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None of the above

Birth Defects Epidemic after Iraq invasion

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When do you think a war would be justified? Do you actually believe that people want war instead of peace? Or is it just this particular "aggression" that bothers you so much? Serious questions - not trying to bait you.

The first time we went into Iraq was necessary, the second time NO. There was no justification for going in there. IMO, there comes a point when the people of a country needs to take care of their own despot. Look at what the Romanians did. Afghanistan, we should have went in and carpet bombed the training camps and got out. Then went after Bin Laden as a criminal. I don't think these people want what we are offering, they don't seem to want freedom. They don't seem to understand it means to be tolerant of another's religion or way of life. A theocracy is just another form of totalitarianism. True secularism, makes religion irrelevant, believe what you want, run your church or whatever how you want, but don't run the state by it, or you're going to take someones rights away. It is not the job of the west to police the world, It can't be done. It is just a waste of life and resources.

There are people out there who want war, why, they make big bucks selling guns, bombs, planes and tanks. It is all about money and power. That includes the Taliban, Israeli theocracy, Iranian theocracy, Haliburton and the rest of them. "Just cooperate criminals playing with tanks." The rest of us just want food, home and family.

Read what the Dalai Lama has to say about war. I agree with most of it.

http://www.dalailama...-reality-of-war

Edited by Darkwind
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The first time we went into Iraq was necessary, the second time NO. There was no justification for going in there. IMO, there comes a point when the people of a country needs to take care of their own despot. Look at what the Romanians did. Afghanistan, we should have went in and carpet bombed the training camps and got out. Then went after Bin Laden as a criminal. I don't think these people want what we are offering, they don't seem to want freedom. They don't seem to understand it means to be tolerant of another's religion or way of life. A theocracy is just another form of totalitarianism. True secularism, makes religion irrelevant, believe what you want, run your church or whatever how you want, but don't run the state by it, or you're going to take someones rights away. It is not the job of the west to police the world, It can't be done. It is just a waste of life and resources.

There are people out there who want war, why, they make big bucks selling guns, bombs, planes and tanks. It is all about money and power. That includes the Taliban, Israeli theocracy, Iranian theocracy, Haliburton and the rest of them. "Just cooperate criminals playing with tanks." The rest of us just want food, home and family.

Read what the Dalai Lama has to say about war. I agree with most of it.

http://www.dalailama...-reality-of-war

I can agree with everything you say with the caveat that I believe wars are necessary when a country like Iran for instance, have stated a goal of destabilizing and subjugating another group of people. When someone says openly that they want to kill you then I think a person or nation have a right to act in their own interests. It's not always possible to just take the first blow and hope you have the strength to come back and win the fight. Put another way - I'm in not good health and I walk daily to help with that. If some thug comes up and says he's going to beat me down because he wants my iPod or doesn't like my face then I will dramatically lower his blood pressure before I accept his plan.

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I can agree with everything you say with the caveat that I believe wars are necessary when a country like Iran for instance, have stated a goal of destabilizing and subjugating another group of people. When someone says openly that they want to kill you then I think a person or nation have a right to act in their own interests. It's not always possible to just take the first blow and hope you have the strength to come back and win the fight. Put another way - I'm in not good health and I walk daily to help with that. If some thug comes up and says he's going to beat me down because he wants my iPod or doesn't like my face then I will dramatically lower his blood pressure before I accept his plan.

Israel has the bomb, so Iran wants one too, so what is new? They can bomb each other till kingdom come for all I care. I don't what our young men and women wasted in their conflict. These people been fighting for thousands of years. I don't think they are ever going to stop. The UN gave the European Jews a homeland, great, trouble was there where already people living there. The Palestinians want their country back, can you blame them? I guess nobody learned anything from what happen to the Native peoples of the Americas, Australia and the numerous other places where people where push out by colonialism. Now they all got the local Abrahamic religions taking advantage of the situation hoping they can come out on top with their brand of totalitarianism. They're all stupid, the Middle East is one of the greatest tourist traps in all the world and they are throwing it away to fight over which Flying Spaghetti Monster is best, sausage or meatball.

