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LucidElement

Conspiracy Theories

193 posts in this topic

You haven't scratched the surface because you've brought nothing to the table except for accusations. You can accuse all day if you want. You can accuse until you're blue in the face.

Until you bring some substantial evidence to the table, it will just be meaningless babble.

As in, questions that you can answer? Not really no.

Or do you mean, do I think that there are unanswered questions about certain details of that day? Sure. There will always be unanswered questions.

Am I satisfied with the amount of investigation that was done? Yes, as a matter of fact I am. Not only the official investigation, but also all of the diligent work that has followed that in answer to baseless truther claims.

So are you ever going to inform any of us about whatever it is that you claim you know and back it up with something verifiable?

You can scream all that you want, a thorough investigation has already been done. Could it have been more thorough? Sure, there is always room for improvement. That is true no matter what you do. You aren't just screaming about additional investigations though. You are accusing people of some pretty outrageous things and bringing nothing at all to back it up. Is there an echo in here? I seem to keep saying that...

And I don't know how people come up with their baseless claims about what they think happened. Nor do I understand why they continue to cling to them even after completely reasonable explanations and answers have been provided.

I'm not as concerned about money as I am about the reasoning for this new investigation in the first place. None of the claims of the 9/11 truth movement have withstood scrutiny. In order to justify the expense of such a thing, we need more than tantrums and appeals to emotion. We need some real verifiable reasons to conclude that we don't already have adequate answers to the questions posed.

Any changes would likely be minor. Regardless of what you may think, the investigations that have been done have been pretty thorough. There is room for improvement, yes, but as mentioned before; this will always be the case.

The bottom line here is that the truth movement has utterly failed to make its case.

you know I can't and won't post certain things on here. Don't pretend to be so naive.......there is a time and place for everything though. and i will never give up fighting for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I only wish to encourage a legit investigation into 9/11. I do not need to show or prove anything to you. I don't give a you know what who believes me who belittles me whatever floats your boat.

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You haven't scratched the surface because you've brought nothing to the table except for accusations. You can accuse all day if you want. You can accuse until you're blue in the face.

Until you bring some substantial evidence to the table, it will just be meaningless babble.

As in, questions that you can answer? Not really no.

Or do you mean, do I think that there are unanswered questions about certain details of that day? Sure. There will always be unanswered questions.

Am I satisfied with the amount of investigation that was done? Yes, as a matter of fact I am. Not only the official investigation, but also all of the diligent work that has followed that in answer to baseless truther claims.

So are you ever going to inform any of us about whatever it is that you claim you know and back it up with something verifiable?

You can scream all that you want, a thorough investigation has already been done. Could it have been more thorough? Sure, there is always room for improvement. That is true no matter what you do. You aren't just screaming about additional investigations though. You are accusing people of some pretty outrageous things and bringing nothing at all to back it up. Is there an echo in here? I seem to keep saying that...

And I don't know how people come up with their baseless claims about what they think happened. Nor do I understand why they continue to cling to them even after completely reasonable explanations and answers have been provided.

I'm not as concerned about money as I am about the reasoning for this new investigation in the first place. None of the claims of the 9/11 truth movement have withstood scrutiny. In order to justify the expense of such a thing, we need more than tantrums and appeals to emotion. We need some real verifiable reasons to conclude that we don't already have adequate answers to the questions posed.

Any changes would likely be minor. Regardless of what you may think, the investigations that have been done have been pretty thorough. There is room for improvement, yes, but as mentioned before; this will always be the case.

The bottom line here is that the truth movement has utterly failed to make its case.

Has it ever occured to you there are people independent of the Truth Movement and conspiracy enthusiasts?

Let's get one thing straight you insensitive prick! Wanting justice for the 3,000 murdered is not throwing a tantrum or appealing to emotion......some of you make me ill. Maybe if you lost a loved one or was hurt by 9/11 you could maybe possibly understand. who knows.....

some people are so brainwashed and cold-hearted they still probably wouldn't get it......

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you know I can't and won't post certain things on here.

Well that's convenient. Don't expect to be taken seriously though if all you're going to do is rant.

Don't pretend to be so naive.......there is a time and place for everything though. and i will never give up fighting for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

What is naive about my unwillingness to just accept your word for it without any substantiation? It seems to me that it would be naive of me to believe you on faith alone. I'm not willing to do that.

I don't have any problem with you wanting the truth by the way. There is actually quite a bit of it available if you are willing to do some research.

I only wish to encourage a legit investigation into 9/11. I do not need to show or prove anything to you.

