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Harte

How "Ancient Aliens" have lied to you

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it was only posted this morning that Chris White ran a religious group.

I had viewed the video a few days ago on YouTube itself and saw his channel about ministries etc. ;)

Whether or not members believe in God, has absolutely nothing to do with debunking AA or whether or not ET species exist.

It most certainly does. If a person believes in God then they are placing their faith in something that isn't proven to exist. We have no physical proof god exists and other than people who claim to have been sent a message, had a miracle happen, or been visited by the holy spirit, it's all a theory. Well, the same is true about the theory of ancient aliens and what they might have done in the past to help mankind in various ways. We have no physical proof that aliens helped build the pyramids or visited our early ancestors, but some of us believe it's certainly possible. SO....if you're a believer in the "God" theory and dismiss the ancient alien theory, then you're a hypocrite.

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Wow! There's a heavy statement. That is impossible to prove.

It is possible to prove they do, with the correct evidence...but it is not possible to prove the contrary.

So I challenge you to prove it.

And don't give us some spook about the top secret access you had working for some nameless black-ops or military group, so you can't provide details other that your personal knowledge.

Seriously, prove it, or retract your claim.

Sorry but you lost me.

I said i cant prove that Aliens DONT exist.

I personally dont believe they are visiting us, but i'm not going to call everyone out on their claims that they DO exist because i dont have any evidence.

If i claimed to work on top secret projects ect, i would then have proof one way or the other but i dont.

Sorry, i'm just a commoner with no access to any data that proves aliens have visited us or any proof that they havent.

Hence the reason i wont call people out on their belief one way or another.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

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SO....if you're a believer in the "God" theory and dismiss the ancient alien theory, then you're a hypocrite.

For your information, I do not dismiss the ancient alien theory, I dismiss the AA TV series because it presents the theory as cold, hard fact, when in actuality it is speculative conjecture and their is no evidence to support it. That's what I don't like.

Many people have a strong belief in God and believe the words of the Bible are true, yet they completely dismiss the theory of Darwinian Evolution.

Does that make them hypocrites?

So with your logic, anyone who accepts any theory, but disbelieves another is a hypocrite?

Conversely, applying your logic means that anyone who believes the ancient alien theory, and does not believe in God is also a hypocrite.

It is regretable, that in order to make your point, you stoop to the level of personal criticism.

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Sorry but you lost me.

I said i cant prove that Aliens DONT exist.

I personally dont believe they are visiting us, but i'm not going to call everyone out on their claims that they DO exist because i dont have any evidence.

If i claimed to work on top secret projects ect, i would then have proof one way or the other but i dont.

Sorry, i'm just a commoner with no access to any data that proves aliens have visited us or any proof that they havent.

Hence the reason i wont call people out on their belief one way or another.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

I am sorry. I reread your post and completely missed the "t" in "can't", which gave it a whole different meaning.

Again, my apologies.

Capt Amerika said:

"I will let people believe what they want to believe, it does me no ill if someone believes that Aliens are visiting ( i cant actually PROVE that they dont)"

Edited by synchronomy

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.

the fact remains that the OP video is part of the Chris White Ministries....it is in black and white (literally) at the beginning of the video.

Chris White evidently has differing standards of 'proof' and 'facts'......when it suits him....

.

Edited by bee
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Many people have a strong belief in God and believe the words of the Bible are true, yet they completely dismiss the theory of Darwinian Evolution.

Does that make them hypocrites?

So with your logic, anyone who accepts any theory, but disbelieves another is a hypocrite?

Conversely, applying your logic means that anyone who believes the ancient alien theory, and does not believe in God is also a hypocrite.

It is regretable, that in order to make your point, you stoop to the level of personal criticism.

I wasn't criticizing you personally, I was giving my thoughts to the other posters in this topic as a whole. I was making a comparison between two very similar belief systems that different people have. There is a lot of similarities between those who believe in the god theory and those that believe in the alien or ancient alien theory.

And if we were to compare the physical proof of whether god exists or UFO's and aliens, there is much more physical proof (scant as it is), that aliens and UFO's exist than does god. There is ZERO physical proof of a God. ;)

By the way, the bible dismisses evolution so I don't know if you made a typing error or not when trying to make your point. ;)

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I have seen an awful lot of posters here flat out claiming that in no way shape or form have Aliens visited, nor can they visit.

In the spirit of keeping an open mind......

