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Why do you believe in UFO's and aliens?


Bionic Bigfoot

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The Japanese also had jets during WWII [media=]

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Hardly be what Kenneth Arnold saw..

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I believe that Arnold saw something and not a mirage like some claim. I know that recently there are

sightings of triangular shaped craft and I often wonder if it isn't secret military because the B2 and F117

are simular in shape. In Popular Mechanics Magazine there was an artist conception of a stealth blimp.

I often wonder if that is what people are seeing. But then again it was 1947 when Arnold had his sighting

and one has to wonder, did we have the technology back then to create craft like that with such high speeds

that Arnold claimed at around 1200 MPH. And the saucer shape craft is a mystery also.

post-103357-0-69139200-1350873458_thumb.

Edited by Ryegrog
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I believe that Arnold saw something and not a mirage like some claim. I know that recently there are

sightings of triangular shaped craft and I often wonder if it isn't secret military because the B2 and F117

are simular in shape. In Popular Mechanics Magazine there was an artist conception of a stealth blimp.

I often wonder if that is what people are seeing. But then again it was 1947 when Arnold had his sighting

and one has to wonder, did we have the technology back then to create craft like that with such high speeds

that Arnold claimed at around 1200 MPH. And the saucer shape craft is a mystery also.

If he was at all correct about the speed, and he said it was a conservative estimate, then no country on earth had aircraft that could fly nearly that fast in 1947. They simply did not exist yet--not anywhere.

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I knew you wouldn't take long to appear in this thread...lol

I'm not labelling the secrecy in any way a conspiracy.

Personally, I adhere to (one of) the dictionary's definitions of a conspiracy, that being; "an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot."

I am not implying anything illegal is happening. Governments and others, are allowed to retain secrets if the material is deemed in the interest of national security or various other reasons. Just because a large portion of the population are interested or curious about the truth and they can't find out, doesn't mean (in my mind) that there is a sinister plot going on within governing bodies.

Secondly, I didn't mean to imply that there is collusion between governments taking place. There may be cooperation at various levels between the likes of Britain, USA, and Canada, for instance, but like you I can't picture an international level of cooperation taking place behind the scenes to this extent. My thoughts are that for the most part, programs of this nature would be handled independantly by nations, but with the usual (maybe more) level of espionage taking place. No doubt they would all have similar reasons motivating them to do so.

I think any governments with such a program in place, would be conducting it at very secure levels for a number of reasons, national security and the potential (in their minds) for public harm being two of them.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I just have my beliefs. I don't but into the 911, Ancient Aliens, David Childress, Alex Jones type of philosophy. I try for the most part not to convince others of my views, I just enjoy some healthy debate which in the long run, hopefully, will bring out the truth.

I recognize that I may be completely wrong, so be it.

Certain members have done quite a job of having me re-examine my views on at least one important case, the Phoenix Lights (damn you all :passifier:)

I do not post as much as I used to.

Thank you for the post, well said, and I agree largely with it as we must have black ops programs. Human natures dictates that such must exist.

However the bolded is what I seek my answer to. If the US is colluding with ET, then every other Government must know. They do have the technical capability but not the loyalty. Every weapon on earth is pointed back at earth, as is all of our surveillance equipment. Does that not indicate that the threats we have identified are not from space at all? And that such is not expected to appear from there?

How can even a US/ET collusion work considering the governmental global situation? How can it work? If anything, every precedent was shouted from the rooftops, rather the exact opposite of what is required for ET to be here on earth, and in cahoots with the Government in return for silence.

Far as I can see it cannot. I think this indicates that Government stories of covering up ET and or ET collusion are most likely to be bogus.

If anyone has any sensible insights on this one, I'd be much obliged.

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Every weapon on earth is pointed back at earth, as is all of our surveillance equipment. Does that not indicate that the threats we have identified are not from space at all? And that such is not expected to appear from there?

Where did you hear that? How do you know that's true?

It never has been true by the way.

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I do not post as much as I used to.

Thank you for the post, well said, and I agree largely with it as we must have black ops programs. Human natures dictates that such must exist.

However the bolded is what I seek my answer to. If the US is colluding with ET, then every other Government must know. They do have the technical capability but not the loyalty. Every weapon on earth is pointed back at earth, as is all of our surveillance equipment. Does that not indicate that the threats we have identified are not from space at all? And that such is not expected to appear from there?

How can even a US/ET collusion work considering the governmental global situation? How can it work? If anything, every precedent was shouted from the rooftops, rather the exact opposite of what is required for ET to be here on earth, and in cahoots with the Government in return for silence.

