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Still Waters

Germany will allow circumcision

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The German government has backed new legislation aimed at ending a legal dispute over the religious tradition of circumcision.

The cabinet has announced support for proposals that would explicitly allow the practice.

Earlier this year, a regional court ruled that circumcision of newborn boys amounted to assault, prompting protests from Jewish and Muslim organisations.

It also raised fears among some of a resurgence in anti-Semitism in Germany.

The new law will make circumcision explicitly legal, as long as it is carried out by trained experts, and parents are informed of any medical risks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-19894109

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What a shame. Legalised assault on children.

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The way to change this is with culture, not legislation.

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The way to change this is with culture, not legislation.

The problem is that there are two cultures who somehow have this idea that less than a square inch of skin has some kind of spiritual meaning.

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It is cultural and not religious for many. In the 50's, 60's and 70's it is estimated that 77 to 98% were circumcised. It was a time when most people didn't question their doctors. Often, after labor, the doctor would casually say," Of course you want him circumcised." and the parents would just nod and that was it. There was no religious connotation at all.

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I don't really get circumcision - unless for medical reasons.

I remember reading that young Egyptian priests had to circumcise themselves. No idea if this is true, I just wanted to put that image/pain out there.

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I don't really get circumcision - unless for medical reasons.

I remember reading that young Egyptian priests had to circumcise themselves. No idea if this is true, I just wanted to put that image/pain out there.

It is a pretty common African ancestral ritual, so yes, it also effected ancient Egyptians.

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The problem is that there are two cultures who somehow have this idea that less than a square inch of skin has some kind of spiritual meaning.

Who are you to say it doesn't?

A law is not going to change the way people feel and think about it, only a shift in culture will do this, and the numbers tell us that, at least here in the US, that cultural shift is happening. Make a law, and you will cause a backlash and accomplish nothing.

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The furthest I think a law like this should go is to make it illegal for anyone below the age of 13-16 to get circumcised. Make parents wait until the person being snipped is old enough to decide for themselves before allowing a permanent operation to take place.

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So....no more meat missles in Germany?

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I can sort of understand why Germany doesn't want to be the country that brings in legistlation that bans a Jewish tradition.

So others need to lead on this I think.

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I can sort of understand why Germany doesn't want to be the country that brings in legistlation that bans a Jewish tradition.

So others need to lead on this I think.

Since MILLIONS of these procedures have been performed over the centuries, some in very primitive circumstances, if there were long term health problems would they not be known? So the question becomes - whose right is it to suddenly deny anyone their heritage and traditions? Why is it suddenly so important?

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You say that as if there are no possible complications during or after a circumcision, which is not the case at all.

Edited by FLOMBIE

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You say that as if there are no possible complications during or after a circumcision, which is not the case at all.

Actually, I said no such thing, Flombie. I said if there were long term health problems would they not be known? But, okay, maybe you can cite the studies showing how such procedures negatively affect the health of those who undergo them? Vaccinations and dental procedures change a child's body for life as well..should we wait and let the child make those decisions? I submit that the issue is cultural superiority at best and anti Semitism at worst.

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Since MILLIONS of these procedures have been performed over the centuries, some in very primitive circumstances, if there were long term health problems would they not be known? So the question becomes - whose right is it to suddenly deny anyone their heritage and traditions? Why is it suddenly so important?

In my opinion it is a childs right to not be mutilated or surgically altered to suit the whim of it's parents religious 'traditions'.

Why are childrens rights 'suddenly so important'?

That would be progress.

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Actually, I said no such thing, Flombie. I said if there were long term health problems would they not be known? But, okay, maybe you can cite the studies showing how such procedures negatively affect the health of those who undergo them? Vaccinations and dental procedures change a child's body for life as well..should we wait and let the child make those decisions? I submit that the issue is cultural superiority at best and anti Semitism at worst.

To say that opposition to cicumcision is anti-semitism is completely unfair.

It is anti child abuse. Are you not in favour of protecting children from unnecessary painful surgical alterations?

How is this in any way comparable to mass vaccination programmes that have saved millions of lives?

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this is pretty simple really there is no excuse for mutilating a child .it doesnt matter about heritage,religion or perceived health consequences of not removing a body part (after all if we removed legs kids could never break a leg) .

it is assault of a child and is wrong to think otherwise is moronic.

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You people are so biased its rediculous to even read what is being said. There are health benefits and complications are so rare that the benefits outweigh the complications. Look instead of bashing people and calling it mutilation just say I choose not to and others choose to. We each have our own ideas about what is right for us. So quit the hate because its getting old. Your all better than that.

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You people are so biased its rediculous to even read what is being said. There are health benefits and complications are so rare that the benefits outweigh the complications. Look instead of bashing people and calling it mutilation just say I choose not to and others choose to. We each have our own ideas about what is right for us. So quit the hate because its getting old. Your all better than that.

am i biased against assaulting small children? hell yes i am and i am proud to be religion or tradition has no place in altering a humans body forever .

if people want to get it done as adults i have no problem with that but removing a childs body part because an adult wants to is wrong .

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You people are so biased its rediculous to even read what is being said. There are health benefits and complications are so rare that the benefits outweigh the complications. Look instead of bashing people and calling it mutilation just say I choose not to and others choose to. We each have our own ideas about what is right for us. So quit the hate because its getting old. Your all better than that.

Oh do grow the F up.

If there were significant health benefits it would have been adopted worldwide as a standard procedure among all industrailised countries or we would have evolved to be 'foreskinless' as a species. Playing the 'hater card' is what's old here, try and be an adult.

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am i biased against assaulting small children? hell yes i am and i am proud to be religion or tradition has no place in altering a humans body forever .

if people want to get it done as adults i have no problem with that but removing a childs body part because an adult wants to is wrong .

:tu:

Too fracking right mate!

Edited by Atlantia

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Didn't think you guys could step up. Thought I'd try though. Very disappointing but I respect your personal decision.

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In my opinion it is a childs right to not be mutilated or surgically altered to suit the whim of it's parents religious 'traditions'.

Why are childrens rights 'suddenly so important'?

That would be progress.

Then don't have your child circumsized. It's arrogant to try to impose your opinions of right and wrong on others. How dare you attempt to tell another person that their belief system is wrong - unless of course they are attempting to kill you because of it....
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You guys are already pretty set in your beliefs so I know you likely wont read these links but here you go anyways. I wish you all well.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2012/08/sorry-intactivists-aap-recommends-circumcision.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/08/27/new-circumcision-guidelin_n_1826069.html

These articles address both sides so I hope it will be read if at all with a clear perspective. Please refrain from bashing people though we are better than that.

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