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Operations Northwoods

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Just would like to hear opinions and thoughts on how far a govt will go to 'justify' war? And would any of you support such an operation like Northwoods?

http://en.wikipedia....tion_Northwoods

If they was prepared to use "Operation Northwoods" in the past, then what is to stop them using it now ? (if they have not already done so)

As You know it was the Kennedy administration (JFK) that rejected it, (a possibility for his assasination ?)

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If they was prepared to use "Operation Northwoods" in the past, then what is to stop them using it now ? (if they have not already done so)

As You know it was the Kennedy administration (JFK) that rejected it, (a possibility for his assasination ?)

That is exactly my views on it. the CT community didn't come up with that 'plan'......

People are just so trusting of 'official' stories, one of these attacks they are gonna come right out and say...well, yes WE did it.....BUT it was for your own GOOD!! and many will nod their head and bow in respect. It is frightening to watch just how gullible folks can be.

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Just would like to hear opinions and thoughts on how far a govt will go to 'justify' war? And would any of you support such an operation like Northwoods?

http://en.wikipedia....tion_Northwoods

I've heard of this it had 9/11 reference to it... they even talked about it in congress everything is on youtube, i mean the footage where they talk about it.

But hey this is US we're talking about, everything for invasion, and useage of bombs for peacefull campaign... No offence but i don't like how US people think...i won't go deeper on that... but i'll ask this " How many false flag operations has US done over the course of history? "

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It is frightening to watch just how gullible folks can be.

Do not turn on the TV! ;)

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I've heard of this it had 9/11 reference to it... they even talked about it in congress everything is on youtube, i mean the footage where they talk about it.

But hey this is US we're talking about, everything for invasion, and useage of bombs for peacefull campaign... No offence but i don't like how US people think...i won't go deeper on that... but i'll ask this " How many false flag operations has US done over the course of history? "

well, i certainly do not think the US is the only country that would resort to these tactics. :no: IMO the problem lies with ideologues, especially those who claim a 'divine' mandate will do anything to push their agendas. It is quite troubling, but in no way is it only a US issue.

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Wouldn't a better title be PLANNED Operation Northwoods?

Folks like to talk about Northwoods like it actually happened. The Northwoods plan also doesn't call for the wholesale slaughter of US civilians in order to justify a military intervention in Cuba. If you read the full document, it goes out of its way to lay out scenarios where there is no loss of US civilian life. Granted, the idea of killing a boatload of Cuban refugees is a bit over the top, but, again, many Northers (ha, just invented that - please credit me in all future references) would have us believe that CIA agents dressed as Cuban operatives would be blowing up trains and machine gunning elementary schools.

Here's an interesting take if folks are so inclined.

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/us-government/operation-northwoods/

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Folks like to talk about Northwoods like it actually happened. The Northwoods plan also doesn't call for the wholesale slaughter of US civilians in order to justify a military intervention in Cuba. If you read the full document, it goes out of its way to lay out scenarios where there is no loss of US civilian life. Granted, the idea of killing a boatload of Cuban refugees is a bit over the top, but, again, many Northers (ha, just invented that - please credit me in all future references) would have us believe that CIA agents dressed as Cuban operatives would be blowing up trains and machine gunning elementary schools.

The Northwoods plan would have resulted in the potential deaths of thousands of U.S. and Cuban civilians in the staged-pretext based war, even though it appears that a limited number of U.S. civilians would have been killed during the initial staged-event itself during the Miami terror campaign and detonation of plastic explosive bombs. However, why it matters whether a few hundred or thousand, or none at all, perished during creation of the pretext I don’t know.

I mean what is the argument in regard to 9/11?…

That any potential planners (here we are looking at Neocons of the Bush administration) are prepared to commit to death 10,000+ coalition forces and contractor personnel, 25,000+ Afghan and Iraqi security forces personnel (supposedly our allies) and 100,000+ civilians from those countries (by some estimates an awful lot more), not to mention all those many thousands more maimed and injured… but oh not the 3,000 on 9/11, a drop in the ocean in a country of 300 million, who were somehow too important to lose? There is no logic to it - they were few compared to the eventual number that would perish as an end result of the operation. Like it matters whether it’s 135,000+ or 138,000+. The same can be applied to the cost of rebuilding in the U.S. compared to the cost of the wars themselves.