Edited by Darkwind

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Israel has the bomb, so Iran wants one too, so what is new? They can bomb each other till kingdom come for all I care. I don't what our young men and women wasted in their conflict. These people been fighting for thousands of years. I don't think they are ever going to stop. The UN gave the European Jews a homeland, great, trouble was there where already people living there. The Palestinians want their country back, can you blame them? I guess nobody learned anything from what happen to the Native peoples of the Americas, Australia and the numerous other places where people where push out by colonialism. Now they all got the local Abrahamic religions taking advantage of the situation hoping they can come out on top with their brand of totalitarianism. They're all stupid, the Middle East is one of the greatest tourist traps in all the world and they are throwing it away to fight over which Flying Spaghetti Monster is best, sausage or meatball.

This flying spaghetti monster comes with a world wide nuclear conflagration regardless of whether you think it's crazy or not.

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I've never heard of lead or mercury being teratogenic, though I knew lead exposure can cause intellectual impairment in young children. I wonder what other metals were involved.

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New Study: US, NATO Responsible for Massive Birth Defects in Iraq

TEHRAN (FNA)- A new scientific study confirmed the earlier findings that the weapons and ammunition used NATO troops during the US-led war on Iraq caused widespread and irreparable damage to the health of the Iraqi population, including a sharp rise in birth defects in the country.

... Dr Ahmad Hardan, who served as a special science adviser to the World Health Organization, the United Nations and the Iraqi Ministry of Health, said in 2011 that there is scientific evidence linking depleted uranium to cancer and birth defects.

According to Iraqi doctors, cancer cases suddenly and sharply increased after both the 1991 war and the 2003 US invasion of the Muslim country.

Abdulhaq Al-Ani, author of "Uranium in Iraq" recently said that the incubation period for depleted uranium is five to six years, which is consistent with the spike in cancer rates in 1996-1997 and 2008-2009.

Not everyone is ready to draw a direct correlation between allied bombing of these areas and tumors, and the Pentagon has been skeptical of any attempts to link the two. But Iraqi doctors and some Western scholars say the massive quantities of depleted uranium used in the US and British bombs, and the sharp increase in cancer rates are not unconnected.

The water, soil and air in large areas of Iraq, including Baghdad, are contaminated with depleted uranium ...

Read more

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New Study: US, NATO Responsible for Massive Birth Defects in Iraq

TEHRAN (FNA)- A new scientific study confirmed the earlier findings that the weapons and ammunition used NATO troops during the US-led war on Iraq caused widespread and irreparable damage to the health of the Iraqi population, including a sharp rise in birth defects in the country.

... Dr Ahmad Hardan, who served as a special science adviser to the World Health Organization, the United Nations and the Iraqi Ministry of Health, said in 2011 that there is scientific evidence linking depleted uranium to cancer and birth defects.

According to Iraqi doctors, cancer cases suddenly and sharply increased after both the 1991 war and the 2003 US invasion of the Muslim country.

Abdulhaq Al-Ani, author of "Uranium in Iraq" recently said that the incubation period for depleted uranium is five to six years, which is consistent with the spike in cancer rates in 1996-1997 and 2008-2009.

Not everyone is ready to draw a direct correlation between allied bombing of these areas and tumors, and the Pentagon has been skeptical of any attempts to link the two. But Iraqi doctors and some Western scholars say the massive quantities of depleted uranium used in the US and British bombs, and the sharp increase in cancer rates are not unconnected.

The water, soil and air in large areas of Iraq, including Baghdad, are contaminated with depleted uranium ...

Read more

Hard and dense and toxic to the body in the same ways lead can be. It's nasty stuff but a report like this coming from the Fars News Agency I would take with a box of salt. I didn't know that D.U. actually has less radioactivity than natural Uranium.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

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Hard and dense and toxic to the body in the same ways lead can be. It's nasty stuff but a report like this coming from the Fars News Agency I would take with a box of salt. I didn't know that D.U. actually has less radioactivity than natural Uranium.....

http://en.wikipedia....epleted_uranium

Here are a few excerpts concerning depleted uranium (DU) from the site you give. These points do "seem" to suggest that DU could be responsible (to as yet undetermined percentage of cases) for the increase in birth defects, etc.