I would say that reading the conclusion of this page should be enough to warrant that anyone who is claiming flat out, that it is absolutely impossible should try opening their mind.

I find it hard to believe that some of the posters with their absolute 100% i know everything would even bother coming to an Unexplained Mysteries forum.

Hopefully everyone will just open their mind to other possibilities until something is proven to be 100% absolute.

http://mkaku.org/home/?page_id=250

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I am sorry. I reread your post and completely missed the "t" in "can't", which gave it a whole different meaning.

Again, my apologies.

Capt Amerika said:

"I will let people believe what they want to believe, it does me no ill if someone believes that Aliens are visiting ( i cant actually PROVE that they dont)"

No problem.

Just didnt want people thinking that i believed i had some superior knowledge of the subject.

I dont. I'm just another mushroom. :yes:

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And if we were to compare the physical proof of whether god exists or UFO's and aliens, there is much more physical proof (scant as it is), that aliens and UFO's exist than does god. There is ZERO physical proof of a God. ;)

:tu:

or even that Jesus was a real historical person.....at least along the lines portrayed by the evangelical lot....

.

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well you seem to believe Chris White's video, Harte....

how many of the other ones do you believe....

http://www.youtube.c...wwheretorun1984

:whistle:.

It appears that you lack the ability to discern the difference between "belief" and evidence.

How sad for you.

White and I do not share the same faith-based belief system, if that answers your question.

We do, however, both share the same understanding of the difference between lies and mischaracterizations, and factual, verifiable evidence.

Harte

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.

I don't know if I can be bothered to watch the OP video (it's very long)...but when I saw it was by Chris White I remembered that I had read about him

somewhere and that he was some kind of evangelical christian. Evidence is evidence and it is the interpretation of

evidence that varies. According to motive...?

Well Chris White is a very busy bee :)......debunking this that and the other...lol....and running his ministries...

this is his YouTube channel...

http://www.youtube.c...wwheretorun1984

the OP video is part of the Chris White Ministries....

http://chriswhitemin...com/?page_id=27

mmmmmmmmm :unsure:

.

Considering some of the topics you've devoted countless hours to, I hardly think a 3 hour video is "too long." That said, he has broken it into smaller chunks that can be easily watched in short sessions and has provided transcripts as well.

As for his ministries, I did notice at times during the film that he seemed overly focused on his religious understanding of the Bible, but those times were primarily surrounding his discussion of Ezekiel's Wheel. In that sense it is hardly inappropriate considering the very context of the material in question.

Besides, you're completely ignoring the content of what he has put together in order to just attack the man. Have you learned this tactic from some of those evil debunkers who are critical of some of your pet projects? :P

Interesting.

Obviously his motivation for debunking Ancient Aliens.

Regardless of whatever his motivation may have been in producing this thing, he has brought together many relevant facts which outline the inconsistencies, false interpretations, and even outright fabrications that Tsoukalos and crew are guilty of throughout the AA series.

I can't believe the negativity and complete close mindedness of many of the posters replying in this topic. :no: I was going to watch the video posted supposedly debunking ancient aliens, but when I saw how long it was AND that it was probably funded and produced by a religious group, I said forget it.

May I ask how many of the posters in this topic believe in god and if you do, please let me know. If you have posted here criticizing the theories about ancient aliens and you're a believer in god, then you are putting your faith in something that has no definitive proof of existing as well.

There's nothing supposed about the debunking. Belief in God is completely irrelevant to the subject of whether the ideas put forth in AA series have any validity, and the film does quite readily debunk a great number of things that AA proponents try to use in support of those ideas. You can choose to ignore them if you prefer, but you're only shorting yourself in the process.

I've been looking further into the debunking "facts" presented in the video....some of them anyway.

Some of what is stated in a factual manner, are theories still unproven.

If you're talking about the internal ramp theory proposed by Jean Pierre Houdin you are correct that it remains unproven, but White didn't present it as fact as you state here. He presented it as it is, a theory, and one which he finds particularly compelling and convincing.

Have you reviewed any of the other sections? The intro and the portion on Puma Punku for example? I'd recommend starting with those as he sets the tone for not only how he intends to approach the subject overall, but clearly demonstrates how the AA series has blatantly distorted some fairly basic facts right up front.

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I find it hard to believe that some of the posters with their absolute 100% i know everything would even bother coming to an Unexplained Mysteries forum.