The real importance of Northwoods is that it shows there is the potential for hawkish individuals within the U.S. government/military system to stage false flag terror attacks (or at least the appearance of) on the U.S., including the killing of civilians (Cubans and possibly limited Americans), in order to deceive the public and sway misplaced patriotic fervour in support of an unjust war that would result in the deaths of thousands more. If Bush, Cheney and co. were the final hurdle rather than JFK then it could have happened in 1962. In addition, Northwoods also contains reference to the switching of civilian aircraft for drone flights to present the appearance of an attack by foreign nationals - where of course aircraft were used on 9/11 and never physically identified by the official investigations.

Also please could you direct me to these ‘Northers’ who would have us believe that CIA agents dressed as Cuban operatives would be blowing up trains and machine gunning elementary schools? Or was that from your imagination in attempt to discredit ‘Northers‘ with the vigilance to accept the record as a real warning of historical precedent?

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Northwoods is relevant only because it reveals to what lengths the government is willing to go in order to deceive the american people so that a particular agenda or mission might be accomplished.

Clearly it will go quite far, and it does not care how many casualties result. A perverse line of reasoning might be "the more casualties the better".

The government is willing to generate what "evidence" it needs for the mission, and destroy any evidence that might reveal its deception.

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Northwoods is relevant only because it reveals to what lengths the government is willing to go in order to deceive the american people so that a particular agenda or mission might be accomplished.

Clearly it will go quite far, and it does not care how many casualties result. A perverse line of reasoning might be "the more casualties the better".

The government is willing to generate what "evidence" it needs for the mission, and destroy any evidence that might reveal its deception.

Nothing there that implicates the U.S. government in the 9/11 attacks and after more than 11 years, still no evidence. :no:

Edited by skyeagle409

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Sky

You appear to be challenged in perceptive abilities to make such a statement.

There are many things that implicate the federal government, but you are simply unable to perceive them for some reason. More things are being discovered every day, and perhaps one of the most fascinating is that work done by Dick Eastman, Tom Flocco, V.K. Durham and Karl Schwarz.

Operation Northwoods, though it was never executed, shows how deceptive the federal government and DoD is willing to get. The similarities between it and the events of 11 September are very interesting. Fake airplanes and False Flag.

It's there Chief, if only you could see it.

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Nothing there that implicates the U.S. government in the 9/11 attacks and after more than 11 years, still no evidence. :no:

Blind.

I've heard of this it had 9/11 reference to it... they even talked about it in congress everything is on youtube, i mean the footage where they talk about it.

But hey this is US we're talking about, everything for invasion, and useage of bombs for peacefull campaign... No offence but i don't like how US people think...i won't go deeper on that... but i'll ask this " How many false flag operations has US done over the course of history? "

Do you really think there have been no false flags perpetrated by European countries???????? Gullible a bit?
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Sky

You appear to be challenged in perceptive abilities to make such a statement.

There are many things that implicate the federal government, but you are simply unable to perceive them for some reason. More things are being discovered every day, and perhaps one of the most fascinating is that work done by Dick Eastman, Tom Flocco, V.K. Durham and Karl Schwarz.

Evidence is what counts and so far, not one shred of evidence has surfaced after more than 11 years that implicates the U.S. government in the 9/11 attacks.

Operation Northwoods, though it was never executed, shows how deceptive the federal government and DoD is willing to get. The similarities between it and the events of 11 September are very interesting. Fake airplanes and False Flag.

First of all, there was no way to switch nor modify a B-757 or a B-767 with the kind of systems they processed, and not draw attention. Remember, we are not talking about the old B-707 and the B-720. Now, where is the evidence that can be used in a court of law that implicates the U.S. government in a 9/11 false flag operation?

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Evidence is what counts Sky?

