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Harte

How "Ancient Aliens" have lied to you

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He also states that the Great Pyramid is made primarily of sandstone, but its not. You can find that statement at the link, IIRC.

My understanding is that Andesite is the stone which was carved into the "lego-type" blocks but I could be wrong.

I believe that Andesite is the South American "equivalent" of diorite, and that diorite is not found there, but I could be wrong about that as well.

Regardless, people around the world were carving diorite - which is harder than granite - into very nice shapes in 3000 BCE.

Harte

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He also states that the Great Pyramid is made primarily of sandstone, but its not. You can find that statement at the link, IIRC.

My understanding is that Andesite is the stone which was carved into the "lego-type" blocks but I could be wrong.

I believe that Andesite is the South American "equivalent" of diorite, and that diorite is not found there, but I could be wrong about that as well.

Regardless, people around the world were carving diorite - which is harder than granite - into very nice shapes in 3000 BCE.

Harte

well that chap on the video I posted chipped a bit off the diorite he held in his hand so I expect it could be carved.....even thousands of years ago?

although he used a pen knife....:)

What struck me when I was having a cursory look around on the internet for info on what the stones at Puma Punku were made of

was how influencial the Chris White video has become in such a short space of time and how people are taking what he says as gospel...lol

.

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Yes, nobody is correct 100% of the time.

Well, almost nobody (ahem.)

Here's some carved diorite containers from around 3100 BC in Egypt:

img3.jpg

img72.jpg

Source (and there's more there) : Link.

Harte

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Yes, nobody is correct 100% of the time.

Well, almost nobody (ahem.)

Here's some carved diorite containers from around 3100 BC in Egypt:

img3.jpg

img72.jpg

Source (and there's more there) : Link.

Harte

I'm glad you clarified that "correct 100% of the time" thing, Harte. I feared you were starting to slip.

But have those diorite vessels appeared on Ancient Aliens at all? That's where they need to be properly analyzed. The addled talking heads (von Däniken et al) would assure us aliens carved them, and we would be comforted. After all, ancient man simply couldn't have done the job, right?

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Chris White and Michael Heiser took a few moments to squash Giorgio & Co. Actually, a pretty good thuumping of the Greek Melon (head.)

It's at this site.

It's a three hour vid if you watch the whole thing. White has broken it into pieces concerning the various claims, and includes some text on each page with the shorter clips.

A sampling from the textual section concerning PumaPunku:

Believers have no choice but to concede or stamp their feet and cry 'No Fair!" :cry:

These are the various sections available for viewing individually:

Harte

I'm not a believer but if this is debunking, then this is bad. To just refute something without a legitimate scientific study is not debunking. And saying things close to "My friend says he can cut a rock" isnt debunking. There is just too much in those links that tells me that this isnt much towards debunking this.

In fact, if someone reads and watches these, they might think, "these aren't very good debunking points, so maybe there is something to the story."

Try using real science to debunk things instead of conjecture.

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And what were you smoking while you were posting?

oops sorry - he told me he'd go easy on it... :rofl:

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i've watched ancient aliens a few times but only because the show was about a site that interested me or that i'd not heard of. i don't listen to the 'theories' presented. *ahem.

if i want further information about the site i hunt it down elsewhere

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The television documentary "Ancient Aliens" telling lies is not anything surprising or ground breaking. They have an agenda to make people believe that extraterrestrials built the pyramids, of course they will not always tell the truth to further that agenda. Egyptologists do the same, they lie to further their agenda aswell, by saying that the pyramids were not constructed by highly advanced technology. Until they can replicate and duplicate the pyramids with primitive ramps and pulleys and copper chisels, then their so called evidence is primitive at best. Ancient Aliens bizarrely seems like a more probable theory than the vomit that egyptologists spew out with their dodgy inaccurate AD/BC chronology and twisted and corrupted bible material. They are no more credible than von Daniken or other people who promote wild assumptions.

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Until they can replicate and duplicate the pyramids with primitive ramps and pulleys and copper chisels, then their so called evidence is primitive at best. Ancient Aliens bizarrely seems like a more probable theory than the vomit that egyptologists spew out with their dodgy inaccurate AD/BC chronology and twisted and corrupted bible material. They are no more credible than von Daniken or other people who promote wild assumptions.

ok let me understand this -

because we cannot exactly duplicate the ramp and pully theory that means alien intervention is a more logical idea?

really??

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Obviously.

I mean, anyone can duplicate the alien method. All you have to do is get a crew of aliens from the millions that are sitting around my house watching "Ancient Aliens" and giggling, and ask them to whip up a pyramid this afternoon.

QED

Harte

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ok let me understand this -

because we cannot exactly duplicate the ramp and pully theory that means alien intervention is a more logical idea?

really??

Not exactly, however, other explanations are needed, one being was some secret ancient knowledge used and if so? where did the ancients acquire that knowledge? another possibility, was the "Great Pyramid" given as a gift by something not of the earth, the latter being a gift for ceremonial and ritual purposes. It most certainly was not a tomb.

