that he has reasons for his behaviours.

I am not special. That is the point i am trying to make. by many of my posts on UM. I am almost exactly the same as any other human being, in biological and neuroloical make up, and so god exists within every human being, and is available to each one of them. What god does for and with me, he can, and will, do with anyone who is capable of accpeting him and acting in accord with him. He can't ,or choses not to, force humans to act in a way that might seem best for them but would not allow them to evolve and improve ethemselves. God is a teacher not a tyrant. Ultimately our individual and species future and survival depends on us not on god.The choics we make, and how we act. God can help us make wiser decisions, and to survive some of the less wise ones, but wont force us into them. That would not help us at all, ultimately.

Because god is real, I dont need to "justify" his existence, any more than i need to "justify" my wifes existence. It is just as it is.

Ps you make one valid point. I wasnt "ready" for gods appearance and intervention in my life. I didnt know what it was or accept it immediately. I did examine it with logic, and i was scared. I did seek professional and medical help. I didnt need god or want it ,at that point in my life. God intervened anyway. However, i was 'ready' in many senses. I was used, all my life, to paranormal and supernaturalabilities and incidents, i didnt understand all these. Some appeared hereditary some unique to me. They were real and powerful enough to scare other children/adolescents, and so I moslty kept quiet about them and studied them . When god manifested, my first thought was that this was another paranormal power from within myself, but the capabilities demonstrated by god were so great that logically, i knew they didnt come from within myslelf. Over time I came to understand that all those lprevious manifestions, including my tapping into the cosmic consciousness as a pre adolescent, were actually connected, and part of the entity i chose to call god

I was also ready and able to respond to god. i was wiling and able to completely change my life; give up smoking drinking wild women and materialism /hedonism, to be a spiritual person. It took time effort discipline and training, but with gods mentoring teaching and guidance i evolved into what i am today. As a consequence thousands of humans and dozens of communities are better off than the would have bene if god had nevr intevened in my life. Perhaps god knew he could make a small difference to the world, by making a big one in me. Perhaps that just isn't true for most people.

Edited by Mr Walker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 1

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.