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Is your sense of the divine found in Nature?

Divinity/Nature Poll   19 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the divine separate from Nature/Universe aka for some "is God separate from His Creation?"

    • Yes, nature is not where the divine can be found?
      1
    • No, every part of nature contains the essence of the divine (God for some)
      18
  2. 2. Are you Christian or Pagan?

    • Christian
      5
    • Pagan
      3
    • Other
      11
  3. 3. Are trees special?

    • Yes
      13
    • No
      6

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

40 posts in this topic

On the other hand, you didn't lose everything. You were insured... Why, however, did your god allow the fire to happen? What was its purpose?

I was insured but insurance cant buy back irreplaceable things like the only copies of family photos going back 150 years research p[hotos and documents for a family tree tracing my family back 300 years, a telescope brought out on the first ship to south australia by my wifes great grandmother, original paintings by the artists on mathew flinders voyage in 1801, to map our coast line. They couldn't replace my wifes wedding dress or her mothers one. Or the antique red cedar table fom my great grandmothers farm kitchen still marked by circular burns from hot water kettles off the fire. We paid 400 dollars for that table from a cousin when we got married. A similar one sold in sydney for 20000 dollars My mum bought us one of the original lithographs for 20 dollars when we were married a similar one sold in auction for $30000 (more than it was really worth in my opinion) There was no way insurance money could buy back such items We lost at least a hundred thousand dollars worth of material items whch were not insured because it would have cost too much to do so. I lost a stamp collection collected from childhood including very rare and valuable australian stamps.

But its not about the value. We didnt pay a lot for them, we werent going to sell them. Eventually we would have passed them on to the next generation of family. It is the loss of those items to the world, to the future, and to history. The reason why they were materially so valauble was their rarity and in some cases uniqueness. The first thing my wife cried about as we slept in her brothers bed (he had moved to his sons to give us a place to stay) the night of the fire, was the loss of her, and her mothers, wedding dress.

The fire had no purpose. The world does not work that way. It was caused by a bloke with a faulty muffler/spark arrestor driving/parking on a grassy verge. I dont blame him and i didnt join the class action against him/ the insurance companies ( people died and i suspect his guilt was great, but he didn't know his muffler was faulty. It was just a tragic event)

. The severity /intensity of this fire was the greatst ever recorded in australia at the time and as great as the later but larger victorian fires. The conditions were so extreme that paddocks and houses simply exploded in flame before the main fire front was any where near them .As we drove away, through spot fires and dense smoke, we heard a radio broadcast. A witness 20 miles away saw our house explode and said something like, There's some poor buggers house gone." Only later did we realise it was our own

God had no hand in the fire. What he did do was save me and a number of other people (that i know of) from the fire For me it was clear and explicit because i was already in a physicla relationship with god.

For others, who wrote in a book published after the fire, it was the "presence' of god which saved them. They disnt encouter the physicality of god, as i did tha t day (as far as I now) but they sensed god protecting them. They survived, in partn because of their repsonse to that feeling of protection.

A cousin was caught outside his car/utility, trying to save his dog. This was in densely wooded and hilly country. The fire swept over him before he realised it was approaching, and before he could get back into the car. He and the dog lay down in a shallow ditch on the side of the road. He wasn't hurt but when he got up to get back in the car, he pulled on the door handle to open the door. It melted in his hand and seriously burned his hand, leaving the impression of his hand in the molten plastic. Later, that handle was part of a post fire exhibition.

Ps god helped me most after the fire. I was never traumatidsed. I was not grief stricken i was not even sad or depressed. I was never angry. The love and generosity of my community and the people of australia overwhelmed me Tha twas the only thing which brought me to tears when i had ot thank epole for thie love kindness and charity.

The whole experience for me became a psotive one of learning, growth, love and development. It made me a better, stronger person. But that is mY response to it, engendered by gods help. Many others still suffer trauma sme considerably. One bloke just commited suicide this year 7 years after having lost his wife and two little girls in the fire. i feel for him, and his losses were far greater and of a different magntude to mine, but it was impossible for me to have a similar response. God prevented it by changing my heart and mind, keeping them safe, and filled with love and joy.

Edited by Mr Walker

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The fire had no purpose. The world does not work that way.

