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sean6

U.S. and Israel 'considering joint air strke

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Posted (edited)

U.S. and Israel 'considering joint aerial strike' against Iran's nuclear facilities using bombers and drones

America and Israel are considering a joint surgical strike on Iran's nuclear facilities, it was claimed today.

Foreign Policy magazine reported a source 'close to the discussions' and said the strike might compose primarily of bombers and drone support.

The suggested attack is expected to last no more than a few days - or even just 'a couple of hours', the magazine said.

Such a strike could be carried out without civilian casualties, and would set back the Iranian nuclear program by back many years.

Benefits of such a strike would be regional, Foreign Policy says.

http://www.dailymail...mef=Eddie+Wrenn

http://www.jpost.com....aspx?id=287148

the question is what will china and russia do?? will is start ww3 ???

Edited by sean6

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The source, said to be in favour of the strike, said the Israel-led assault would be 'transformative' and would end up 'saving Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, reanimating the peace process, securing the (Persian) Gulf, sending an unequivocal message to Russia and China, and assuring American ascendancy in the region for a decade to come.'

I thought this was serious until I read that.

This is just some neo-con's wet dream. What a total fantasy, I doubt even Mitt Romney could spout such crap without laughing.

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I thought this was serious until I read that.

This is just some neo-con's wet dream. What a total fantasy, I doubt even Mitt Romney could spout such crap without laughing.

It is pretty far fetched. Israel will never attack Iran without the US backing it. :w00t:

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The US won't back Israel to bomb Iran - not in the pulic eye anyways :tsu:

The reasons should be obvious - black and sticky !

TiP.

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i don't know..... if you can't believe "a source 'close to the discussions' " .. who can you believe?

It seems like we are being conditioned to accept the inevitable ? It will be like, Oh ya, i'm not surprised, THEY'VE been talking about it for years. I hope i'm wrong though.

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It is pretty far fetched. Israel will never attack Iran without the US backing it. :w00t:

It's total fantasy. The idea that starting a war with Iran would actually 'stabilise' the middle east is laughable right wing propaganda.

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It's total fantasy. The idea that starting a war with Iran would actually 'stabilise' the middle east is laughable right wing propaganda.

I agree. Starting a war anywhere is apt to destabilize an area. On the other hand if the stability that everyone is craving is at the cost of Israel being annihilated, well, they may just have a vote that has to be reckoned with also.
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If Romney is elected I think you can count on a war with Iran. He has already told the Israeli's that they have our backing on whatever they wanted to do regarding Iran. I'm hoping he was lying that time.

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I agree. Starting a war anywhere is apt to destabilize an area. On the other hand if the stability that everyone is craving is at the cost of Israel being annihilated, well, they may just have a vote that has to be reckoned with also.

Israel is the child of the west and the west won't let Israel be destroyed.

There is a big difference between merely not backing Israeli warmongering and expansionism and bringing them to heel somewhat, or allowing Israel to be 'annihilated'.

Israel's survival isn't in question IMO.

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Israel is the child of the west and the west won't let Israel be destroyed.

There is a big difference between merely not backing Israeli warmongering and expansionism and bringing them to heel somewhat, or allowing Israel to be 'annihilated'.

Israel's survival isn't in question IMO.

This is an interesting take. Seriously, how would you go about "bringing them to heel"? And if you happened to be incorrect in your judgment and their enemies began attacking them in that subdued state, how do you think the West should/would respond?

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This is an interesting take. Seriously, how would you go about "bringing them to heel"? And if you happened to be incorrect in your judgment and their enemies began attacking them in that subdued state, how do you think the West should/would respond?

You use the same methods you would with any rogue state.

Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself against attack and a 'subdued' Israel would be a very positive step towards peace.

Edited by Atlantia

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You use the same methods you would with any rogue state.

Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself against attack and a 'subdued' Israel would be a very positive step towards peace.

So you feel that Israel could handle a situation where most or all of her enemies decided to attack? Actually I agree with this, I just don't think the world is ready for how she would respond. You did not answer the question though so I will restate it. If the government of Israel became more flexible to an agreement that the Palestinians could live with and signed an agreement with them and they STILL kept lobbing rockets and missiles from their newly acquired territory as they did in Gaza...how do you think the world should respond?

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If this article had any actual standing (daily mail has none) I don't think America could even afford to fly over to Iran... They are, after all, still in couple trillion dollar debt. If they wanted to start another war, it'll be the end of an economically stable America.

(But, on the plus side, it'll be reaaaaaalllly cheap to import things!)

