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Bionic Bigfoot

The Phoenix Lights revisited

1,033 posts in this topic

Heavens, that was some quick work, Boon.

Nice to see the ol' gallows looking festive now, as well.

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I`ll just throw my two cents in Like a broken record !

What about the possibilities of it being something far grander than mere mortal man can understand?

Like ? The three mile Howard Johnson`s with there all you can eat Clam dinner restaurant and Bar in the Sky? Now thats more like it !

You remember that dont you ? :clap:

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applesandoranges_550x325_dialog.gif

:w00t::clap:

That's too funny booN! :tu:

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There is a lot of talk going on about flares again.

the people in Sonora Mexico that saw *something* could not have seen flares over Phoenix and here's why.

The A-10 with its LUU2 dispenser will drop the flare at 6,000 feet altitude.

the ignition starts at 3,000 feet and extinguishing at 500 feet.

The closest point in Sonora to Phoenix is too far away to see something at 3,000 feet of altitude

Also, there is the matter of mountains in Sonora and Arizona that are inconveniently in the way.

what a shame, huh?

I have not done the math to Nevada yet, it is getting to be pointless. But I might.

We'll see where this one ends up with the critical thinkers [cough] here

EDIT - furghetaboudit.

At about 18:55 PST (19:55 MST), a man reported seeing a V-shaped object above Henderson, Nevada. (wiki)

Henderson is about 250 miles away from phoenix. WAY to far to see anything at 3,000 feet altitude over Phoenix.

ta ta, critical thinkers.

There were no flares that night.

actually I'm having second thoughts about the 'flares'.....even as a cover-up move to muddy the waters...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdIdDpJYSOM&feature=related

maybe the ten o'clock lights was (another?) Big Black Delta flying slowly and silently across the skies..... :w00t:

.

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You are establishing the fact that the various people used different words and an assortment of similar-shaped objects to describe what they saw. Are you saying that because the reports are not all identical they saw nothing at all?? They are delusional??

If you think they saw *something*, please say so.

Hi Earl

Yes, I think they saw planes and flares. I do believe that the varying descriptions, particularly those pertaining to size indicate that many simply described that which illusory contours offered them.

My my, aren't we judgemental!! Whew. So the guy had a little fun with it. He also paid a heavy price for that little stunt. A lot of people were mad at him for not taking them seriously, which shows all the more, these people are SURE they saw something not to laugh about.

I know why you slam the man so much. It's because his testimony of seeing something "not of this world" tic's you off.

Sorry, my man, he was elected into the Governor's office so he cannot be so mentally unstable, now can he.

No Earl, if I felt I coud trust his testimony I would be over the moon. Why I have such a dim view of this fellow is because he is a public figure, and it is my opinion that those who throw themselves in the public spotlight have a responsibility to behave a certain way. If they do not wish to behave in a sensible way, then I feel they have no right throwing themselves into a spotlight Like a school teacher that poses nude. I think that is abusing that which one's position offers. A career, particularly one that influence others, is a responsible position. And that responsibility is to be upheld, or the responsibility removed, and an example made of the dissident. He deserves to pay a heavy price for his tomfoolery, and considering that his brother is a very keen UFO buff, I can see where his motivation came from.

He also should know that problems with making an extraordinary claim better than anyone. He offered nothing to support his position, nothing to p[rove any aspect of anyones sighting, but I bet he was in the crowd that shouted down Mitch Stanley. What do you think he has done to improve the situation? All I can see is him adding to the confusion and I feel that is deliberate in his behalf. An appeal to authority is the only reason he keeps being regurgitated If he was anyone else of the street, he wouldn't have even made the papers.

With the US policy, are you aware of a freak called Jonathan Sharkey? He has run for president. Is that allowed if mentally unstable?

Sharkey claims that he first drank blood at age five and now consumes the blood of his girlfriends and mistresses twice a week.[9][10] He has described his vampirism as "a very healthy thing to do" and has praised Hollywood for making vampire feeding practices "romantic and erotic". He drinks only women's blood because "women are beautiful... they have such beautiful necks and arms".[11] He claims to be well known among the vampire community, and says he drinks cow and pig blood.[12]

Sharkey is a Luciferian[7] who "turned against God" because he would not worship a God who "caused the deaths of innocent children" and "allowed his only son to be used as a sacrifice on the cross".[11] He compares Lucifer to the Founding Fathers of the United States, arguing that they both exemplify the idea of rebellion against tyranny.[7] He says he doesn't hate Jesus, just God the Father, and that he follows the goddess Hecate in addition to Lucifer. [7] In 2006, his then-wife and blood donor Julie Carpenter was fired from her job as a school bus driver in Princeton, Minnesota because her employer was nervous about having a "witch" driving schoolchildren around. Carpenter described herself as pagan rather than a witch, and said that her boss was unable to tell the difference.[1]

