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LucidElement

Conspiracy Theories

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When FDR data from American 77 was reexamined, it reconfirmed the official story and basically, I see the same result if new investigations are conducted on the 9/11 attacks because there was no way the government could have kept a 9/11 conspiracy a secret after all of these years. How quickly did the Nixon administration collapse over the Watergate scandal? And, who stepped down before Nixon over another incident? His Vice President, Spiro Agnew. If 9/11 conspiracy folks want a new investigation, they need to show cause.

I guess you overlooked where I have said that those responsible for the intelligence failures and blunders leading up to the 9/11 attacks must be held accountable.

when you allow someone else to do your dirty work it's not so hard to 'keep a secret' and with so many thinking the 'failures' were just innocent blunders per usual...........they kinda have it easy to get away with their little 'fundraiser'.They don't really have to keep a 'secret' except for ALLOWING the attacks, which u call blunders but some see more cooperation and deliberate assistance i.e. Visa Express for saudi arabia?ignoring many FBI agents with critical intelligence.. ..and on and on..They had Al Qaeda to do their Operations Northwoods for them.........they have their New Pearl harbor and the 'fundraiser' went well, increased defense spending, EVEN AFTER trillions unaccounted for in the Pentagon..........Halliburton makes money. 'They' are doing 'Gods will" ........I think many underestimate the religious extremists right here within our own country/govt.

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when you allow someone else to do your dirty work it's not so hard to 'keep a secret' and with so many thinking the 'failures' were just innocent blunders per usual...........they kinda have it easy to get away with their little 'fundraiser'.

Who said anything about "innocent blunders?!" Not me!! Apparently, you are not on the right page, or should I say, not even in the right book. :no:

As an Air Force retiree and former government employee, pilot, and airframe technician with over 40 years experience, I rely on my experience to tell me what is right, and what is wrong and what I have

read from 9/11 Truthers shows they have been watching too many Hollywood action movies, and yes, my own experience tell me that some of those aviation-related movies are filled with fiction and misinformation to the point that it becomes amusing at times.

They don't really have to keep a 'secret' except for ALLOWING the attacks,...

First of all, you have to provide evidence to make such a statement, and furthermore, without such evidence, you are just spewing worthless and empty words.

Edited by skyeagle409

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Who said anything about "innocent blunders?!" Not me!! Apparently, you are not on the right page, or should I say, not even in the right book. :no:

As an Air Force retiree and former government employee, pilot, and airframe technician with over 40 years of experience, I rely on my own experience to tell me what is right, and what is wrong.

First of all, you have to provide evidence to make such a statement, and furthermore, without such evidence, you are just spewing worthless and empty words.

In theory do you think it is plausible? Did you get my point about

letting' someone else do your dirty work? I don't know but after reading through Operation Northwoods I think there have been/may still be people willing to plan/execute just such a thing...It was conceived of once, why not again?Obviously I don't have a smoking gun. I do not find the official story tells us all that happened on 9/11 though.......

Like you though I also rely on my experiences, just because I can't share all of them doesn't mean I am crazy or whacko or making sh*** up or stupid. The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey.

I can see where it would be harder for a military man such as yourself to believe anything I have said. My father was a Vietnam vet, my grandfathers were WW2 vets, my son is entering military in March........I have great respect for our military. I also have great respect to our intelligence agents, who are not as blunderous as some would think, but who were obstructed and thwarted from doing their jobs....But I also know in every organization/govt/group there are people with agendas, who will do unspeakable things. It's been that way since the beginning of time unfortunately.

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In theory do you think it is plausible? Did you get my point aboutletting' someone else do your dirty work?

I look at their work and from my own experience, tell if their work is worthless or not.

I do my own work as well and I have made phone calls. A case in point was the argument over ACARS and the 9/11 aircraft. Some of my cousins are airline captains as well as members in my two chapters who are also military, airline, and private pilots, one of whom flies missions for NASA.

I have not only discussed the ACARS argument with them, but I have made phone calls to the folks who are ACARS experts and companies who deal with ACARS, and in one call, an employee tried to set me up with an account after he found that I was a pilot.

They all indicated that the 9/11 Truthers are incorrect and as a result of my discussions with other pilots and information gathered from the ACARS phone calls, I have been waiting for the 'Pilots of 9/11 Truth' to make corrections on its website for the misinformation they have posted in regards to ACARS because the 9/11 conspiracy folks have been using disinformation and misinformation from that website as references.

...forwI don't know but after reading through Operation Northwoods I think there have been/may still be people willing to plan/execute just such a thing...It was conceived of once, why not again?Obviously I don't have a smoking gun. I do not find the official story tells us all that happened on 9/11 though.......

First of all, the government is not capable of putting together a "Northwoods" operation on the scale of the 9/11 attacks and not get caught. As I have said before, there was no way to modify and switch aircraft in such a manner and not get caught and It would have taken me less than 30 minutes to reveal a switched or faked aircraft.

