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Bionic Bigfoot

The Phoenix Lights revisited

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so like i said .... frontlines... :gun:

LOL, yes, I suppose so. I get tired of arguing and debating the various points though. Some people only want to hear valid explanations for things, it's like their minds can't accept not having an answer. Then there are others who are perfectly contented and placated being spoon fed whatever they are told is fact. I'm not saying that the members here in this topic are easily placated, they are more the type who can't stand a riddle. ;)

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Not really. You wrote a lot, but you didn't address the fundamental question. If we assume that the citizens of Phoenix are quite familiar with flares, having seen them dropped and deployed numerous times, then they should be qualified to tell the difference between flares and whatever they saw earlier in the sky. But.....you and others are going to tell us again that the earlier event was planes right?

It is certainly your prerogative to disagree, but I would ask why you make the assumption that the citizens of Phoenix would be familiar with flares.

Dr. Lynne Kitei had been photographing and filming these flares for years, and she still doesn't believe they are flares even to this day. This does nothing to change the reality of what they are though. How many other people have seen the flares and not realized what they were? I'd say there are probably a great many. How many people had never even noticed them? Again, probably a great many.

As for the earlier event, yes I believe I've already expressed my opinion that the plane explanation is the most likely. Again, you are free to disagree with that and I won't attempt to force you from your position.

Rather than continuing this debate that just keeps going in circles, why can't you and the other skeptics just admit that something strange happened that night.

Something strange did happen that night. I don't think I've ever said otherwise. I think the only difference here is that I'm willing to accept that something out of the ordinary could still have a fully terrestrial explanation, and that so far there is no compelling evidence in support of the idea that the strangeness of the night was in any way other worldly.

Those people saw something else besides flares or planes, both of which I'm certain they are used to seeing all the time. It's not logical to believe that thousands of people got all worked up that night if they had seen something typical. The huge number of witnesses really should speak for itself. If this was only noticed and reported by let's say 50 or 100 people, then whatever they saw might be able to dismissed more easily. But, when 10,000 people come forward and all report seeing something unusual, this shouldn't be dismissed and can't be.

You can make blanket statements like this, but that doesn't make them correct. As for the number of witnesses, this has never been accurately recorded as far as I know. I think the claim that 10,000 people saw it is probably a grossly exaggerated misrepresentation.

The fact of the matter is that people are capable of taking something that is completely mundane and making it out to be something it isn't. This has been well established time and again. Consider the Morristown UFO Hoax as a prime example of this. Another link. And

.

And as for dismissing things, it seems to me that you and others who are already convinced of ET visitation are the ones who are actually dismissing things. Dismissing rational and conventional explanations which are well supported, substantiated, and confirmed; as is the case for the 10 PM flare conclusion. For anyone who can't even acknowledge this well established fact, how much moreso will their bias prevent them from even considering the possibility of a mundane explanation for the earlier flyover event?

The irony just drips off the page when I see ET believers accusing skeptics of being closed-minded.

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The irony just drips off the page when I see ET believers accusing skeptics of being closed-minded.

Nothing about this case is mundane, including this Project Snowbird business and someone on the radio saying they were a team of Canadian flyers--which was almost certainly false.

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Another nail in the coffin of the flare theory. Totally.

Not so much zoser.

But if you still disagree I suggest you take it up with Richard Motzer of MUFON, Stanton Friedman, Leslie Keen, Bruce Maccabee, and even James Fox; all of whom have confirmed that the 10 PM flare conclusion is completely legitimate, accurate, and fully established as factual.

Realize that this is what is known as an Appeal to Authority, which is a logical fallacy in itself. But considering that you appear to be incapable of accurately assessing all of the evidence used in support of this conclusion yourself, maybe you'll at least consider it as possible if these people you appear to respect so highly have themselves conveyed agreement with the conclusion.

Perhaps. :hmm:

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I think the actions of Gov. Symington, first making fun of the UFOs then becoming a Disclosure Project witness tell us a lot more about what was really going on.

Of course, if you look up his relative Stuart Symington, you will see that the family had some connection with UFOs in the past, as did his mentor Barry Goldwater.

Look up Stuart Symington sometime, first Secretary of the Air Force in 1947-50, who knew plenty about UFOs.

Symington_airforce.jpg

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Nothing about this case is mundane, including this Project Snowbird business and someone on the radio saying they were a team of Canadian flyers--which was almost certainly false.

And the master of unsubstantiated claims from a position of self implied authority strikes again.

I'm sure I don't need to point this out, but I will anyway. Your statements like this carry absolutely no weight whatsoever, except perhaps for those that enjoy bouncing on your knee during story time.

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And the master of unsubstantiated claims from a position of self implied authority strikes again.

I'm sure I don't need to point this out, but I will anyway. Your statements like this carry absolutely no weight whatsoever, except perhaps for those that enjoy bouncing on your knee during story time.

I think you know, Boon, that I already posted quite a few things about this, with various links and all that. No one does that more than I do, which you must also realize at this late date.

Of course, I did not post any of that for your benefit, although I think I also understand you pretty well.

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I think you know, Boon, that I already posted quite a few things about this, with various links and all that. No one does that more than I do, which you must also realize at this late date.

Of course, I did not post any of that for your benefit, although I think I also understand you pretty well.

You sure do enjoy propping yourself up and patting yourself on the back don't you?

Nobody does more than you do. Nobody knows more than you do. Nobody is as good as the big McG. Fight the good fight old chap. Stand up to the manTM and put him in his place. Let's have a parade in your honor so that you can ride through the streets waving to your adoring masses. All hail the conquering hero.