[edit]Political positions

He has described his policy on crime as follows: "Certain criminals, instead of being put in jail, they should be brutally tortured and impaled.... Upon them being found guilty of their crimes I'll beat them, torture them, dismember them and decapitate them."[10] In an appearance on Tucker Carlson's television show, he agreed with the host's description of him as "not simply a vampire, [but] a right-wing vampire" and said his policy for dealing with drug dealers is to "go to Sicilian families and have them attack the drug dealers for me".[11]

Sharkey strongly criticized President George W. Bush, whom he described as a "wuss" and a communist who was responsible for the deaths of innocent Americans in Saudi Arabia and Iraq. He has expressed a desire to try, and convict, and impale Bush,[11] and has since stated that "Obama is even worse than Bush, and I never thought anyone could be worse than Bush. He has no idea how to run a country, nor should he be running a country."[7]

Sharkey once served on the Hillsborough County, Florida Republican Party's Executive Committee. A. J. Matthews, who also serves on the committee, has described Sharkey as someone who believes in "Republican values" but said that Sharkey needs to focus on campaign issues rather than "extreme behaviors".[13]

Sharkey says that he would ban abortion and the teaching of evolution in public schools. On other social issues, he leans libertarian; he supports equal rights for gays. He opposes President Obama's health care reform and said that he would replace it with a plan of his own in which the poor would receive free medical and dental care; the expenses would be paid with government taxes on marijuana and prostitution, which Sharkey supports legalizing and regulating. On foreign policy, he wishes to bring American troops home from foreign war zones. In keeping with his belief in the goddess Hecate, he supports environmentalism and "protecting Mother Earth". He said that his ideal running mate would be former New Jersey governor Christine Todd Whitman. During the 2012 election cycle, he criticized Republican rival Michele Bachmann as "too flakey for me".[7]

Sharkey has filed with the Federal Election Commission to run for President of the United States twice as an Independent candidate (in 2004[14] and in 2008[15]) and for Congress in at least three states—his home State of New Jersey (1999–2000, Republican),[16]Indiana (Reform Party, 2000)[17] and Florida (2001–02, Republican).[18] In 2006, he ran for governor of Minnesota.

LINK

Harold Gunn, campaigning as a Republican candidate for the Texas House of Representatives in 2000, lost at the primary stage in March when it emerged that he had written and appeared in a pornographic film featuring naked women jogging through a Houston park and lathering themselves with motor oil.

William Levinger, running as the Republican nominee for election to the U.S. House of Representatives in Idaho in 1996, spent most of the final six weeks of his campaign holed up in a state mental institution after spectacularly imploding during a television interview. For reasons only he himself could know, halfway through the interview he propositioned the female reporter, offering her $5,000 if she would kiss him on camera. He then began stripping off his clothes. The station cut the broadcast when he was down to his underpants. Despite the restrictive circumstances of his last weeks of electioneering, he still managed to win 32 percent of the vote on polling day.

Pollies are people at the end of the day, and even that is often questioned.

What does strike me as particularly unbalanced is that the UFO buffs always say never trust the Government Yet in this case, we cas see that if the Government says "Believe in ET" then that changes completely. Cannot say I have much faith in the UFO buffs. This case is a testimonial of the contradiction of the ETH in general.

NO! which is why *I* rely on the testimony of people who *were* there, not that of some remote mathematician with a triangle up his butt.

No you are not. Some people say there was no triangle at all and clearly see where the confusion came from. What of them?

An alert owner of a home video camera caught the 8:30 vee pattern on tape. Terry Proctor filmed the vee for several minutes. The quality of the tape is poor, and even under enhancement the video shows nothing joining the five lights of the pattern. However, the pattern of lights changes over just a few seconds. The lights clearly move in relation to each other, proving that the lights represent five separate objects, rather than a solid body. This is consistent with witness reports from Prescott, where one light trailed the others temporarily.

I witnessed on March 13 what Mitch Stanley observed through his telescope. But I didn't need a telescope to observe the configuration, which appeared unbalanced at five. That was my first clue that it was interterrestrial. As I watched before it disappeared, I observed it peel off into the great beyond. To what country it belongs, I don't know or really care.

