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Rafterman

Anyone catch Survivorman's Top 10 show?

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Shoot! Bear'd kick his ass.

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To get back on topic, I do have a great deal of respect for Les and his skills in the wilderness. If he encountered something he couldn't readily explain then I have to give him some serious consideration. Now, having said that, I also have to consider that he's on TV.......know what I mean? Granted he stopped short of say, "I heard a Bigfoot.", but he planted the seed in everyone's mind that that was what he heard. Now while I'm no expert on Bigfoot sounds, I don't recall really ever hearing or reading anything about Bigfoots making ape-like sounds as he described. Maybe there are some but I'm going with my memory and I'm operating with a 1952 processor and don't see any chance of getting an upgrade in the near future.

All I've ever heard are the loud screaming/howls and whoops of alleged Bigfoots, but those were at distance, if we take Les's story as being more accurate than the average Bear, no pun intended, then perhaps up close they use more ape-like communication patterns. Hey, I'm just sort of thinking out loud here, ok?

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It's also clear from the episode and some of his interviews, that he was much more unnerved by his jaguar encounter than he was by whatever this could have been.

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It's also clear from the episode and some of his interviews, that he was much more unnerved by his jaguar encounter than he was by whatever this could have been.

Probably because he didn't know what it was, if I knew a lion or tiger was in my immediate area I'd be much more fearful than if a Biggy. Mainly because no one's ever been attacked by one that I know of, and of course it depends on how heavily armed I am. Fear and lack of weapons are inversely proportional.

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There could be any number of explanations to account for the seriously funky smell I smelled, none of them necessarily having anything to do with a Bigfoot.

My friend and I went fishing one day at the river. When we got there we found a nice spot and threw in our lines. No sooner than we did, we noticed a really bad smell. How bad was it Stardrive? It could have removed paint off cinderblock. We looked around but didn't see anything and couldn't figure out what it was or where it was coming from. But as we fished the stench just got stronger so we had to move. While we were walking we came upon the culprit. Someone had caught and killed a large snapping turtle and just threw on the bank. So yeah, there's lots of other things it could have been.

I know 4 people in my area that have seen a Bigfoot. 3 good friends and my girlfriends brother. I may have seen a dead one on interstate back in the 80's, but I never got up the nerve to get a better look, so I'll never know for sure what it was.

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Oh, and to add on the subject of Bear Grylls, I think he's pretty cool. He's done more stuff than most of us will ever dream of doing. Yes, he did spend nights in hotels and eat fast food on the road while he was shooting his show. However, had any of you bothered to read his disclaimer, it says some scenes are staged to depict real events. He doesn't need to break his leg, set the bone, make a splint out of a piece of old barbed wire and a couple of sticks in order to get the point across. He also drank water squeezed from elephant poops once......nice fresh elephant poop. Weren't no stand ins or trick photography on that and he didn't order it from room service.

Bear is alright in my book.

The Disclaimer is there only because of them being caught faking scenes. Before then the show did not have the disclaimer about some scenes being faked. They were all presented as real world situations not staged. I lost all respect for Bear when he did that. It is one thing to stage a scene to make it camera freindly it is another to do that but present it as a real situation even though it is staged.

Probably because he didn't know what it was, if I knew a lion or tiger was in my immediate area I'd be much more fearful than if a Biggy. Mainly because no one's ever been attacked by one that I know of, and of course it depends on how heavily armed I am. Fear and lack of weapons are inversely proportional.

He did know it was a jaguar. He knew he was being stalked by it as well. That is what unnerved him the most about the situation.

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My friend and I went fishing one day at the river. When we got there we found a nice spot and threw in our lines. No sooner than we did, we noticed a really bad smell. How bad was it Stardrive? It could have removed paint off cinderblock. We looked around but didn't see anything and couldn't figure out what it was or where it was coming from. But as we fished the stench just got stronger so we had to move. While we were walking we came upon the culprit. Someone had caught and killed a large snapping turtle and just threw on the bank. So yeah, there's lots of other things it could have been.

I know 4 people in my area that have seen a Bigfoot. 3 good friends and my girlfriends brother. I may have seen a dead one on interstate back in the 80's, but I never got up the nerve to get a better look, so I'll never know for sure what it was.