It was just a tragic event)

Only later did we realise it was our own

God had no hand in the fire. What he did do was save me and a number of other people (that i know of) from the fire For me it was clear and explicit because i was already in a physicla relationship with god.

A cousin was caught outside his car/utility, trying to save his dog. This was in densely wooded and hilly country. The fire swept over him before he realised it was approaching, and before he could get back into the car. He and the dog lay down in a shallow ditch on the side of the road. He wasn't hurt but when he got up to get back in the car, he pulled on the door handle to open the door. It melted in his hand and seriously burned his hand, leaving the impression of his hand in the molten plastic. Later, that handle was part of a post fire exhibition.

Ps god helped me most after the fire. I was never traumatidsed. I was not grief stricken i was not even sad or depressed. I was never angry. The love and generosity of my community and the people of australia overwhelmed me Tha twas the only thing which brought me to tears when i had ot thank epole for thie love kindness and charity.

The whole experience for me became a psotive one of learning, growth, love and development. It made me a better, stronger person. But that is mY response to it, engendered by gods help. Many others still suffer trauma sme considerably. One bloke just commited suicide this year 7 years after having lost his wife and two little girls in the fire. i feel for him, and his losses were far greater and of a different magntude to mine, but it was impossible for me to have a similar response. God prevented it by changing my heart and mind, keeping them safe, and filled with love and joy.

I wasn't asking about how the world works... Since you're in contact with your god, have you asked him/her why he/she allowed the fire happen? Is your god a limited power? Did "it" even foresee this event?

Thank you for your heartfelt post, Mr Walker.

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I wasn't asking about how the world works... Since you're in contact with your god, have you asked him/her why he/she allowed the fire happen? Is your god a limited power? Did "it" even foresee this event?

Thank you for your heartfelt post, Mr Walker.

We talk more about the personal issues and its probably my fault. I dont think of god beyond my self. I am not interested in getting others to convert or believe in god and as far as i kno,w god is not. either. God encourages me and helps me to help hundreds of other peopl, many animals, and the environment, around the world. It is not that he or I are selfish. I give about 20000 dollars away to helppeole every year, but our relationship is between us. god empowers and enriches me, so that I am able to do more for others.

it has never asked, expected, or even hinted that i should try and prosylethise, but is happy for me to talk about our relationship.

For me god, and human is a one on one connection, but i can explain my own informed views which are in part formed from my understanding of the nature of god.

First god is not the omnscient omnipotent entity imagined by some, including some christians. God did not create the world. God does not normally intervene in a way which negates human free will. God educates, mentors, protects, educates, etc., and supplies empowerments and abilities to individuals to help them . God expects humans to be all they can be, and to make the world a better place .

God doesnt cause natual events (or human events like wars) but god can work with people to protect them from events and to strengthen them in times of tragedy and hardship. God works inside people to do this. God also warns and protects people, both about the dangers of their own behaviours and about natural events, in order to minmise the effects of such events.

God has great computing power and the abilty to extarpolate information . No i dont think god forsaw this event although he forsaw the potentiality of the event. He warned me a year or so before, that i might face this scenario. But then i could work that out myslelf by applying algorithms and common sense, to my personal location and situation.

I had just had a triple by pass, 6 months before and wasnt physically able to prepare for a fire or stay and defend our home.

It was a random chaotic event. But god acted within the parameters of the event to warn and protect, and to guide people to safety The area was without power and had been for hours. Powerlines and poles were burnt down all around us exept to the north. God spoke tome and told me to turn on the radio even though there was no power . the radio came on to an ABC announ cement which lasted 30 secs to a minute. It told my wife and I that the wind change had changed the direction of the fire front by 90degrees and the fire front was now about 15 minutes away from us i think god did it this way to convince my wife SHe heard the news and immedaitely asked me to evacuate. We grabbed the cat, the box of emergency papers etc., and took off as the fire hit.