I just know those pilots are having a good laugh at our expense, especially when an individual on the Phoenix City Council calls for an all-out investigation utilizing the "Arizona air force." Maybe Frances Emma Barwood is the alien since she is not aware that Arizona doesn't have an air force. Oh, well. It is nice to know there are still some of us who are not misled by mass hysteria or by the movie Independence Day and have their power of reasoning intact. Thanks for printing this story and clearing up what has turned into a colossal mess.

Rose Kauffmann

Scottsdale

It is wonderful that people want to look up at the night sky, but it is better if they have equipment such as Mitch Stanley's telescope so they can more positively identify the things they are seeing. If Frances Emma Barwood wants to do something constructive during her 15 minutes of fame, she might draft rules to curb light pollution, such as Tucson has, so millions of dollars aren't wasted annually on billboard lights, etc., aimed needlessly into the Phoenix sky that diminish the view.

Jack Jones

via Internet

From what I have read, there certainly were individual lights as well as the big craft. that's certainly not a shocker nor a deal breaker.

OK, but what about the people saying there was no individual lights, and it was one big craft, whom you are largely relying upon for your version of events? If they are wrong about individual lights, is not not quite possible that they misinterpreted said lights via illusory contours, which is something everybody's brain does? And considering that, how many people say that both existed? Not thousands is it?

I will address info when it is not so one-sided. if people post all about flares, Snowbirds or warthogs, I usually just glance at it.

those are not burning issues to me. not at all. Talking about testimony (not one-sided) is good, as far as I am concerned.

Testimony is one sided though. It is a persons interpretation of events. If using their data in an unbiased fashion, would you not do what Boon and Lost Shaman did and take that data, remove their interpretation, and apply math to it to confirm the claim that goes with the data?

What you have sold yourself short on is that the data answers the questions where the conflicting claims just offer the very opposite. I would think consistency would be far more important than political correctness?

I lost my own text here, I won't do multi-quote - I can't recall what I typed before your above response.

Same happened to me on Friday. I have to stop using "quick reply" as the slightest tough sends the page backwards and I lose everything typed. Wasted far too much of my time on Friday, so I had to wait until now to adress this again.

But anyway,. look at these images for a chevron - https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=857

I can easily see how one individual could see something like a triangle in the black of night, in the sky and call it a chevron shape.

Why are you so critical of that? these are just citizens, not professional witnesses and they only use the words and objects they are familiar with to describe something they saw up in the blackened sky at quite a distance. you call them delusional?? wow.

Yes, it is very different. In a chevron, or maybe a boomerang, you have a hollow centre don't you? That was what so many said blacked out the stars. Yet some saw the same shape with a definite empty middle so they must have seen the stars through it. That too indicates people that are attempting to qualify something that is distorted through illusory contours. The size indicates this, the shape indicates this, the two things that appear to be common indicate illusory contours.

In my mind, you certainly cannot defeat "EXISTENCE" by trying to claim contradiction.

These people saw *something* that scared the witts out of them. Why do you deny this?

I do not existence, hence the plane/flare conclusions, but I do not think too many had their wits frightened out of them at all. I suspect that larger majority loked up and went "what's that?" A handful of zealots got a little carried away, and I do not think that is altogether uncommon. I see nothing to indicate fear, no looting, no damage no reports of hysteria. Just a lot of people, some of whom think what they saw was an Alien craft, but cannot prove that was the case.

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Psyche101,

Please understand that I do not have a lot of time to be in here.

As it is now, I usually get about half as much time as I would prefer so I have to really pick-and-choose, and then run.

I skip a lot of posts because I have to keep it short and sweet, so I look at ones of interest to me.

When you reply back to me, it is so damn hard for me to work with a text that has 10 quote-breaks in it that I prefer not to attempt the multi-quote now.

hope you understand.

trump

I completely understand, and have the same problems myself. Some days I get more time than others.

No problem at all, I would prefer you take your time.

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There is a lot of talk going on about flares again.

the people in Sonora Mexico that saw *something* could not have seen flares over Phoenix and here's why.

The A-10 with its LUU2 dispenser will drop the flare at 6,000 feet altitude.

the ignition starts at 3,000 feet and extinguishing at 500 feet.

The closest point in Sonora to Phoenix is too far away to see something at 3,000 feet of altitude

Also, there is the matter of mountains in Sonora and Arizona that are inconveniently in the way.

what a shame, huh?

I have not done the math to Nevada yet, it is getting to be pointless. But I might.

We'll see where this one ends up with the critical thinkers [cough] here

EDIT - furghetaboudit.

