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andes_wolf

Thor in south pacific

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Maori oral traditions clearly state that, upon arrival in New Zealand, Maori found that there was a large, well-established population already living in the country. The inhabitants were described as having skin complexion that was white to light-ruddy, with eye colours from blue to green to darker tints. Their hair colours ranged from white and dull-golden, with red being predominant in the general population. There were also shades of brown through to black and braided samples of this multi-coloured hair (taken from the Waitakere rock shelters) used to be on display at Auckland War Memorial Museum.

SuttonHooTikiBuckle.jpg

In physical stature most groups were about the same height as Maori, but there was one widely dispersed group described as being considerably smaller (white pygmies) with fine, childlike features, white-golden hair and large watery blue-green eyes. Around Port Waikato and distributed up the West Coast beyond the Hokianga Harbour to Mitimiti was yet another group who were very tall, achieving an average adult height of around 7-feet. Since early colonial times the skeletal remains of these people have been continuously observed as trussed, sitting position burials in coastal sand dunes or laid-out horizontally in caves.

Maori used umbrella terms like Patu-paiarehe, Turehu and Pakepakeha as names for these earlier inhabitants, but each Maori tribe developed their own regional names, such as Ngati Kura, Ngati Korakorako and Ngati Turehu for the Patu-paiarehe tribes in the Rotorua lakes district of the central North Island. The last, intact surviving tribe was the Ngati Hotu who lived in Hawkes Bay district and later around Lake Taupo, until their defeat in the Battle of the Five Forts.

The Maori term, Pakeha, later used to describe white colonial Europeans, was derived from the ancient name Pakepakeha used to describe the former white population. Pocket groups of these first inhabitants survived into the 20th century and are well-remembered by old-timers as the red headed, freckle-faced Maoris or waka blond[/i]

New Zealanders will immediately recognize facial features shown in this stylized belt buckle from Sutton Hoo, in England as very similar to what is seen in Maori carving. A Scandinavian ship burial was also excavated in the same location English. In the above artifact of a "top hat" is described above in "Tiki type" face. The top hat or representations forehead extended "Tiki" figurines is very prevalent in Oceania or Egypt, but slightly less common in New Zealand.

Maori oral traditions tell us that the Patu-paiarehe or people Turehu taught many Maori arts and crafts. These included fishnet making, weaving, haka (dance), art tattoo (moko), stick games, puzzle games of strings, flute playing putorino, sculpture, etc. At one point, after the Maori warriors hostile attacked these people, then enslaved and cannibalized them to virtual extinction. During this period many unfortunate Patu-paiarehe fled into the inhospitable country and resistant to high survival and later became known as "The Children of the Mist." Around the Auckland Isthmus that subsisted in Coromandel, Hunua and Waitakere high country forests. They hid in large cave systems around Port Waikato and lived for many generations in the mountain regions of northern Pirongia.Nas living in Waipoua Forest wide, the Range Waima or country around Pangaru and robust range Maungataniwha. Further south were in the Urewera ranges, Mount Ngongataha in the central volcanic or, later, to the southwest of Lake Taupo in the vast rugged wilderness around Atene above the Wanganui River. In the South Island, who were living in the hills around Lyttelton Harbour, Akaroa and Takitimu range as well as in the mountainous region between the Arahura River and Lake Brunner, etc.

Entire villages, totem poles, canoes, greenstone treasures, musical instruments, boxes carved feathers and all possessions of the previous people fell into the hands of the conquerors as Maori or awards the spoils of war (plunder muru). Patu-paiarehe arts, crafts, or all of the hidden treasures not in swamps or buried for later retrieval, then, became the objects associated with Maori culture and symbolism. However, the true lineage of these ancient religious or cultural expressions date back to the countries from which the distant ancestors of the Patu-paiarehe came.