I said to god, whatever happens is your will and i am happy in your hands". He replied "Dont worry you both will be safe and untouched." He than "sat on my shoulder" and i drove slowy and calmly, qui e unafraid, out through smoke so dense you couldnt see the edge of the roadd and through spot fires breaking out all around us.That calmness and assurety of safety saved us.My wife asked me to drive faster. I said no we were going to be safe if we went carefuly but if we panicked we could run off the road A number of people, as we found out later, did that and died. I missed one turn in the smoke as it was, but stayed just ahead of the fire front until i could get out of its way.

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I dont think of god beyond my self.

First god is not the omnscient omnipotent entity imagined by some, including some christians. God did not create the world. God does not normally intervene in a way which negates human free will.

Thank you for clarifying your "thoughts" about your god, Mr Walker.

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A mystic/swami/teacher once told me that a person goes directly to his or her personal deity after the process of death, instead of merging with God(?), the true Power. One of the tasks of a guru is to sever that deity-tie in order for that person to merge with the one God(?) via Nirvana -- finally to be free, the only true freedom. The worst thing a guru/teacher can do is to make himself/herself into another deity for a student to transcend, to become another pain-in-the-bvtt; a guru who does this is an insecure, deluded one, no doubt. A guru is merely a servant of the "flow," "a sh%t stick," if you will. A GREAT guru is a puppet. A no-thing.

"I passed the test. I will diminish..." GALADRIEL

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Thank you for clarifying your "thoughts" about your god, Mr Walker.

N.P. You asked nicely, and politely. :innocent:

And I agree. This is "my" god. Just as no two people can experience the world in exactly the same way, no two people can experience god in the same way.

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A mystic/swami/teacher once told me that a person goes directly to his or her personal deity after the process of death, instead of merging with God(?), the true Power. One of the tasks of a guru is to sever that deity-tie in order for that person to merge with the one God(?) via Nirvana -- finally to be free, the only true freedom. The worst thing a guru/teacher can do is to make himself/herself into another deity for a student to transcend, to become another pain-in-the-bvtt; a guru who does this is an insecure, deluded one, no doubt. A guru is merely a servant of the "flow," "a sh%t stick," if you will. A GREAT guru is a puppet. A no-thing.

"I passed the test. I will diminish..." GALADRIEL

This is interesting.

I have read quite a bit about the nature and levels of human consciousness (in a metaphysical as well as a physical/scientific sense) The integration of oneself with "god" or the cosmic universal consciousness, is supposed to be the highest level of consciousness. It is often thought to be attainable only through meditation self discipline and years of study. Yet it happened first for me before I was even an adolescent. I did not understand fully the experience.

I called what i enevountered the 'cosmic 'consciousness" because that is what it was, and i became integrated with it. That allowed me to do things with my consiousness like linking to others etc and "projecting it out" via the universal consciousness. Only decades later did i read about how this was encountered by others, and a book by a person who described the same experiences I had had.

Why this was able to happen to me, I dont know. Whether it was a physical thing about me and my mind or a psychological openness, I can't say. I do know that, from the age of a few years, i was highly aawre of my own consiousness and its abilities I learned to use muliple elemants of my conscious in tandem or to debate each other before entering school. I had been working since about the age of 6 to integrate my conscious and subconscious minds in order to master and control my dreamscapes, and I was thinking a lot about manifestations of consciousness since seeing the film "forbidden planet" in about 1957, which explored the manifestation of consciousness in physical form.

I agree that this experience is a unique and individual one to each person. In my experience one doesnt need a teacher or to be taught how to achieve this. It can be done through a path of self education/discovery, and self enlightenment. This suggests it should be a very common and achievable thing, but i suspect many people are either uninterested or even resistant to this.

It can be scary and challenging but it offers so much empowerment to what it means to be human. ANd certainly one doesnt have to die to achieve this. I suspect it cannot happen after death, in that consciousness is a product of our organic body; and self aaware consciousness, as we understand it, will die with our body. But in life we can reach all corners of the world, even the universe, and travel back into the past consciousnesses stored in the universal consciousness.

More than this is possible. and no one knows for sure what happens after death, but I am a scientific rationalist and all the evidences point to a ceasation of individual self aware consciousnes with the death of its organic host. My evidences suggest it is then preserved and stored as a part of the cosmic consciousness and is accesible by living humans, but may not be stlll aware of itself as an individual entity.