At about 18:55 PST (19:55 MST), a man reported seeing a V-shaped object above Henderson, Nevada. (wiki)

Henderson is about 250 miles away from phoenix. WAY to far to see anything at 3,000 feet altitude over Phoenix.

ta ta, critical thinkers.

But this was a particular operation that performed a high altitude drop.

North of Phoenix over Lake Pleasant, three pilots in the cockpit of an America West 757 airliner, headed to Las Vegas at 17,000 feet, noticed the strange v-formation of five bright lights off to their right and slightly above them in this heavily trafficked airspace. “Hey, there’s a UFO!” co-pilot John Middleton kidded pilot Larry Campbell. Puzzled by what they were seeing, Middleton queried the regional air traffic control center in Albuquerque, N.M. A controller radioed back that it was a flight of CT-144’s at 19,000 feet. Apparently overhearing this exchange, a pilot claiming to be part of the formation spoke up.

“We’re Canadian Snowbirds flying Tutors,” the mystery pilot radioed Middleton. “We’re headed to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base.”

An air show performance team, the Snowbirds are pilots of the Canadian Air Force based at Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, who fly CT-144’s, a two-seat training jet nicknamed the Tutor, which has a single landing light in its nose. Normally the Snowbirds perform at North American air shows from April through October each year.

LINK

As far as I know, this aspect is not disputed.

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Exactly, yet you seem to figure the skeptics are wrong and you have the answer?

And based on guessing what the dog was barking at?

Your own example illustrates that you delve into that which you defy.

It does..? how so??

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I have never denied the existence of the military exercises and private planes in the area. I do feel that all evidence that exists firmly supports these solutions.

Psyche, that is not what I meant. Do you think anything in the "very unusual" order was in the sky that night *besides* military and flares?

Indeed, the scenario you typed out insisted something different happened on that night. And it did. Hale-Bop was making itself visible. A Major celestial event, which I feel is why people were looking up that night so late, and noticed what was going on.

Hale-Bopp was indeed in the skies. You right now are trying to say that's ALL there was in the skies - besides military.

Everyone knows what a comet is and everyone knew Hale-Bopp was to be seen that night. They *do* know the difference.

What else was in the sky?

Yes, My wife will jump if she hears a hare outside. She will sit in bed terrified talking to me on the phone until I arrive home. If I hear a Hare outside or a Roo, I know what lives in the area, and am not concerned but curiosity will prompt me to have a look most of the time, as I like seeing wildlife in my yard. She is gravely disturbed, but not I. People react differently to different situations. Not to blow my own horn or anything, but I think perhaps I am a bit more fearless than others? I could never understand why people fear fear at a ball of light. But many claims such. My two sightings did not at all send a shiver through any part of me. I was merely fascinated.

That is why some people saw a giant craft and some saw individual lights.

Complete and utter bullsh*t - and there is no other way to say it.

You were NOT there, you have NO WAY to establish that assertion and you know it. More wishful thinking!

That is what I see wrong here. The media. Whenever we rely on the media for information, from science to sightings, it gets it all wrong 99.9% of the time. Scientists hate talking to journalists for this very reason. I am sure I have left you the link to ABC's media watch article, whereby the Australian Broadcasting Commission went to the NT Times, a northern newspaper, and ousted the constant claims of alien ships, the NT News editor got snarky and cheeky, and said "All the UFO stuff is tongue in cheek anyway". The media has absolutely no accountability, and canot be relied upon as an accurate source. Hence, the photos, videos and math. That can tell us who is telling the truth, and who is not.

#1 - think of this. WOOF. many many people spoke out that night. The only person on a government level that spoke to the people was the governor of Arizona. Nevada and Arizona each have two Senators and several members of the House. *at the very least*, some or all could have/should have tried to calm and comfort those people, their own constituents. It didn't happen. That alone should tell you something very big about the feds trying their damndest to cover it all up. Had the Representatives/Senators spoken out to the people via the media, *then*, they will have added a strong evidence that the whole incident reached a critical level and now, people all over the rest of the country and world, would take teh witnesses seriously and Big Gov has real problems, at that point.

Hence, it's the old "stand down" trick of the government. Shhhhhh!!! Works like a charm!

I also believe the Feds had the governor pull that little stunt with the ET.

BigGov knows that to get people to shut up about it, hold them up for ridicule. Works great!!

As far as who is telling the truth...? you know it's proven that the government LIED. their explanation to the *whole * thing was flares.