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So you feel that Israel could handle a situation where most or all of her enemies decided to attack? Actually I agree with this, I just don't think the world is ready for how she would respond. You did not answer the question though so I will restate it. If the government of Israel became more flexible to an agreement that the Palestinians could live with and signed an agreement with them and they STILL kept lobbing rockets and missiles from their newly acquired territory as they did in Gaza...how do you think the world should respond?

NO, that's not restating the question, that's actually asking a more detailed question.

So that's something I can answer in more detail.

"If the government of Israel became more flexible to an agreement that the Palestinians could live with and signed an agreement with them"

The result would be a 'peace' that needed to be properly implimented and enforced by both sides.

If the agreement was as you suggest something that the majority of both sides could 'live with' then the stumbling block would be the minority of extremists on both sides who'se hearts are set on conflct.

I have no doubt that there would be more terrorism from both of these 'factions' in an attempt to destroy the peace. But the majorities on both sides would need to see these criminals for what they are and deal with them accordingly.

I can't see a credible scenario where multiple countries attack Israel.

Unless you mean that Israel follows up on it's terrorism against Iran with a military attack and in the ensuing escalation other nations are drawn in?

Even then the USA would never allow the occupation or Invasion of Israel (proper) and as Israel has shown time and again, it only needs one ally to flip the finger to international law and be the biggest bully in the playground.

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NO, that's not restating the question, that's actually asking a more detailed question.

So that's something I can answer in more detail.

"If the government of Israel became more flexible to an agreement that the Palestinians could live with and signed an agreement with them"

The result would be a 'peace' that needed to be properly implimented and enforced by both sides.

If the agreement was as you suggest something that the majority of both sides could 'live with' then the stumbling block would be the minority of extremists on both sides who'se hearts are set on conflct.

I have no doubt that there would be more terrorism from both of these 'factions' in an attempt to destroy the peace. But the majorities on both sides would need to see these criminals for what they are and deal with them accordingly.

I can't see a credible scenario where multiple countries attack Israel.

Unless you mean that Israel follows up on it's terrorism against Iran with a military attack and in the ensuing escalation other nations are drawn in?

Even then the USA would never allow the occupation or Invasion of Israel (proper) and as Israel has shown time and again, it only needs one ally to flip the finger to international law and be the biggest bully in the playground.

Then I think you have a lack of imagination. Israel literally had no sooner evacuated the settlers from Gaza when rockets began falling miles deeper into Israel. This is, in fact, the primary reason for the blockade of Gaza. Had the Palestinians just started building businesses and engaging in commerce in the region the only wars would have been potentially trade wars. No matter what misdirection you try the problem always gets back to aggression by Palis against Jews - calling for more retaliation - ad nauseum. It gives the zealots on the Jewish side cover to grab more land.

Has it ever occurred to you that the leaders in Israel just possibly could be correct in their appraisal of Iranian intentions? And if not, why are you so confident of that stance? Because if you and the rest of those who believe as you do are wrong and Israel is faced with defending itself against a nuclear power - the whole damned world might just get lit up. Kind of a high cost for Iranian electricity generation, no?

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Then I think you have a lack of imagination. Israel literally had no sooner evacuated the settlers from Gaza when rockets began falling miles deeper into Israel. This is, in fact, the primary reason for the blockade of Gaza. Had the Palestinians just started building businesses and engaging in commerce in the region the only wars would have been potentially trade wars. No matter what misdirection you try the problem always gets back to aggression by Palis against Jews - calling for more retaliation - ad nauseum. It gives the zealots on the Jewish side cover to grab more land.

Has it ever occurred to you that the leaders in Israel just possibly could be correct in their appraisal of Iranian intentions? And if not, why are you so confident of that stance? Because if you and the rest of those who believe as you do are wrong and Israel is faced with defending itself against a nuclear power - the whole damned world might just get lit up. Kind of a high cost for Iranian electricity generation, no?

But we were talking about a peace treaty that both sides (minus the nut jobs) could 'live with'?

I would counter that if you genuinely believe that the current Israeli position can be sustained indefinately then your are completely deluded.

The longer this situation continues without resolution the stronger Islamic extremism becomes.

And the rise of Islamic extremism is not in anyones best interests.

So how many Nuclear weapons are we talking here?

Say Iran develops 'the bomb' what are they going to do with it except use it to stop Israel nuking them?

Do you even know how 'one sided' this particular "nuclear stand off" would be?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/

"By the late 1990s the U.S. Intelligence Community estimated that Israel possessed between 75-130 weapons, based on production estimates. The stockpile would certainly include warheads for mobile Jericho-1 and Jericho-2 missiles, as well as bombs for Israeli aircraft, and may include other tactical nuclear weapons of various types. Some published estimates even claimed that Israel might have as many as 400 nuclear weapons by the late 1990s. We believe these numbers are exaggerated, and that Israel's nuclear weapons inventory may include less than 100 nuclear weapons. Stockpiled plutonium could be used to build additional weapons if so decided."