Well, I know what dead things smell like, I've found all sorts of dead animals and turtles and sadly that does include humans, (just for reference humans smell the worse of all dead creatures, yes really) this didn't smell like that, like I said it smell more musky, body odor-y, and just about brought tears to my eyes. It's one of those smell that if I ever smelled it again I'd recognize it immediately, but I can't verbally describe it to you accurately.

I'd be interested in hearing more about the possible dead Biggy on the interstate, if you don't want to discuss it in the open then please feel free to PM me. I assure you that whatever we discuss will remain between us unless you say different. My own "encounter" for lack of a better term is pretty mundane and can be explained by a number of other things other than a Bigfoot encounter. Actually, I really don't like to use the word "encounter" because it conjures up an image in the minds of most people that I think is misleading.

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I'm certain Bear Grylls Would not attempt 95% of the stunts he does with out the support team he has. Less is by far the more realistic and therefore better teacher of survival skills, IMO.

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I'm certain Bear Grylls Would not attempt 95% of the stunts he does with out the support team he has. Less is by far the more realistic and therefore better teacher of survival skills, IMO.

Come on evancj,

We all know it is safe to jump off of cliffs into untested depth waters, in the cold with only the clothes on your back to keep you dry.

Swinging off of trees, running down cliffs, climbing up cliffs....A broken leg or ankle won't hurt your chances of surviving will it?

And energy...All of the running around and such, waste as many calories as you can right?

Bear does not teach survival, he teaches the opposite.

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Come on evancj,

We all know it is safe to jump off of cliffs into untested depth waters, in the cold with only the clothes on your back to keep you dry.

Swinging off of trees, running down cliffs, climbing up cliffs....A broken leg or ankle won't hurt your chances of surviving will it?

And energy...All of the running around and such, waste as many calories as you can right?

Bear does not teach survival, he teaches the opposite.

Yeah I agree Bear takes way to many risks that if you were put in a real survival situation you just wouldnt take.

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Come on evancj,

We all know it is safe to jump off of cliffs into untested depth waters, in the cold with only the clothes on your back to keep you dry.

Swinging off of trees, running down cliffs, climbing up cliffs....A broken leg or ankle won't hurt your chances of surviving will it?

And energy...All of the running around and such, waste as many calories as you can right?

Bear does not teach survival, he teaches the opposite.

I guess your right Sakari. Perhaps the best survival strategy is to put yourself in an even more dangerous situation than the dangerous situation you are already in. :tu:

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Before you guys get all wet and sticky over Les, this from Wikipedia:

Survivorman is a Canadian-produced television program, broadcast in Canada on the Outdoor Life Network (OLN), and internationally on Discovery Channel and Science Channel. The show aired three seasons and 4 upcoming specials– 2004, 2007, 2008, and 2012.[1]

The title refers to the host of the show, Canadian filmmaker and survival expert Les Stroud, who used survival skills and knowledge to survive for up to seven days alone videotaping his adventures in remote locales where he brought with him little or no food, water, or equipment. According to the show's website, each location was scouted and pre-planned extensively by Stroud and his team who consulted with survival specialists and natives of each area. The fact that Stroud spent his time alone without a production crew is a major focus of the show.

During the videotaping of each episode, Stroud was alone and operated all the cameras himself, while his support team monitored him from a distance. He was equipped with only his clothes, camera equipment, his harmonica, a multi-tool, and often "everyday items" relevant to the episode's particular survival situation or locale. For safety purposes, Stroud carried an emergency satellite phone and normally had daily radio contact with his support crew that was always within rescue range.

He ain't so all lone as you might think, he has a support crew not too far away, they scout out the location first, then he consults with other experts. I can look like I have a clue surviving if I get to scout it out first then consult with "experts".

Gee, isn't that sort of like what you guys were bashing Bear for doing.......but this is Les so it's all good. Bear's big thing is talking about what other did or didn't do to survive, the biggest thing is keeping your head.

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He ain't so all lone as you might think, he has a support crew not too far away, they scout out the location first, then he consults with other experts. I can look like I have a clue surviving if I get to scout it out first then consult with "experts".

Gee, isn't that sort of like what you guys were bashing Bear for doing.......but this is Les so it's all good. Bear's big thing is talking about what other did or didn't do to survive, the biggest thing is keeping your head.