As far as the people are concerned, you know they were very disturbed in some cases, you know what they said they saw, and for the most cases they must be taken seriously because you don't get that many people to react to a damn weather balloon or a comet. They are so numerous that you must also consider that - unless they are having some huge conspiracy, they have to be telling the truth as best they can. you cannot get so many thousands of people to react like that in one night. It never happened before that and hasn't happened since. Shouldn't these confused, nervous nellies be having these sightings once a month, say??

Anyway, the government is the liar, the people are mostly telling the ,truth and you find it convenient to believe proven liars in this case.

your critical thinking here is critically ill, sorry.

That I agree with that. Yes I do not deny people saw something. Yet evidence does not support the erratic claims of a giant craft.

Well you never did see any radar evidence and you never *will*. I am not sure where you can just slough off the people as "no evidence".

In fact, I am sure you cannot. They were there, you weren't. And like it or not, "eye witness testimony" is allowed in court.

And by the way,

What these people saw and the way they described it, varied. We already talked about this.

If you can believe that there are no similarities to a boomerrang and a crescent, or a V-shaped craft, or a carpenter's square shape,

than in MO, you are being grossly unfair. the shapes are similar. the people viewing are not professionals trained to be looking for UFO's, nor were they ready to see any UFO's that night, they got caught faltfooted. Alos, it was night, it was dark.

what do you want from them, the name, make and model of the craft? I mean, really?! they never *saw* one of these before

I think they did fine under the circumstances.

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Nobody ever said that flares explained everything. The 'V' shaped object sighted all over the place has never been explained as flares.The flares explanation only applies to the 10PM sighting in Phoenix. Every other sighting anywhere else at any other time has nothing to do with flares. A formation of planes has been suggested for all other sightings of a 'V' shaped object. That is the distinction I'm trying to point out to you.

I guess then what I am trying to explain to you is, the flare explanation doesn't hold water even at the 100 o'clock incident if the viewer is too far awyay beyond a certain distance. Prescott Valley is one such location.

I have not had time to see the entire database of sightings/times. Maybe some day

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actually I'm having second thoughts about the 'flares'.....even as a cover-up move to muddy the waters...

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdIdDpJYSOM&feature=related[/media]

maybe the ten o'clock lights was (another?) Big Black Delta flying slowly and silently across the skies..... :w00t:

.

Ya know, bee, I had a little time to think about it.

I did commit in here to thinking that the mother ship might be man made, and perhaps black delta.

I'm getting away from that. I do not think thye would ever fly it near a populaion center if they are trying to keep it hidden.

ET, or maybe humans from the future.

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But this was a particular operation that performed a high altitude drop.

[/font][/color]

LINK

As far as I know, this aspect is not disputed.

doesn't matter. the flares won't ignite until 3000 feet of altitude.

I think I blew it, Psyche. I think I RE-replied to a post of yours that you already answered and now I have to get to your latest. not today, though

Ont thing really caught my eye in your most recent.

You mentioned that you disliked the Governor of Arizona because he, as a responsible politician is supposed to behave a certain way

I AGREE!!

first time ever? lets mark that on the calendar LOL

Now, on the subject then, of *"beavior" by a politican, how about the four Senators from Arizona/Nevada plus THIRTEEN reps? how they lookin'??

How about their behavior? - or lack thereof. Where were they all thru this incident and in the days to follow? Talk about silent movies, Jeesh.

A *responsible* politician would at least talk to the people and try to calm their fears and promise to have in investigation to show s/he is concerned.

Not a useless one of them one did a DAMN thing.

Strange, or is it a conspiracy amongst them and Washington pols, intel, military?

remember now, no making stuff up LOL

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps

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doesn't matter. the flares won't ignite until 3000 feet of altitude.

I realize that you have some issues with me Earl, but I wonder if I might be able to trouble you with explaining why you are under the impression that flares wouldn't ignite until 3000 feet of altitude?

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I realize that you have some issues with me Earl, but I wonder if I might be able to trouble you with explaining why you are under the impression that flares wouldn't ignite until 3000 feet of altitude?

Beat me to it. ^_^

Btw, welcome back EoT. I too would like to see where you got this little bit from. :tu:

Edit: From my understanding the LUU2/B flares work with a timer, not an altimeter so they could ignite at virtually any altitude depending on how they are configured.

Edit2: We are talking about the difference between normal operational procedures (ie ground illumination) as opposed to jettisoning unused flares which wouldn't necessarily have a maximum altitude deployment restriction.