So where do you think that Iran would place it's couple of first gen bombs?

Obviously knowing that Israel has got enough to destroy EVERY major city in Iran in retaliation and of course not wanting to irradiate the very land that is the cause of the dispute.

The 'Zealots' on both sides are the enemy.

What most of us want is for Israel to abide by international law and stop playing to the home-grown extremists.

Peace in the ME isn't going to be easy. It's not going to be without blood or hard decisions.

But the fearmongering isn't helping.

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But we were talking about a peace treaty that both sides (minus the nut jobs) could 'live with'?

I would counter that if you genuinely believe that the current Israeli position can be sustained indefinately then your are completely deluded.

The longer this situation continues without resolution the stronger Islamic extremism becomes.

And the rise of Islamic extremism is not in anyones best interests.

So how many Nuclear weapons are we talking here?

Say Iran develops 'the bomb' what are they going to do with it except use it to stop Israel nuking them?

Do you even know how 'one sided' this particular "nuclear stand off" would be?

http://www.fas.org/n...de/israel/nuke/

"By the late 1990s the U.S. Intelligence Community estimated that Israel possessed between 75-130 weapons, based on production estimates. The stockpile would certainly include warheads for mobile Jericho-1 and Jericho-2 missiles, as well as bombs for Israeli aircraft, and may include other tactical nuclear weapons of various types. Some published estimates even claimed that Israel might have as many as 400 nuclear weapons by the late 1990s. We believe these numbers are exaggerated, and that Israel's nuclear weapons inventory may include less than 100 nuclear weapons. Stockpiled plutonium could be used to build additional weapons if so decided."

So where do you think that Iran would place it's couple of first gen bombs?

Obviously knowing that Israel has got enough to destroy EVERY major city in Iran in retaliation and of course not wanting to irradiate the very land that is the cause of the dispute.

The 'Zealots' on both sides are the enemy.

What most of us want is for Israel to abide by international law and stop playing to the home-grown extremists.

Peace in the ME isn't going to be easy. It's not going to be without blood or hard decisions.

But the fearmongering isn't helping.

What you will not acknowledge is that it isn't just "zealots" on the Palestinian side. The Palestinians as a whole are irrevocably invested in the hatred against the Jew. They teach it to their children as early as kindergarten. There is no such analog for Israeli school children. Israelis have wanted peace for years but to achieve it they must have someone to talk with who is willing to do something other than demand all the land. The Arabs have never been willing to accept the existence of a Jewish State in their midst and I think they never will. As to the danger of an Iranian capability it is the perceived "umbrella of protection" that it will provide to the Hizballah and Hamas among others. Are you willing to trust in the rationality of someone like Nasrallah or Meshal when some action against Israel causes an overwhelming response by Israel? An attack on an Israeli patrol in 2006 in Lebanon by Nasrallah's boys led to a war that devastated southern Lebanon. Add an Iranian ally blustering about using their newfound power in defense of their proxies and the recipe is in place for making the region a really quiet neighborhood for many decades.

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Don't lie Israelis don't want peace they want homes for their greedy population

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amen nixon

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Don't lie Israelis don't want peace they want homes for their greedy population

If you think they would rather be in conflict all the time, needing bomb shelters and gas masks then I think you maybe aren't too bright young man.....

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If you think they would rather be in conflict all the time, needing bomb shelters and gas masks then I think you maybe aren't too bright young man.....

Re your previous post, that's pretty much what you think of the Palestinians.

What you will not acknowledge is that it isn't just "zealots" on the Palestinian side. The Palestinians as a whole are irrevocably invested in the hatred against the Jew. They teach it to their children as early as kindergarten. There is no such analog for Israeli school children. Israelis have wanted peace for years but to achieve it they must have someone to talk with who is willing to do something other than demand all the land. The Arabs have never been willing to accept the existence of a Jewish State in their midst and I think they never will. As to the danger of an Iranian capability it is the perceived "umbrella of protection" that it will provide to the Hizballah and Hamas among others. Are you willing to trust in the rationality of someone like Nasrallah or Meshal when some action against Israel causes an overwhelming response by Israel? An attack on an Israeli patrol in 2006 in Lebanon by Nasrallah's boys led to a war that devastated southern Lebanon. Add an Iranian ally blustering about using their newfound power in defense of their proxies and the recipe is in place for making the region a really quiet neighborhood for many decades.