It seems obvious that some ancient groups came to New Zealand directly from Continental Europe start to the season, as evidenced by the types of household structures and astronomical stone found in the landscape of New Zealand (including many villages hovel home hive dome, now reduced to heaps of stone ). Others came more directly from the former homelands European base in the eastern Mediterranean, through Central America and South America and Easter Island route and bringing a lot of them flora of that region. Because Europeans shared much of the same old heritage expressed through common standards of measurement, religious beliefs, cultural idiosyncrasies, writing, cutting, motives and symbolism, language, plinn rhythms, dance, musical instruments, astronomical science / navigation, etc. Many cultural items tend to mix and confuse in a related expression of several continents.

The strong religious and cultural beliefs, which led to the creation of carved greenstone Hei-Tiki ornaments or pendants Maori culture and more generally worn by women, are traceable to Europe and the Mediterranean, with its, Pantheon Shared gods. Recognizable forms of Hei-Tiki are also found in Peru, Mexico, Palestine, Egypt and South. The New Zealand Hei-Tiki pendant and totems squat wooden or stone showing the same design attributes are a local version of Bes, the Egyptian god of the South of pregnant mothers, children and the home. When ancient Caucasian tribes left Egypt and its satellite cities to the desert and migrated to invade the territory of Green Europa or elsewhere, took their religious and cultural concepts with them. Bes peers and slightly variable in many lands was a much loved, hairy and ugly, bowlegged little artist-patron god statues or murals found in scattered from Egypt to New Zealand ... Bes / Pan / Puck / Tiki / Rongo.

He was Puca in Old English, Old Norse Puki in, Puke in Swedish, Danish Puge, PUK in Low German, Latvian and Lithuanian Pukis. The Greeks pre-Christians represented as a set of pipes, fun-loving, mischievous little dwarf sator god, associated with fertility. Whether the Greek Pan or Puck of Britain (aka Robin Goodfellow), kept many attributes dwarf god Bes Egypt. In Egypt, he protected mothers and children of snakes, scorpions and lions and was often depicted as holding a snake in his left hand and a short sword knife in his right hand raised. Some representations European Puck show the snake in his left hand. Much later the Christians of Rome denounced the all-too-popular little Greek shepherd god-sator and represented it as the devil (Satan), thereby destroying the high esteem and adoration previously vested in him by the common people.

BesLineup.jpg

http://www.celticnz....Bes&Taranis.htm

Edited by andes_wolf
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Ironically, your text other than the thread's subject...didn't mention the word "Thor" at all.

Edited by WoIverine
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Thankyou for nteresting information. Have been reading a similar theori only with the viking connection to new zealand by a norwegian historian. As the art and culture of the celts and the vikings are/were basicly the same. Both celtic and vikings used tattoos, as did the new zelanders..They also built wood houses in a special techniuqe used by the vikings also. Also the facial features look very european on some of them. On these old photoes all are 100% indicious new zeelanders.

http://www.sydhav.no...new_zealand.htm (in norwegian)

maori_mann.jpgmaori_norsk.jpg

maori_kvinne.jpgmaori_norsk_kvinne.jpg

Edited by whitegandalf

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The only Thor I've heard of in the South Pacific is Thor Heyerdahl.

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I think that representation in carving of the human form is a concept universal within every culture on the planet and makes interesting study, as it can serve to link the ties that may bind us together. In the absence of the genealogies associated with these artefacts, one has to be careful not to be caught in a river of wishful thinking that carries us ever further from the origins of truth.

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I,m half maori and know nothing of the history. Mother was Aussie and raised us like she was raised,

she use to call father a heathen cannibal but he has reddish brown hair. Thank you, this is fantastic

and I can,t wait to tell dad.

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Well the Viking were great explorers. It is possible the Viking sailed that far.

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I think that representation in carving of the human form is a concept universal within every culture on the planet and makes interesting study, as it can serve to link the ties that may bind us together. In the absence of the genealogies associated with these artefacts, one has to be careful not to be caught in a river of wishful thinking that carries us ever further from the origins of truth.