I believe those possibilities more than the idea that "Egyptologists" have put forth which of course they have never proven, because they have not been able to replicate the "Great Pyramid" with the methods they say it was built with. It would be simply impossible for them.

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Not exactly, however, other explanations are needed, one being was some secret ancient knowledge used and if so? where did the ancients acquire that knowledge? another possibility, was the "Great Pyramid" given as a gift by something not of the earth, the latter being a gift for ceremonial and ritual purposes. It most certainly was not a tomb.

I believe those possibilities more than the idea that "Egyptologists" have put forth which of course they have never proven, because they have not been able to replicate the "Great Pyramid" with the methods they say it was built with. It would be simply impossible for them.

to be honest, i am still waiting for any inkling that it could have been extraterrestrial beings at all. just because we don't yet fully understand the construction does not mean it's something otherworldly.

it just means we haven't figured it out yet.

i wouldn't have issue with it if it was any evidence suggesting alien intervention - actually i would be quite fascinated! the issue i have is that there is no reason to entertain that idea.

other than the belief that we could not have done it ourselves (humans) what is it for you that points to extraterrestrials, other than the drawings that some claim are of alien beings?

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i wouldn't have issue with it if it was any evidence suggesting alien intervention - actually i would be quite fascinated! the issue i have is that there is no reason to entertain that idea.

other than the belief that we could not have done it ourselves (humans) what is it for you that points to extraterrestrials, other than the drawings that some claim are of alien beings?

I also would not have an issue with Egyptologists if they could prove their theories, but they can't. So, i look to other theories, i am also aware that ancients knew about the spirit world and put themselves in a trance to get there, in those trance states they will see things and learn things, they will feel empowered and create immense art. Those beings in the spirit world are probably from a different realm that has a different wavelength to the earth. Who knows what knowledge those beings possess?

Most people think of the AA theory as something like star trek, spaceships visiting etc, it does not have to be that, it can take other forms too. I like many different theories, i'm not limited to just the AA theory. However, i simply do not agree with Egyptologists cause i feel they are lieing, promoting false history with unproven theories etc.

Look at some paintings from shamans who connect with the spirit world.

Just because the human eye can not see things, it does not mean those things are not there. Bats do not have human eyes, they see the world differently to humans, cats have different eyes to humans, who knows what they see? who was it who worshipped cats? where were cats worshipped and glorified and adorned as divinity?

145105b8af45b247b4d79d43b8997bd4.jpeg

Wonder why they worshipped cats? ever hear of the witch with the cat who sees into the spirit world? There are many theories, to limit yourself to Egyptology is boring and not colourful, its bland, dry and boring, therefore its not vibrant.

Egypte_louvre_058.jpg

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I also would not have an issue with Egyptologists if they could prove their theories, but they can't. So, i look to other theories, i am also aware that ancients knew about the spirit world and put themselves in a trance to get there, in those trance states they will see things and learn things, they will feel empowered and create immense art. Those beings in the spirit world are probably from a different realm that has a different wavelength to the earth. Who knows what knowledge those beings possess?

Most people think of the AA theory as something like star trek, spaceships visiting etc, it does not have to be that, it can take other forms too. I like many different theories, i'm not limited to just the AA theory. However, i simply do not agree with Egyptologists cause i feel they are lieing, promoting false history with unproven theories etc.

Look at some paintings from shamans who connect with the spirit world.

Just because the human eye can not see things, it does not mean those things are not there. Bats do not have human eyes, they see the world differently to humans, cats have different eyes to humans, who knows what they see? who was it who worshipped cats? where were cats worshipped and glorified and adorned as divinity?

145105b8af45b247b4d79d43b8997bd4.jpeg

Wonder why they worshipped cats? ever hear of the witch with the cat who sees into the spirit world? There are many theories, to limit yourself to Egyptology is boring and not colourful, its bland, dry and boring, therefore its not vibrant.

Egypte_louvre_058.jpg

yes i do understand what you're getting at, and some of it i agree with. my objection to the whole ancient aliens thing is that we didn't confirm aliens yet. how can we base other theories on them?

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I enjoy AA at times for pure entertainment. I think alot of people get their panties in a twist over what these guys put forth but their delivery alone should put their material in the category of comical ratings snatchers. The truth is we cant confirm nor deny the existence of any life outside our own little planet here. Ill check the video out later.

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i wouldn't have issue with it if it was any evidence suggesting alien intervention - actually i would be quite fascinated! the issue i have is that there is no reason to entertain that idea.

I also would not have an issue with Egyptologists if they could prove their theories, but they can't.

Note the difference in terms here.

JGirl mentions the lack of any evidence, while LRW mentions the lack of "proof."

Is evidence proof?

Of course not.

There exists evidence for everything the mainstream theorizes on. There exists no evidence, on the other hand, for alien inrtervention.

Yet a person that decries the fact that Egyptology can't "prove" their theories happily gloms onto an idea that doesn't even have one iota of evidence behind it, much less "proof."

