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Harte

How "Ancient Aliens" have lied to you

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Maybe it's easier for some people to believe the ancient alien theories, than to bother reading the truth from academics.

Many people think that people living thousands of years ago were just plain stupid because they didn't have computers, cars, and Walmarts.

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Maybe it's easier for some people to believe the ancient alien theories, than to bother reading the truth from academics.

Many people think that people living thousands of years ago were just plain stupid because they didn't have computers, cars, and Walmarts.

The "truth" about many things is highly elusive. In some cases it is simply

assumed and the facts are appended to the assumptions. In some cases they don't

even do basic science to test the assumptions.

Believing in aliens can make as much sense as believing in assumptions.

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If aliens came here in the past they certainly would do what we do if we were on an alien planet. They would leave trash. The reason is they would not want to expend the fuel necessary to boost it back into space. Also, if you are such an advanced race why would you care if the locals ever found the trash, especially if it was not, in fact, toxic or helpful to their advancement. So, where are the plastic water bottles, the pop cans, the crating materials, anything that the aliens would not take with them upon leaving to go home or elsewhere?

It's all well and good to look at myths, grand structures, and such and fantasize. But, show me the trash or the left over something, anything, they left behind that is even remotely conclusive.

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I don't believe it is possible to debunk aliens with tripe like this;

"However, as all of this relates to the great pyramid’s construction, it’s important to remember that almost none of the pyramid is made from granite – except for a few things such as the roof supports for the king’s chamber. Most of the stones used were sandstone and limestone. About 85% of the stone used in the construction of the pyramids was relatively soft sandstone which was quarried right on site.[20]"

At least the concept that aliens were involved doesn't contradict facts.

Doesn't it? There's no evidence for them though, in fact there's more evidence for giants building the pyramids then there is for aliens doing it.

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I very seriously doubt Houdin would make such an error and it's highly improbable

Brier might. Houdin is very competent and intelligent and wouldn't make such an

involved misstatement of facts.

It's very easy to tear things down but far more difficult to build something. De-

spite this obvious truism at least one attempt to dismantle G1 failed.

If man can't even tear it down maybe it really did require aliens to build it.

If it's really embarrassing to believe in aliens it's only because there is so very

little evidence to support it, not because the idea is so absurd.

Just so you know cladking, I have the entire 3.97 MB download of Brier and Houdin's book. NOWHERE in the entire 255 pages did they ever make this mistake, nor is sandstone ever mentioned.

cormac

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AA never lies to you because they always claim What if. So you got to remember that these are all just Theories. Until Proven Otherwise

I believe that AA also says that the opinions of the various "experts" are those of that expert. So they do plenty of CYA (Cover your A##). I do think that the AA Site and the show should have a more clear disclaimer that this is Entertainment and not a Doumentary series.

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I believe that AA also says that the opinions of the various "experts" are those of that expert. So they do plenty of CYA (Cover your A##). I do think that the AA Site and the show should have a more clear disclaimer that this is Entertainment and not a Doumentary series.

I would say that these people and their fringe followers regard this fantasy as a genuine Documentary...

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Much to my dismay I saw recently that Giorgio is coming to New Orleans. Apparently he's going to appear at 'New Orleans' Premiere Music Venue' (which should be read as... 'he couldn't get his gig to appear anywhere else in the city.'). If it weren't so ridiculously expensive for a ticket - close to $100 if I recall correctly - I'd go just to see how many idiots in the city believe his hogwash.

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If aliens came here in the past they certainly would do what we do if we were on an alien planet. They would leave trash. The reason is they would not want to expend the fuel necessary to boost it back into space. Also, if you are such an advanced race why would you care if the locals ever found the trash, especially if it was not, in fact, toxic or helpful to their advancement. So, where are the plastic water bottles, the pop cans, the crating materials, anything that the aliens would not take with them upon leaving to go home or elsewhere?

It's all well and good to look at myths, grand structures, and such and fantasize. But, show me the trash or the left over something, anything, they left behind that is even remotely conclusive.

"Trash" of water bottles, pop cans, or crating materials assumes the supposed ancient aliens lived the same lifestyle as we do now. The "ancient aliens" may have been so advanced that they did not physically visit Earth. Perhaps it was a something akin to telepathic transfer of knowledge to our ancestors, or their appearance here was in the form or an elaborate hologram.

In any case, I share your scepticism of the ancient alien theory to explain ancient architecture. IF their purpose here was to help, my thoughts are they would have taught us how to build modular or mobile homes with air conditioning, prefabricated structures, sanitary sewage systems with flushing toilets, and medical knowledge to cure at least common ailments.

