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LucidElement

Conspiracy Theories

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I never spent much time in here, but I came across a theory IMO... And I would like to vent it on here, as I realize there are many Conspiracy theorists out there. I want to start off by saying their is no doubt about the fact that the government hides information and what not from Americans. But, why does everyone want to be so involved in what those secrets are and finding out the facts about certain events..???? The government is not about killing their own Americans, raping people, etc...

Think about this.... Since 1776, I believe secrets were being held covered up from the people of America. All the way till now 236 years later. But check it out, we have a safe country, all things considered and its because the government keeps things hidden from us. If we know stuff, then people will tell things to other countries and yada yada things go south. I'd like to think for 236 years of hiding information for the general public has been a good thing. It keeps the secrets where they belong and it keeps our country safer. We have ONLY HAD ONE MAJOR ATTACK (SAD AS HELL 9/11 WAS) but in 236 years Id say things that are keep hidden from us is for a good part. It happens for a reason.

Think about living in North Korea, China.. Communist type governments, not only will they not tell you a damn thing but they will also tell you exactly how to live.Hell, FBI Agent Robert Hanssen sold classified information to the Russians for years and I don't think the Russians are a bit any stronger. So what im saying, in theory, is that it doesn't matter if they are conspiracies, like if we were behind 9.11 or if we werent. We willl never know and its made to be like that. Our country is strong and has gone this long because of keeping matters inside a circular government door. We can not have every individual know all the secrets because then we would truly be screwed.. Unless im missing someting about the fascination about Conspiracy theories and why everyone wants to know everything, then I think its dumb and if in the wrong hands conversations will skew and everyone will know everything and thats it.. NO SUPRISES, no Secretive wars, no special defenses, nothing.. And thats not how you keep a strong nation like USA alive.. Government secrets will always be and they must be,

Again guys its just my opinion. But I was talking to a few people and they kind of found it interesting. Again, im new in this section, so im not sure how the responses are going to fall. lol

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Conspiracy theorists just like to hate the government only the American one though, communists I say

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Hi Lucid

*snip* I think I understand what you're saying.

I think everybody here DOES love his country, even with all its imperfections and warts.

But if we really claim to be a country with the rule of law, then crimes and fraud committed by the government of the country cannot be allowed or tolerated. That is, of course, assuming that you favor the rule of law. And I understand that you may not favor the rule of law, in that you seem happy to keep any crimes committed by the government to be swept under the rug of secrecy.

Is that what you're trying to say?

Edited by libstaK
refer rule 5b

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Conspiracy theorists just like to hate the government - only the American one though.

And how and why have you arrived at that conclusion?

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I never spent much time in here, but I came across a theory IMO... And I would like to vent it on here, as I realize there are many Conspiracy theorists out there. I want to start off by saying their is no doubt about the fact that the government hides information and what not from Americans. But, why does everyone want to be so involved in what those secrets are and finding out the facts about certain events..???? The government is not about killing their own Americans, raping people, etc...

Think about this.... Since 1776, I believe secrets were being held covered up from the people of America. All the way till now 236 years later. But check it out, we have a safe country, all things considered and its because the government keeps things hidden from us. If we know stuff, then people will tell things to other countries and yada yada things go south. I'd like to think for 236 years of hiding information for the general public has been a good thing. It keeps the secrets where they belong and it keeps our country safer. We have ONLY HAD ONE MAJOR ATTACK (SAD AS HELL 9/11 WAS) but in 236 years Id say things that are keep hidden from us is for a good part. It happens for a reason.

Think about living in North Korea, China.. Communist type governments, not only will they not tell you a damn thing but they will also tell you exactly how to live.Hell, FBI Agent Robert Hanssen sold classified information to the Russians for years and I don't think the Russians are a bit any stronger. So what im saying, in theory, is that it doesn't matter if they are conspiracies, like if we were behind 9.11 or if we werent. We willl never know and its made to be like that. Our country is strong and has gone this long because of keeping matters inside a circular government door. We can not have every individual know all the secrets because then we would truly be screwed.. Unless im missing someting about the fascination about Conspiracy theories and why everyone wants to know everything, then I think its dumb and if in the wrong hands conversations will skew and everyone will know everything and thats it.. NO SUPRISES, no Secretive wars, no special defenses, nothing.. And thats not how you keep a strong nation like USA alive.. Government secrets will always be and they must be,

