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dougeaton

Athiesm as an escape from reality?

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Well since you are a village atheist, no I really don't, anymore that I would take anything seriously from those who belong to the Westboro Bapt. Church.

doug

More anti-atheist BS........why do you have so much hatred for us? Did an atheist push you down in the schoolyard as a child?

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Well since you are a village atheist, no I really don't, anymore that I would take anything seriously from those who belong to the Westboro Bapt. Church.

doug

and here you loose all credibility. Has Euphorbia ever called for the death of anyone have they caled believes evil and should rot in dirt, NO so your example tells more of your extrimism no one elses.

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The below, what you said was just you telling me and those who believe how superior you are and strong and yes how you face reality while believers don't....in other words you believe that theist are crazy or worse. I am not a believer but I do have a an understanding of faith that you seem to be missing.....I would suggest that you tear down your straw man and start to look at things a bit more objectively. You atheist are just as much a problem as fundie believers. Even you last sentence is condescending. I don't expect you to see it, atheist after all have no soul to look into.

I'd suggest you not make straw men, but then the majority of your posts wouldn't exist.
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and here you loose all credibility. Has Euphorbia ever called for the death of anyone have they caled believes evil and should rot in dirt, NO so your example tells more of your extrimism no one elses.

I think the description is more apt for the original poster.

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"If you must have finale absolute answers, then become an hard nosed atheist or a fundie of any religion, both seem to be black and white thinkers, and have only contempt for those who think differently."

Well since you are a village atheist, no I really don't, anymore that I would take anything seriously from those who belong to the Westboro Bapt. Church.

doug

Comparing the first quote with the second (both yours), I think maybe that it's you that has "contempt" for those that think differently. You call yourself agnostic (maybe you are) but you clearly have a huge problem with atheism. If you can deal with that you may be able to generate more useful discussions, rather than resorting to name-calling. I don't know what a 'village atheist' is, but I'll bet it's not a compliment.

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"There is no stronger drug than reality." Nevermore

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Atheism is an escape from reality, but not a very successful one for the usual supects around here, who seem compelled to argue the point interminably. Why would you bother ? To save the world from superstition ? I can think of more pressing problems in the world. But, hey, if it makes you feel better......we all have our nagging doubts to contend with.

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It is the THEISTS who are escaping from REALITY. I mean like do you believe that you were created from mud and dust and that when you die you will rise up to the sky majestically and grow wings living in eternal happiness?

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I think they think that since they are a theist and you are not, then you are escaping their reality of them being superior.

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Atheism is an escape from reality, but not a very successful one for the usual supects around here, who seem compelled to argue the point interminably. Why would you bother ? To save the world from superstition ? I can think of more pressing problems in the world. But, hey, if it makes you feel better......we all have our nagging doubts to contend with.

Take a look at the drunk with blood link in my signature, do you honestly believe "god" to be sane?

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I think both atheism and theism are irrational, since neither can be proven, though I also believe that it is not irrational to believe either way. Science and logic and rational thought have limits I believe and anyone who says differently will have to get rid of many beliefs....since what gives our lives meaning has more to do with metaphycial beliefs.

doug

What is more irrational:

Trying to prove something that there is no evidence for? And believing it anyway?

Or not believing in something because there is no evidence to support it whatsoever?

I'll rephrase: Is it more irrational to believe in something there is no evidence for, or to not believe in something there is no evidence for?

Edited by Timonthy
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What is more irrational:

Trying to prove something that there is no evidence for? And believing it anyway?

Or not believing in something because there is no evidence to support it whatsoever?

The assumption that this "something" must be accessible to "rational" enquiry or be deemed non-existent, is simply a matter of the limitations of science, and has no bearing on whether the "something" is real. The modern mindset would have you believe science is the be-all and end-all of knowledge acquisition, that is an assumption no less pernicious than that of "gospel truth".

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Atheism is an escape from reality, but not a very successful one for the usual supects around here, who seem compelled to argue the point interminably. Why would you bother ? To save the world from superstition ? I can think of more pressing problems in the world. But, hey, if it makes you feel better......we all have our nagging doubts to contend with.