But, you're right, other than big stones being moved and advanced mathematics, there is no physical evidence of aliens.

I think jumping to the conclusion that it was ancient aliens, is a cop-out for the fact that we don't know exactly how our ancestors accomplished their architectural feats or it assumes they were too stupid to figure it out.

Edited by synchronomy

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The crux of theories on AA is not bad but the amount of dicrepancies in facts that they propund like the weight of certain stones etc etc makes them sound extremely unreliable and not to be taken at face value.I feel history channel deliberately airs this show to make ancient UFO and ET enthusiasts look like a bunch of unreliable lying fools out to con people.

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The crux of theories on AA is not bad but the amount of dicrepancies in facts that they propund like the weight of certain stones etc etc makes them sound extremely unreliable and not to be taken at face value.I feel history channel deliberately airs this show to make ancient UFO and ET enthusiasts look like a bunch of unreliable lying fools out to con people.

Maybe because they are out to con people,Von Daniken,Childress and Co have made a lot of money out of presenting incorrect evidence,faked evidence and bare faced lies.they change ancient texts to suit their ridiculous theories,knowing that your average gullible Joe will never check it out.The History Channel are only cashing in on this and will continue to do so whilst this is the vogue..

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The concept that aliens were involved doesn't even bear consideration. Not for educated people, anyway. A misidentification of the stones used in the pyramid is far less embarrassing than suggesting aliens were involved.

But you found an obvious mistake. Heiser is not an Egyptologist and I rather doubt he is all that well versed in ancient Egyptian history, including the Great Pyramid, but the overall statement is true that the Great Pyramid is composed almost completely of soft, malleable stone. To be fair, however, were some poster here to say the same thing, I likely would jump on him.

If no geyser is included, you can count on Cladking to object.

Regarding this mistake, both sandstone and limestone are sedimentary stones and both are found in Egypt. IIRC, there is sandstone in some places in pyramids.

This is an opportunity, however, to be educational and informative regarding the use of the term "hardness" to describe stones and whether they can be easily worked/carved.

We would all agree that sandstone is easier to work than limestone, right?

But limestone has a hardness of 3 to 4 on Moh's scale, while sandstone has a hardness of 6.5 to 7 on the same scale.

As I've said many times, Moh's scale is no way to tell whether a stone is easily worked.

Harte

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If no geyser is included, you can count on Cladking to object.

Regarding this mistake, both sandstone and limestone are sedimentary stones and both are found in Egypt. IIRC, there is sandstone in some places in pyramids.

This is an opportunity, however, to be educational and informative regarding the use of the term "hardness" to describe stones and whether they can be easily worked/carved.

We would all agree that sandstone is easier to work than limestone, right?

But limestone has a hardness of 3 to 4 on Moh's scale, while sandstone has a hardness of 6.5 to 7 on the same scale.

As I've said many times, Moh's scale is no way to tell whether a stone is easily worked.

Harte

In fact, it can happen that hard stone can be worked easier because it is more brittle.

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I often wonder what would happen if an Asteroid impacted the earth and the only survivors were a tribe on a small island.

How long would it be before they left the island?

How long before they started "growing" intellectualy?

What would they find throughout the rest of the world in 5,000 years.

What would be left to show their descendents how far we had progressed before we were virtually exterminated?

I watch AA just to see what kind of interesting things are out there, i dont believe for one second Aliens are visiting this planet.

I do however wonder if maybe our ancestors didnt reach heights we dont give them credit for before something as mentioned above happened.

Machines and modern tools would return to dust in what, a 1000 years after people left them?

Who's to say they werent using diamond tipped drills or lasers?

Imagine the surprise of people in 5000 years that happened along Mt Rushmore, what would be around to prove that we had reached our current intellectual state?

A CD-ROM? Books?

or would they just assume that Aliens must have visited because cavemen couldnt have accomplished that. :alien:

This is the kind of stuff that goes through my head after watching AA and then a heavy dose of Life after people.

I will let people believe what they want to believe, it does me no ill if someone believes that Aliens are visiting ( i cant actually PROVE that they dont)

Personally, i find it just as irritating when someone comes up with all the answers even though in reality they are just a different set of opinions.

Unless someone finds the blueprints for the pyramids and a bill of materials its all just an opinion, some more logical than others, but opinions just the same.

Try not to stomp on one persons opinion in favor of your own.

Have a nice day :yes:

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I will let people believe what they want to believe, it does me no ill if someone believes that Aliens are visiting ( i cant actually PROVE that they dont)

Wow! There's a heavy statement. That is impossible to prove.

