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CommunitarianKevin

Study finds birth control cuts abortion rates

59 posts in this topic

Emotionalism, that's a new one, I like it. I never said I liked Obamacare. That is the one thing I have no strong opinion on either way...

But since being in a field gives you a more valid say, my wife works in the field, a 4 year RN working in a hospital. In her free time she researches the healthcare system and specifically the birthing industry. We have watched numberous documentaries on the topic. The ones on the birthing industry are mind blowing. We have the highest infant mortality rate and maternal death rate in developed countries. We also have the highest healthcare costs in the world and the most total money going to healthcare, yet we cover few people and give them poorer treatment than other developed countries.

Taiwan was looking for a new healthcare system so they got a group of Ph.D.s to study all the healthcare systems of the world to find the best. They were asked about the U.S. model and they said that is the perfect example of how NOT to do things.

The fact of the matter is that we have a crappy healthcare system compared to other developed countires and it needs to change to cover more people, be cheaper, and be better in general. We need a massive change and a massive overhaul. People like you can sit around and accept it. I hope for, and hopefully fight for, change.

I won't get into great detail here on why our healthcare is so expensive but next time you go to the doctor take a close look at your bill. You will see the doctor is charging say $5,000.00 for the procedure. The bill will say the insurance company has paid $800, the amount a preferred provider has agreed to accept for this procedure. your copay lets say is 10% so $80.00. You will see that there is a discrepancy of $4,120.00. That where the IRS comes in. This $4,120.00 is a tax write off for the doctor or hospital. The IRS is the reason healthcare costs are through the roof. If you don't have insurance you will be expected to pay $5000 dollars instead $80 or even $880. The IRS and hospitals greed are the real reason healthcare costs are through the roof but you never ever hear any politicians addressing this.

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So life is all about doing the do now? Sure, when you want babies, but why does it have to be a recreational sport to most people?

Biologically speaking, that is what life is all about...why do people do it a lot? It is in our DNA, it ensures our survival. Some people just don't have any self control...

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If the cost of abortions and unwanted births were to come into it, wouldn't free birth control counter this? I would think that $15 per month for birth control would be a hell of a lot cheaper than an abortion. Preventative measures, people.

So life is all about doing the do now? Sure, when you want babies, but why does it have to be a recreational sport to most people?
Yeah, I agree, but life happens and we don't always make great decisions, especially when alcohol is added in the mix. So, let's look at the 'what if' before it happens.

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So life is all about doing the do now? Sure, when you want babies, but why does it have to be a recreational sport to most people?

Exactly. We've been hypnotized into believing that sex is the be all end all. It's not.

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Who said something about recreational sport, for me it would be totally irresponsible at my age to father any children, just as an example. But sex still is important in my relationship.

True, and when people are responsible, it's their prerogative to do it. For myself though? No thank you, lol.

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I won't get into great detail here on why our healthcare is so expensive but next time you go to the doctor take a close look at your bill. You will see the doctor is charging say $5,000.00 for the procedure. The bill will say the insurance company has paid $800, the amount a preferred provider has agreed to accept for this procedure. your copay lets say is 10% so $80.00. You will see that there is a discrepancy of $4,120.00. That where the IRS comes in. This $4,120.00 is a tax write off for the doctor or hospital. The IRS is the reason healthcare costs are through the roof. If you don't have insurance you will be expected to pay $5000 dollars instead $80 or even $880. The IRS and hospitals greed are the real reason healthcare costs are through the roof but you never ever hear any politicians addressing this.

I am not sure how it being a writeoffs makes the IRS greedy...Maybe I am understanding it incorrectly, but write offs do not make the IRS money...

Of course the hospitals are greedy...it is called capitalism...no one has a business to not make money. Politicians may not address it directly but I think the Dems do a better job of trying to curb this. The reason I do not think the Repub and Libertarian view (total free market capitalism) works is because of greed. That is why I strongly perfer the liberal ecomonic stance (caplitalism with a lot of goverment regulation.) I trust our government, made up of elected officials, more than I trust a CEO and a corporation.

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I am not sure how it being a writeoffs makes the IRS greedy...Maybe I am understanding it incorrectly, but write offs do not make the IRS money...

Of course the hospitals are greedy...it is called capitalism...no one has a business to not make money. Politicians may not address it directly but I think the Dems do a better job of trying to curb this. The reason I do not think the Repub and Libertarian view (total free market capitalism) works is because of greed. That is why I strongly perfer the liberal ecomonic stance (caplitalism with a lot of goverment regulation.) I trust our government, made up of elected officials, more than I trust a CEO and a corporation.

Especially then when you are capable and willing to fire them on poor performance... something yet to happen. See Congress.

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Exactly. We've been hypnotized into believing that sex is the be all end all. It's not.

Meh, Europeans have more sex, start at a younger age, and are more open about it...they also have few issues than we do...The problem is that it is seen as a taboo.

I think people just need to increase their standards and not have sex with anything that has the proper anatomy. It is okay to turn someone down...

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Especially then when you are capable and willing to fire them on poor performance... something yet to happen. See Congress.

A CEO will not be fired for being greedy and taking advantage of people as long as they are making a profit. Congress can be fired but it turns out that everyone loves their congress person, so they re-elect them. That is their problem...the fact is, they are elected...we could fire all of them and start from scratch...we choose not too...

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What I was getting at is they are charging $10,000.00 for a procedure they know they will only get paid $880.00 on, because they can then write off the remainder. I believe they are getting paid what the procedure is worth and the write off is for a dihonest amount. Thus th IRS is complicit in the fraud that makes US healthcare costs so high. I really don't know this as a fact but look at you next hospital bill and wonder how they can really afford to take $880.00 for a $10,000.00 procedure. It's the only thing that makes sense and explains why procedures in the USA cost more than they do in other countries.