For example, inside the cosmic consciousness i go back in time and live with my father's consciousness in the 1930s period, as he/it was then . I have even ridden as a pillion passenger on his bsa bantam from that period (I had to search google to find/verify what sort of bike it was) and accompanied him to dances where he was courting my mother. We talk about things and i live with him in his 'world" observing and learning. I can do the same to access other past periods by entering other consciousnesses stored in the cosmic conscious anywhere in past /present space time.

But dad's consciousness is 'trapped" or preserved in that stored condition. I can't change anything about it, and i certainly cant tell him that I am his future son, observing his early life.

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This is "my" god. Just as no two people can experience the world in exactly the same way, no two people can experience god in the same way.

Hey, I think that my god knows your god! :)

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This is "my" god. Just as no two people can experience the world in exactly the same way, no two people can experience god in the same way.

I'm not the right person to whom to tell that. I've never met God(?), even though I've experienced "awareness" after death. I've even experienced the first stage of the process of Nirvana...but knowing God(?)? Absolutely not, I've never merged with It. I've only known the promise of being one with God(?). Promise is not the same as being one with God(?). On the other hand, what I'm telling you is not unique. Others, not many, have experienced the first stage of Nirvana... Boddhisatvas are examples. In a way, I'm a 21st century boddhisatva. I bring to you the promise of Nirvana, to reinstate its validity. The "flow" is my witness. The 3 personal events - to prove to me that my "Awakening" was not just a dream - came to pass.

Peace.

Edited by braveone2u

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This is interesting.

The integration of oneself with "god" or the cosmic universal consciousness, is supposed to be the highest level of consciousness.

Please explain to me your concept of cosmic universal consciousness? God(?), as true freedom, is not in the material nor ethereal universe. Is it the spark in all of us? Perhaps. Spirituality is being in the now, not being in the future, nor lingering in the past. I've never met a God(?) in this world; however, I've met many gods, or demi-gods to be precise -- definitely, far away from my God(?), the true freedom. If God(?) were here, He/She would swallow up everything to end drama. Besides, God(?) is not necessary to be here because this world is about getting us out of here, not for souls to cling to it. But...all in due time. Some people have more addictions or desires than others, if you will. No one is forced to merge with God(?). We have many lifetimes to fulfill our lusts, desires, addictions, etc. No judgment. On the other hand, there are (few) souls who are ready to merge. It's neither good nor bad. It just is. They've reached their worldly tolerance, if you will. The story of their lives has finally given them a glimpse of another reality. Be careful what you ask for, so the saying goes. Many people want more lifetimes... I have no doubt that they will get this desire. Asking for spirituality? Well, that means the whole shebang (not just the pretty-pretty), the in-yer-face truth with no holds barred -- no ifs, ands, or buts. Again, spirituality is about the spirit, not about materiality. Earth is matter. Thing is matter. And so on.

"Why, oh why, didn't I take the blue pill??" THE MATRIX

Peace.

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Please explain to me your concept of cosmic universal consciousness? God(?), as true freedom, is not in the material nor ethereal universe. Is it the spark in all of us? Perhaps. Spirituality is being in the now, not being in the future, nor lingering in the past. I've never met a God(?) in this world; however, I've met many gods, or demi-gods to be precise -- definitely, far away from my God(?), the true freedom. If God(?) were here, He/She would swallow up everything to end drama. Besides, God(?) is not necessary to be here because this world is about getting us out of here, not for souls to cling to it. But...all in due time. Some people have more addictions or desires than others, if you will. No one is forced to merge with God(?). We have many lifetimes to fulfill our lusts, desires, addictions, etc. No judgment. On the other hand, there are (few) souls who are ready to merge. It's neither good nor bad. It just is. They've reached their worldly tolerance, if you will. The story of their lives has finally given them a glimpse of another reality. Be careful what you ask for, so the saying goes. Many people want more lifetimes... I have no doubt that they will get this desire. Asking for spirituality? Well, that means the whole shebang (not just the pretty-pretty), the in-yer-face truth with no holds barred -- no ifs, ands, or buts. Again, spirituality is about the spirit, not about materiality. Earth is matter. Thing is matter. And so on.

"Why, oh why, didn't I take the blue pill??" THE MATRIX

Peace.