Do you not understand that in order to justify a new investigation there must be grounds for it? Another investigation wouldn't be cheap. Why should we put forth the expense exactly? There needs to be a legitimate reason put forward before it would even be considered. So far there hasn't been a legitimate reason put forth.

I don't give a you know what who believes me who belittles me whatever floats your boat.

I'm not trying to belittle you TB. I'm merely hi-lighting the problems in your argument. I'm criticizing your words, not you as a person. I'm criticizing your unsubstantiated claims, not your character.

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Has it ever occured to you there are people independent of the Truth Movement and conspiracy enthusiasts?

Sure it has occurred to me. Regardless of whether you are associated with the truth movement, you still need evidence in support of your claims. Without that you have nothing substantial unfortunately.

Let's get one thing straight you insensitive prick!

Easy now... I'll have you know that I'm quite sensitive.

Wanting justice for the 3,000 murdered is not throwing a tantrum or appealing to emotion......

Wanting justice is legitimate. Conveying it in the way that you've been conveying it is both throwing a tantrum and appealing to emotion.

some of you make me ill. Maybe if you lost a loved one or was hurt by 9/11 you could maybe possibly understand. who knows.....

I fully understand your outrage surrounding the tragedy that took place on 9/11. I share in that outrage. What happened that day was senseless, horrible, and downright disgusting. I am in total agreement with you and I often find myself in tears when reflecting on the lives which were lost. I think most of us are in agreement about that.

It was specifically because of this outrage that I could not participate in these dialogs at all for a very long time. I just couldn't handle it. I stayed away from these kinds of discussions for years for that very reason.

some people are so brainwashed and cold-hearted they still probably wouldn't get it......

How does my demanding that your claims be substantiated equate to me being either brainwashed or cold-hearted exactly?

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Sure it has occurred to me. Regardless of whether you are associated with the truth movement, you still need evidence in support of your claims. Without that you have nothing substantial unfortunately.

Easy now... I'll have you know that I'm quite sensitive.

Wanting justice is legitimate. Conveying it in the way that you've been conveying it is both throwing a tantrum and appealing to emotion.

I fully understand your outrage surrounding the tragedy that took place on 9/11. I share in that outrage. What happened that day was senseless, horrible, and downright disgusting. I am in total agreement with you and I often find myself in tears when reflecting on the lives which were lost. I think most of us are in agreement about that.

It was specifically because of this outrage that I could not participate in these dialogs at all for a very long time. I just couldn't handle it. I stayed away from these kinds of discussions for years for that very reason.

How does my demanding that your claims be substantiated equate to me being either brainwashed or cold-hearted exactly?

feel free to pass on posting to me if you think I am full of sh**.....as i have said I do not care if you believe me or talk to me.

It should be the govt job to investigate and prove what really happened. If you believe it's all a ok and they did your job.....yeah for you. I really have nothing more to say because you are not even OPEN to the idea that 9/11 did not quite play out the way you were told. You believe everyone in opposition is a nut or throwing tantrums or too incredible to believe.

I am wasting my time talking to close minded ones. go chat with those like you. have a wonderful evening and i hope life treats you well. :)

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feel free to pass on posting to me if you think I am full of sh**.....as i have said I do not care if you believe me or talk to me.

Perhaps you should ask yourself an important question. You don't need to do this publicly of course, feel free to do it on your own time and in privacy.

"If I can't provide evidence which actually supports what I believe may have happened or not happened, why exactly do I believe that it happened or didn't happen?"

It should be the govt job to investigate and prove what really happened. If you believe it's all a ok and they did your job.....yeah for you.

The government did investigate, as did many agencies and groups outside of the government. So far this historically documented version of events is the best supported that I've seen. If there is a plausible alternate version, I'm willing to at least entertain it as being possible, but in order to actually accept it, I'd need it to be more strongly evidenced than what we already have on historical record.

Is that really all that unreasonable?

I really have nothing more to say because you are not even OPEN to the idea that 9/11 did not quite play out the way you were told.

Why are you wrongly accusing me of not being open? I'm attempting to engage you in discussion. I've asked you multiple times for your evidence. If you have evidence and you are withholding it from me, how does that equate to me being closed minded?

You believe everyone in opposition is a nut or throwing tantrums or too incredible to believe.

Not at all. I believe that people who throw tantrums are throwing tantrums.

If you want to convince me of something, you'll need to bring evidence to the table in order to do so. Of course, you've stated that you aren't trying to convince anyone. What then is your intention? Are you just venting?

I am wasting my time talking to close minded ones. go chat with those like you. have a wonderful evening and i hope life treats you well. :)

If you think that I'll accept anything less than substantial evidence before I accept your claims, you are indeed wasting your time.

