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Shabd Mystic

[Merged] Proof of Heaven

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Why jgirl are you a convert? Or am I missing something from you in the last few years?

i think you're missing something because i am the same as i ever was. :)

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My thought is that there isn't another dimension per say in which 'heaven' exists. It is happening all the time right here, right now, right in front of us...but we are blind to it, completely and totally blind to it because of our 'conscious' state. It is like being in a room with several people talking at once...you are engaged in conversation and can't hear anyone else speaking because you are really hearing only yourself. When we take away the barriers of consciousness...we are able to see what is already there, that which we are blinded to by our conscious states. Does that make any sense to you?

Not sure if this quote thing will work as I haven't been on here for ages but anyhow...I can actually see where you are coming from here, in terms of the concious mind part. That's how I would describe it, I wouldn't call it heaven as I am not religious in that sense but in terms of it being in the hear and now, I would agree. Time doesn't exist "up there" anyway the same as it is down here so that would tally up.

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Not sure if this quote thing will work as I haven't been on here for ages but anyhow...I can actually see where you are coming from here, in terms of the concious mind part. That's how I would describe it, I wouldn't call it heaven as I am not religious in that sense but in terms of it being in the hear and now, I would agree. Time doesn't exist "up there" anyway the same as it is down here so that would tally up.

The doctor who is the focus of the article featured in this thread, and the audio post too, covers that very "time" issue and describes how it was nonresistant "up there."

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Lovely article .. I wonder if everybody goes to the same place "over there" and if everybody percieves the things they see in the same way ..

However, I really do believe that our real home is on the other side, and that our lives on earth are just a fieldtrip ..

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Lovely article .. I wonder if everybody goes to the same place "over there" and if everybody percieves the things they see in the same way ..

However, I really do believe that our real home is on the other side, and that our lives on earth are just a fieldtrip ..

Perhaps there are some stories of people with NDEs experiencing what religion calls Hell, but I have never heard of any. It is interesting, okay just a little, that, in the entire Old Testament, Hell is never even mentioned. Hell doesn't appear until Jesus comes on the scene. Maybe if and when we ever really 'get it right' in this lifetime...then the reality 'beyond the veil' becomes permanent.

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Perhaps there are some stories of people with NDEs experiencing what religion calls Hell, but I have never heard of any. It is interesting, okay just a little, that, in the entire Old Testament, Hell is never even mentioned. Hell doesn't appear until Jesus comes on the scene. Maybe if and when we ever really 'get it right' in this lifetime...then the reality 'beyond the veil' becomes permanent.

There are several such reports. I have many somewhere on my computer and if i get a chance I'll try to find them.

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There are several such reports. I have many somewhere on my computer and if i get a chance I'll try to find them.

Patients near death see visions of hell

By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent

HERE are several stories about that I found just now.

Over the years, various explanations have been put forward for the positive variety of NDEs, ranging from the effects of medication to the lack of oxygen reaching the brain in its final moments. Such explanations fail to explain, however, the consistency of the experience: hallucinations brought on by drugs or anoxia are typically completely random and senseless. Harder still to understand are reports of NDEs from hospital patients whose ECG traces became completely flat during resuscitation - showing that there was no activity in their brain.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The last sentence here just blows me away. It tends to lessen the argument I was making before about dead being dead. I also remember reading an article in a medical journal about a heart surgeon who, in order to perform the surgery, had to first remove every single drop of blood from the patients body. The blood was swirling around in tubes above the operation table, while the patients body was cooled down to around 54 degrees. Then when the heart was repaired, the blood was transfused back into his body. I remember thinking at the time that the old saying 'the life is in the blood' was literally true. So, in that case, we have a corpse on the table. No blood, no electrical impulses in the brain. But life swirling around in tubes overhead. How bizarre but how telling as well. It doesn't really make much difference what the brain scan says...if the 'blood' is still alive then life continues. The point here being that dead isn't dead until the blood dies...but the veil is opened to our viewing when the brain is deprived of the oxygen of the living blood.

Edited by joc

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Perhaps there are some stories of people with NDEs experiencing what religion calls Hell, but I have never heard of any. It is interesting, okay just a little, that, in the entire Old Testament, Hell is never even mentioned. Hell doesn't appear until Jesus comes on the scene. Maybe if and when we ever really 'get it right' in this lifetime...then the reality 'beyond the veil' becomes permanent.

I've read some books about life after death and NDE, and people say that there is no such thing as hell. I think so too. I believe it's all just religious propaganda.

In fact, the books I've read said people who had such experiences never even saw some kind of religious person on the other side, no matter what their beliefs were.

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Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon who claims to have visited the afterlife

Dr. Eben Alexander has taught at Harvard Medical School and has earned a strong reputation as a neurosurgeon. And while Alexander says he's long called himself a Christian, he never held deeply religious beliefs or a pronounced faith in the afterlife............................

lhttp://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/heaven-real-says-neurosurgeon-claims-visited-afterlife-213527063.html

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Repeat of two threads that were already merged.

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Merged with existing thread

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I found this:

This poetic interpretation of his experience is not supported by evidence of any kind. As you correctly point out, coma does not equate to “inactivation of the cerebral cortex” or “higher-order brain functions totally offline” or “neurons of [my] cortex stunned into complete inactivity”. These describe brain death, a one hundred percent lethal condition. There are many excellent scholarly articles that discuss the definitions of coma.

We are not privy to his EEG records, but high alpha activity is common in coma. Also common is “flat” EEG. The EEG can appear flat even in the presence of high activity, when that activity is not synchronous. For example, the EEG flattens in regions involved in direct task processing. This phenomenon is known as event-related desynchronization (hundreds of references).