Basically speaking, you have to get out of that 'Hollywood action movie' mindset.

Like you though I also rely on my experiences, just because I can't share all of them doesn't mean I am crazy or whacko or making sh*** up or stupid. The world isn't black and white, it is many shades of grey.

I can see where it would be harder for a military man such as yourself to believe anything I have said. My father was a Vietnam vet, my grandfathers were WW2 vets, my son is entering military in March........I have great respect for our military. I also have great respect to our intelligence agents, who are not as blunderous as some would think, but who were obstructed and thwarted from doing their jobs....But I also know in every organization/govt/group there are people with agendas, who will do unspeakable things. It's been that way since the beginning of time unfortunately.

I am also a war Vet, but don't think that I have never had disagreements with the government on other issues.

Edited by skyeagle409

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I look at their work and from my own experience, tell if their work is worthless or not.

I do my own work as well and I have made phone calls. A case in point was the argument over ACARS and the 9/11 aircraft. Some of my cousins are airline captains as well as members in my two chapters who are also military, airline, and private pilots, one of whom flies missions for NASA.

I have not only discussed the ACARS argument with them, but I have made phone calls to the folks who are ACARS experts and companies who deal with ACARS, and in one call, an employee tried to set me up with an account after he found that I was a pilot.

They all indicated that the 9/11 Truthers are incorrect and as a result of my discussions with other pilots and information gathered from the ACARS phone calls, I have been waiting for the 'Pilots of 9/11 Truth' to make corrections on its website for the misinformation they have posted in regards to ACARS because the 9/11 conspiracy folks have been using disinformation and misinformation from that website as references.

First of all, the government is not capable of putting together a "Northwoods" operation on the scale of the 9/11 attacks and not get caught. As I have said before, there was no way to modify and switch aircraft in such a manner and not get caught and It would have taken me less than 30 minutes to reveal a switched or faked aircraft.

Basically speaking, you have to get out of that 'Hollywood action movie' mindset.

I am also a war Vet, but don't think that I have never had disagreements with the government on other issues.

I don't think 9/11 was a copycat of Operation Northwoods, but I think there are areas that kinda ring a bell and that are plausible...And I think the writers of Operation Northwoods had the Hollywood action movie mindset...lol not that my scenario is any less dramatic.lol

I don't think the govt is capable of such a plot, but i know how committed extremists are, especially religious ones, and they will use any/all resources to push their agenda. As they say, the most committed wins.

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I don't think 9/11 was a copycat of Operation Northwoods, but I think there are areas that kinda ring a bell and that are plausible...And I think the writers of Operation Northwoods had the Hollywood action movie mindset...lol not that my scenario is any less dramatic.lol

I don't think the govt is capable of such a plot, but i know how committed extremists are, especially religious ones, and they will use any/all resources to push their agenda. As they say, the most committed wins.

How many extremist would be required to put together an operation on the level of the 9/11 attacks? Who would finance such an operation? Where would they acquire large aircraft that cannot be traced?

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This is very revealing.. what a load! ... of idiotic contradictions ...

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, (THEN HE SAYS!) .. if he's alive at all.

Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is — really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just — he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is — as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide — (IF) in fact, he's hiding at all. So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.

(INCOMING!*) ... I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban

The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.

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How many extremist would be required to put together an operation on the level of the 9/11 attacks? Who would finance such an operation? Where would they acquire large aircraft that cannot be traced?

i don't know all those answers, but Rumsfeld himself said trillions of dollars unaccounted for in the Pentagon. As for how the planes worked, I do not know. maybe they were fitted with remote flying hardware, maybe the terrorists were simply ALLOWED to fulfill their sick fantasy......the ideologues get their New Pearl Harbor and we have a twisted sick employee to do even more of our dirty work. Remember 1993 WTC bombing and the FBI supervisor that CALLED OFF REPLACING THE explosives with fake powder?

with all due respect that is not a blunder or failure, UNLESS said FBI agent did not know explosives blow and kill people!! Allowing the explosives to be used IMO was an act of treason and should be a serious concern to ALL Americans what certain folks will do to 'fundraise'....and get money for their 'cause'.

I don't have all the answers. I just look at the whole picture, before during and after. And there are just to many things for me to say oh ok, that was just a mistake or blunder, of course those were made. But we happen to have some super intelligent, super dedicated people in our intelligence community and they were not listened to by their higher ups, forget the rivalry between various agencies. these were HUGE red flag pieces of intel, not obscure or gut instinct reactions, but solid evidence that was deliberately IGNORED.

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This is very revealing.. what a load! ... of idiotic contradictions ...

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, (THEN HE SAYS!) .. if he's alive at all.

Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is — really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just — he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is — as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide — (IF) in fact, he's hiding at all. So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.