I couldn't agree with this statement anymore! :D

:tu:

or even that Jesus was a real historical person.....at least along the lines portrayed by the evangelical lot....

agreed too. ;) However, I do believe that Jesus was probably a real person and to be fair. I just don't believe that he is our "God". ;)

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Belief in God is completely irrelevant to the subject of whether the ideas put forth in AA series have any validity, and the film does quite readily debunk a great number of things that AA proponents try to use in support of those ideas. You can choose to ignore them if you prefer, but you're only shorting yourself in the process.

It is completely relevant and I'm sorry that you don't see that. It would be the exact same scenario as if I was to produce and create a documentary debunking the bible and the god theory with various reasons why those things aren't possible. It's your opinion that this film produced by Chris White or whoever brings forth credible reasons to dismiss the ancient alien theory. So yes and again, if someone blindly puts their faith in the teachings of the bible and god when there is again ZERO physical proof, but then dismisses the ancient alien theory completely like Chris White has done and apparently you too, than that is the very definition of hypocrisy.

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We have no physical proof that aliens helped build the pyramids or visited our early ancestors, but some of us believe it's certainly possible. SO....if you're a believer in the "God" theory and dismiss the ancient alien theory, then you're a hypocrite.

Anyone that thinks this is (probably purposefully) being simple minded.

People that continually search for "evidence" for the existence of God are just ignorant.

A thinking person knows the difference between faith and physical reality.

On the other hand, thinking people also can discern the difference between lies and facts, especially when evidence of the lies is shoved into their faces.

But the ignorant? No, they simply busy themselves labelling other people as "hypocrites."

Harte

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It appears that you lack the ability to discern the difference between "belief" and evidence.

that's me and Chris White then....isn't it....lol

(if you apply the same standards)

http://chriswhiteministries.com/?page_id=27

3. We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father and His personal return in power and glory.

nice bit of cherry picking from the Chris White Ministries, Harte.... :D

.

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It is completely relevant and I'm sorry that you don't see that. It would be the exact same scenario as if I was to produce and create a documentary debunking the bible and the god theory with various reasons why those things aren't possible. It's your opinion that this film produced by Chris White or whoever brings forth credible reasons to dismiss the ancient alien theory. So yes and again, if someone blindly puts their faith in the teachings of the bible and god when there is again ZERO physical proof, but then dismisses the ancient alien theory completely like Chris White has done and apparently you too, than that is the very definition of hypocrisy.

The two are completely separate and unrelated. The two can't even be legitimately compared with each other.

This topic isn't about God, religion, or anything like that. This topic is about the validity of the claims put forth in the Ancient Aliens series. That's it.

Chris White's religious beliefs are completely irrelevant to the substance of what he has presented here, and I don't believe that I've said anything regarding my own religious beliefs so I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me into any perceived religious category that you think you've figured out.

If you have commentary related to the actual content of Chris White's film, that's what this thread is for. In order to supply that commentary, you'd have to first watch the film or at least portions of the film. If your intention is to just disparage people of faith, there is an entire section of the forum designed for that kind of interaction and I respectfully submit that you may be better off over there.

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... So yes and again, if someone blindly puts their faith in the teachings of the bible and god when there is again ZERO physical proof, but then dismisses the ancient alien theory completely like Chris White has done and apparently you too, than that is the very definition of hypocrisy.

No, that is not the definition of hypocrisy.

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By the way, the bible dismisses evolution so I don't know if you made a typing error or not when trying to make your point. ;)

I knew that...I guess I should have left out the Bible part.

Ok, I see your point of view and accept it.

I for one have faith that God exists, although it is my own interpretation, think the Bible to be mainly a work of metaphor, believe ancient aliens theories are entirely plausible (in fact probable), although not entirely as AA portrays and I believe without a shadow of doubt, ET's are visiting regularly now.

What offends me about AA is their continual portrayal of their speculative conjecture as fact.

Many people watching this show probably believe ancient Egyptians were a bunch of disorganized morons. In fact some people at my work were talking about it after I raised the subject a few days ago and that's, in general, the image they had after watching AA.

Edited by synchronomy
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Besides, you're completely ignoring the content of what he has put together in order to just attack the man. Have you learned this tactic from some of those evil debunkers who are critical of some of your pet projects? :P

I might have.....what's good for the goose is good for the gander... ;)

After making comments here I will make the effort to watch some of the video

even though it has been made by someone who I might privately think is a bit of a religious nutter (whoops that's not private any more.. :P )

Unless I find that it's toooooo boring...lol

ps...I like the snow...

