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Bionic Bigfoot

The Phoenix Lights revisited

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Posted (edited)

I found this video recently and it's a very good documentary based upon the book with the same name and written by Dr. Lynne D. Kitei. It's a long video, but worth the time to watch.

Anyone here witness the lights over Phoenix back in 1997?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS1fusC7MtI[/media]

Edited by Bionic Bigfoot

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I'm hoping that some of the members here might have witnessed this event first hand so they can relate what they saw.

This sighting is one of the most pivital UFO events in modern times so far. It was a mass sighting seen by an estimated 10,000 people and the fly over lasted for over an hour. The governor of Arizona at the time (a pilot himself) offered a public apology years later admitting that he held back what he knew. He admitted that he witnessed the lights and object himself, that he was completely convinced it was nothing man made and nothing ordinary.

This case has never been solved and the lights have returned in recent years. The government as usual is saying nothing. The news reporters don't appear to be covering the details anymore either and since 1997...

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In some peoples opinion it has never been solved, a great many people are happy to accept the conventional explanations. The Governor of Arizona lost all credibility with his media floorshow. Pilots also contradict him, so his pilot status has naught meaning here.

Threads already on this here, here and here.

People either accept that maths shows the later event to be flares, or not and I see little doubt that the earlier sighting was conventional aircraft. It's up to how willing one is to turn a blind eye to the math. Look out for the posts by Boon and Lost Shaman in the BE III thread. I do not see how the math is incorrect therefore, flares.

Math does not lie, but claimants do. The lacklustre response to your thread would be because the threads listed above are not all that old I guess.

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Hi phsche101,

It would seem like a great many more people are not satisfied with such absurd explanations given. The Governor DID lose credibility when he orchestrated that debacle of a press conference. But at least he did have the guts to disclose the truths about what he saw and what he actually believed about the event. It shows strength of character to correct a mistake like he did and admit he held back information. Most politicians would rather never admit to making a mistake, let alone make a public annoucement about it.

I briefly went through those older topics on this subject you brought forth, and I saw the posts showing the 'math' on how it was flares. I'm not a mathmethician so it made very little sense to me. Using math to explain flares doesn't make any sense, period. The entire flare explanation has almost become as big a phenomena as the alien/UFO phenomena itself then, according to many.

Thanks for posting those links, but I'm looking to hear more for members who might have been there to witness the ET vehicle first hand. I also wish to discuss the sighting with those who don't seem to suffer from H.I.T.S.S. ;)

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Hi phsche101,

It would seem like a great many more people are not satisfied with such absurd explanations given. The Governor DID lose credibility when he orchestrated that debacle of a press conference. But at least he did have the guts to disclose the truths about what he saw and what he actually believed about the event. It shows strength of character to correct a mistake like he did and admit he held back information. Most politicians would rather never admit to making a mistake, let alone make a public annoucement about it.

I briefly went through those older topics on this subject you brought forth, and I saw the posts showing the 'math' on how it was flares. I'm not a mathmethician so it made very little sense to me. Using math to explain flares doesn't make any sense, period. The entire flare explanation has almost become as big a phenomena as the alien/UFO phenomena itself then, according to many.

Thanks for posting those links, but I'm looking to hear more for members who might have been there to witness the ET vehicle first hand. I also wish to discuss the sighting with those who don't seem to suffer from H.I.T.S.S. ;)

Hello and welcome bigfoot,

may I suggest you focus efforts on the earlier 8pm sighting as the maths presented so far is only in relation to the lights seen at 10pm not the 'low flying craft' (alleged) witnessed earlier.

but yes it would be great to have any first hand witnesses here on UM to discuss this event.

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Hi phsche101,

It would seem like a great many more people are not satisfied with such absurd explanations given. The Governor DID lose credibility when he orchestrated that debacle of a press conference. But at least he did have the guts to disclose the truths about what he saw and what he actually believed about the event. It shows strength of character to correct a mistake like he did and admit he held back information. Most politicians would rather never admit to making a mistake, let alone make a public annoucement about it.

I briefly went through those older topics on this subject you brought forth, and I saw the posts showing the 'math' on how it was flares. I'm not a mathmethician so it made very little sense to me. Using math to explain flares doesn't make any sense, period. The entire flare explanation has almost become as big a phenomena as the alien/UFO phenomena itself then, according to many.

Thanks for posting those links, but I'm looking to hear more for members who might have been there to witness the ET vehicle first hand. I also wish to discuss the sighting with those who don't seem to suffer from H.I.T.S.S. ;)

Gidday Mate

All I can suggest is that is you seek further clarification I have to take my hat of to Boon and Lost Shaman. I find the explanation very satisfactory, and then of course we have Mitch Stanley who saw planes quite clearly through his telescope. I own the same model Mitch Stanely does, and you can see all the way to another Galaxy with that fine piece of equipment. To me it all makes good sense, but I wish you well in your endeavours and encourage you to research the incident in depth to find the most accurate answer for you. As far as I know no poster has witnessed the Phoenix event personally, but we do have one poster who did witness a Hudson Valley sighting if you wish to pursue that one as well.