It is possible to prove they do, with the correct evidence...but it is not possible to prove the contrary.

So I challenge you to prove it.

And don't give us some spook about the top secret access you had working for some nameless black-ops or military group, so you can't provide details other that your personal knowledge.

Seriously, prove it, or retract your claim.

Edited by synchronomy

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I often wonder what would happen if an Asteroid impacted the earth and the only survivors were a tribe on a small island.

How long would it be before they left the island?

How long before they started "growing" intellectualy?

What would they find throughout the rest of the world in 5,000 years.

What would be left to show their descendents how far we had progressed before we were virtually exterminated?

I watch AA just to see what kind of interesting things are out there, i dont believe for one second Aliens are visiting this planet.

I do however wonder if maybe our ancestors didnt reach heights we dont give them credit for before something as mentioned above happened.

Machines and modern tools would return to dust in what, a 1000 years after people left them?

Who's to say they werent using diamond tipped drills or lasers?

Imagine the surprise of people in 5000 years that happened along Mt Rushmore, what would be around to prove that we had reached our current intellectual state?

A CD-ROM? Books?

or would they just assume that Aliens must have visited because cavemen couldnt have accomplished that. :alien:

This is the kind of stuff that goes through my head after watching AA and then a heavy dose of Life after people.

I will let people believe what they want to believe, it does me no ill if someone believes that Aliens are visiting ( i cant actually PROVE that they dont)

Personally, i find it just as irritating when someone comes up with all the answers even though in reality they are just a different set of opinions.

Unless someone finds the blueprints for the pyramids and a bill of materials its all just an opinion, some more logical than others, but opinions just the same.

Try not to stomp on one persons opinion in favor of your own.

Have a nice day :yes:

The question is much more: How long before inbreeding would convert those island dwellers into brain dead sickos.

There is a minimum of individuals needed to maintain a healthy race evolving under different circumstances and-- sooner or later, meet and mate. If that is not the case the whole system crashes.

Now, if the number of individuals is large enough they will most probably have a hierarchic and semi-specialized society, therefore the myths of the ancient civilization and some of its achievements would be maintained.

As for aliens that came around: The same rules that apply to the earth from the big bang on apply to any other planet in the universe. If there are aliens they are not so much ahead of us, give or take a few thousand years their society is more or less at the same level than ours. Even if they would have been at our level 10,000 years ago they could not have traveled through space to get here unless living in our solar system, which we can safely exclude at this point.

So, right there you can exclude any ancient aliens having anything to do with what is going on on this planet.

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As for aliens that came around: The same rules that apply to the earth from the big bang on apply to any other planet in the universe. If there are aliens they are not so much ahead of us, give or take a few thousand years their society is more or less at the same level than ours. Even if they would have been at our level 10,000 years ago they could not have traveled through space to get here unless living in our solar system, which we can safely exclude at this point.

So, right there you can exclude any ancient aliens having anything to do with what is going on on this planet.

You are looking at the Universe using Newtonian physics.

Space and time distortion occurs extensively throughout.

There's no way to extrapolate how civilizations can manipulate interstellar travel if they have mastered special relativistic time dilation, which is proven in practical terms already by long stays on the space station and GPS satellites which have to have their internal clocks reset periodically due to long term high velocities. At much higher velocities or even half the speed of light, the time dilations becomes exponential.

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You are looking at the Universe using Newtonian physics.

Space and time distortion occurs extensively throughout.

There's no way to extrapolate how civilizations can manipulate interstellar travel if they have mastered special relativistic time dilation, which is proven in practical terms already by long stays on the space station and GPS satellites which have to have their internal clocks reset periodically due to long term high velocities. At much higher velocities or even half the speed of light, the time dilations becomes exponential.

Which still needs its time on the home planet to get there. No matter how much you dilated time after succeeding building a fast enough drive.

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If no geyser is included, you can count on Cladking to object.

Regarding this mistake, both sandstone and limestone are sedimentary stones and both are found in Egypt. IIRC, there is sandstone in some places in pyramids.

This is an opportunity, however, to be educational and informative regarding the use of the term "hardness" to describe stones and whether they can be easily worked/carved.

We would all agree that sandstone is easier to work than limestone, right?

But limestone has a hardness of 3 to 4 on Moh's scale, while sandstone has a hardness of 6.5 to 7 on the same scale.

As I've said many times, Moh's scale is no way to tell whether a stone is easily worked.