Your actions speak louder than your cheap words here sir. You disregard evidence of all sorts. You pretend other evidence does not exist, such as your denial of the existence of molten metal and extreme heat at WTC.

On the other hand, you have at least once here MADE UP evidence and used it to deceive. You deceived me once for a short period, but in doing so showed your true colors.

There is ample evidence that the events of 11 September were every bit the false flag operation that Northwoods was. That is why there are so many organizations seeking a proper investigation, seeking the truth.

Yes, evidence is what counts. Why do you deny so much of it?

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Evidence is what counts Sky?

That's right!!

Your actions speak louder than your cheap words here sir. You disregard evidence of all sorts. You pretend other evidence does not exist,...

You have failed to show me any evidence that I can disregard.

...such as your denial of the existence of molten metal

You got it wrong again!! Where have I ever denied the existence of molten metal? I have denied no such thing. :no: Please show where I have denied the evidence of molten metal.

...and extreme heat at WTC.

I have said that temperatures from the fires within the WTC buildings were high enough to weaken steel, which they were. That was evident when people were reporting the buildings were buckling prior to collapsing.

You deceived me once for a short period, but in doing so showed your true colors.

You actually deceived yourself because you claimed to have been a pilot when it was clear to us that you were no such thing. :no: You continued to make blunder after blunder after blunder in regards to FAA regulations, aircraft flight capabilities and maneuvers. I wondered when you were going to sto,p but you continued to commit further blunders on aviation matters.

There is ample evidence that the events of 11 September were every bit the false flag operation that Northwoods was.

Sorry, but that doesn't work any more than your false comments about nuclear bombs taking down the WTC buildings or explosives knocking down the light poles near the Pentagon where clearly, impact damage was evident on the poles themselves.

Demolition experts from companies such as, Protec, the American Association of Civil Engineers, the American Institute of Architects, Air Line Pilots Association, and Allied Pilot Association, do not support 9/11 conspiracy folks. :no:

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Blind.

Show me the evidence!

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The Northwoods plan would have resulted in the potential deaths of thousands of U.S. and Cuban civilians in the staged-pretext based war, even though it appears that a limited number of U.S. civilians would have been killed during the initial staged-event itself during the Miami terror campaign and detonation of plastic explosive bombs. However, why it matters whether a few hundred or thousand, or none at all, perished during creation of the pretext I don’t know.

I mean what is the argument in regard to 9/11?…

That any potential planners (here we are looking at Neocons of the Bush administration) are prepared to commit to death 10,000+ coalition forces and contractor personnel, 25,000+ Afghan and Iraqi security forces personnel (supposedly our allies) and 100,000+ civilians from those countries (by some estimates an awful lot more), not to mention all those many thousands more maimed and injured… but oh not the 3,000 on 9/11, a drop in the ocean in a country of 300 million, who were somehow too important to lose? There is no logic to it - they were few compared to the eventual number that would perish as an end result of the operation. Like it matters whether it’s 135,000+ or 138,000+. The same can be applied to the cost of rebuilding in the U.S. compared to the cost of the wars themselves.

The real importance of Northwoods is that it shows there is the potential for hawkish individuals within the U.S. government/military system to stage false flag terror attacks (or at least the appearance of) on the U.S., including the killing of civilians (Cubans and possibly limited Americans), in order to deceive the public and sway misplaced patriotic fervour in support of an unjust war that would result in the deaths of thousands more. If Bush, Cheney and co. were the final hurdle rather than JFK then it could have happened in 1962. In addition, Northwoods also contains reference to the switching of civilian aircraft for drone flights to present the appearance of an attack by foreign nationals - where of course aircraft were used on 9/11 and never physically identified by the official investigations.

Also please could you direct me to these ‘Northers’ who would have us believe that CIA agents dressed as Cuban operatives would be blowing up trains and machine gunning elementary schools? Or was that from your imagination in attempt to discredit ‘Northers‘ with the vigilance to accept the record as a real warning of historical precedent?

Sorry, but what you're saying simply isn't in the plan. I'm assuming you've read it?