Exactly. Like when people invented fire, spears, religion, animal domestication, gardening..... These things happened everywhere regardless of the contact with other civilizations/societies. Humans simply will invent the same stuff given a chance.

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On day Thor, god of thunder, decided he had lived on Mt. Olympus without the company of a human woman for too long.

So he transformed himself into the likeness of a modern man and came down from Mt. Olympus and went out to a club.

He met and seduced a young lady there and accompanied her back to her apartment, where he made love to her over and over again all night.

In the morning, the young lady awoke and gazed into his eyes, and said "Last night was amazing, the most amazing night of my life. I "achieved climax" over and over again, I think I'm in love with you."

Thor, feeling guilty, tried to speak frankly to the young lady. He said "Then you must know something. I am really THOR."

She said "You think YOU'RE thor, I'm so thor I can barely walk to the bathroom."

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The historian connects the norwgian viking gange rolv (walking), ak rollo from normandie to new zeeland. He was the chief of an important and powerfull viking clan but was kicked out and banned from Norway after several plunder and killings. He was a huge giant and to large to ride a horse, so he always walked, therefor the name. He founded a colony in france, Normandie. His descendents later suksessfully conquered whole of England in 1066.. Todays english royal line comes from him.

While he was out sailing, banned from his homeland, he is said to have visited far away places. I think he was out sailing for 20 years straight.

New zeeland myths tells of a giant that visited them. His name was Lono.

The new zelanders must either have invented tatooing by them self, or learned it from distant visitors. Because none of the other islands there do it. The wood building teqnuiqe houses on legs is also not shared by their neighbours. Who rather build straw huts.

I think it is worth reseaching.

Edited by whitegandalf

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Thankyou for nteresting information. Have been reading a similar theori only with the viking connection to new zealand by a norwegian historian. As the art and culture of the celts and the vikings are/were basicly the same. Both celtic and vikings used tattoos, as did the new zelanders..They also built wood houses in a special techniuqe used by the vikings also. Also the facial features look very european on some of them. On these old photoes all are 100% indicious new zeelanders.

http://www.sydhav.no...new_zealand.htm (in norwegian)

maori_mann.jpgmaori_norsk.jpg

maori_kvinne.jpgmaori_norsk_kvinne.jpg

Couple things:

How many vikings would it take to make a big difference in the way the natives look?

Those pictures cannot be more than a hundred years old. It's possible they're parents or grandparents bred with others more recently than the vikings.

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In their own stories, like the wataka tribe they tell of a white tall people with red and blond hair, who lived there before they did. They were seperate tribes and called Patupaiarehe, Turehu and Ngati Hotu. They supposed to came in boats from peru.

This would be the fastest route from the nearest known viking outpost new foundland canada. They probably went down to the gulf and panama and beyond too acording to their own stories and pure logic., although no evidence excist today. it is a easy sail. The viking boat was a superior fast vessel and even the fastest racing sailboats today cant outsail them. Its was so light (can be liftet and carried/dragged over land) and have air riffles that makes it go high in the water, almost flying and a perfekt aerodynamic form. They also had dried fish, storable high energy food so they could sail continious for months and years. Their length of their coastline was around 8 times around the world on the widest, with adding of their trading and plunder routes you can easily double it. These were their highways and they were the true kings of the sea. They coud easily have dropped by new zeeland.

Then they startet hunting and killing the white people who was a lot fewer than them. But some of the beautiful white women was kept alive for conqubines for the chiefs of the maori tribes. As this position is inheritable in maori tradition their european trademarks could have survived even with few in numbers.

Not sure of the age of the pictures but is said to be very old and of the indignious population.

Our own explorers like kaptain Cook explored new zeeland from 1769 and they reported of tall white people amoungst the local population.

Edited by whitegandalf

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any physical evidence for any of these theories?

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Evidence is much. There are plenty of signs that point in that direction. White people, their own stories, the viking stories, same art and patterns, same houses, same tattoos, same offering pitts, so on.. But 100% bulletproof evidence we have not.