Edited by Slave2Fate

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Beat me to it. ^_^

Btw, welcome back EoT. I too would like to see where you got this little bit from. :tu:

Edit: From my understanding the LUU2/B flares work with a timer, not an altimeter so they could ignite at virtually any altitude depending on how they are configured.

Edit2: We are talking about the difference between normal operational procedures (ie ground illumination) as opposed to jettisoning unused flares which wouldn't necessarily have a maximum altitude deployment restriction.

Yes, they are on a timer. Here are a handful of links which talk about them, for any interested.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/luu2.htm

http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/luu2.htm

http://www.markwaki.com/pages/LUU-2BB.htm

http://www.ordnance.org/luu2bb.htm

In addition, here's a link to the flight manual for the A10-Warthog available on Scribd.

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Well that just about says it all in one word ! Nah ! :no:

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As far as who is telling the truth...? you know it's proven that the government LIED. their explanation to the *whole * thing was flares.

Hi again Earl. Could I also trouble you to explain why you are under the impression that anyone has tried to explain "the *whole * thing" as flares?

I'm not sure that I've ever seen anyone make this claim, so if they have it should be corrected.

Thanks Earl.

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Yes, they are on a timer. Here are a handful of links which talk about them, for any interested.

http://www.fas.org/m...s/dumb/luu2.htm

http://www.tpub.com/aviord321/51.htm

http://www.globalsec...itions/luu2.htm

http://www.markwaki....ges/LUU-2BB.htm

http://www.ordnance.org/luu2bb.htm

In addition, here's a link to the flight manual for the A10-Warthog available on Scribd.

From your second link:

The mechanical timer assembly consists of a mechanical timer and related hardware in a Lexan plastic housing. The nonexplosive mechanical timer functions like the explosive Mk 364 fuze on the Mk 45 flare. The mechanical timer is a three-gear timer, powered by a torsional mainspring. A phosphorescent plastic decal with calibrated markings from 250 to 11,000 feet of fall is located on the face of the timer cover. A white, plastic, dial timer knob is used to set the desired drop distance. Settings of 150,500, and 1,000 to 11,000 feet can be selected. A safe setting is also provided.

So if the timers are set to say, 1000 ft. and are deployed at (example) 20,000ft they would ignite at 19,000 ft.

There is no inherent feature of the LUU2b flare that determines if it can only ignite at a certain altitude.

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If you hold a Roman candle and point it into your eyes you just might be a Red Eye believer ! :no:

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Ya know, bee, I had a little time to think about it.

I did commit in here to thinking that the mother ship might be man made, and perhaps black delta.

I'm getting away from that. I do not think thye would ever fly it near a populaion center if they are trying to keep it hidden.

ET, or maybe humans from the future.

fair enough....

thanks for at least taking the time to think about it and comment

cheers Earl....

(at this point in time I haven't changed my mind about the possibilty of Big Black Delta(s) being the answer...

or something along those lines)

:tu:

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fair enough....

thanks for at least taking the time to think about it and comment

cheers Earl....

(at this point in time I haven't changed my mind about the possibilty of Big Black Delta(s) being the answer...

or something along those lines)

:tu:

Good to hear that you've come to realize that it was planes for the earlier event and flares for the later event bee. :)

That is what you're saying, right?

;)

:P

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It does..? how so??

By refusing one to come to a conclusion. Whilst the critical thinkers have brought mountains of information to the table to qualify what is actually possible, you are asking one to discount all the for an anonymous cherry picked testimony from someone whom you assume "was there". An anonymous claim could come from me Earl, and I live in the other side of the world, but lets face it, would a place like UFO Chronicles investigate my claim or just post it?

Your insistance on listening to those who "were there" stifles many people with a different story to tell. You only want to listen to those who claim to have been there that talk about a giant triangle, what about the other testimonies?

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Psyche, that is not what I meant. Do you think anything in the "very unusual" order was in the sky that night *besides* military and flares?

Hale-Bop is unusual. That was in the sky. That was the only unusual thing in the sky.

Do I think something like a giant triangle, or a giant boomerang, or a giant semi circle was in te sky and it was some sort of craft? No way.

Is that what you mean?

Hale-Bopp was indeed in the skies. You right now are trying to say that's ALL there was in the skies - besides military.

Everyone knows what a comet is and everyone knew Hale-Bopp was to be seen that night. They *do* know the difference.

What else was in the sky?

Yes they do know the difference. Hale Bop was a reason to look up. That was why so many witness military exercises at night. I really doubt that most of Phoenix regularly walks outside and carefully scans the sky, as one does when a celestial event is present.

