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Still Waters

Stephen Fry: "only humans are homophobic"

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How come only 260 spieces have homosexual tendencies? How is that possible? How can one spieces have those tendencies and the other don't??

That's confusing. :blink:

There are far more than 260. There are thousands. Everything from mammals to birds to fish and insects and then some.

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Only to those who don't believe in Him.

Believers don't even do everything god said in his magic book, so that argument can be thrown out.

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Believers don't even do everything god said in his magic book, so that argument can be thrown out.

That is a riduclous conclusion. It doesn't make any sense and only shows your lack of understanding.

Those who believe in God are not sinless. No one has claimed otherwise.

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That is a riduclous conclusion. It doesn't make any sense and only shows your lack of understanding.

Those who believe in God are not sinless. No one has claimed otherwise.

I'm saying you can't use it as a justification for hating gays when you don't follow the other laws of your book of jewish fairy tales.

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I'm saying you can't use it as a justification for hating gays when you don't follow the other laws of your book of jewish fairy tales.

Whoah... when did I say I hate or even dislike "gays?"

You have no idea who my friends are, what my own sexual identity is, or any conflicts I have may have faced along the way regarding sexuality.

People who believe in God and the Bible most definitely struggle with following His path. No one (certainly not me anyway) has stated otherwise.

That, however, does not mean they don't recognize His laws and do their best to not only follow them, but seek forgiveness when they fail to do so.

A person can struggle with homosexuality themselves while still believing in God and the Bible. They can believe (or perhaps even know) it is wrong while still either participating in homosexual acts and/or having homosexual thoughts that tempt them to do such things.

As for your "magical" and "fairy tale" comments referring to the Bible you state foolish things. Willingly turn away from God, let alone mock Him, and you fill find yourself in darkness when all is said and done.

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Whoah... when did I say I hate or even dislike "gays?"

You have no idea who my friends are, what my own sexual identity is, or any conflicts I have may have faced along the way regarding sexuality.

People who believe in God and the Bible most definitely struggle with following His path. No one (certainly not me anyway) has stated otherwis

That, however, does not mean they don't recognize His laws and do their best to not only follow them, but seek forgiveness when they fail to do so.

A person can struggle with homosexuality themselves while still believing in God and the Bible. They can believe (or perhaps even know) it is wrong while still either participating in homosexual acts and/or having homosexual thoughts that tempt them to do such things.

Homosexuality is not wrong. It's biological.

As for your "magical" and "fairy tale" comments referring to the Bible you state foolish things. Willingly turn away from God, let alone mock Him, and you fill find yourself in darkness when all is said and done.

Never said I was talking about you, buddy.

And I will continue to mock and turn away from your imaginary god every chance I get. And I'll love doing it, too.

Edited by Imaginarynumber1
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Willingly turn away from God, let alone mock Him

How does one turn away from a being they do not believe exists.. What is there to turn away from exactly?

and you fill find yourself in darkness when all is said and done.

If you are in complete darkness..how would you find yourself? lol Who said anyone will be in darkness ?

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Hang on a minute, the word 'homophobic' is a made up word & is meaningless in the context of the animal kingdom. It's a bit like saying 'there arn't any facists or communists in the animal knigdom. Besides, 'phobic' pertains to 'an allergy or irrational fear' of something & in this context i don't think there are people with an allergy or irrational fear of homosexuals.

I fully believe and have met people who have an irrational fear of homosexuals.

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As a red blooded god fearing man who has hobbies including diving fishing and hunting. And one who is hetero and enjoys a beer (but never into sport) . I've never understood homophobia. I have a lesbian friend. I have gay Co workers. My parents were friends with a young gay couple when I was a kid and I have an elderly gay couple next door who we chat to regularly. Their homosexuality does not make them better or worse people. They accept me I accept them and it doesn't affect my life one iota. Live and let live. I judge people on their actions not their choice of consenting adult partner :-)

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I agree with Stephen Fry's opinion on the subject.

I happen to believe that each human being has their own state of mind and their own beliefs, You should not be told how to live your life just because others do not like the way you are.

Continue to live this life as if their is nobody else watching what you do, be free and love as you wish.

Edited by TheLogic

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How does one turn away from a being they do not believe exists.. What is there to turn away from exactly?