There is no point in demonising either side wholey.

The Palestinians in the occupied territories of course grow up resenting the Israelis, how could they not?

A brutal occupying force opperating an apartheid system where they are very much second class citizens subject to discrimination, theft of their homes, brutal treatment if they object, AT BEST!

The point is that we have to believe that given fair treatment and a chance of peace that most would rather that than the continuation of the hell they are in.

Similarly, we have to believe that the majority of Israeli's must realise that their Nation's current position and policy is untenable in the long term.

The State of Israel needs to make some tough choices and governments can't see beyond the next term.

The best thing for Israel would be to negotiate now, from a position of strength, but to negotiate fairly and make concessions, to reign in the zealots and hard liners then support the peace as rigorously as it can. It won't be easy to begin with and there will be problems. But it is the only option that could provide Israel with long term security.

Your beliefs about Iran don't hold water for me.

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Re your previous post, that's pretty much what you think of the Palestinians.

There is no point in demonising either side wholey.

The Palestinians in the occupied territories of course grow up resenting the Israelis, how could they not?

A brutal occupying force opperating an apartheid system where they are very much second class citizens subject to discrimination, theft of their homes, brutal treatment if they object, AT BEST!

The point is that we have to believe that given fair treatment and a chance of peace that most would rather that than the continuation of the hell they are in.

Similarly, we have to believe that the majority of Israeli's must realise that their Nation's current position and policy is untenable in the long term.

The State of Israel needs to make some tough choices and governments can't see beyond the next term.

The best thing for Israel would be to negotiate now, from a position of strength, but to negotiate fairly and make concessions, to reign in the zealots and hard liners then support the peace as rigorously as it can. It won't be easy to begin with and there will be problems. But it is the only option that could provide Israel with long term security.

Your beliefs about Iran don't hold water for me.

What would you suggest? Because I've been avidly watching this dance since about 1972 and EVERY time an agreement has been attempted it has been Israel that made the "tough choices". But that aside, I still believe there will eventually be an agreement. I think Israel will give more land than they can afford to and once the Palestinians have consolidated on their gains - the attacks will start again - just as they did in Gaza and the reason I'm so confident of this is that these people teach their children hate. If you take away that motivation then all the gangsters in power in Hamas and the PA will lose their reason for existing. Believe what you like about Iran.

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What would you suggest? Because I've been avidly watching this dance since about 1972 and EVERY time an agreement has been attempted it has been Israel that made the "tough choices". But that aside, I still believe there will eventually be an agreement. I think Israel will give more land than they can afford to and once the Palestinians have consolidated on their gains - the attacks will start again - just as they did in Gaza and the reason I'm so confident of this is that these people teach their children hate. If you take away that motivation then all the gangsters in power in Hamas and the PA will lose their reason for existing. Believe what you like about Iran.

Well for a start I disagree with your seeming assumption that Israel has always dealt in good faith and been 'looking for peace' but that's not the point.

The fact of the matter is that there needs to be a solution that both sides can live with despite the vocal minority that will never be happy. Then Israel needs to invest in the peace. Rebuilding and supporting financially the two state solution, pouring in money and aid and treating these people as equals. Both sides need to work together and co-opperate to marginalise the fanatics until the old hatreds and habits of mistrust start to die out.

Both sides will need to be pro-active in controlling their own fanatics.

It will take a generation.

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Well for a start I disagree with your seeming assumption that Israel has always dealt in good faith and been 'looking for peace' but that's not the point.

The fact of the matter is that there needs to be a solution that both sides can live with despite the vocal minority that will never be happy. Then Israel needs to invest in the peace. Rebuilding and supporting financially the two state solution, pouring in money and aid and treating these people as equals. Both sides need to work together and co-opperate to marginalise the fanatics until the old hatreds and habits of mistrust start to die out.

Both sides will need to be pro-active in controlling their own fanatics.

It will take a generation.

The settlers feel the land is their's. They can be reigned in if a deal can be cut but I think the "rocket boys" are a product of the hatreds they are taught from grade school. If you have an open mind I suggest you check out the website PALWATCH.ORG. It is a listing of the instances of hate being preached in the mosques and schools. THAT is what will need to change before peace would ever have a chance. Miracles happen....

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The settlers feel the land is their's. They can be reigned in if a deal can be cut but I think the "rocket boys" are a product of the hatreds they are taught from grade school. If you have an open mind I suggest you check out the website PALWATCH.ORG. It is a listing of the instances of hate being preached in the mosques and schools. THAT is what will need to change before peace would ever have a chance. Miracles happen....

Peace will never happen if Israel bullies nations

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