The aerosol or spallation frangible powder produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites, leading to possible inhalation by human beings.[9]

A 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."[10] { <<< However, an evasive WHO proviso follows this ... which is also criticised.}

"the aerosol produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites or can be inhaled by civilians and military personnel."[9]

the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service in early 2004 attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.[69][70] Also, a 2005 epidemiology review concluded: "In aggregate the human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in offspring of persons exposed to DU."[10]

Human epidemiological evidence is consistent with increased risk of birth defects in the offspring of persons exposed to DU.[10] A 2001 study of 15,000 February 1991 U.S. Gulf War combat veterans and 15,000 control veterans found that the Gulf War veterans were 1.8 (fathers) to 2.8 (mothers) times more likely to have children with birth defects.[96] After examination of children's medical records two years later, the birth defect rate increased by more than 20%: "Dr. Kang found that male Gulf War veterans reported having infants with likely birth defects at twice the rate of non-veterans. Furthermore, female Gulf War veterans were almost three times more likely to report children with birth defects than their non-Gulf counterparts. The numbers changed somewhat with medical records verification. However, Dr. Kang and his colleagues concluded that the risk of birth defects in children of deployed male veterans still was about 2.2 times that of non-deployed veterans."[97]

In early 2004, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning.[98][99] Children of British soldiers who fought in wars in which depleted uranium ammunition was used are at greater risk of suffering genetic diseases such as congenital malformations, commonly called "birth defects," passed on by their fathers. In a study of U.K. troops, "Overall, the risk of any malformation among pregnancies reported by men was 50% higher in Gulf War Veterans (GWV) compared with Non-GWVs."[100]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

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Iraqi Birth Defects: Fallujah And Basra Babies Brain Damaged After UK-US Bombardment, Study Finds

Babies born in the cities at the heart of the US and UK's bloodiest military campaigns in Iraq are more likely to have heart defects, deformed limbs and brain damage, according to a new report.

In the survey, more than half of all babies who were conceived after the US invasion of Fallujah were born with birth defects. Before the siege, it was one in 10.

Graphic images of babies with twisted limbs, organs forming on the outside of bodies and inflated skulls are included in the study headed by University of Michigan researchers.

http://www.huffingto...l?utm_hp_ref=uk

This is usually a sign that they're experimenting on the local population.

Dont drink the water, dont take their medications and grow your own food.

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This the intention, in your view? To what purpose? I do not agree with Iraq but I still don't believe it was some sort of grand MIC conspiracy either.

Control. .. to affect economic policies in the region. I always like to say that politics is the business of creating appealing excuses for Economic policies. In the case of our 'involvement' in the region i would add war to the list of excuses. Remember ... we went to war in Iraq (the second time) because "the army is there" (RUMSFELD). If the reason for the second Iraq war was simply the removal of Saddam H. ... that could have been accomplished any number of other ways far less costly in resources (and HUMAN LIFE) ,, but no, because costly was high on the list of true purposes. Costly in resources$$$$$$$ during the destructive and restorative phases.... and costly in human life to ensure a substantial enough resistance to justify our 'being there'. It takes very few "leaders" to chart the course for all of the followers. Followers say ..Yes Sir.

I always think back to the illegal secret bombing of Laos and Cambodia during thew twilight of the Vietnam War. It was already known the war was a loser and that we would be pulling out, and yet, aprox. 200 million TONS of bombs were poured out on Laos and Cambodia. BOMBS=MONEY.

All blah blah aside ... Historically , wars have for the most part, been fought for CONTROL .. and primarily economic control ... and , not surprisingly, they still are•

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EXAMPLE:

http://www.aljazeera...3134071641.html

Western oil firms remain as US exits Iraq

The end of the US military occupation does not mean Iraqis have full CONTROL of their oil.

Baghdad, Iraq - While the US military has formally ended its occupation of Iraq, some of the largest western oil companies, ExxonMobil, BP and Shell, remain.