And yes, it does point to those in the military to come up with some fairly crazy stuff. But there is simply no evidence that this was anything more than a crazy plan that ended up getting a lot of high level military officers relieved of command when it was shot down by the civilian leadership - i.e. our system working exactly how it's supposed to work.

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous. But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

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Sorry, but what you're saying simply isn't in the plan. I'm assuming you've read it?

And yes, it does point to those in the military to come up with some fairly crazy stuff. But there is simply no evidence that this was anything more than a crazy plan that ended up getting a lot of high level military officers relieved of command when it was shot down by the civilian leadership - i.e. our system working exactly how it's supposed to work.

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous. But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

All it proves is how the government behaves. Has behaved, for decades now.

Pure deception, as it pleases. The public perception MUST be controlled, and the historical record kept clean.

Except when, OOPS, some whistleblower blabs or some heretofore secret document or case is declassified by accident.

Another good example of the OOPS factor is the case 345US1 from March of 1953. US v. Reynolds. OOPS, our bad behavior was made public.

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To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous. But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

I agree! :tu:

It is beyond ludicrous to think that 9/11 involved the U.S. government and to sum that up, they cannot provide evidence to backup their claim..

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But there is simply no evidence that this was anything more than a crazy plan that ended up getting a lot of high level military officers relieved of command when it was shot down by the civilian leadership - i.e. our system working exactly how it's supposed to work.

No military officers were reprimanded for the plan. Indeed Lemnitzer maintened his status as a four-star general and was later given a quite prestigious position as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO (formerly held by Dwight Eisenhower) where he would have overseen progress of other clandestine/untoward action; Operation Gladio (there is a parallel to be drawn between that and continued CIA connection to Al Qaeda after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan).

To make the leap that a 50-year-old plan that was never enacted somehow "proves" something about Government involvement in 9/11 is beyond ludicrous. But I guess it does give all you Norther/Truther types something to fantasize about.

It’s not about making a leap but building a case, of which Operation Northwoods is a useful piece of background information/historical precedent for what took place on 9/11.

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It’s not about making a leap but building a case, of which Operation Northwoods is a useful piece of background information/historical precedent for what took place on 9/11.

With no evidence to backup it up, your statement does not hold water because:

* No evidence in videos nor in the data from seismic monitors in the area that explosives were used

* No evidence the 9/11 aircraft were modified to fly under remote control

* No evidence United 93 was shot down

* No evidence of thermite cuts on structural steel

* No evidence of structural pre-weakening on WTC columns

* No evidence of a pod on United 175

* No evidence of a faked United 175 operating out of Boston airport

* No evidence that 9/11 aircraft were switched in flight

* No evidence that American 77 passed north of the gas station

* No evidence that a missile was used in the attack on the Pentagon

The list goes on and on, so the question is; Who has been making up these tales surrounding the 9/11 attacks?

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With no evidence to backup it up, your statement does not hold water because:

Do try to have some focus skyeagle.

Your list of skewed opinion is not relevant here.

The topic is Operation Northwoods.

I'm talking about the parallel between Northwoods and 9/11; each presenting an attack as pretext for a resultant war.

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Do try to have some focus skyeagle.

Your list of skewed opinion is not relevant here.

The topic is Operation Northwoods.

I'm talking about the parallel between Northwoods and 9/11; each presenting an attack as pretext for a resultant war.

What I waiting for, is evidence of a Northwoods-like operation that ties the U.S. government to the 9/11 attacks and after more than 11 years, not one shred of evidence of such an operation has surfaced.

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What I waiting for, is evidence of a Northwoods-like operation that ties the U.S. government to the 9/11 attacks and after more than 11 years, not one shred of evidence of such an operation has surfaced.

yes, but you are not sticking to the topic at hand...........focus!

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yes, but you are not sticking to the topic at hand...........focus!

The government couldn't even keep the Watergate scandal from revealing itself all over the world, so what makes people think they could have pulled off an "Operation Northwoods" or a similar operation, and not get caught? They would have had to understand that some people tend to talk in their sleep.

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