I hope that you have a wonderful evening as well. Take care of yourself TB. :)

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I am not one of them and do not hang out with them.

My goal is a legitimate investigation into 9/11. I think many on all sides do not give a damn about those murdered and just want recognition or money or a good fight. Anyone that has no respect for the victims of 9/11 is no friend of mine. I don't care who you are or what you represent, if you don't have any respect or desire for justice I have no use for ya.

I see....

Isn't it interesting that when a person who supports the "Official Narrative" is concerned over where the money will come from for the new investigation and suggests that those who are the most vocal about wanting a new investigation should pay for it themselves you find it "DISGUSTING" that the person is concerned over the money, and yet when those CT's who demand a new investigation but are too busy openly profiting (off the murder of those 3,000 people that you rail on and on about) to pay more than lip service to a new investigation are brought up you simply "don't have time for them"...

Very interesting indeed...

Cz

Edited by Czero 101

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feel free to pass on posting to me if you think I am full of sh**.....as i have said I do not care if you believe me or talk to me.

Maybe the reason why nobody will believe you is that you are throwing out accusations without any shred of evidence to back your accusations up.

That is the jist of what booN is saying.

Merely throwing around accusations and not providing evidence is basically throwing tantrums/venting.

It should be the govt job to investigate and prove what really happened.

And they already have had an investigation. Just because you merely think it was not up to your epicurial standards does not warrant another investigation as the original report had all the evidence to back itself up.

I am up for another investigation, I have stated that before, but not at any tax payer's expense.

If you believe it's all a ok and they did your job.....yeah for you.

The official narrative has all the evidence required to come to the known conclusion.

Had the Conspiricay theorists come with a common theory, then maybe it would have warranted another investigation, however there is no common conspiracy theory.

Let me provide you with SOME of those theories.

1. Nuclear detonation at WTC

2. Drones

3. Controlled demolition

4. Shootdown theory (UA 93)

5. Cruise missile (AA 77)

6. DEW (direct energy weapons)

7. off load of passengers (UA 93)

8. Remote controlled flight

9. Pentagon fly-over

that is only SOME of the theories

Why can't the CT's come together in an agreement when it comes to what happened on 9/11?

Yet the official narrative has come with only one solution to each given incident.

I really have nothing more to say because you are not even OPEN to the idea that 9/11 did not quite play out the way you were told.

It is not about being open/closed minded on the possibilities of 9/11. The fact of the matter is, the evidence supporting the official narrative is abundant and makes sense.

Just because you cannot come to an agreement on it does not make it less of a fact.

Remember, no evidence is not considered evidence.

You believe everyone in opposition is a nut or throwing tantrums or too incredible to believe.

No, it is because you have not provided any evidence to support your bantering accusations.

I am wasting my time talking to close minded ones. go chat with those like you. have a wonderful evening and i hope life treats you well. :)

Neither am I. I have wasted enough time discussing anything with another poster here (Regeneratia).

Looks like as if you are heading down the same boat.

Edited by RaptorBites
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Maybe the reason why nobody will believe you is that you are throwing out accusations without any shred of evidence to back your accusations up.

That is the jist of what booN is saying.

Merely throwing around accusations and not providing evidence is basically throwing tantrums/venting.

And they already have had an investigation. Just because you merely think it was not up to your epicurial standards does not warrant another investigation as the original report had all the evidence to back itself up.

I am up for another investigation, I have stated that before, but not at any tax payer's expense.

The official narrative has all the evidence required to come to the known conclusion.

Had the Conspiricay theorists come with a common theory, then maybe it would have warranted another investigation, however there is no common conspiracy theory.

Let me provide you with SOME of those theories.

1. Nuclear detonation at WTC

2. Drones

3. Controlled demolition

4. Shootdown theory (UA 93)

5. Cruise missile (AA 77)

6. DEW (direct energy weapons)

7. off load of passengers (UA 93)

8. Remote controlled flight

9. Pentagon fly-over

that is only SOME of the theories

Why can't the CT's come together in an agreement when it comes to what happened on 9/11?

Yet the official narrative has come with only one solution to each given incident.

It is not about being open/closed minded on the possibilities of 9/11. The fact of the matter is, the evidence supporting the official narrative is abundant and makes sense.

Just because you cannot come to an agreement on it does not make it a fact.

Remember, no evidence is not considered evidence.

No, it is because you have not provided any evidence to support your bantering accusations.

Neither am I. I have wasted enough time discussing anything with another poster here (Regeneratia).

Looks like as if you are heading down the same boat.

