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ozman

When ‘God’s will,’ rape and pregnancy collide

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(CNN) - The pregnant 12-year-old girl was strung out on heroin and looked like a walking skeleton when she arrived at the hospital. The conversation that followed, said Phoenix police chaplain John South, has stuck with him ever since.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/25/when-gods-will-rape-and-pregnancy-collide/

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As a christian i think that in good conscience i can say that its more than fine to abort when raped. that being said the worst situations of conception dont set precedent for all conceptions, i agree its a womans choice to have a baby but adults should be responsible and use contraception. i know a few peeps who's parents considered getting an abortion and i cant imagine the world with out them.

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Let's curve over population! ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

BUT, let's be clear: the process can/may have long term emotional/psychological/physical effects.

If a woman can live with her choice and the risks involved, let it be so.

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Let's curve over population! ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

Is that the first thing that comes to mind when you think of abortion in these scenarios?
BUT, let's be clear: the process can/may have long term emotional/psychological/physical effects.

If a woman can live with her choice and the risks involved, let it be so.

Well she sure didn't have a choice during the rape part.
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(CNN) - The pregnant 12-year-old girl was strung out on heroin and looked like a walking skeleton when she arrived at the hospital. The conversation that followed, said Phoenix police chaplain John South, has stuck with him ever since.

http://religion.blog...gnancy-collide/

I especially liked this quote from the article:

“I continue to be bemused by the ultraconservative lawmakers who say they want smaller government and less government intrusion into people’s lives, except when it comes to who you can marry and how many children you should have.”

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I'm absolutely sickened by this.

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The only good thing is finally politicians are saying exactly why they don't support abortion in cases of rape. For decades none of them had the balls to say why -- they just repeated their stance on abortion with no clarification. Now they are publicly telling raped women that they should thank God for turning an awful situation into a wonderful "blessing" by becoming pregnant. The ugliness behind their stance has been revealed.

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Maybe we should take God out of the equation and ask, "where was her mother in all of this?" Also, if this had never happened, she wouldn't have been admitted to the hospital and her father would've continued the abuse for who knows how long.

Edited by WoIverine

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“If you believe she has no right to terminate that pregnancy, you're free to believe that,” Kushner said. “But for you to write your preferences into law and compel another person to mess her life up because of what you believe, I think you're going too far.”

^^^^^This. A thousand times this ^^^^^^

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"Stephen Merchant@StephenMerchant

Todd Akin, Richard Mourdock. What is it about male Republicans? The only other men who spend this much time thinking about rape are rapists"

Great tweet from Steve Merchant on this topic. Thought you may appreciate it.

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well, we are dealing with thre entiteis here not just two or one. there is now an innocent little life that has been conceived. do you think that the child that the fertilized egg will become will be ok with it?

if you want to abort, do it the old fashioned way and leave the rest of us out of it. you know, fall down stairs, drink some concoction like in the old days, etc.

i am all for personal responsiblity andbelieve that people will pay for their sins one day, but the rest of us should not be forced to live in a society where murder is better than rape.

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well, we are dealing with thre entiteis here not just two or one. there is now an innocent little life that has been conceived. do you think that the child that the fertilized

egg will become will be ok with it?

Are we? We are dealing with one individual and an embryo that has less brain cells than you do. So your question doesn't really make sense.
i am all for personal responsiblity andbelieve that people will pay for their sins one day, but the rest of us should not be forced to live in a society where murder is better than rape.
No one is committing murder.
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My stand is abortion is a women's health care issue and is between her and her doctor. The government need to stay out of women's uterus.

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anything can be seen as a blessing.

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Are we? We are dealing with one individual and an embryo that has less brain cells than you do. So your question doesn't really make sense.

No one is committing murder.

so life is based on braincells?

ending a human life is not murder?

you arent a human then.

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so life is based on braincells?

ending a human life is not murder?

you arent a human then.

Where do you draw the line? A single cell organism, such as a fertilized egg, is as much life as anything else, yet when you scratch your head, you kill hundreds of them. Are you a mass murderer? Before fertilization, human sperm are as alive as you are. Are you a mass murderer even when you successfully fertilize an egg (only one makes it in, millions die)? There's little difference between a fertilized egg (before the first trimester) and the other kinds of lifeforms they are at that point in development. Fertilized eggs have the potential to become human (to about 45% chance of live birth across the general population), but most die on their own before becoming human. Giving women the choice to have one not become human because of rape seems fair to me. You'd be spreading the rape gene. Better to weed that out of our gene pool. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but for sure it'd be before the first trimester is done.