Personally, I find this also rather convincing.

phoenixflaresRibbon733x115.gif

However, best of luck in your research! I hope the threads answer some of your questions.

Cheers.

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Yes, psyche, that video clip closed it for me aswell.

What was seen over Phoenix that day was aircraft flying in formation, and flares,... not ET.

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What was seen over Phoenix that day was aircraft flying in formation, and flares,... not ET.

yeah, sure, ok....keep on day dreaming. :yes:

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yeah, sure, ok....keep on day dreaming. :yes:

No dream, that is my opinion based on the available evidence.

Did you even look at the links (the math) psyche posted for you? Did you se the clip showing the flares decending behind the ridge?

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No dream, that is my opinion based on the available evidence.

Did you even look at the links (the math) psyche posted for you? Did you se the clip showing the flares decending behind the ridge?

what evidence is there for the aircraft flying in formation theory? :innocent:

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Did you even look at the links (the math) psyche posted for you? Did you se the clip showing the flares decending behind the ridge?

Sure did, all greek to me and like I said to psyche101, using math to constitute evidence for flares like you did, makes no sense. And besides this, there were flares dropped that night over AZ and that was done specifically by the government to use as a decoy and smokescreen. The main event, the one witnessed by 1000's of Arizonians was not flares and as they testified it slowly moved over them, their houses, schools etc.

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Sure did, all greek to me and like I said to psyche101, using math to constitute evidence for flares like you did, makes no sense. And besides this, there were flares dropped that night over AZ and that was done specifically by the government to use as a decoy and smokescreen. The main event, the one witnessed by 1000's of Arizonians was not flares and as they testified it slowly moved over them, their houses, schools etc.

Lets put a side (for now) that you dont speak "greek", even though that might have something to do with your flawed conclusion,... Are you really saying that the Maryland Air National Guard dropped flares to cover-up a gigantic alien starship over the city?!

So that, and people seeing lights in the sky, by your logic, is all it takes for you to claim it must have been ET?

Ever heard of critical thinking?

Edited by Hazzard
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what evidence is there for the aircraft flying in formation theory? :innocent:

The 8:30 sighting, Stanley got a good look at the "vee" and saw passing planes through his telescope,... and witnesses in Prescott, a quieter environment, clearly heard jet noise. And videotapes of the later event taken that night by many people show without a doubt that this was a string of mundane lights that fell and disappeared behind the range, exactly as a string of flares dropped by the military planes would have. Then there were programs like Dateline, mixing the events that day, making it all seem more ET-like,...

To me this points away from the claim that ET passed slowly over Phoenix in a gigantic starship.

Separate mundane events (like so many times before) that got blow way out of proportion and is now forever part of UFOology.

Edited by Hazzard

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The 8:30 sighting, Stanley got a good look at the "vee" and saw passing planes through his telescope,... and witnesses in Prescott, a quieter environment, clearly heard jet noise. And videotapes of the later event taken that night by many people show without a doubt that this was a string of mundane lights that fell and disappeared behind the range, exactly as a string of flares dropped by the military planes would have. Then there were programs like Dateline, mixing the events that day, making it all seem more ET-like,...

To me this points away from the claim that ET passed slowly over Phoenix in a gigantic starship.

Separate mundane events (like so many times before) that got blow way out of proportion and is now forever part of UFOology.

If I exclude the comments about the later event, which have nothing to do with evidence for the earlier 8/8.30 sighting, I am left with one witness' testimony (Mitch's) and some other witness about them hearing a jet engine.

This then leads nicely back to, if we are to accept Mitch testimony as 'evidence' which you are claiming it is, can I now point you to the TT thread by Zoser which is loaded with 'evidence'?

Or do we choose when testimony counts as evidence?

Edited by quillius
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If I exclude the comments about the later event, which have nothing to do with evidence for the earlier 8/8.30 sighting, I am left with one witness' testimony (Mitch's) and some other witness about them hearing a jet engine.

This then leads nicely back to, if we are to accept Mitch testimony as 'evidence' which you are claiming it is, can I now point you to the TT thread by Zoser which is loaded with 'evidence'?

Or do we choose when testimony counts as evidence?

I knew you were getting at that :lol: There is a BIG differece here, quillius,... Im going to let you think about it until I get back, lets see if you can figure it out by yourself.

People claiming ET starship VS people claiming man-made aircraft.

Edited by Hazzard

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I knew you were getting at that :lol: There is a BIG differece here, quillius,... Im going to let you think about it until I get back, lets see if you can figure it out by yourself.