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Meh, Europeans have more sex, start at a younger age, and are more open about it...they also have few issues than we do...The problem is that it is seen as a taboo.

I think people just need to increase their standards and not have sex with anything that has the proper anatomy. It is okay to turn someone down...

I'm not arguing against birth control, I'm arguing that people using it should pay the $15.00 a month themselves.
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I'm not arguing against birth control, I'm arguing that people using it should pay the $15.00 a month themselves.

I argue that those $15 a month are way cheaper than having another kid on welfare.

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I'm not arguing against birth control, I'm arguing that people using it should pay the $15.00 a month themselves.

I agree with the principle. I would pay, I have no problem...but believe it or not, some people do have problems paying for it and they are the ones that need it the most.

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I argue that those $15 a month are way cheaper than having another kid on welfare.

Take that $15 multiply it by every woman on birht control and calculate the real cost. Duh.

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Take that $15 multiply it by every woman on birht control and calculate the real cost. Duh.

But it does not result in just 1 child that government money pays for...A child costs more than 15 dollars...

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But it does not result in just 1 child that government money pays for...A child costs more than 15 dollars...

very duh!

But I have faith that straining his brain a little he would have come to the same conclusion, latest when they increase his taxes to pay for more food stamps :devil:

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wow! .. who knew!? i wonder if it has anything to do with FEWER PREGNANCIES? :huh:

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LOL! You guys are exhausting. How about if the president just declares everything free! Why not, who need profits?

Edited by OverSword

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Quick B.S. Fact here. there are 311,591,917 women in the USA. to make up for the amount of money being lost on BC copays $15 a pop, per month, per woman the insurance companies will only have to raise overall premiums by $56,086,545,060 a year to make up for losses being incurred by having free BC.

56 trillion and change. That sounds reasonable just so the president can buy the womens vote

Edited by OverSword

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Thus th IRS is complicit in the fraud t

The IRS just enforces the law. If any one is "complicit", it's congress.

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The problem with Obama's pandering to women by giving them free birth control is that the average co-pay on BC for women in America is $15.00 a month. Just because the government says it's now free it doesn't magically become free. That cost will be made up for by yet another increase in premiums.

So take every women in the USA that get BC through insurance multiply that number by $15.00, and add that to your employers premuims. The republicans are not trying to outlaw birth control they're trying to keep insurances increases lower. How can people not get that?

Except, I never had a health plan that covered birth control, ever! If I had, I'd have gladly paid the 15$ co-pay... as it were, I ended up going to PP most of my reproductive years so I could get it for between $15-20 a month.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Meh, Europeans have more sex, start at a younger age, and are more open about it...they also have few issues than we do...The problem is that it is seen as a taboo.

I think people just need to increase their standards and not have sex with anything that has the proper anatomy. It is okay to turn someone down...

lol your making Europeans sound a bit promiscuous there. Europe has the same issues. But the difference is that Europe doesn't have the tendency to let religion dictate health policies. Of course there are also extreme conservatists, but their voice is not as powerful as the voice of reason and logic. The policies aren't guided about what the church deems a sin. It's about what makes the most sense dealing with the current situations.

LOL! You guys are exhausting. How about if the president just declares everything free! Why not, who need profits?

In Europe, several countries have the policy that certain generic brands of birth control are free until the age of 21. Then they raise the price, and from the age of 25 or 26 you pay full price.

I find that very sensible.

Edited by Render
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But they could. That is my argument. Do do not HAVE to raise prices. They choose to. That is the problem with our system. That is the problem with having private healthcare. IMO healthcare should not be about capitalism, it should be about care...

Health care isnt about capitalism. Not even close. The whole game has been rigged. Once government started flipping the bill through medicare/aid capitalism was thrown out the window. Its a damn shame too cause before that people could afford to pay outta pocket for minor emergency room visits, or a trip to the doctor for basic care. All competition has been eliminated. Insurance companies are running monopolies in each state. Some states having as many as 2 insurance providers. And now 0bama has forced the American people to buy insurance from for profit companies, and has done nothing to eliminate the monopolies run by these criminals. These is nothing about our health care system that represents free market capitalism. And now you want the same people who have created this mess, to fix it.

Edited by preacherman76
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LOL! You guys are exhausting. How about if the president just declares everything free! Why not, who need profits?

That would be a stupid idea...Not everything should be free, but I believe some things should be...or they should not be profit driven. The people making the profit do not care about the people...that is the problem...

Health care isnt about capitalism. Not even close. The whole game has been rigged. Once government started flipping the bill through medicare/aid capitalism was thrown out the window. Its a damn shame too cause before that people could afford to pay outta pocket for minor emergency room visits, or a trip to the doctor for basic care. All competition has been eliminated. Insurance companies are running monopolies in each state. Some states having as many as 2 insurance providers. And now 0bama has forced the American people to buy insurance from for profit companies, and has done nothing to eliminate the monopolies run by these criminals. These is nothing about our health care system that represents free market capitalism. And now you want the same people who have created this mess, to fix it.

Yes, it is about capitalism. You do know that free market captialism is not the only type of capitalism right? There is varying government regulation in capitalistic models and the U.S. is right in the middle. Norway and Sweden are examples of a lot of government regulation, way more than the U.S. but they are capitalistic non the less.

I did not say the government has not caused problems and I did not say I support Obamacare...what I said was WE HAVE MAJOR ISSUES IN OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND NEED REFORM. I would prefer socialized healthcare. I would not trust free market capitalism as the best method for healthcare. I base this on real world examples and logic flaws in free market capitalism.

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Id rather trust the market before I trusted the government. Why would you trust a government who has allowed this to take place?

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