(booN's avatar)

.

Edited by bee

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This topic isn't about God, religion, or anything like that. This topic is about the validity of the claims put forth in the Ancient Aliens series. That's it.

Chris White's religious beliefs are completely irrelevant to the substance of what he has presented here, and I don't believe that I've said anything regarding my own religious beliefs so I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me into any perceived religious category that you think you've figured out.

This is why I asked the posters in this topic who believed in god. I wanted to understand where their beliefs lay and what their perspective is. ;)

If you have commentary related to the actual content of Chris White's film, that's what this thread is for. In order to supply that commentary, you'd have to first watch the film or at least portions of the film. If your intention is to just disparage people of faith, there is an entire section of the forum designed for that kind of interaction and I respectfully submit that you may be better off over there.

I thoroughly doubt I'll be watching the debunking of ancient aliens, well....maybe one day when I have time I will.

Perhaps this topic is placed in the wrong forum then? It's in the ancient mysteries and alternative theories forum. Now that it seems likely that Chris White's video and his ideas are based on his religious beliefs, maybe this topic should be moved to the spirituality, religion and beliefs forum and to avoid any confusion.

Edited by Bionic Bigfoot

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I had viewed the video a few days ago on YouTube itself and saw his channel about ministries etc. ;)

It most certainly does. If a person believes in God then they are placing their faith in something that isn't proven to exist. We have no physical proof god exists and other than people who claim to have been sent a message, had a miracle happen, or been visited by the holy spirit, it's all a theory. Well, the same is true about the theory of ancient aliens and what they might have done in the past to help mankind in various ways. We have no physical proof that aliens helped build the pyramids or visited our early ancestors, but some of us believe it's certainly possible. SO....if you're a believer in the "God" theory and dismiss the ancient alien theory, then you're a hypocrite.

The problem with this is the the fact that AA, as originaly presented in Chariots of the Gods?, itself procedes from a position of belief that the deities of mythology are/were real rather than imaginary. Van Doniken himself came to his subject by way of being a student of theology.

Mister White is justified in his critique in that AA constitues a direct attack on his religion not so much as a religion but on it's nature and origin, using it own aspects, that is as literal truth taken on faith, which places his opponents on an equal footing, and so with equal fault as such exists.

I would add though that going by the summery given by the OP, he really isn't saying anything we here havn't come up with on our own.

Edited by Oniomancer

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Now that it seems likely that Chris White's video and his ideas are based on his religious beliefs, maybe this topic should be moved to the spirituality, religion and beliefs forum and to avoid any confusion.

No!

This topic is about Ancient Aliens, the TV show and how they portray their evidence. It belongs in this forum.

Chris White's motivation may be based on his beliefs, but we need to examine the facts he is presenting.

Now, a thought popped to mind. Is Chris White this guys real name? Or is it a pseudonym for maybe ... white=pure, chris=Christian.

Reminds me a bit of Ernest Angely.

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that's me and Chris White then....isn't it....lol

(if you apply the same standards)

http://chriswhitemin...com/?page_id=27

nice bit of cherry picking from the Chris White Ministries, Harte.... :D.

Again, there is a difference between faith and evidence. Please show me where Chris White has listed any actual physical evidence for his belief system.

Now, contrast that with the actual, physical evidence presented in the film which demonstrates with an absolute, infallible certainty that Giorgio and Co. have lied to you and any other viewers.

When you pretend that these two situatiions are the "same thing," you display an inordinant amount of ignorance.

Harte

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Chris White's motivation may be based on his beliefs, but we need to examine the facts he is presenting.

IF this is true and it's seeming very likely that it is, then his views and theories debunking ancient aliens are skewed and impartial. I would love to debunk the debunking video, but I really don't have the desire to watch 3 hours worth. And besides, even if I did watch the video and had counter opinions, people would just tell me again that I have no proof or evidence to counter the material in the video.

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IF this is true and it's seeming very likely that it is, then his views and theories debunking ancient aliens are skewed and impartial. I would love to debunk the debunking video, but I really don't have the desire to watch 3 hours worth. And besides, even if I did watch the video and had counter opinions, people would just tell me again that I have no proof or evidence to counter the material in the video.

As I stated in the OP, the vid is broken down into several different clips on different pages of the site.

On each of these pages, there is a textual summary of what is in that section of the video.

So, you don't need to watch even a second of any video.

Harte

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