No that isnt what anyone has said. It is not the same. I dont care if you like Bear better or not it isnt an issue of who is better. All I pointed out was that one was more honest than the other. Les has always said that he has a support crew. He even mentions it in episodes and also makes mention of talking to experts about how to survive during episodes. what he doesnt do is say oh this looks like a great spot to make camp for me to sleep in tonight. basically giving you the impression that that is where he really is going to sleep. Then when the camera goes off he doesnt get on a helicopter and get flown to a nearby hotel for the night. (again I am refering to the early shows of bear's before he got cought fudging. The bottom line is that The survivorman show is more realistic and honest than Man vs wild. That is a fact.

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No that isnt what anyone has said. It is not the same. I dont care if you like Bear better or not it isnt an issue of who is better. All I pointed out was that one was more honest than the other. Les has always said that he has a support crew. He even mentions it in episodes and also makes mention of talking to experts about how to survive during episodes. what he doesnt do is say oh this looks like a great spot to make camp for me to sleep in tonight. basically giving you the impression that that is where he really is going to sleep. Then when the camera goes off he doesnt get on a helicopter and get flown to a nearby hotel for the night. (again I am refering to the early shows of bear's before he got cought fudging. The bottom line is that The survivorman show is more realistic and honest than Man vs wild. That is a fact.

I guess it just really comes down to who's "style" you like best. Although I heard Bears not working with the Discovery Channel anymore, I wonder what happened

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No that isnt what anyone has said. It is not the same. I dont care if you like Bear better or not it isnt an issue of who is better. All I pointed out was that one was more honest than the other. Les has always said that he has a support crew. He even mentions it in episodes and also makes mention of talking to experts about how to survive during episodes. what he doesnt do is say oh this looks like a great spot to make camp for me to sleep in tonight. basically giving you the impression that that is where he really is going to sleep. Then when the camera goes off he doesnt get on a helicopter and get flown to a nearby hotel for the night. (again I am refering to the early shows of bear's before he got cought fudging. The bottom line is that The survivorman show is more realistic and honest than Man vs wild. That is a fact.

*SNIP*

.....and that is the point, Les does the exact same things Bear did, only somehow when Bear did it it was all for show and faked and when Les did it he was being an expert to help you survive. Got caught fudging, when he had a disclaimer on the closing role telling you some scenes although staged depict actual fact. Jesus man! *SNIP*

Edited by Lilly
removed personal insults

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Ok, so let's just check the backgrounds of our respective TV hosts:

Les:

Stroud graduated from Mimico High School in the Mimico neighborhood of Toronto.[5] Stroud went on to complete the Music Industry Arts program at Fanshawe College in London, Ontario.[6] Stroud worked for several years at the Toronto-based music video channel MuchMusic, and as a songwriter for the band New Regime before a Temagami canoe trip sparked a career change.[1] During this time he also worked as garbage collector for the City of Toronto.[3] In 1990 Stroud became a guide for Black Feather Wilderness Adventures leading canoe excursions into the Northern Ontario wilds.[3] It was also during this time while on a survival course he met his future wife, photographer Sue Jamison.[2] They married in 1994 and together left for a year-long honeymoon in the remote Wabakimi area of Ontario which was to become the basis of the documentary Snowshoes and Solitude. Afterward, the couple moved to Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories where Stroud was employed as an outdoor instructor to special needs individuals of aboriginal descent.[7] Stroud and Jamison then settled in Huntsville, Ontario where they had two children and started both the outdoor instructional outfit Wilderness Voice and the media company Wilderness Spirit Productions.[6] Inspired by the popularity of the television show Survivor, Stroud pitched a more authentic version of the show to The Discovery Channel Canada. Stroud produced two programs titled One Week in the Wilderness and Winter in the Wilderness for @discovery.ca in 2001.[2] The success of these specials led to the development of Survivorman, a show that followed a similar format of leaving Stroud on his own, with minimal equipment, in the wilderness to videotape his survival experience.

Stroud has extensive experience with survival and primitive living skills, initially training with expert David Arama.[8][9] He went on to study with many others including John "Prairie Wolf" McPherson.[10]

Stroud has been an active participant in adventure racing and has competed at the Canadian championships.[8]

Bear:

Grylls grew up in Donaghadee, Northern Ireland until the age of 4 when his family moved to Bembridge on the Isle of Wight.[6][7] He is the son of the late Conservative party politician Sir Michael Grylls and Lady Sarah Grylls.[8] Lady Grylls was the daughter of Patricia Ford,[9] briefly an Ulster Unionist Party MP, and cricketer and businessman Neville Ford. Grylls has one sibling, an elder sister, Lara Fawcett, a cardio-tennis coach, who gave him the nickname 'Bear' when he was a week old.[10]