My personal experince of the universal consciousnes or cosmic consciousness is almost identical to richard bucke's

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=6quOVMthgwsC&pg=PA1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

He wrote about it in 1901 and although some of his cultural contexts are a bit dated, he got the nature of the experience right. I first experienced it about 1960 when i was around 8 or 9 years old. I only discovered bucke's book a few years ago, courtesy of the internet. Interestingly i had also called it the cosmic consciousness ,because that was precisely what it was.

There exists a universal consciousness, of which our own consciousnesses are a part. Our consciousness, all other consciousnesses, and the universal consciousness are interconnected. It is a bit like a consciousness of the internet or the cloud. The whole is more than the sum of the parts, and exists as a separate self aware entity capable of physical as well as metaphysicla activity/manifestation.

I suspect that it is this entity which many people have encountered and come to understand as god

Thus my consciousness can contact other consciousnesses right next to me or a thousand million miles away. My consciousness can link into the cosmic consciousness and be a part of its totality or any singular part of it. That includes the past, because all consciousness from the past is stored within the cosmic consciousness. I can both learn from it and from the minds of other people, and also use it as a wonderful form of entertainment.

In my life, learning IS entertainment, and so i find both go hand in hand. I can also ride the consciousness to sight see and travel around the world and join with any human or alien consciousness anywhere. I did this all the time as a child and an adolescent but as i became an adult i found the pleasures of the flesh and of materialism /hedonism to outweigh mystical albeit real and verifiable, transcendatal ones.

In my "old age" I am re learning re accessing and re freshing my connection to the cosmic consciousness, a s I move away from the pleasures of the flesh, materialism and hedonism., Everything i need in life apart from material needs of food, water, shelter, etc., can be found within the cosmic consciousness.

Is that blue pilly enough for you?

In my experience god /the cosmic consciousness exists within us, separately from us, and in a connected form of us /it. Thus God is in me, i am in god, and we are one.

I see no evidence of multiple lifetimes, although that is possible. I accept only what i know and experience. I dont trust in belief, or see any need for itfor myself.

Given that humans are only a few years from being able to replicate and store all our personal memories and knowedge, and transfer it either to another clone, or to an artificial intelligence, I can accept that the cosmic consciousness, which is a much older "race" than us, already can do this.

I know i can access past consciousnesses/ memories etc like my father's and hitch a ride on/with them, but i dont know what happens with the mind when the organic body dies, apart from it being stored in the cosmic consciousness.

Spirituality, including human spirituality, lives in the cosmic consciousness as well as in us, and when we combine consciousnesses, we combine a sense of spiritual self, but there is no evidence or surety that i will be either conscious/self aware, or able to access the cosmic consciousness, when I am dead. My mind might just be stored there, like my father's and the other dead people i can access.

(For example I did a 'field trip" to my local hospital back in the 1940s to check it out. I met a couple of doctors from that time in the hospital (who are in reality long dead) and pretended to be another doctor. (That wasn't hard as I knew more about medicine than either of them. They were wearing 3 piece suits and SMOKING in the wards (and so were a lot of other people) I talked to them about medicine, operations ,the effect of " modern" innovations in medicine, and current public health issues. I went around the hospital and wards with them, checking it out

.It was interesting to see the old nurse's uniforms, architecture, lighting, facilities, and medical equipment, beds etc . LAter i checked out the hodspital and other things on the internet and by talking to older people like my mother. Everything i saw, from uniforms to beds/equipment etc checked out. What staggered me was the amount of smoking by almost everyone in the hospital,and the provision of ash trays etc., next to beds. There were almost no private rooms, and most wards held up to a dozen beds (more cots than beds, really) The doctors were like gods and were treated as such by everyone else. They were very confident and filled with pride. I felt like showing them my triple by pass scars and seeing their expresions, because in those times such scars would have meant something fatal had occured to me. I refrained, because i was there to learn, not to pass judgement.