Even some on the 9/11 Commission knew the investigation was a sham, they were impeded and blocked many many times from a thorough investigation. Many intelligence operatives know it was a sham, and some firefighters and policemen and family of victims know this too.

Your blessing, 'wisdom' or insight is not needed to confirm that a REAL investigation is warranted.

feel free to move along if you don't like my posts. have a good evening.

You don't have to waste your time....please move on. I don't force you to respond to my posts.

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Even some on the 9/11 Commission knew the investigation was a sham, they were impeded and blocked many many times from a thorough investigation. Many intelligence operatives know it was a sham, and some firefighters and policemen and family of victims know this too.

Like what has been said before, not all the questions were answered when it comes to the official investigation into 9/11.

Could the investigation have been handled differently? Sure it can, however based on the evidence presented, the conclusion is quite clear.

If any of those firefighters, families of victims, and intelligence operatives you speak of are able to present a smoking gun, back by concrete evidence, then there is no need for another investigation funded by tax payer's dollars.

If those who do not believe in the Official Narrative would put their own money aside to pay for a new investigation then by all means.

Or better yet, propose government funding for a new investigation yourself. However, there is one thing that will stop you, evidence.

Your blessing, 'wisdom' or insight is not needed to confirm that a REAL investigation is warranted.

I never said that, What I did state however is that the evidence present clearly backs the official investigation. If you were to find the smoking gun to all this to but the case wide open again, please present it here for us to review.

feel free to move along if you don't like my posts. have a good evening.

Unfortunately, I have been at this longer than you have, and this is an open forum. If i want to respond to your arguments I feel that I am free to do so.

You don't have to waste your time....please move on. I don't force you to respond to my posts.

I feel that it is necessary to respond to your posts in due kind as to not have you poison those less than verbal to post on this forum/thread.

Let's call it, setting an example, if you may.

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Even some on the 9/11 Commission knew the investigation was a sham, they were impeded and blocked many many times from a thorough investigation. Many intelligence operatives know it was a sham, and some firefighters and policemen and family of victims know this too.

Can you give me a link where you read this, or where you saw it on video?

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One's good for now. I didn't expect that you'd have every article in your 'Favorites' list. :)

Thank you, I'll read it through and maybe we can discuss it's merits later.

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One's good for now. I didn't expect that you'd have every article in your 'Favorites' list. :)

Thank you, I'll read it through and maybe we can discuss it's merits later.

actually I am not a computer whiz...lol....I feel awesome just being able to post a link. what may seem simple to most with computers isn't to me. I prefer reading books actually. Im weird....I admit it :lol: a little crazy too. :wacko: lol

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Yes, the NY Times article. Since this was written by two senior members of the Commission, and if what they say is true, it does appear that they were impeded by the C.I.A., at least in this instance. This is good evidence.

The second link (I got that too),... not so much.

All I got was a list of people who think there there should be a new investigation. I clicked on the 'articles' link, but it didn't really take me anywhere.

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Yes, the NY Times article. Since this was written by two senior members of the Commission, and if what they say is true, it does appear that they were impeded by the C.I.A., at least in this instance. This is good evidence.

The second link (I got that too),... not so much.

All I got was a list of people who think there there should be a new investigation. I clicked on the 'articles' link, but it didn't really take me anywhere.

yes that isn't the best link but it had a lot of the different people who also would like another investigation....why not google each of their names and decide which source you think is best or most believable. ......Sibel Edmonds is a good one. There is testimony under oath she gives

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yes that isn't the best link but it had a lot of the different people who also would like another investigation....why not google each of their names and decide which source you think is best or most believable. ......Sibel Edmonds is a good one. There is testimony under oath she gives

Okay, I'll look her up.

I just hope that she isn't listed in the '1500+ Engineers and Architects' list. If that's the group that I think it is (I feel that I have to warn you), I, for one, don't lend much creedance to what they say.

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Okay, I'll look her up.

I just hope that she isn't listed in the '1500+ Engineers and Architects' list. If that's the group that I think it is (I feel that I have to warn you), I, for one, don't lend much creedance to what they say.

I am sure you are more informed and intelligent than all the military men and professionals listed. they can't all be legit.....its ok. I would be interested though if you would person by person tell me why they are not to be trusted? why their concerns are unimportant?

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You know that Stubblebine used to try to walk / run through the walls of his office, right...?

And no, he never succeeded in his efforts.

Cz

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...Sibel Edmonds is a good one. There is testimony under oath she gives

Just read the Wiki entry. She does seem to have an impressive linguistic background and education before she was hired as a translator for the FBI (nine days after the attack).