Grylls was educated at Eaton House, Ludgrove School, Eton College, where he helped start its first mountaineering club,[11] and Birkbeck, University of London,[12] where he graduated with a degree, obtained part-time, in Hispanic studies in 2002. From an early age, he learned to climb and sail from his father, who was a member of the prestigious Royal Yacht Squadron. As a teenager, he learned to skydive and earned a second dan black belt in Shotokan karate. He practices yoga and ninjutsu. At age eight he became a Cub Scout.[13] He speaks English, Spanish, and French.[14] Grylls is a Christian, describing his faith as the "backbone" in his life.[15]

Grylls married Shara Grylls (née Cannings Knight) in 2000.[3][9] They have three sons: Jesse, Marmaduke,[16] and Huckleberry.[5]

Military service

After leaving school, Grylls considered joining the Indian Army and hiked in the Himalayan mountains of Sikkim.[17] Grylls joined the British Army and served in the part-time United Kingdom Special Forces Reserve, with 21 Regiment Special Air Service, 21 SAS® for 3 years until 1996.

In 1996, he suffered a freefall parachuting accident in Zambia. His canopy ripped at 4,900 metres (16,000 ft), partially opening, causing him to fall and land on his parachute pack on his back, which partially crushed three vertebrae. Grylls later said: "I should have cut the main parachute and gone to the reserve but thought there was time to resolve the problem".[18] According to his surgeon, Grylls came "within a whisker" of being paralysed for life and at first it was questionable whether he would ever walk again. Grylls spent the next 12 months in and out of military rehabilitation at Headley Court[18] before being discharged and directing his efforts into trying to get well enough to fulfil his childhood dream of climbing Mount Everest.

In 2004, Grylls was awarded the honorary rank of Lieutenant Commander in the Royal Naval Reserve for services to charity and human endeavour.[19]

Everest

On 16 May 1998, Grylls achieved his childhood dream (an ambition since his father gave him a picture of Everest when he was eight) and entered the Guinness Book of Records, as the youngest Briton, at 23, to summit Mount Everest, just eighteen months after injuring his back. James Allen, an Australian climber who ascended Everest in 1995 with an Australian team, but who has dual Australian/British citizenship, reached the summit at age 22.[20][21] Grylls' record has since been surpassed by Jake Meyer and, at age 19, by Rob Gauntlett.)

Other expeditions

Circumnavigation of the UK

In 2000, Grylls, led the first team to circumnavigate the UK on a personal watercraft or jet ski, taking about 30 days, to raise money for the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI). He also rowed naked for 22 miles in a homemade bathtub along the Thames to raise funds for a friend who lost his legs in a climbing accident.[22]

Crossing the North Atlantic

Three years later, he led a team of five, including his childhood friend, SAS colleague, and Mount Everest climbing partner Mick Crosthwaite, on the first unassisted crossing of the north Atlantic Arctic Ocean, in an open rigid inflatable boat. Suffering weeks of frozen spray and icebergs, battling force 8 gale winds, hypothermia, and storms in an eleven-metre-long boat through some of the most treacherous stretches of water in the world including the Labrador Sea, the Denmark Strait, and the stretch made famous by The Perfect Storm, Grylls and his team were just barely able to finish the journey from Halifax, Nova Scotia to John o' Groats, Scotland.

Paramotoring over Angel Falls

In 2005, Grylls led the first team ever to attempt to paramotor over the remote jungle plateau of the Angel Falls in Venezuela, the world's highest waterfall. The team was attempting to reach the highest, most remote tepuis.

Dinner party at altitude

In 2005, alongside the balloonist and mountaineer David Hempleman-Adams and Lieutenant Commander Alan Veal, leader of the Royal Navy Freefall Parachute Display Team, Grylls created a world record for the highest open-air formal dinner party, which they did under a hot-air balloon at 7,600 metres (25,000 ft), dressed in full mess dress and oxygen masks. To train for the event, he made over 200 parachute jumps. This was in aid of The Duke of Edinburgh's Award and The Prince's Trust.