If you are in complete darkness..how would you find yourself? lol Who said anyone will be in darkness ?

Religion clouds everything and this world would be a better place without it,as far as i am concerned,homosexuality is as normal as being heterosexual and who cares what the church thinks as they are irrelevent in the 21st century and are bigoted and out of touch..

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Homosexuality is not wrong. It's biological.

That is debatable.

As humans we have minds capable of determining right from wrong in ways no other species can.

You can state sex in general is biological, but as humans we know that that alone does not make it acceptable for us to cheat on our significant others.

Getting rid of bodily waste by urinating or bowel movements is biological, yet it does not mean it is proper for us as humans to do these things anywhere we please in the same manner animals do.

Many animals have sexual altercations with their family members, yet again, this is not right for us as humans to do the same.

There are many examples of this.

Never said I was talking about you, buddy.

You should have been clearer with your remark. Whether you were referring directly to me or not, you certainly seemed to lump me in with the group you were commenting on.

And I will continue to mock and turn away from your imaginary god every chance I get. And I'll love doing it, too.

That won't get you far. You should let go of your hate.

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How does one turn away from a being they do not believe exists.. What is there to turn away from exactly?

Simply because a person does not believe in God does not mean He is not real. Being that He is real, you (in the general sense) are denying and turning away from Him by not recognizing his existance.

As for what you are turning away from, the answer to that is you are turning away from God's calling. At the moment I do not have the time to go into what all of that entails.

If you are in complete darkness..how would you find yourself? lol Who said anyone will be in darkness ?

Turn to God and He will lead you out of darkness.

God also tells of those who live in darnkness to answer your second question. The thing is, many of those who live in this darkness do not realize they are doing so. This is the result of turning away from God to begin with.

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That is debatable.

As humans we have minds capable of determining right from wrong in ways no other species can.

You can state sex in general is biological, but as humans we know that that alone does not make it acceptable for us to cheat on our significant others.

Getting rid of bodily waste by urinating or bowel movements is biological, yet it does not mean it is proper for us as humans to do these things anywhere we please in the same manner animals do.

Many animals have sexual altercations with their family members, yet again, this is not right for us as humans to do the same.

There are many examples of this.

Culture defines what is and is not acceptable. Biology is not debatable.

Homosexuality cannot be right or wrong anymore than heterosexuality is.

You should have been clearer with your remark. Whether you were referring directly to me or not, you certainly seemed to lump me in with the group you were commenting on.

If the shoe fits...

That won't get you far. You should let go of your hate.

I don't have any hate to let go of. In fact, I see nothing hateful in what I said.

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Simply because a person does not believe in God does not mean He is not real.

Simply because a person believes in god does not mean he is real.

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Simply because a person does not believe in God does not mean He is not real.

If you do not believe in any god... then you will not think you have turned away from god.. in your mind, there is nothing there to turn away from.

As for what you are turning away from, the answer to that is you are turning away from God's calling.

If I believed and followed a god that was not the same as your god, and I claimed it was your god.. You will not hold belief's in my god..in your mind, my god does not exist for you.. Does it mean you have turned away from my god too?

Turn to God and He will lead you out of darkness.

But ......I am not in darkness.. Well accept at night, that's a given lol

The thing is, many of those who live in this darkness do not realize they are doing so. This is the result of turning away from God to begin with.

Hang on... - Those who do not hold belief's in the god you chose...live in darkness . but..because they turned away from a being they don't believe exists ( which to them is nothing, and that means nothing to turn away from ) .. they live in darkness anyway and they don't know it ? ........... Can you explain how that makes any sense?

Edited by Beckys_Mom
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Culture defines what is and is not acceptable. Biology is not debatable.

Culture is a product of peoples morals (among other things).

Homosexuality cannot be right or wrong anymore than heterosexuality is.

That is not true.

There is a reason God made both man and woman. If not then we would have all been made the same sex.

If the shoe fits...

Yes, if the shoe fits.

Like I said, you have no idea about my own sexuality, my own sexual desires, or any personal conflict I may have regarding the matter. You also have no idea as to who my friends are and how many of them are gay, bi, or transgenered.

I do not hate or even dislike people who fall under any of those categories based upon that alone. If I did I wouldn't be friends with some of the people I am friends with.