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I suspect that it is this entity which many people have encountered and come to understand as god

If this were the one and only God(?), I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with it. I would find a way to destroy it for its petiness and carelessness, at all costs...but since I know that it's not the God(?) - that One I'm hoping to merge with - the god you've mentioned is just another entity, a servant of my God(?), more than likely. The stories of our lives unfold beyond our control, and we are merely trying to stay above them -- the main reason why I don't fault any demi-gods in this world. I'm sure the god you've mentioned is just doing its role and trying to not get in the way of human endeavors, unless asked. And I highly doubt it if this universal consciousness you've mentioned has ever stated itself to be THE God(?); otherwise, I would be very cautious. Like I always say, one should always know to whom one is praying. There are many "politicians" in this universe. Many people and disembodied entities are just clamoring to be a god, unfortunately. This universe is noisy as it is. At any rate, there is only one God(?), at least according to many holy books. Not 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on. I'm following the promise of my ONE God(?)...

Thank you again, Mr Walker, for your heartfelt reply. I wish you good journey in your sojourn on earth.

Paul

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If this were the one and only God(?), I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with it. I would find a way to destroy it for its petiness and carelessness, at all costs...but since I know that it's not the God(?) - that One I'm hoping to merge with - the god you've mentioned is just another entity, a servant of my God(?), more than likely. The stories of our lives unfold beyond our control, and we are merely trying to stay above them -- the main reason why I don't fault any demi-gods in this world. I'm sure the god you've mentioned is just doing its role and trying to not get in the way of human endeavors, unless asked. And I highly doubt it if this universal consciousness you've mentioned has ever stated itself to be THE God(?); otherwise, I would be very cautious. Like I always say, one should always know to whom one is praying. There are many "politicians" in this universe. Many people and disembodied entities are just clamoring to be a god, unfortunately. This universe is noisy as it is. At any rate, there is only one God(?), at least according to many holy books. Not 2, 3, 4, 5, and so on. I'm following the promise of my ONE God(?)...

Thank you again, Mr Walker, for your heartfelt reply. I wish you good journey in your sojourn on earth.

Paul

You are quite right .The cosmic consciousness doesnt call itself god. I name it that for purposes of respect and clarity. There may well be more than one universal cosmic consciosness.

The one i know is caring compassionate interested inme/humanity and very powerful, It has estabished a relatonship with me tha tis entirely productive and creative and empowers and transforms me and hence allows me to do more for the world . To be a part of it is to know that other humans are not just my brothers and sisters, they (and all the universe, ARE me, and viceversa So i owe them and the natural world, the same concern, care, and effort as i owe to myself.

To me, that is more than enough to deal with in my real existence. I dont believe in a life after death, nor am i concerned with theoretical models of god, or in potentialities.

I find no pettiness or hate or carelessness in the cosmic consciousness, except in the individual human elements of it. It is not omniscient nor omnipotent Any more than we are. But you cant enter the cosmic consciousness with a mindset like that. (petty envious greedy or hating/fearing others)

And that is our responsibiity. Only we can cure and change ourselvess, although an awareness of our true nature can provide strong motivation to do this.

You cant hate something/one, that is a part of yourself (unless you are capable of hating yourself) You cant fear another person who is a part of yourself unless you fear a part of yourself. SO, change yourself and you change, not just your relationship with the world but you actually change the world as well.

Books contain wisdoms but not as much as we have within ourselves through experience discipline and using our minds effectively. Although one can learn principles from a book, one can only truly learn by doing and experiencing.

Of course all of this is my opinion based on my life experiences and on the way my mind has made sense of those experiences. Other people not only have very different life experiences they think in different ways to me. Thus humans are very different individuals. What I have enjoyed about the cosmic consciousness is the way it allows us to meld our minds together, into a universal mind, and thus to widen our experiences and learn what it is like to be another.

Edited by Mr Walker

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I dont believe in a life after death, nor am i concerned with theoretical models of god, or in potentialities.

I like that. You don't seem to have an once of regret and unresolved aspiration in that statement -- just pure acceptance. Stay well, Mr Walker.

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I am so glad to see that the panentheist view winning although some might be approaching this as pantheists.

Panentheism is a belief system which posits that the divine (be it a monotheistic God, polytheistic gods, or an eternal cosmic animating force), interpenetrates every part of nature and timelessly extends beyond it. Panentheism differentiates itself from pantheism, which holds that the divine is synonymous with the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Edited by Chasingtherabbit

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