Paramotoring over the Himalayas

In 2007, Grylls claimed to have broken a new world record by flying a Parajet paramotor over the Himalayas, higher than Mount Everest.[23] Grylls took off from 4,400 metres (14,500 ft), 8 miles south of the mountain. Grylls reported looking down on the summit during his ascent and coping with temperatures of −60 °C (−76 °F). He endured dangerously low oxygen levels and eventually reached 9,000 metres (29,500 ft), almost 3,000 metres (10,000 ft) higher than the previous record of 6,102 metres (20,019 ft). The feat was filmed for Discovery Channel worldwide as well as Channel 4 in the UK.[24]

While Grylls initially planned to cross over Everest itself, the permit was only to fly to the south of Everest, and he did not traverse Everest out of risk of violating Chinese airspace.[25]

Journey Antarctica 2008

In 2008, Grylls lead a team of four to climb one of the most remote unclimbed peaks in the world in Antarctica. This was raising funds for Global Angels kids charity and awareness for the potential of alternative energies. During this mission the team also aimed to explore the coast of Antarctica by inflatable boat and jetski, part powered by bioethanol, and then to travel across some of the vast ice desert by wind-powered kite-ski and electric powered paramotor. However, the expedition was cut short after Grylls suffered a broken shoulder while kite skiing across a stretch of ice. Travelling at speeds up to 50 km/h (30 mph), a ski caught on the ice, launching him in the air and breaking his shoulder when he came down. He had to be medically evacuated.[26]

Longest indoor freefall

Grylls, along with the double amputee Al Hodgson and the Scotsman Freddy MacDonald, set a Guinness world record in 2008 for the longest continuous indoor freefall.[27] The previous record was 1 hour 36 minutes by a US team. Grylls, Hodgson, and MacDonald, using a vertical wind tunnel in Milton Keynes, broke the record by a few seconds. The attempt was in support of the charity Global Angels.

Northwest Passage expedition

In August 2010, Grylls lead a team of five to take an ice-breaking rigid-inflatable boat (RIB) through 2,500 miles (4,000 km) of the ice strewn Northwest Passage. The expedition intended to raise awareness of the effects of global warming and to raise money for children's charity Global Angels.[28]

You guys *SNIP* call him a real expert but he has not real back ground in it.

Edited by Lilly
removed personal insult

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The personal flame war currently taking place here will stop immediately. Discuss the topic and be civil towards those who hold differing opinions.

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A lot of Discussion Out There About Is Survivorman Fake or Real

With the popularity of the TV show survivorman there has been a lot of discussion and debate online and in the wilderness survival forums about is Survivorman fake or real? This page strips apart the controversy and only looks at the facts. Some sites claim survivorman is a fake and then give some explanation as to why but never really back it up. So we've taken a hard look at these discussions and then way the discussion and what can actually be verified.

So hopefully this page will clear up once and for all for you to decide is Survivorman fake or real?

Full article : http://www.squidoo.com/survivorman-fake

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Bottom line for me...Bear will teach the majority of us how to kill ourselves before we starve to death, while Les will show us how to stick around long enough to hopefully get rescued. The key idea in the "I'm stuck in the wilderness survival" scenario is to reduce the potential of injury and death to a minimum, not to increase them by preforming unnecessary and dangerous stunts.

I have all the respect in the world for Mr. Grylls, but the majority of people out there are not in peak physical condition. Nor do most people have the military training and mountaineering experience to successfully pull off the stunts Mr. Grylls does on his show. In my opinion Bear's show is more a demonstration of "escape and evade survival" than the "I'm stuck in the wilderness survival" situation.

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I have all the respect in the world for Mr. Grylls, but the majority of people out there are not in peak physical condition. Nor do most people have the military training and mountaineering experience to successfully pull off the stunts Mr. Grylls does on his show. In my opinion Bear's show is more a demonstration of "escape and evade survival" than the "I'm stuck in the wilderness survival" situation.

That's kind of the point, escape and get out. As far as being in shape, if you're an out of shape lard bucket then odds are you didn't have any business getting yourself into a situation like that to begin with, you can't save some people from themselves. If you decide to head out into the wildeness and you're not prepared.......and that includes being in a shape other than round...........then you need to stay at the campsite, near a cell phone where you can call for help.

Being out in the wildeness carries with it the chance of being put into a survival situation. Les has an approach and Bear has another, being ex-millitary myself I can relate to Bear better than I can Les.

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Let's throw a 3rd option in...I actually enjoy this show, as they both give good advice. And yes, it appears they have a camera crew, but to me, it is the education, not the action. The video may be a poor example of what they teach. They are great on staying warm, food, water, etc...