That is the big difference. People had a reason to look up that night, and because they did, they saw something they normally would not. They would normally be in bed or watching TV at 10PM, this is considering that you speak of the later sighting, and I assume as much due to the frequent references to flares by yourself.

Complete and utter bullsh*t - and there is no other way to say it.

You were NOT there, you have NO WAY to establish that assertion and you know it. More wishful thinking!

What is bullsh*t Earl? That people react differently, I do not think so. All I did was offer you a personal example of such, that does happen to me on a regular basis.

I think it is wishful thinking to believe that everyone in Phoenix thinks this was one giant craft. I have clearly established that is simply not the case. You seem to think that the claims that made the papers, and I believe did so due to the nature of the telling of the recollection, are the only ones that exist. Did you read Rose Kaufmanns claim? It solidly refutes something amazing happening as you claim did. She "was there".

How can you establish which ones are telling the truth? Personally, I find maths can prove that, and obviously it does, but you refuse it for reasons unknown and run with unsubstantiated claims. Were you in Phoenix to verify these people were there on the night or have you verified that any of the claimants you have taken for gospel are even residents of Phoenix? Or are you believing something you have read someplace? Does it not make sense to apply any parameters one can to establish just who is telling the truth seeiming as neither you nor I were there?

#1 - think of this. WOOF. many many people spoke out that night. The only person on a government level that spoke to the people was the governor of Arizona. Nevada and Arizona each have two Senators and several members of the House. *at the very least*, some or all could have/should have tried to calm and comfort those people, their own constituents. It didn't happen. That alone should tell you something very big about the feds trying their damndest to cover it all up. Had the Representatives/Senators spoken out to the people via the media, *then*, they will have added a strong evidence that the whole incident reached a critical level and now, people all over the rest of the country and world, would take teh witnesses seriously and Big Gov has real problems, at that point.

Hence, it's the old "stand down" trick of the government. Shhhhhh!!! Works like a charm!

Wow, paranoid some?

Are you serious? Because other senators did not act like complete fools you assume they are in on a cover up, and that they must have seen something because that clown Symmington claimed to have done so?

Are you serious?

I also believe the Feds had the governor pull that little stunt with the ET.

BigGov knows that to get people to shut up about it, hold them up for ridicule. Works great!!

The idiot in the costume was his own chief of staff. No blaming this on the MIB, this dumb stunt was Fife's very own idea.

Did this clown demand answers from Washington? Did he open any avenues, tell the people how to attain disclosure, or do anything helpful at all? Or did he just run with the popular idea? What did that stunt actually accomplish? The only people that saw him as a fiool were some critical thinkers. Far too many ohhed and ahhhhhed over an official Governor being so bold about the "Governmental Taboo" subject! The sacrifice was contrived and based on an appeal to authority. I am very surprised so many fell for that ridiculous stage show.

As far as who is telling the truth...? you know it's proven that the government LIED. their explanation to the *whole * thing was flares.

The 8PM sighting was never explained as flares at any point in time.

The 10PM event was. And the Government did not lie. Some dumbass reporter checked the wrong logs.

As far as the people are concerned, you know they were very disturbed in some cases, you know what they said they saw, and for the most cases they must be taken seriously because you don't get that many people to react to a damn weather balloon or a comet. They are so numerous that you must also consider that - unless they are having some huge conspiracy, they have to be telling the truth as best they can. you cannot get so many thousands of people to react like that in one night. It never happened before that and hasn't happened since. Shouldn't these confused, nervous nellies be having these sightings once a month, say??

No, they do not look up. The exercises are not a nightly event. In this instance they happened to co-incide with a visiting comet, so people looked up to see the comet and saw more activity than a comet, and in some cases, over reacted to what they assumed was an unknown. It has happened since, and because people were ready and waiting for it, it did not have the same impact.

Even the perception of a giant triangle never fired upon anyone, it never acted threateningly in any fashion. Those how claimed fear had not reason for such did they? So why fear? Contrived. Just like the triangle shape.

Anyway, the government is the liar, the people are mostly telling the ,truth and you find it convenient to believe proven liars in this case.

your critical thinking here is critically ill, sorry.

If my critical thinking is ill......... Who does Fife Symington work for? Who does Mitch Stanley work for? Apply that to the above, and what do you get?

Well you never did see any radar evidence and you never *will*. I am not sure where you can just slough off the people as "no evidence".

In fact, I am sure you cannot. They were there, you weren't. And like it or not, "eye witness testimony" is allowed in court.