Harte

I can't think of a pyramid in which any sizable amount of sandstone was used. The chief building material all the way to the Late Bronze Age was limestone. Granite was frequently employed as a "decorative" stone.

However, for reasons not well understood, sandstone became the norm at the beginning of the New Kingdom (c. 1550 BCE). You're correct that both are found in Egypt, in abundance, and both are easy to work. Limestone was generally quarried on-site in the Old Kingdom, as is obvious at Giza and other pyramid sites, so the mistake appears to be Heiser's alone.

I think we can forgive him. I've only reviewed the website you found but am really enjoying it so far. It is a valuable resource for those us attempting to beat back the uninformed lunacy of the fringe—and specifically for battling the idiotic phenomenon known as Ancient Aliens.

Very few professional academics even bother to give the fringe their attention, so Heiser does everyone a service.

On a separate note, whenever the Great Pyramid might pop up in this thread, geysers are not germane to the discussion, period. Nor shall I permit them to become so. As it is, Ancient Aliens Debunked covers so much more, and we should all be exploring as much of it as possible. ;)

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Georgio states that he was in the Kings chamber, the lights went out, he pulled a lighter from his satchel and the room was so oxygen deficient it would not support a flame. Can said oxygen deficient room support life then? Just curious, as his story sounds like bullsh!t.

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Georgio states that he was in the Kings chamber, the lights went out, he pulled a lighter from his satchel and the room was so oxygen deficient it would not support a flame. Can said oxygen deficient room support life then? Just curious, as his story sounds like bullsh!t.

Not any animal life as we know it, that is for sure. But I think the story is BoolKrappy as, if there is not enough oxygen to support a lighter flame, he would have keeled over...unless he really is a vegetable, which would explain his lack of brain.

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Our Georgio is all hair and no brain and verbal Detritus.

http://badarchaeology.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/i-remember-why-i%E2%80%99ve-never-wanted-satellite-television/

Edited by shaddow134

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I can't think of a pyramid in which any sizable amount of sandstone was used. The chief building material all the way to the Late Bronze Age was limestone. Granite was frequently employed as a "decorative" stone.

Here's what I was thinking of:

The Red Pyramid was not always red. It used to be cased with white Tura limestone, but only a few of these now remain at the pyramid's base on the corner. During the Middle Ages much of the white Tura limestone was taken for buildings in Cairo, revealing the reddish sandstone beneath.

Source

Of course, that reference could also be wrong. If you google it, you'll find many websites that list the sphinx as being sandstone as well.

Very few professional academics even bother to give the fringe their attention, so Heiser does everyone a service.

True, and I have messaged my thanks to him for this in the past - at his blog "Paleobabble."

I plan to go there and thank him for the current website as well, though likely Chris White had more to do with its creation.

On a separate note, whenever the Great Pyramid might pop up in this thread, geysers are not germane to the discussion, period. Nor shall I permit them to become so. As it is, Ancient Aliens Debunked covers so much more, and we should all be exploring as much of it as possible. ;)

Now that you've gone Big Time here, as a moderator, and people are calling you "Mr. Sesh," (which really cracks me up - I'm sure you could tell,) I was hoping you'd use your new superpowers to plug that geyser up! LOL

Harte

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Not any animal life as we know it, that is for sure., if there is not enough oxygen to support a lighter flame, he would have keeled over.

This is what I suspected, thank you for the reply.

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Georgio states that he was in the Kings chamber, the lights went out, he pulled a lighter from his satchel and the room was so oxygen deficient it would not support a flame. Can said oxygen deficient room support life then? Just curious, as his story sounds like bullsh!t.

I know I come across as harsh on this matter, but you can safely regard pretty much everything said by Tsoukalos and von Däniken and the other Ancient Aliens talking heads as unreliable twaddle. Or, as questionmark so artfully put it, BoolKrappy. As questionmark also noted, had the oxygen level been that low when Georgio was playing with his lighter—at the risk of setting his massive hair on fire—he likely would've passed out in the first place.

And think of all the tourists. How many tens of thousands must visit the King's Chamber every year? Aside from heat exhaustion or a panic attack brought on by claustrophobia, there wouldn't be much cause for people to be passing out in there. It's altogether possible oxygen levels were extremely low after the pyramid was sealed 4,500 years ago, but that's hardly the case today. The Grand Gallery alone, when fed with air from the outside, would be enough to oxygenate all of the chambers in the superstructure.

It's also possible, however, that at the time Georgio was standing in the King's Chamber, his massive hair caused so much displacement of oxygen that there was barely enough to fuel his lighter. Or perhaps he forgot to refill it that morning. :rolleyes:

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