Again guys its just my opinion. But I was talking to a few people and they kind of found it interesting. Again, im new in this section, so im not sure how the responses are going to fall. lol

Of course it is necessary for there to be state secrets, clandestine/covert activity.l

It is not necessary to ALLOW condone encourage sweep under the rug the rogue individuals and ideological zealots who WILL and DO kill their 'own'......who will and do commit illegal acts, oh yes many under the guise of national security. But my dear, I don't think you understand how many of these 'acts' actually endanger our national security.

I want to vomit when I hear a fellow American say we don't need to know the real facts responsible for 3,000 murders.....no/ we don't?.....those in power know what they are doing....and yes many do and many are good good human beings and THEY know the saboteurs and criminals and enemies foreign AND domestic ought to be dealt with. But with many having just such such a passive trusting view as your own....why would they even bother to go to the trouble?

How many of you think we have domestic enemies? Not just someone like McVeigh.......but folks in State, CIA, military, etc etc

I LOVE my country enough to want only the best and most honest and loyal to be in positions of power.

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I never spent much time in here, but I came across a theory IMO... And I would like to vent it on here, as I realize there are many Conspiracy theorists out there. I want to start off by saying their is no doubt about the fact that the government hides information and what not from Americans. But, why does everyone want to be so involved in what those secrets are and finding out the facts about certain events..???? The government is not about killing their own Americans, raping people, etc...

Some information the government hide's is or may be due to stopping another country/enemy getting the same technology or weapon's or information that they have or are working on, that is understandable that they want to keep such information secret...

Not everyone want's to know the truth or to find out secret's or fact's, there are some people that are more than willing to accept what the government says happened about certain event's...

There are people that want to find out the truth and fact's of certain event's, due to all the Innocent people dying or have died due to those event's and those event's effect everyone in that country, in some way, shape or form...

Do You not want to know the truth ? or are You willing to accept what the government says happened and take them at face value ? (Taking someone at face value is assuming another person's suggestion, offer, or proposal is sincere)

Even though You state Yourself that...

"I want to start off by saying their is no doubt about the fact that the government hides information and what not from Americans."

I cannot believe for a minute that You stated what You did, in the part that I have highlighted/bolded in Red

Have You never heard of "Operation Northwood's" ???

Quote from wikipedia...

"Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated in 1962 within the United States government, and which the Kennedy administration rejected."

http://en.wikipedia....tion_Northwoods

I would suggest reading up on that before making statement's like You did, again....

There are some theory's that I believe could be interlinked with each other, especially the connection of JFK assasination, and JFK rejecting Operation Northwood's, and between 9/11 and Operation Northwood's...

Conspiracy theorists just like to hate the government only the American one though, communists I say

It has got nothing to do with hating the government or being a communist, in fact I believe that some CT's are more of a patriot than some of the skeptic's/sceptic's..... (A patriot is someone who feels a strong support for his or her country, and NOT necessarily to the government)

It has more to do with knowing something just does not add up in the official story and that there is just too many unexplained flaw's in the "Official story" (story being the operative word)

Edited by Jackofalltrades
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Wiki has a great article on this subject. It's well worth the read. Here's a snippet.

The political scientist Michael Barkun discussing the usage of this term in contemporary American culture holds that a conspiracy theory is a belief which explains an event as the result of a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end.[8][9]
According to Barkun, the appeal of conspiracism is threefold
:
First, conspiracy theories claim to explain what institutional analysis cannot.
They appear to make sense out of a world that is otherwise confusing.
Second, they do so in an appealingly simple way, by dividing the world sharply between the forces of light and the forces of darkness.
They trace all evil back to a single source, the conspirators and their agents.
Third, conspiracy theories are often presented as special, secret knowledge unknown or unappreciated by others. For conspiracy theorists, the masses are a brainwashed herd, while the conspiracy theorists in the know can congratulate themselves on penetrating the plotters' deceptions.
[9]

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Wiki has a great article on this subject. It's well worth the read. Here's a snippet.