(INCOMING!*) ... I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban

The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.

exactly.....his last comment looked a fast 'save', one of his handlers probably waved a sign from back of room, or he had an ear piece in.........it is despicable though.He was just so nonchalant and like next? I'm bored.........of course Bin Ladens and Bushes are tight, so it is hard for him to be too tough on them,and of course the Saudi's got special treatment by the Bushes too............and some here lecture me of who I associate with and they have no problem with a pres who gives favor and privilege to terror sponsors............okay then :rolleyes:

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i don't know all those answers, but Rumsfeld himself said trillions of dollars unaccounted for in the Pentagon.

The Pentagon could not track $2.3 trillion in transactions. It could not share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible. That is the reason and nothing to support a conspiracy.

As for how the planes worked, I do not know. maybe they were fitted with remote flying hardware,...

By whom, and how? The airlines are not going to allow their aircraft to be grounded for many months for the purpose of illegally modifying them with remote control hardware.

...maybe the terrorists were simply ALLOWED to fulfill their sick fantasy......the ideologues get their New Pearl Harbor and we have a twisted sick employee to do even more of our dirty work.

A new Pearl Harbor? Right now, we are looking at a huge military budget cut in the billions of dollars and our military services have been forced to make financial sacrifices over the years

Remember 1993 WTC bombing and the FBI supervisor that CALLED OFF REPLACING THE explosives with fake powder?

Let's look at the rest of the story.

Yousef was assisted by Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin, who helped assemble the complex 1,310-pound (590 kg) bomb, which was made of a urea nitrate main charge with aluminum, magnesium and ferric oxide particles surrounding the explosive. The charge used nitroglycerine, ammonium nitrate dynamite, smokeless powder and fuse as booster explosives. Three tanks of bottled hydrogen were also placed in a circular configuration around the main charge, to enhance the fireball and afterburn of the solid metal particles. The use of compressed gas cylinders in this type of attack closely resembles the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing 10 years earlier. Both of these attacks used compressed gas cylinders to create fuel-air and thermobaric bombs that release more energy than conventional high explosives. According to testimony in the bomb trial, only once before the 1993 attack had the FBI recorded a bomb that used urea nitrate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/tr-076.pdf

These were expert bomb makers who didn't require the assistance of the FBI. Yousef, was the terrorist who planted a bomb in an airliner that killed a passenger, but the damaged airliner managed to land.

I don't have all the answers. I just look at the whole picture, before during and after. And there are just to many things for me to say oh ok, that was just a mistake or blunder, of course those were made. But we happen to have some super intelligent, super dedicated people in our intelligence community and they were not listened to by their higher ups, forget the rivalry between various agencies. these were HUGE red flag pieces of intel, not obscure or gut instinct reactions, but solid evidence that was deliberately IGNORED.

Even after the 9/11 attacks, the same government blunders continued.

Edited by skyeagle409

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And some government actions are not blunders, they are deliberate efforts to advance an agenda. Sometimes, they are crimes.

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And some government actions are not blunders, they are deliberate efforts to advance an agenda.

Not in the case of the 9/11 attacks and to underline that fact, there is still no evidence after more than 11 years since the attacks, implicating the U.S. government.

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This is very revealing.. what a load! ... of idiotic contradictions ...

THE PRESIDENT: Deep in my heart I know the man is on the run, (THEN HE SAYS!) .. if he's alive at all.

Who knows if he's hiding in some cave or not; we haven't heard from him in a long time. And the idea of focusing on one person is — really indicates to me people don't understand the scope of the mission. Terror is bigger than one person. And he's just — he's a person who's now been marginalized. His network, his host government has been destroyed. He's the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his match. He is — as I mentioned in my speech, I do mention the fact that this is a fellow who is willing to commit youngsters to their death and he, himself, tries to hide — (IF) in fact, he's hiding at all. So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you. I'm more worried about making sure that our soldiers are well-supplied; that the strategy is clear; that the coalition is strong; that when we find enemy bunched up like we did in Shahikot Mountains, that the military has all the support it needs to go in and do the job, which they did.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run.

(INCOMING!*) ... I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban

The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.

And what is really interesting IMO, is the long relationship between the Bush family and the binLaden family, and various members thereof. Business partnerships going back decades.

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And what is really interesting IMO, is the long relationship between the Bush family and the binLaden family, and various members thereof.

There was no relationship between Osama bin Laden and the Bush family.

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Are we still cranking that old record ? Babe R can we talk ?

Do you know anything about THe current system in place that America uses , I.E. CIA DOD ,SAS,DoCTT ?

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Are we still cranking that old record ? Babe R can we talk ?

Do you know anything about THe current system in place that America uses , I.E. CIA DOD ,SAS,DoCTT ?

No Don, I don't. Why don't you inform me?

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No Don, I don't. Why don't you inform me?

Its All in your own mind. See ! THe CIA,DOD,SAS,DoCTT got it all right !

Now since you know it all What are the organizations Ive just put in front of YOU ? :whistle:

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Conspiracy theorists just like to hate the government only the American one though, communists I say

It seems to me that the communist or far left librals do not care for anything conspriacy, they also hate America for which it stands.

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