There are not much will to find out the truth in new zeeland either. Not much digging and archeology. The maori are very satisfied with todays official story, that they were the first to arrive on the island. They are supposily scared of loosing the money they get from the state.

Edited by whitegandalf

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In their own stories, like the wataka tribe they tell of a white tall people with red and blond hair, who lived there before they did. They were seperate tribes and called Patupaiarehe, Turehu and Ngati Hotu. They supposed to came in boats from peru.

This would be the fastest route from the nearest known viking outpost new foundland canada. They probably went down to the gulf and panama and beyond too acording to their own stories and pure logic., although no evidence excist today. it is a easy sail. The viking boat was a superior fast vessel and even the fastest racing sailboats today cant outsail them. Its was so light (can be liftet and carried/dragged over land) and have air riffles that makes it go high in the water, almost flying and a perfekt aerodynamic form. They also had dried fish, storable high energy food so they could sail continious for months and years. Their length of their coastline was around 8 times around the world on the widest, with adding of their trading and plunder routes you can easily double it. These were their highways and they were the true kings of the sea. They coud easily have dropped by new zeeland.

I have to cchallange the bolded items. Can you provide links?

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Under certain condition it can go faster than modern race yacht, 1. It can sail straight ahead, when a modern sailboat has to sig sag route. 2. When little or no wind or against wind, they can still have a fast pace because of alot of strong oars. So overall over a distance in a known race from europe to america the viking ship did loose, but only by 30 minutes or so. II wil try to find a link for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longship

Dry fish can be stored for years, thats what they used as food on their sea voyages. The only other thing they had to store was water. Their largest ships was 50meters, 150feet long and they often travelled in large groups of 10-30 ships. They did often sail for months in a strech, but they could technology travel for years concerning food, with some water refills on the way. But they wouldent have to, fast ships, so its just teoreticly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockfish

Easy sail, We know they sailed from iran to new foundland, and that is much further. Maybe easy was a bit self confident, but they had the technology to do it. And the west coast, hawai and new zeeland would have been a natural continuation of their exploring.

Edited by whitegandalf

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Humans simply will invent the same stuff given a chance.

Its not a rule. Why aboriginals didnt develop what else were practising for centuries?

Why Maya have writting system and other natives didnt?

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Vikings-Voyages.png

Oseberg.jpg

Gokstad-ship-model.jpg

Edited by whitegandalf

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Ormen lange vikingship

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Vikings-Voyages.png

Oseberg.jpg

Gokstad-ship-model.jpg

I wouldn't want to carry that very far.

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I also bet that the "fastest racing sail boats of today" can beat them.

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I think the one they carried was bit smaller, maybe half with 16 oars, some were twice as large as lower picture from above with 60+ oars. These was also strong men who was used to roing 7 hours a day. Hard work to be a viking.

I think overall todays racing boats are faster too, but not by much. But under certain conditions it will loose to the viking ship.

960x.jpg

One of the larger ones, Dragen Harald Hårfagre (the dragon harald nice hair). There is one even lobger, ormen lange (long serpent) but i cant seem to post the picture here for some reason.

brygge-skipet_1.jpg

And this one, but its from around 100 years after the official viking empire ended and took jesus as their new god. 1180 ad

Edited by whitegandalf

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I also bet that the "fastest racing sail boats of today" can beat them.

yes they could, but still, norse ships could travel 150 + kilometers a day under decent conditions.

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Its not a rule. Why aboriginals didnt develop what else were practising for centuries?

Why Maya have writting system and other natives didnt?

Because humans only develop the technology they NEED?? If you're culture does not need writing or records, then it will probably not be developed. If you culture does not need machines, like the natives of the Amazon, who live in clearing and huts... then they will not pursue and develop those things. Also depends on available food, which influences free time, which influences imagination, which influences invention of new technologies.

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Thor Indra Andraste Zeus Tehshub Tengri.....................thunder god was everywhere.

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