And she left. Length of employment: Sept. 20, 2001 - Mar. 22, 2002.

But the only thing that I can gather about the Commission Report was that her testimony wasn't included.

I'm not sure where that supports your above assertions. Maybe I'm just a little dense right now? :) zzzzzzz...

Edited by Likely Guy

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This is a good article, thank you for sharing it.

I agree completely that this does seem to indicate that the CIA was hiding something from the commission. But what was it that they were hiding?

Tapes of interrogations.

Are there any possible reasons that they might do this which don't equate to complicity or participation in the 9/11 attacks?

I'd say yes.

Despite the article mentioning that the commission wasn't mandated to investigate how detainees were treated, if they had been mistreated in any way (which they probably were) and this evidence surfaced to prove it (which it probably would have), those involved with the interrogations could be prosecuted. Don't get me wrong, I do not condone abusive interrogation techniques or torture and I'm not attempting to defend them, but this seems like a reasonable explanation for why such tapes may have been destroyed and these details withheld.

Now, could it alternatively suggest that these tapes were destroyed to hide some kind of evidence for complicity or participation? Yes, it is possible. I find it highly unlikely, but yes I agree that it is possible.

With that in mind, what good would a new investigation do in light of these possibilities? Would a new investigation retrieve the destroyed tapes? Would a new investigation compel the people involved to admit to whatever they did? If it was the hypothetical non-conspiratorial scenario that I mentioned previously, would the perpetrators admit to torturing these detainees? If it was conspiratorial, would they admit to that? The probable answer to both of those is likely to be a resounding No.

Could a newly empowered commission obtain access to the specific detainees in question? Have those detainees already been re-interrogated in relation to this? Were any of them interrogated by the FBI before the CIA? Are they even still alive? The two mentioned are still alive in Guantanamo, Abu Zubaydah and Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, and they appear to have both been tortured. What about the other 116 individuals? Were they also tortured? Probably. Are they still alive? I don't know.

It does seem as though we've had these people in custody for a long while though, and the CIA isn't the only agency who has had access to them. The FBI was able to obtain some very good information from them in fact, if you read through the wiki articles. Did the FBI uncover any information from these detainees that would point to an inside job? Don't you think they'd bring that to light if they had? I'd hope that they would, and yet I haven't seen them say anything about it beyond the blunders that we all have heard about and read about.

If this wiki article is correct, Abu Zubaydah actually was interrogated by the FBI first, and only after that did the CIA become involved with less savory methods. Nothing about complicity came from that.

And this article talks about the destruction of the tapes themselves and the ensuing investigation. It would seem very likely that my hypothetical about the possible reasons these tapes may have been destroyed is extremely likely.

As deplorable as such techniques are in themselves, this still doesn't point to government or CIA complicity in the 9/11 attacks. It's horrible what we've done to these detainees, and I disagree with the court's decision to drop all charges against those involved, but it still leaves us with little of substance in support of 9/11 conspiracy claims.

I do thank you for bringing some evidence to the table though.

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This is a good article, thank you for sharing it.

I agree completely that this does seem to indicate that the CIA was hiding something from the commission. But what was it that they were hiding?

...but it still leaves us with little of substance in support of 9/11 conspiracy claims.

I do thank you for bringing some evidence to the table though.

This is a good thing!

At least we're off the circular debate;

"Something's fishy about 9/11!"

"Give me evidence that something's fishy about 9/11!"

We should speak and debate about points, yes?

Edited by Likely Guy
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This is a good thing!

At least we're off the circular debate;

"Something's fishy about 9/11!"

"Give me evidence that something's fishy about 9/11!"

We should speak and debate about points, yes?

That's all I've been asking for. Kudos to you for sparking that. :tu:

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go back to the main point lol.. stay off the 9/11 stuff. Proving my POINT WE WILL NEVERRR KNOW FOR SURE.. whats the point in stressin over it. It is what it is.. we lost a very good family friend in 9/11. but again, noone will ever know if it was a planned attack or if their was more to it... BACK TO THE POINT AT HAND

**Think about this.... Since 1776, I believe secrets were being held covered up from the people of America. All the way till now 236 years later. But check it out, we have a safe country, all things considered and its because the government keeps things hidden from us. If we know stuff, then people will tell things to other countries and yada yada things go south. I'd like to think for 236 years of hiding information for the general public has been a good thing. It keeps the secrets where they belong and it keeps our country safer. We have ONLY HAD ONE MAJOR ATTACK (SAD AS HELL 9/11 WAS) but in 236 years Id say things that are keep hidden from us is for a good part. It happens for a reason.***

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