Dual Survival

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That's kind of the point, escape and get out.

Escape and evade, in my mind means someone is hunting you down to kill you or capture you. In this case the high risk techniques Bear demonstrates are an acceptable alternative to being captured or killed.

Personally I will take the slow careful walk, and safest undramatic route off the mountain, rather than running down a scree slope, climbing down roots and falling off a cliff.

As far as being in shape, if you're an out of shape lard bucket then odds are you didn't have any business getting yourself into a situation like that to begin with, you can't save some people from themselves. If you decide to head out into the wildeness and you're not prepared.......and that includes being in a shape other than round...........then you need to stay at the campsite, near a cell phone where you can call for help.

What people should do and what they do, do (ha ha, I said doo-doo) are two different things. Fact of the matter is even out of shape people can drive snowmobiles, and other vehicles out into the wilderness and get stuck, or broke down. Happens all the time.

Being out in the wildeness carries with it the chance of being put into a survival situation. Les has an approach and Bear has another, being ex-millitary myself I can relate to Bear better than I can Les.

I'm ex-military as well and I can relate to Bear just fine, but you know as well as I do, any time we did risky training we always had medics on site and medical EVACS standing by. Attempting to do some of the things Bear does on his show by yourself in the middle of nowhere with no one to help you if things go wrong is foolish in my opinion.

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Let's throw a 3rd option in...I actually enjoy this show, as they both give good advice. And yes, it appears they have a camera crew, but to me, it is the education, not the action. The video may be a poor example of what they teach. They are great on staying warm, food, water, etc...

Dual Survival

[media=]

[/media]

:w00t:

I saw that one...if I remember correctly the idiot ex-military guy actually cut himself on purpose and then pored gun powder on the wound and lit it on fire to close the wound.

They do have some great tips. It's an older Bear meets a hippie Les.

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:w00t:

I saw that one...if I remember correctly the idiot ex-military guy actually cut himself on purpose and then pored gun powder on the wound and lit it on fire to close the wound.

They do have some great tips. It's an older Bear meets a hippie Les.

That is true, although this military guy does make it clear, save energy, stay dry, stay warm, avoid injuries at all costs.....Something Bear does not exactly lead by example in.

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I'm ex-military as well and I can relate to Bear just fine, but you know as well as I do, any time we did risky training we always had medics on site and medical EVACS standing by. Attempting to do some of the things Bear does on his show by yourself in the middle of nowhere with no one to help you if things go wrong is foolish in my opinion.

True, that's the difference between training and the real thing, in training you have a safety net, when it's real you're on your own. However, he goes through what real people in real situations encountered, most of the one he cites are the ones who didn't make it. Bottom line is if you're not up to what might happen then you need to stay home on the couch and watch TV.

Worst thing that can happen to you is to panic. Back in the day I was with some guys who were practicing for their map reading merit badges. So his Dad took us out and dropped us off in a relatively remote, it wasn't really but it was an area we we're all that familiar with, so following the map was important. Ok, so we head out and we're following his navigation. I was the Senior Patrol Leader and already had my merit badge so I was sort of the guy responsible for them. We hikes for nearly ten hours and I saw it would be dark soon and asked him when we were going to get to the location he'd planned for us to camp. He got this vacant look on his face, then sudden he freaked out and said he had the wrong map. Well this sent the third guy into his panic mode, completely freaked out and took off running in a dead panic. I told the one guy to sit down and stay put and I dropped my pack and went after guy number three. By the time I caught up with him he'd dropped his gear, striped off his coat and shirt and was so freaked out he couldn't respond to me calling him. I had to tackle his ass and slap the crap out of him to listen. So I finally got him under control but he was only a hairs breathe away from freaking out again.

I get him back and we gather up his stuff on the way back and we make camp. Then I looked at the map and told them we didn't have any problems. We'd followed the map in, all we had to do was follow the map in reverse to get out. Not only that but I'd made some mental notes of certain landmarks so getting back wasn't a big deal. Next morning we walked out, his Dad was waiting for us and all was well. However, it's a great example of how panic can screw the pouch.

Hey, you want to follow the Les method, knock yourself out. I'm not much for sitting around and waiting for help to arrive when all I have is me to be worried about.

Of course, I could have opted to set one of the guys on fire; dinner and a camp fire all in one operation.

Edited by keninsc

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