:rolleyes:

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And the master of unsubstantiated claims from a position of self implied authority strikes again.

I'm sure I don't need to point this out, but I will anyway. Your statements like this carry absolutely no weight whatsoever, except perhaps for those that enjoy bouncing on your knee during story time.

I must say, that your mastery of the use of eloquent soliloquy is highly entertaining :yes:

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I must say, that your mastery of the use of eloquent soliloquy is highly entertaining :yes:

Why thank you. :)

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You sure do enjoy propping yourself up and patting yourself on the back don't you?

Nobody does more than you do. Nobody knows more than you do. Nobody is as good as the big McG. Fight the good fight old chap. Stand up to the manTM and put him in his place. Let's have a parade in your honor so that you can ride through the streets waving to your adoring masses. All hail the conquering hero.

Boon is more like the master of diversions, spin and doubletalk, but a job is a job I suppose.

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Boon is more like the master of diversions, spin and doubletalk, but a job is a job I suppose.

Director, Black Ops, Public Relations :w00t:

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Boon is more like the master of diversions, spin and doubletalk, but a job is a job I suppose.

If I could get a job doing this, I'd jump at the opportunity.

So if anyone out there is hiring, please send me a PM. :tu:

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If I could get a job doing this, I'd jump at the opportunity.

So if anyone out there is hiring, please send me a PM. :tu:

Someone sent me an offer a couple days ago but I turned it down.

I told him that anyone and everyone is free to use the things I post on here with no charge. I never made any money from UFOs and never want to.

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The last 8 posts have nothing to do with the topic - how about less baiting before it goes further, and get back on topic. :tu:

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The last 8 posts have nothing to do with the topic - how about less baiting before it goes further, and get back on topic. :tu:

Agreed. :)

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Fair enough! :tu:

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Dr. Lynne Kitei had been photographing and filming these flares for years, and she still doesn't believe they are flares even to this day.

This is absurd. Do you honestly believe and think she isn't intelligent enough to know when she's seeing flares? She is a resident of Phoenix, a medical doctor and a very intelligent and credible person. Your statement is ridiculous. .

Something strange did happen that night. I don't think I've ever said otherwise. I think the only difference here is that I'm willing to accept that something out of the ordinary could still have a fully terrestrial explanation, and that so far there is no compelling evidence in support of the idea that the strangeness of the night was in any way other worldly.

And I'm willing to accept the fact that some people might have seen the flares that night and reported them as a UFOs. As you keep pointing out there were two events that night and the plane theory for the earlier event probably makes even less sense than the flares and being confused for a not of this earth UFO.

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One thing I have yet to see in this thread, or any other Phoenix lights thread for that matter, is where is the evidence that any of this was in fact ET? All I've seen is words to that effect without even the least bit of substantiation. Where is the evidence to show that this event (either of them) was from an otherworldly source?

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This is absurd. Do you honestly believe and think she isn't intelligent enough to know when she's seeing flares? She is a resident of Phoenix, a medical doctor and a very intelligent and credible person. Your statement is ridiculous. .

So what are her credentials that would give her insight into military training and the subsequent use and/or aerial disposal of illumination flares, exactly?

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One thing I have yet to see in this thread, or any other Phoenix lights thread for that matter, is where is the evidence that any of this was in fact ET? All I've seen is words to that effect without even the least bit of substantiation. Where is the evidence to show that this event (either of them) was from an otherworldly source?

Listen to the guy who actually took the famous videotape at 10 PM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O6V71QPwDEo

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This is absurd. Do you honestly believe and think she isn't intelligent enough to know when she's seeing flares? She is a resident of Phoenix, a medical doctor and a very intelligent and credible person. Your statement is ridiculous. .

There is nothing absurd or ridiculous about it. She's a very intelligent lady. I genuinely like her as a human being. I think she has a great heart, nothing but the purest of intentions, and I fully respect her beliefs. None of that changes the fact that much of her photography and videos are nothing more than illumination flares. If she feels spiritually enriched by them, I hope that the BGR continues operations indefinitely in order to provide her with more inspiration and warm fuzzy feelings. I'm not opposed to that in any way.

And I'm willing to accept the fact that some people might have seen the flares that night and reported them as a UFOs. As you keep pointing out there were two events that night and the plane theory for the earlier event probably makes even less sense than the flares and being confused for a not of this earth UFO.

I fully understand why people are hesitant to attribute these events to something mundane, or at least I think I fully understand. One of the biggest hesitations many people have is the impression that by suggesting such a thing you might be insulting the intelligence of the witnesses. Although I can see how that interpretation could be made, that's not the way I see it at all. I don't think less of any of these witnesses who were unable to identify what they saw. Perception is an amazingly complex thing, especially when something takes us by surprise, is indistinct, and/or is only there for a fleeting time. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Not any more than it has to do with being startled when someone waits for you to round a corner and says "boo!"

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Listen to the guy who actually took the famous videotape at 10 PM.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O6V71QPwDEo[/media]

Dammit. I think they're on to me!

When I click on that video link it says National Geographic has blocked for copyright reasons in my country.

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Listen to the guy who actually took the famous videotape at 10 PM.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O6V71QPwDEo[/media]

All I see in that video are people who don't agree with the flare theory, which is fine by me. What I don't see however is the evidence that the flares or the 'V' shaped object(s) were of alien origin. I'm not seeing the evidential pathway that leads from 'I don't know what that is' to 'it's from another world'.

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