On November 27, 38 months after Royal Dutch Shell announced its pursuit of a massive gas deal in southern Iraq, the oil giant had its contract signed for a $17bn flared gas deal.

Three days later, the US-based energy firm Emerson submitted a bid for a contract to operate at Iraq's giant Zubair oil field, which reportedly holds some eight million barrels of oil.

Earlier this year, Emerson was awarded a contract to provide crude oil metering systems and other technology for a new oil terminal in Basra, currently under construction in the Persian Gulf, and the company is installing control systems in the power stations in Hilla and Kerbala.

Iraq's supergiant Rumaila oil field is already being developed by BP, and the other supergiant reserve, Majnoon oil field, is being developed by Royal Dutch Shell. Both fields are in southern Iraq.

According to the US Energy Information Administration (EIA), Iraq's oil reserves of 112 billion barrels ranks second in the world, only behind Saudi Arabia. The EIA also estimates that up to 90 per cent of the country remains unexplored, due to decades of US-led wars and economic sanctions.

"Prior to the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq, US and other western oil companies were all but completely shut out of Iraq's oil market," oil industry analyst Antonia Juhasz told Al Jazeera. "But thanks to the invasion and occupation, the companies are now back inside Iraq and producing oil there for the first time since being forced out of the country in 1973."

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The fact that these companies are operating without troops backing them should tell you something.

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... that they use private security guards?... that the "Threat' has always been exaggerated, Selectively ?.. that we bullied most resistance out of the locals? ... so what?

The major oddly ignored Fact remains that the invasion coincided with Saddam H's decision to trade Iraqi oil for Euros , instead of dollars. ... CONTROL•

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http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/15/headlines/study_us_bombings_caused_staggering_increases_in_iraqi_birth_defects_miscarriages

Study: U.S. Bombings Caused "Staggering Increases" in Iraqi Birth Defects, Miscarriages

A new study has provided further evidence of the damage to Iraqi public health caused by the 2003 U.S. invasion and occupation. The Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology found "staggering increases" in Iraqi birth defects and miscarriages in the Iraqi cities of Basra and Fallujah, which both endured heavy U.S. bombing. Iraqi children were found to have elevated levels of mercury and lead, key elements in the manufacture of bullets and bombs. Overall, the study says U.S. bombings have left a "footprint of metal in the population," causing a "public health crisis." Next March will mark the Iraq War’s 10th anniversary.

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... that they use private security guards?... that the "Threat' has always been exaggerated, Selectively ?.. that we bullied most resistance out of the locals? ... so what?

The major oddly ignored Fact remains that the invasion coincided with Saddam H's decision to trade Iraqi oil for Euros , instead of dollars. ... CONTROL•

I seem to recall almost DAILY pipeline sabotage for awhile. Bottom line is if the Iraqis didn't want those companies there they couldn't pump a drop - silly conspiracy theories or not.

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I seem to recall almost DAILY pipeline sabotage for awhile. Bottom line is if the Iraqis didn't want those companies there they couldn't pump a drop - silly conspiracy theories or not.

Yes, some seem to resent ours and others PRESENCE in their country. .. and... we now do business with a different group of Iraqis than .. previously ?

..silly conspiracy theories or not.

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Yes, some seem to resent ours and others PRESENCE in their country. .. and... we now do business with a different group of Iraqis than .. previously ?

..silly conspiracy theories or not.

It takes a handful of militants to sabotage a pipeline. The Iraqis as a nation are ready to put this behind them and do business. It is SILLY to think they don't want the oil companies there or that we are arm twisting. The only way the pipelines start burning again is if they feel the $ isn't being shared equally.

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It takes a handful of militants to sabotage a pipeline. The Iraqis as a nation are ready to put this behind them and do business. It is SILLY to think they don't want the oil companies there or that we are arm twisting. The only way the pipelines start burning again is if they feel the $ isn't being shared equally.

Well, I'm glad someone understands "the iraqis as a nation" ... referring to the entire nation as they clearly demonstrates the depth and range of that understanding.

..not that i have a much better understanding of the situation.. a little less naive perhaps.

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