Look around the world and the answer is yes.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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The very title of this thread implies that you think you know what reality is; describing a belief system as "escapist" reveals a decidely un-agnostic stance.

When it comes right down to it, atheism, theism, and agnosticism are all subjective beliefs (the last being a belief in something being unknowable) regarding a very subjective topic. One is not inherently better than another.

Edited by Cybele
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The assumption that this "something" must be accessible to "rational" enquiry or be deemed non-existent, is simply a matter of the limitations of science, and has no bearing on whether the "something" is real. The modern mindset would have you believe science is the be-all and end-all of knowledge acquisition, that is an assumption no less pernicious than that of "gospel truth".

The irrationality of a thing is no argument against its existence, rather a condition of it.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

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The below, what you said was just you telling me and those who believe how superior you are and strong and yes how you face reality while believers don't....in other words you believe that theist are crazy or worse. I am not a believer but I do have a an understanding of faith that you seem to be missing.....I would suggest that you tear down your straw man and start to look at things a bit more objectively. You atheist are just as much a problem as fundie believers. Even you last sentence is condescending. I don't expect you to see it, atheist after all have no soul to look into.

Well now, that was just harsh and mean spirited. Quite uncalled for.

This is one problem that I have with a few agnostics, and anyone else really when they think they 'see both sides', if you don't really have a stance on an issue, how can you have an understanding of either end? If you claim agnosticism, then claim atheists don't understand theists, and vice versa, what makes agnostics so special that they understand both sides? Or in this case, you so special?

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You may be an exception, there are not many of you who carry that label.

I just think you are generalizing. In my experience, atheists are more like myself than the vocal few you see all over the internet. Same with religious people. The extreme crazy ones do not define all of them.

Edit: Also, you comments about souls is very un agnostic. Wouldn't an agnostic be unsure of the existence of such things? I've seen some of your other threads and you had a definite bias toward theism. I don't think you're very agnostic at all. You clearly has some ax to grind with atheists.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1

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The assumption that this "something" must be accessible to "rational" enquiry or be deemed non-existent, is simply a matter of the limitations of science, and has no bearing on whether the "something" is real. The modern mindset would have you believe science is the be-all and end-all of knowledge acquisition, that is an assumption no less pernicious than that of "gospel truth".

Can't you answer plainly?

There could be a giant purple giraffe behind you. Do you think there is or not? Giving that there is no evidence of it being there?

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Atheist live for themselves, their life, their loved ones, all else is unimportant, there is no big picture, we live, find some happiness and then die.....easy and simple.

As does everyone else.
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Can't you answer plainly?

There could be a giant purple giraffe behind you. Do you think there is or not? Giving that there is no evidence of it being there?

Nothing clever about that argument, that proposition is accessible to rational enquiry. Try again.

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Nothing clever about that argument, that proposition is accessible to rational enquiry. Try again.

Are you saying god is only accessible to irrational enquiry?

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Are you saying god is only accessible to irrational enquiry?

Not accessible by any kind of "enquiry", only by grace.

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Not accessible by any kind of "enquiry", only by grace.

What do you mean, 'by grace'? Could you be more specific?

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What do you mean, 'by grace'? Could you be more specific?

Good question. It can be interpreted many ways, but it implies to some degree at least, a fortuitous concurrence of circumstances that readies, or predisposes you to be receptive to the divinity. I suppose it is a bit like luck, you can make your own luck to some extent, but beyond that is a large measure of happenstance, whether that is random or guided by an unseen hand we cannot tell.

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Actually for believers there is proof and a lot of books out there that make a good case of it.

By this standard, CS Lewis had proof of talking lions.

There is no such thing as different types of proof. Using the scientific method, we can explain the universe pretty well as it is. A lot of the stuff we know know the answer for yet (the origin of life for example), is not an excuse to start envoking any god. And as for subjective experience (ghosts, new age energy etc), there is nothing to explain.

Proof, no, but it shows that there are good rational reason for believing in a deity.

How can it not be proof but still be a rational reason for believing??

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