As is obvious to you, this is truth by authority. Neurosurgeons, however, are rarely well-trained in brain function. Dr. Alexander cuts brains; he does not appear to study them. “There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind—my conscious, inner self—was alive and well. While the neurons of my cortex were stunned to complete inactivity by the bacteria that had attacked them, my brain-free consciousness ...” True, science cannot explain brain-free consciousness. Of course, science cannot explain consciousness anyway. In this case, however, it would be parsimonious to reject the whole idea of consciousness in the absence of brain activity. Either his brain was active when he had these dreams, or they are a confabulation of whatever took place in his state of minimally conscious coma.

There are many reports of people remembering dream-like states while in medical coma. They lack consistency, of course, but there is nothing particularly unique in Dr. Alexander’s unfortunate episode.

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Here is a one-hour television special on near-death experiences. It answers the discussion held earler about the definition of "death" and says the patients in one study were cardiac failures, all of whom had been "clinically dead."

BBC - The Day I Died

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Here is a one-hour television special on near-death experiences. It answers the discussion held earler about the definition of "death" and says the patients in one study were cardiac failures, all of whom had been "clinically dead."

BBC - The Day I Died

I began watching the video, but alas, I am called away once more...I didn't get far but this statement intrigues me:

Paraphrasing: We use to think the brain was the producer of the mind...but now we are thinking, perhaps, the brain is a reciever..not a producer.

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I began watching the video, but alas, I am called away once more...I didn't get far but this statement intrigues me:

Paraphrasing: We use to think the brain was the producer of the mind...but now we are thinking, perhaps, the brain is a reciever..not a producer.

the actual quote ver batum is:

...till now the concept was that the brian is the producer of consciousness and the producer of memories, and, when you study near death experiences, you have to say, Well we have to reconsider this concept, that perhaps we should consider the brain not as a producer but as a receiver of conciousness...

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Lovely article .. I wonder if everybody goes to the same place "over there" and if everybody percieves the things they see in the same way ..

However, I really do believe that our real home is on the other side, and that our lives on earth are just a fieldtrip ..

Huh, if that's the case, I'm having a word or two with my folks when I get back home about signing permission slips willy nilly :w00t:

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Hi LibstaK,

You had better have a word to your government then, a lot of mystical societies tend to think of Sirius and Alnilam as heaven, and indeed Australia's Federation Day of 1st January 1901 in Sydney was aligned to Sirius and Alnilam!

http://www.abc.net.au/federation/fedstory/fedday/events/fev_inaug.htm

Love the Australian Coin below ha ha:-

http://www.australianstamp.com/Coin-web/aust/bulldec/silver/200131oz.htm

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Here is a one-hour television special on near-death experiences. It answers the discussion held earler about the definition of "death" and says the patients in one study were cardiac failures, all of whom had been "clinically dead."

BBC - The Day I Died

i watched this last night and found it very interesting; especially the woman who was clinically dead and yet could recall some procedures and conversation in the operating room even though she had no brain wave or heart beat.

i would have liked to hear more from her about her experience.

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i think you're missing something because i am the same as i ever was. :)

Ahhhh but there is something softer about you. Come on any changes at all? :)

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If heaven was a proven place, I would bet my left nut that the suicide rate would be extremely high...Hospital visits would go down ( if I were bleeding out at a car accident I would say let me go ) thus our health insurance rates would really drop.

Being a person whom is not sure what to have faith in ( leaning towards Budhism more then anything ) a certain God, I do hope there is something out there.

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Ahhhh but there is something softer about you. Come on any changes at all? :)

old age, that's about it haha

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If heaven was a proven place, I would bet my left nut that the suicide rate would be extremely high...Hospital visits would go down ( if I were bleeding out at a car accident I would say let me go ) thus our health insurance rates would really drop.

Being a person whom is not sure what to have faith in ( leaning towards Budhism more then anything ) a certain God, I do hope there is something out there.

There are a couple books out that studied near-death experiences of suicide attempts and the vast majority experience a hellish NDE.

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i find NDE'S about people going to heavan and meeting god or some other supreme all knowing being very hard to believe. but when hear about NDE'S where the person is standing outside of there body looking at themselves, thats a hell of a lot more believable. but i think thats because i dont believe in heaven and hell or god's of any kind. i myself believe in reincarnation.

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i find NDE'S about people going to heavan and meeting god or some other supreme all knowing being very hard to believe. but when hear about NDE'S where the person is standing outside of there body looking at themselves, thats a hell of a lot more believable. but i think thats because i dont believe in heaven and hell or god's of any kind. i myself believe in reincarnation.

I agree about reincarnation as I am 100% convinced of that, but it is hard to believe, next to impossible if you examine it very closely, that our "selves" and therefore our consciousness, lives on past our earthly death without some sort of "higher" source of our existence.

I absolutely do not believe in God as portrayed by Christians and Muslims, as some sort of bearded old "man" but I absolutely believe in a higher power who is indescribable and beyond human comprehension.

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.

A Gallup poll found that at least 13 million Americans have had a near-death experience. Of these, the data suggests that 17.7% of these are LTP experiences that are distressing and sometimes frightening.

Dr. Barbara Rommer classified LTP near-death experiences into four types. Here is a definition of the four types:

# 1 Those NDEs that are misinterpreted positive NDEs. # 2

Those NDEs involving the eternal void that can often be very unpleasant. # 3 Those hellish NDEs where the experiencers see visions of hell. # 4 Those NDEs that involve frightening life reviews.

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