Far as I can see it cannot. I think this indicates that Government stories of covering up ET and or ET collusion are most likely to be bogus.

If anyone has any sensible insights on this one, I'd be much obliged.

View this video at exactly 43:30. It shows a letter from the USAF in response to a FOI request relating the UFO coverup.

I've seen this letter elsewhere, and I believe it's legit. Whether or not they have anything, they won't say.

"As regards to this subject matter, mere existence or non-existence is currently and properly classified per Executive Order and exempt from any mandatory disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act because it would reveal defence capability or lack thereof."

To me, that plainly means that UFO's are of definate interest to them.

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Where did you hear that? How do you know that's true?

It never has been true by the way.

I've heard there's quite a garrison of satellites up there which are pointed away from Earth.

Edited by synchronomy
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I've heard there's quite a garrison of satellites up there which are pointed away from Earth.

There has been radar that can detect things coming in from space for decades, and various kinds of weapons that can hit things up there, although of course just about all these things can have a "dual purpose", so the ET/UFO aspect does not have to be openly acknowledged.

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I've heard there's quite a garrison of satellites up there which are pointed away from Earth.

Indeed. All civilian birds looking into space for scientific purposes. On the contrary, all military hardware is looking down at Earth or LEO where intercontinental ballistic missile warheads would be flying.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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If he was at all correct about the speed, and he said it was a conservative estimate, then no country on earth had aircraft that could fly nearly that fast in 1947. They simply did not exist yet--not anywhere.

That's a pretty big if though. Suppose the objects were actually smaller than he had estimated and therefore closer, the distance traveled for his speed calculation would have been less and so would the resulting speed. That's the problem with angular size, and it is further complicated by the fact that he may not have observed everything with as much accuracy as we'd all like to give him credit for.

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That's a pretty big if though. Suppose the objects were actually smaller than he had estimated and therefore closer, the distance traveled for his speed calculation would have been less and so would the resulting speed. That's the problem with angular size, and it is further complicated by the fact that he may not have observed everything with as much accuracy as we'd all like to give him credit for.

About the last thing I want to do is re-argue the Arnold case, but I do know that he reduced his estimate of speed from 1,600 miles per hour or more because it just sounded too fantastically fast for 1947.

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Dr. Oberth also knew that UFOs could move very fast when they wanted to--up to speeds of 19 kilometers per second--and that this had been measured dozens of times. That is 11.4 miles per SECOND--over 40,000 miles per hour.

Not science fiction.

Is there any indication that Oberth knew this was fact though?

What I do know about Oberth is that he studied for a career in medecine but could never shake his dream of working with Rockets. From the age of 11 he was more than fascinated with the Jules Vern tale "From Earth to the Moon". So much in fact that he knew the book by heart. And that his 1922 paper on the problems associated with rocket powered flight was dismissed as being too speculative. Unhindered, he went on to write a novel based on that paper called By Rocket to Space. Which was indeed very successful in it's time. This prompted many rocket scientists to use his fictional values in order to attempt to accomplish his hypotheses in real time. As a result, many people were not able to distinguish fact from fiction, and ran with both.

It strikes me as quite possible the his reputation not only precedes him, but speaks for him? Yet still a genius and pioneer?

LINK - Dr Hermann Oberth

It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from another solar system. I think that they possibly are manned by intelligent observers who are members of a race that may have been investigating our earth for centuries. I think that they possibly have been sent out to conduct systematic, long-range investigations, fir of men, animals, vegetation and more recently of atomic centers, armaments and centers of armament production.

-- Hermann Oberth

Edited by psyche101
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That's what you were for quite a while, but then you came back to UM for some reason.

invisible? you mean that i was present but not visible? i don't suppose you experienced any groper activity then.. :unsure2:

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Dr. Arthur Rudolf was another Nazi scientist who seems to have been one of these Project Paperclip types with a lot of knowledge about UFOs.

and what was it?

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Is there any indication that Oberth knew this was fact though?

It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from another solar system. I think that they possibly are manned by intelligent observers who are members of a race that may have been investigating our earth for centuries. I think that they possibly have been sent out to conduct systematic, long-range investigations, fir of men, animals, vegetation and more recently of atomic centers, armaments and centers of armament production.

-- Hermann Oberth

He said things like that many times, and so did von Braun--who was originally inspired by Oberth and regarded him as a mentor on rockets and space travel.

As for what these guys knew, they certainly talked like they knew a great deal, bit did not reveal everything to the public.

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and what was it?

Herr Doktor Rudolf groping your grandma? I doubt that would have been much fun at all.