Harte

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Note the difference in terms here.

JGirl mentions the lack of any evidence, while LRW mentions the lack of "proof."

Is evidence proof?

Of course not.

There exists evidence for everything the mainstream theorizes on. There exists no evidence, on the other hand, for alien inrtervention.

Yet a person that decries the fact that Egyptology can't "prove" their theories happily gloms onto an idea that doesn't even have one iota of evidence behind it, much less "proof."

Harte

exactly how i feel about it. i just want a starting point lol

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I watched one episode of AA before because i freind wanted me to. When i fact checked everything on the episode i found out that the show is just dumb. All i got to say lol

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we didn't confirm aliens yet.

You mean the mainstream did not confirm them, but shamanistic cultures have known about them for a very long time and actively tune into their worlds through trance, rituals and ceremonies.

Now, if you can imagine that shamanistic cultures can tune into other dimensions (realms) and planes of existence, then imagine how the entities in the other dimensions tune into the earth realm and influence peoples thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. Humans without knowledge of them are sitting ducks to be taken advantage of. The ancients knew about those etities and used amulets for protection etc. Then big controlling power religons like christianity came and cut off all connections with those traditions and brought human intelligence down to zero, made them pacifist sheep etc. They even murdered shamanistic priests and priestesses all over the world, remember the witch hunts? remember what the conquistadors done to the shamanistic culture in south america? there you go, cold blooded murder and destruction and suppression of indigenous ethnic groups knowledge built up through hundreds and thousands of years. Should people write those peoples traditions and cultures off as fairytales? No they should not, ancient knowledge of the cosmos is valuable as is knowledge of the spirit worlds.

There exists no evidence, on the other hand, for alien inrtervention.

Shamanistic cultures would disagree with that, also the modern study of biology is primitive, modern science still lacks explanations for who created humans and why are humans on earth, step forward religon, war, nihilism, atheism etc.

Step forward Unexplained Mysteries, if there was no mysteries, then the forum would not exist.

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Shamans took drugs and by that had all kinds of weird visions...

You take drugs too? Shrooms, datura, marihuana, psilocibine, brunfelsia, LSD, San Pedro, Coleus, ayahuasca?

I did all that.

And you want us to take you seriously when you tell us you have an 'alternative' view on history?

++

EDIT:

I forgot to mention fly agaric (Amanita muscaria), my very first experience with mind-fkg stuff.

It's nothing but messing with your brain chemistry. You are a phyisical being, despite of the fact you desperately desire to ignore that.

Yep, I once thought that ingesting drugs was the perfect way to "see through the veils", but I have long been cured of that fantasy.

You better hit your big toe with a hammer, and then interpret the ensuing pain as a 'mind blowing experience'.

At least you will not intoxicate yourself, and not put your liver on hold.

Cheers.

(Lol).

.

Edited by Abramelin
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You mean the mainstream did not confirm them, but shamanistic cultures have known about them for a very long time and actively tune into their worlds through trance, rituals and ceremonies.

with all respect to shamanistic cultures, their practices and belief systems are not confirmation of the sort that is required for criticial analysis.

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Shamans took drugs and by that had all kinds of weird visions...

You better hit your big toe with a hammer, and then interpret the ensuing pain as a 'mind blowing experience'.

At least you will not intoxicate yourself, and not put your liver on hold.

Cheers.

(Lol).

.

It does not neccesarily have to involve plant materials to reach other states of conciousness, it can also be reached through meditation or music.

You count out strict meditation and music way too easily. It shows your lack of experience.

gundestrup-cerrunos.jpg

with all respect to shamanistic cultures, their practices and belief systems are not confirmation of the sort that is required for criticial analysis.

To you maybe, certainly not to others with an interest in it.

Critical analysis is only as good as the person that is doing the analysing.

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It does not neccesarily have to involve plant materials to reach other states of conciousness, it can also be reached through meditation or music.

You count out strict meditation and music way too easily. It shows your lack of experience.

It only shows I didn't post about what other things I experienced.

I practiced meditation, shamanism, drugs, and so on, and maybe long before you were even born,

I even created a site about it, and it lasted for like 6 or 7 years before I finally got fed up with all the bull people believed in.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Shamanistic cultures would disagree with that, also the modern study of biology is primitive, modern science still lacks explanations for who created humans and why are humans on earth, step forward religon, war, nihilism, atheism etc.

To which "Shamanistic cultures" do you refer?

Are you in the business of interpreting other people's visions? People you've never even met?

Perhaps aliens make saran wrap. I've never seen it made, after all, and I probably know more about it than the manufacturers do.

Harte

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It does not neccesarily have to involve plant materials to reach other states of conciousness, it can also be reached through meditation or music.

You count out strict meditation and music way too easily. It shows your lack of experience.

gundestrup-cerrunos.jpg

To you maybe, certainly not to others with an interest in it.

Critical analysis is only as good as the person that is doing the analysing.

critical analysis stands on its own. at least there are those who take that route rather than grabbing things out of the ethers.

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