Eye witness testimony has been proven to be wrong in 75% of cases overturned by DNA evidence. That is why its position in a courtroom is being evaluated. Modern science, and math, has shown eye witnesses are very often very wrong.

The same applies, were you there, how do you know which witness was telling the truth? Was Rose Kauffman, Phoenix resident telling the truth when she said she had a good vantage point and saw planes?

And by the way,

What these people saw and the way they described it, varied. We already talked about this.

And many discrepancies have been noted. That means many people had a different perception of what they think they saw. That makes sense to me that if individual lights were the cause, then this is exactly what would happen because the shifting pattern would offer differing views at different points in time. This explains, and allows for differing testimonies.

If you can believe that there are no similarities to a boomerrang and a crescent, or a V-shaped craft, or a carpenter's square shape,

than in MO, you are being grossly unfair. the shapes are similar. the people viewing are not professionals trained to be looking for UFO's, nor were they ready to see any UFO's that night, they got caught faltfooted. Alos, it was night, it was dark.

what do you want from them, the name, make and model of the craft? I mean, really?! they never *saw* one of these before

I think they did fine under the circumstances.

If that is your opinion then I feel you are making generous allowances. A triangle blocks out all the light correct? Is that not the description? Not the case with a boomerang, you would see the stars in the centre. Totally different things, and the descriptions that say "It blocked out ALL the stars" has to be a triangle not a boomerang. So if some people saw stars, and some did not, that indicates to me that people had different perceptions as per their eyesight, and this would well affect the illusory contours that everyone is privy to. If the object if "overhead" one cannot be mistaking the sighting due to parallax error, yet this is where both descriptions come from. Back to illusory contours again.

I do not understand your objection to testing the claims for validity and insisting on running with perception. I canot see how that could possibly be accurate.

Edited by psyche101
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doesn't matter. the flares won't ignite until 3000 feet of altitude.

Not the case Earl

4. The case assembly with the tamped candle The mechanical timer assembly consists of a mechanical timer and related hardware in a Lexan plastic housing. The mechanical timer is a three-gear timer, powered by a torsional mainspring. A phosphorescent plastic decal with calibrated markings from 250 to 11,000 feet of fall is located on the face of the timer cover. A white, plastic, dial timer knob is used to set the desired drop distance. Settings of 250, 500, and 1,000 to 11,000 feet can be selected. A safe setting is also provided.

LINK

I think I blew it, Psyche. I think I RE-replied to a post of yours that you already answered and now I have to get to your latest. not today, though

Ont thing really caught my eye in your most recent.

You mentioned that you disliked the Governor of Arizona because he, as a responsible politician is supposed to behave a certain way

I AGREE!!

first time ever? lets mark that on the calendar LOL

Marked, but I do not always disagree with you Earl. I think you have posed some very good questions, and you are polite to me so I do my best to return the courtesy. You are the sort of bloke I would enjoy a cold beer with I am sure. I just find that I think you put far too much faith in the media. That is where the stories are coming from, and the media has a real bad reputation for twisting the facts to make a story sound more juicy.

Now, on the subject then, of *"beavior" by a politican, how about the four Senators from Arizona/Nevada plus THIRTEEN reps? how they lookin'??

How about their behavior? - or lack thereof. Where were they all thru this incident and in the days to follow? Talk about silent movies, Jeesh.

A *responsible* politician would at least talk to the people and try to calm their fears and promise to have in investigation to show s/he is concerned.

Not a useless one of them one did a DAMN thing.

Strange, or is it a conspiracy amongst them and Washington pols, intel, military?

remember now, no making stuff up LOL

I like to leave links so that people can see confirmation of what I am saying. I tend to state when I speculate.

I am honestly not sure what you expect them to say. So many people were running around with their own stories, I am not sure how they could make the situation better. Surely thousands of people were not terrified and required comforting. I reuse to believe that America is so wimpy. I could not see one of the guys I talk to here running for cover in a situation like Phoenix, but running for a camera. Mitch Stanley was not phased, either was Rose Kauffman. I truly believe you have received the wrong impression from the media and have an unlikely picture. I do not know of any reason to think that the larger majority of Phoenix were terrified by the sighting and why they would need a senator to speak to them. I would think that given the UFO treatment the situation received would be enough reason for people to not want the Government involved considering the comments I see on this board, such as you have expressed above.

Let me know what you think of this take on Symmingtons antics. - LINK

Edited by psyche101

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Good to hear that you've come to realize that it was planes for the earlier event and flares for the later event bee. :)

That is what you're saying, right?

;)

:P

I think Bee always knew it very well deep down. I think she has some fun with us ;)

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