At least, their idea of "fun" was probably very different.

f3-2.jpg

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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Personal experience. And it isn't a belief. It is a knowing. I KNOW. Belief has nothing to do with it.

As I have said before, now it is wheather you KNOW there are other beings not of this time, dimension, and this planet,... or whether you don't know that there are other beings not of this time, dimension, or planet. Belief has been left behind, into an out-dated file that is no longer pertinent nor useful.

If you really did know, you would not crack to poohs on with everyone that asks you for further information and pop them on ignore now would you?

Every single person. No matter. if they do not say "oohhhh I know" you chastise them and pop them on ignore.

What exactly does this accomplish?

Personally I think you look pretty silly saying the same thing over and again wothout any reason at all to believe you are not more than any average UFO nut, like the lady who claims to have been raped by aliens and sometimes sees her Reptillian son in Reno (true story folks). Are you any different from that example?

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He said things like that many times, and so did von Braun--who was originally inspired by Oberth and regarded him as a mentor on rockets and space travel.

As for what these guys knew, they certainly talked like they knew a great deal, bit did not reveal everything to the public.

Carol Rosin, a Disclosure Project witness claims to be on a mission for von Braun.

Here's a link to her DP testimony and a link to an anti-weaponization site she has going with Edgar Mitchell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiaZL2LLKXE&feature=fvst

http://www.peaceinspace.com/dr-astronaut-edgar-mitchell

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As for what these guys knew, they certainly talked like they knew a great deal, bit did not reveal everything to the public.

as usual... i'm not surprised i.e. i will treat that as an answer to my initial question... re your other response, it's best to leave it unanswered...

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Fair enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he came to ET conclusions from his sighting. It certainly was an incredible thing to see.

Actually, he thought it was very much terrestrial, end begged the government to consider more than defence.

arnold_gram.jpg

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as usual... i'm not surprised i.e. i will treat that as an answer to my initial question... re your other response, it's best to leave it unanswered...

Dr. Rudolf was just not a nice person at all, since he was the head Gestapo man in change of the Dora-Mittelbau underground factory, which he helped rebuilt in the US when he was brought over here. He frequently killed, tortured, and beat up the slave laborers in the factory and at least 20,000 of them died. SS Major von Braun was doing the same things, and we even know of one case where he had 20 prisoners hanged because he suspected them of "sabotage".

Well, that's old business, but interestingly it laid both of them open to blackmail attempts by various intelligence services who knew their real record.

Rudolf was still very much a Nazi and widely disliked by Germans and Americans both, particularly because of his very authoritarian managerial style. He worked on many things during his career, including various types of weapons that could be used in space and (allegedly) crashed UFOs and alien technology.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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Actually, he thought it was very much terrestrial, end begged the government to consider more than defence.

Except when he said something different about them, especially when the military repeatedly denied that the saucers were theirs or even that they had any idea what they were.

Certainly Gen. Twining and friends claimed that they weren't any secret projects of ours, although perhaps such things might be developed in time with a very intensive and expensive effort,

Did such an effort take place? Yes, we know they were working on their own flying saucers, even if they weren't nearly as good as the originals.

Edited by TheMacGuffin
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Didnt Wernher von Braun say that they had outside help when building all of there weaponry and rockets and things.??

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The question is, though, there was only one prototype that was sent to the U.S., and it seems far from certain whether it was in fact actually flown, or whether it was just inspected and Northrop used it as a basis for their flying wing designs. Arnold reported seeing nine Unusual objects, don't forget. I find the idea of a formation team of experimental aircraft slightly unlikely. And if it was the Northrops, would they have gone all the way to Mount Rainier, which is a tidy way from their base in California? And, as a further qation to that, why was it never seen in the USAF inventory, if it seemed to be flying quite well when they were evaluating it in '47? That's always the problem with the 'experimental aircraft' theory; they never seem to lead to anything, despite the apparent fact that they seemed to work well enough. Apart from well known prototypes like the Northrop flying wings, these kind of designs have never really got anywhere. If all the prototypes and experimental designs that have been tried out by the US Forces (and every other nation, including Russia now) have been documented in very many magazines, boooks and websites etc, why has there never been any sign of anything like this beyond the Northrop prototypes? Unless one does believe that there's been a whole secret Air Force that's managed to be kept totally secret for 60 years or more. And I really don't think that is possible.

Not following where you are going with this.

Do you think it is more likely that an alien civilisation also came up with the exact same design and crossed space within it, or transported it here, to explore the earth with it? Or do you have another scenario in mind?

Does it not seem astoundingly co-incidental that Arnold's drawing is so amazingly similar to the prototypes?

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