The political scientist Michael Barkun discussing the usage of this term in contemporary American culture holds that a conspiracy theory is a belief which explains an event as the result of a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end.[8][9]
According to Barkun, the appeal of conspiracism is threefold
:
First, conspiracy theories claim to explain what institutional analysis cannot.
They appear to make sense out of a world that is otherwise confusing.
Second, they do so in an appealingly simple way, by dividing the world sharply between the forces of light and the forces of darkness.
They trace all evil back to a single source, the conspirators and their agents.
Third, conspiracy theories are often presented as special, secret knowledge unknown or unappreciated by others. For conspiracy theorists, the masses are a brainwashed herd, while the conspiracy theorists in the know can congratulate themselves on penetrating the plotters' deceptions.
[9]

you know labeling anyone who disagrees or thinks for themselves as a conspiracist or crazy or subversive....is one of the greatest tools they use.it is quite an effective one too. Many that would speak up and demand answers and legit investigations never do because of the stigma.

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you know labeling anyone who disagrees or thinks for themselves as a conspiracist or crazy or subversive....is one of the greatest tools they use.it is quite an effective one too. Many that would speak up and demand answers and legit investigations never do because of the stigma.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but that isn't what you are doing at all. You're making claims, and some pretty outrageous ones at that, and providing absolutely nothing substantial to back them up with. Do you see the difference?

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There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but that isn't what you are doing at all. You're making claims, and some pretty outrageous ones at that, and providing absolutely nothing substantial to back them up with. Do you see the difference?

they are only outrageous to someone who doesn't understand certain 'atmospheres' and MO's of particulur groups/individuals. I haven't even scatched the surface.

Do you have any questions regarding 9/11?

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There is nothing wrong with asking questions, but that isn't what you are doing at all. You're making claims, and some pretty outrageous ones at that, and providing absolutely nothing substantial to back them up with. Do you see the difference?

booNy, I have a feeling that this is heading into similar territory as Regeneratia's "KNOWING" of things... :hmm:

Cz

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Ignorance is bliss :yes:

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The connotation for "conspiracy theory" is a negative one. It implies that it is not valid, and terribly wrong.

Dubya got that connotation going very well in his appearance at the UN in November 2001.

Simple english is a better way to discuss the subject.

CT is simply a theory about any given conspiracy. Conspiracy amongst humans are as common as fleas on a dog, but some would have us believe they are rare as hen's teeth.

Corrupt the language, and you can corrupt the thought processes.

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The most outrageous thing about 9/11 is that after watching 3,000 of their fellow Americans being savagely murdered and the ones who are screaming for a thorough and complete investigation are criticised more heavily than the perps. It is truly outrageous.

I don't know how anyone believes the official investigation was thorough or adequate. Even those on the 9/11 Commission do not believe so.

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My guess is that most who defend the OCT are acting in accordance with Huck Finn's observation about faith--it's when you believe something that you know ain't true. :whistle:

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The most outrageous thing about 9/11 is that after watching 3,000 of their fellow Americans being savagely murdered and the ones who are screaming for a thorough and complete investigation are criticised more heavily than the perps. It is truly outrageous.

As long as I don't have to pay for another investigation out of my pocket and not using taxpayer money, I am all for it, especially if those who are crying for another investigation pay for the investigation out of their own pocket.

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As long as I don't have to pay for another investigation out of my pocket and not using taxpayer money, I am all for it, especially if those who are crying for another investigation pay for the investigation out of their own pocket.

3,000 murdered and all you are worried about is money? DISGUSTING.......

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And how and why have you arrived at that conclusion?

Look at the topics

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3,000 murdered and all you are worried about is money? DISGUSTING.......

3,000 murdered and all you are worried about is money? DISGUSTING.......

I already know that another investigation is not going to change the official story, so if 9/11 conspiracist want to waste their money, let them go for it.

I already revealed many times how an individual can conduct their own investigation to acquire documentation from non-government sources proving beyond any doubt the 9/11 conspiracist have been wrong all along.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Look at the topics

I have. Rather than looking at them though, perhaps you should read what the "CTs" are actually saying.