Edited by ranrod
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Where do you draw the line? A single cell organism, such as a fertilized egg, is as much life as anything else, yet when you scratch your head, you kill hundreds of them. Are you a mass murderer? Before fertilization, human sperm are as alive as you are. Are you a mass murderer even when you successfully fertilize an egg (only one makes it in, millions die)? There's little difference between a fertilized egg (before the first trimester) and the other kinds of lifeforms they are at that point in development. Fertilized eggs have the potential to become human (to about 45% chance of live birth across the general population), but most die on their own before becoming human. Giving women the choice to have one not become human because of rape seems fair to me. You'd be spreading the rape gene. Better to weed that out of our gene pool. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but for sure it'd be before the first trimester is done.

but a sperm cell is not a human life, nor does it have the potential to become human life on its own, same as any human egg cell. i dont think there is any rape gene LOL. as long as there are unfavorable environments in developmental stages of young adulthood there will always be rape or murder or craziness.

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so life is based on braincells?

Decisions are. Your question what the embryo will want is therefore asinine.
ending a human life is not murder?

you arent a human then.

Murder is illegal killing. You're not very bright. Edited by Rlyeh

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I happen to know a woman who had a child that came out her being raped. Both her & her son's lives are so charged with emotion around this that neither are sure having the child was the best decision. We take life all the time, by the hundreds, and hundreds of thousands. It's called war. We put criminals to death. We let starving people die when we have the means to feed them. "And all of the people involved are viable human beings, walking, talking, breathing air, with families. The idea of calling abortion murder has it's genesis with the religious right, and when we bring God into the equation it becomes a religious issue. While I respect the religious beliefs of others, I do not want it legislated and forced on me or my community. All one has to do is look back in history to see what happens to a country when religious beliefs become paramount to all else: the Inquisition, witch burnings, land and property being taken away, executions, women being barred from education, men forced to wear beards, people's lives in danger because of their beliefs. It's a slippery slope, and one we should stay off us.

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And can I say I'm tired of the "it's God's will" business. I'm not a believer in the Abrahamic God, so that phrase holds no authority for me. And it's way over used; it seems to be the ultimate justification for people exercising their own will.

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That's what happens when people are blinded by religion .. It makes me sick! :angry:

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but a sperm cell is not a human life, nor does it have the potential to become human life on its own, same as any human egg cell. i dont think there is any rape gene LOL. as long as there are unfavorable environments in developmental stages of young adulthood there will always be rape or murder or craziness.

Well I disagree about the rape gene. I've seen some good research indicating it is a genetic trait, at least in a good deal of the cases. The life the sperm alone lives or an egg alone lives is not very different from the life a fertilized egg lives. The fertilized egg might die on its own or through willful termination but the act of terminating an egg, a sperm, or a fertilized egg is not very different. They're all small-cell organisms. Terminating small cell organisms is not murder.

It does feel wrong to terminate a pregnancy past a certain point. That point seems very subjective to determine. As a law, that point should NOT be based on religion. Luckily women normally know when they are raped so they can end it when it's a small-cell organism.

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Government should stay out of it, it is between her and her doctor, if you hate abortion and think of it as murder, do not have an abortion.

Some religions/cultures see rats as life, cows as life... doesn't mean everyone does

Some think of life beginning at the second of conceptions, does not mean all of us do.

Some believe in what their 'holy' book says, does not mean all of us do.

We are not all of one religious or one cultural belief system. This is one of those areas. Your belief is yours, you should follow it. My belief system is mine, and I should follow it. I should not force you to have an abortion if you are raped. You should not force me to have a baby if I am raped.

really.. it is that simple, it only becomes complicated when one group feels they have a right to force part or all of their belief on another and want to do it legally.

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^^^^^This. A thousand times this ^^^^^^

Seconded, this is why politics and religion should never, ever mix.

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Well first off, most people who believe in the Abrahamic tradition ( ie. Christianity, Islam, Judaism), and who tout "gods will" tend to forget the pretty basic concept of "free will". Which basically dictates that in order for there to even be original sin there had to be the ability to either choose or reject it. This leads to the fact that the world is very much like a wind up toy, yes God started things in motion (whither by big bang, or by chucking Lama's into the air or whatnot is irrevelent), but then is mostly stepped away from the affairs of humanity leaving us to choose what we will. Thus humans will inevitable make evil decisions like to rape another individual; The rape would not be "God's will" just any more then it is "God's will" for me to eat a frikken candy bar. So we can remove the concept of god wanting a rape victim to be forced to carry on the pregnancy from said rape.

Now as for is abortion morally acceptable in any situation, that is a totally different issue; and basically boils down to the question of "When does the lump of sperm cells become aware?" before that point then yes abortion through surgical or chemical means would be allowed and be no different that cutting your fingernails; it's only cells. But after... well then you are taking the life of a sentient being, that is murder, and you have to ask whither murdering that individual was in any way justified.

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