People claiming ET starship VS people claiming man-made aircraft.

ok so in summary depending on what is being claimed determines whether the 'testimony' counts as evidence or not, correct?

also lets remove the words ET starship for a minute. Many people give a testimony about what they witnessed, if they think it was ET or not is opinion and irrelevant to the observation.

So these other witnesses claiming to have seen a low flying slow moving craft didnt really see what they say they saw and were actually seeing a formation of planes, how do we know this, well basically we have evidence to counter the testimonies......oh yeah what evidence is that...ummmm.....well.....a further testimony but this one actually counts as evidence. really?

anyhow bottom line do you agree that there is no evidence for plane formation for the 8.30 sighting? :-*

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This website clearly points out all the discrepancies in the 'flare' theory and also many other nonsensical & 'explanablel' theories of what the Phoenix lights apparently were.

http://www.thephoenixlights.net/Myths.htm

One point in particular that is worth reiterating is that those who claim this event was nothing more than flares, truly are insulting 1000's of people and their intelligence. How arrogant and self righteous of them to dismiss all those witnesses as not being able to tell the difference between flares and something extraordinary.

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Oooh, I think I know this one..!!!

But it's Hazzard's issue, so I'll leave it to him. Quillius, I think you almost had it.. :D

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This website clearly points out all the discrepancies in the 'flare' theory and also many other nonsensical & 'explanablel' theories of what the Phoenix lights apparently were.

http://www.thephoeni...s.net/Myths.htm

I might have a peek at that later, but in the meantime...

One point in particular that is worth reiterating is that those who claim this event was nothing more than flares, truly are insulting 1000's of people and their intelligence.

How? Have thousands of people really made the direct claim that they were absolutely not flares? Does that link include the thousands of reports saying that? If it doesn't, is it possible you are adding a little drama? I note no-one who witnessed the event has posted here yet - I guess they are fearful of more intelligence insulting (despite their ability to anonymously post)..

How arrogant and self righteous of them to dismiss all those witnesses as not being able to tell the difference between flares and something extraordinary.

Dramatic indeed! ALL thousands of them, huh? :D

BB, could you, in your own words, please explain the very best evidence you have seen that clearly rules out the aircraft and flares theory?

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If you would watch the video I posted at the beginning of this topic you would see that yes, 1000's of people ARE claiming that they were not flares, not planes, not helicopters or balloons, but something they couldn't identify. The producer of the video, Dr. Lynne Kitei and many other volunteers spent over 3 months calling each and every one of the witnesses. Dr. Kitei said she made over 700 phone calls herself.

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If you would watch the video I posted at the beginning of this topic you would see that yes, 1000's of people ARE claiming that they were not flares, not planes, not helicopters or balloons, but something they couldn't identify. The producer of the video, Dr. Lynne Kitei and many other volunteers spent over 3 months calling each and every one of the witnesses. Dr. Kitei said she made over 700 phone calls herself.

Sadly I'm on a dreadful connection at the moment - text only is my limit.. But I'm afraid your description worries me. How many exactly? What questions were asked, and where can we see/hear the answers that were recorded? If we can't see the questions and answers, how can you assert that these thousands of folks specifically said they couldn't have been flares, and how were they qualified to make that judgement? And in regards to all those calls, how exactly did these people know who to call?

It does seem strange that none(few?) of these thousands seem to ever post on forums..

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Oooh, I think I know this one..!!!

But it's Hazzard's issue, so I'll leave it to him. Quillius, I think you almost had it.. :D

although Hazz asked me to figure it out for myself (ignoring the possible condesending interpretation of the phrase) I do not require the same from him and would welcome the answer from you.....the answer to the question, does testimony constitute evidence?

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Flares.

Watched a documentary where the same thing was recreated using...........yup ...flares.

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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Flares.

wow

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How many exactly?

1000's as I said, watch the video yourself if you want exact numbers, I don't remember the exact number.

What questions were asked, and where can we see/hear the answers that were recorded? If we can't see the questions and answers, how can you assert that these thousands of folks specifically said they couldn't have been flares, and how were they qualified to make that judgement? And in regards to all those calls, how exactly did these people know who to call?

The video is only an hour long. Do you really expect that they are going to divulge the private conversations between the callers and these witnesses and how could they have a record available to the public from 1000's of phone calls? Dr. Kitei and the volunteers received the calls from the witnesses and then were called back to get their stories and testimonies. I thoroughly doubt that any of these people who were contacted were calling about flares, they knew who Dr. Kitei is and her previous experience with the lights. Like I said, watch the video later if you're curious for more details.

It does seem strange that none(few?) of these thousands seem to ever post on forums..

Doesn't seem strange to me and maybe many do post on other forums, boards or blogs about what they saw over Phoenix in 1997. There are 1000's of sites about such topics online you know. ;)

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