It isn't about hating anything simply for the sake of hating. It isn't about hating the government simply because it is the government either. It's about wanting people held accountable for their actions and having light shed on the truth as opposed to being force fed, manipulated, and conditioned into believing and accepting "truths" which are not real.

Communism has nothing to do with it either.

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I already know that another investigation is not going to change the official story, so if 9/11 conspiracist want to waste their money, let them go for it.

I already revealed many times how an individual can conduct their own investigation to acquire documentation from non-government sources proving beyond any doubt the 9/11 conspiracist have been wrong all along.

how do you know another investigation will not change the 'official' story?

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3,000 murdered and all you are worried about is money? DISGUSTING.......

And what of those out there on the CT side of things who are happy to take your (the generic "your") money for their dvd's, books, newsletters, posters, stickers, banners, etc....?

Surely if they were actually serious about it as they make themselves seem when they're taking money for those items, they could pool their resources to fund their own independent investigation, couldn't they...?

How do you feel about their concern over money...?

Cz

Edited by Czero 101
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they are only outrageous to someone who doesn't understand certain 'atmospheres' and MO's of particulur groups/individuals. I haven't even scatched the surface.

You haven't scratched the surface because you've brought nothing to the table except for accusations. You can accuse all day if you want. You can accuse until you're blue in the face.

Until you bring some substantial evidence to the table, it will just be meaningless babble.

Do you have any questions regarding 9/11?

As in, questions that you can answer? Not really no.

Or do you mean, do I think that there are unanswered questions about certain details of that day? Sure. There will always be unanswered questions.

Am I satisfied with the amount of investigation that was done? Yes, as a matter of fact I am. Not only the official investigation, but also all of the diligent work that has followed that in answer to baseless truther claims.

Ignorance is bliss :yes:

So are you ever going to inform any of us about whatever it is that you claim you know and back it up with something verifiable?

The most outrageous thing about 9/11 is that after watching 3,000 of their fellow Americans being savagely murdered and the ones who are screaming for a thorough and complete investigation are criticised more heavily than the perps. It is truly outrageous.

You can scream all that you want, a thorough investigation has already been done. Could it have been more thorough? Sure, there is always room for improvement. That is true no matter what you do. You aren't just screaming about additional investigations though. You are accusing people of some pretty outrageous things and bringing nothing at all to back it up. Is there an echo in here? I seem to keep saying that...

I don't know how anyone believes the official investigation was thorough or adequate. Even those on the 9/11 Commission do not believe so.

And I don't know how people come up with their baseless claims about what they think happened. Nor do I understand why they continue to cling to them even after completely reasonable explanations and answers have been provided.

3,000 murdered and all you are worried about is money? DISGUSTING.......

I'm not as concerned about money as I am about the reasoning for this new investigation in the first place. None of the claims of the 9/11 truth movement have withstood scrutiny. In order to justify the expense of such a thing, we need more than tantrums and appeals to emotion. We need some real verifiable reasons to conclude that we don't already have adequate answers to the questions posed.

how do you know another investigation will not change the 'official' story?

Any changes would likely be minor. Regardless of what you may think, the investigations that have been done have been pretty thorough. There is room for improvement, yes, but as mentioned before; this will always be the case.

The bottom line here is that the truth movement has utterly failed to make its case.

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booNy, I have a feeling that this is heading into similar territory as Regeneratia's "KNOWING" of things... :hmm:

Cz

Yes, I suspect you are right about that.

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And what of those out there on the CT side of things who are happy to take your (the generic "your") money for their dvd's, books, newsletters, posters, stickers, banners, etc....?

Surely if they were actually serious about it as they make themselves seem when they're taking money for those items, they could pool their resources to fund their own independent investigation, couldn't they...?

How do you feel about their concern over money...?

Cz

I am not one of them and do not hang out with them.

My goal is a legitimate investigation into 9/11. I think many on all sides do not give a damn about those murdered and just want recognition or money or a good fight. Anyone that has no respect for the victims of 9/11 is no friend of mine. I don't care who you are or what you represent, if you don't have any respect or desire for justice I have no use for ya.

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