I don't have any hate to let go of. In fact, I see nothing hateful in what I said.

Ah, but there is most definitely hate behind some of the things you have stated. You may not see it, but that only indicates the very reason you can't let go of it to begin with.

One does not take such joy in mocking the beliefs of others - whether it concern God's existance or otherwise - without some level of hate and detest involved in doing so.

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Simply because a person believes in god does not mean he is real.

I already know this. I am not so sure that you realize your nonbelief in God, however, means He is not real.

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Culture is a product of peoples morals (among other things).

Morals come from culture, not the other way around.

That is not true.

There is a reason God made both man and woman. If not then we would have all been made the same sex.

Give me empirical proof that your god created anything. A book of jewish fairy tales doesn't count.

Yes, if the shoe fits.

Like I said, you have no idea about my own sexuality, my own sexual desires, or any personal conflict I may have regarding the matter. You also have no idea as to who my friends are and how many of them are gay, bi, or transgenered.

I do not hate or even dislike people who fall under any of those categories based upon that alone. If I did I wouldn't be friends with some of the people I am friends with.

I could honestly care less about you, your friends, or your/their orientation.

Ah, but there is most definitely hate behind some of the things you have stated. You may not see it, but that only indicates the very reason you can't let go of it to begin with.

One does not take such joy in mocking the beliefs of others - whether it concern God's existance or otherwise - without some level of hate and detest involved in doing so.

Oh, so you've managed to work up a full psychological profile of me based on a few statements and know now exactly how and why I feel the way I do about things, right?

Bravo.

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That is not true.

Can you chose to make yourself fall in love with someone of the same sex ? If you can.. can you tell me how easy it is ?

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I already know this. I am not so sure that you realize your nonbelief in God, however, means He is not real.

It's just a circular argument with no resolution, suffice it to say that the burden of proof does not rest on me to prove the fantastical.

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Can you chose to make yourself fall in love with someone of the same sex ? If you can.. can you tell me how easy it is ?

Be careful, I think you're going going to get lost in darkness! :lol: Better grab a flashlight.

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Be careful, I think you're going going to get lost in darkness! :lol: Better grab a flashlight.

If I get lost in the darkness.. it will get me out of work for a while lol

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If you do not believe in any god... then you will not think you have turned away from god.. in your mind, there is nothing there to turn away from.

Correct. If you don't believe in God than you won't think have turned away from Him. Not thinking you have done so, and not actually doing so are different things however.

If I believed and followed a god that was not the same as your god, and I claimed it was your god.. You will not hold belief's in my god..in your mind, my god does not exist for you.. Does it mean you have turned away from my god too?

Being as I know there is only one God I would not believe I have turned away from yours (unless we believe in the same God of course).

That said, you'd be well within reason to state I have turned away from your god (or gods) if you truly believe in them and do your best to live by their laws due to the level of belief you hold in him/her/them.

But ......I am not in darkness.. Well accept at night, that's a given lol

Well, I am not sure of all your beliefs pertaining to God, but if I recall correctly you do believe in some type of god. And if I am correct in stating that (hope I am recalling correctly) I'm fairly certain you believe in a god that is just and one that expects people to behave in accordance to good morals and things of that nature.

In that sense I wouldn't say you are living in darkness. We'd have to have a far more intricate discussion about each of our beliefs however to go into more specific details about what living in darkness encompasses.

Hang on... - Those who do not hold belief's in the god you chose...live in darkness . but..because they turned away from a being they don't believe exists ( which to them is nothing, and that means nothing to turn away from ) .. they live in darkness anyway and they don't know it ? ........... Can you explain how that makes any sense?

I haven't chosen "my" god. God has chosen me. There is only one God, and as such no one gets to choose Him. They can only choose to turn towards Him or turn away from and/or deny Him.

When people turn away from, deny, or are merely unaware of His existance they are living in darkness. What level of darkness, and what "living in darkness" encompasses is something that I am not so sure can be all that well discussed through the internet as it takes somewhat of a more personal knowing of the person you are discussing the topic with in order to better understand each other.

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If I get lost in the darkness.. it will get me out of work for a while lol

Heh. I can't come in today, I got lost in a godless darkness.

There's too much proselytizing going on in this thread for my liking....

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