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Big Bad Voodoo

Sumerian astronomical knowledge

54 posts in this topic

Obviously the Royal Game of UR comes from 2,600 -2,000 BC.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/me/t/the_royal_game_of_ur.aspx

Usually looking at geometric shapes in Muslim philosophy regarding this started around 700 AD. indeed muslims never show pictures in places of worship. but use geometric shapes regarding Phi and geometry, however this is very interesting if we think geometry and Platonic Solid imaging didn't start with the Greek Masters, i'm not saying i can decipher the patterns on the Royal Game of UR, but i still think it has meaning to it!

http://www.catnaps.org/islamic/geometry.html

http://www.catnaps.org/islamic/geometry2.html

My study of Phi and geometry can be seen from thread section #113 onwards on link below:-

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=233403&st=105

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Obviously MAESHOWE, isn't the only burial place in this region to know about geometry needed to show Winter Solstice at Sunset or Sunrise, there is NEWGRANGE in Ireland, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newgrange

These people were not stupid, hell they didn't have an accurate clock to be able to show shortest day, and thus Winter Solstice, sometimes it is beyond me how they knew in mathematics, i bow down to them!

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No real mathematical ability is required.

Just a couple of sticks and some stones with which to mark where the two stick aligned with the Sun at dawn each day for a year.

Harte

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Hi Harte,

Yes you have a point, but in order to show shortest day, is very difficult without an accurate clock, in any location the shortest day is observed by the Sun, and we are talking about a few minutes here, you try it out without an accurate clock, your comment is always involved in having an accurate clock to show shortest day, perhaps you are saying that Newgrange had an accurate clock?

Now you would be at odds with everyone here if thats what you are bringing forward for debate!

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So Harte,

Please blind us with your mathematical skills, how do you show the shortest day by a bunch of sticks? As the shortest day is measured by just few minutes and ancient man didn't have an accurate clock, sticks and stones matter, but tell me how ancient man determined the shortest day after all it is a puzzle without an accurate clock, it is determined by a few minutes regarding the length of the day, would you know that 21 December Winter Solstice was the shortist day when this is valued by a few minutes every day?

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No, the shortest and longest days are where the morning sun on the dawn horizon stops its southward (or northward) path and begins heading back northward (or southward.)

No clock is necessary.

The equinoxes are the days exactly halfway between the solstices. Again, no other device or knowledge is necessary.

Harte

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Again modern knowledge, these people used local time not time zones invented later with Gregorian or any other recent calendar, there must have been a lot of travel going on to determine this with other scholars of many different lands.....big time travel in valueing geometry and astronomy, and again earliest Platonic Solids found in Scotland, the basis of finding if the Earth is round is about geometry!!!!

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Again modern knowledge, these people used local time not time zones invented later with Gregorian or any other recent calendar, there must have been a lot of travel going on to determine this with other scholars of many different lands.....big time travel in valueing geometry and astronomy, and again earliest Platonic Solids found in Scotland, the basis of finding if the Earth is round is about geometry!!!!

No, the shortest and longest days of the year can be determined with great ease, as long as you have the spare time, two sticks and a goodly pile of markers like stones.

Did they know the solstices were the longest and shortest days?

Not that I'm aware of.

What they did know is that the winter solstice marks the day that winter begins to go away, a very happy time for the skin-clad, as you may have surmised.

Harte

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Hi Harte,

You have failed to note Platonic Solids crucial in debating Greek masters and geometry happened to show up thousand's of years before Plato in Scotland???

The biggest archaeology dig at the moment is near Maeshowe:-

http://www.orkneyjar.com/archaeology/nessofbrodgar/excavation-background-2/

We can see confusion about Venus and Sirius on link below:-

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/stross/papers/venusir.rtf

We think that Mayans were obsessed by Venus and Galactic Centre, we only know they had a very accurate calendar, please note i'm not trying to show doomsday about 21 December 2012, it may have some joining with Egyptians with belief, by travel.

A lot of people including myself think that the Mayan Calendar originated in Izapa, Mexico, this includes a lot of researchers, like below:-

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~izapa

Now think of Eratosthenes who was able to show the Earth was round, he comes from a long list of Greek masters, the concept of geometry is Platonic Solids, well sorry they turned up in Scotland long before Plato, oops!

http://www.eranet.gr/eratosthenes/html/eoc.html

I'm not even sure that Mayans were aligning to Galactic Centre, noted below:-

http://www.netplaces.com/guide-to-2012/the-galactic-alignment/the-discoveries-at-izapa.htm

I spend big money to be able to show alignment in Izapa on Winter Solstice, i have a lot of astronomy programmes that really cost money to show my research, where is your individual research that is multi-faceted Harte?

Indeed my research goes forward into other Sun-Calendars, as shown below, please look at icons at top of page!

http://wintertriangle.wordpress.com

I'm not sure about the Mayans, was there travel? Was religious concepts mixed by trade with Egypt? I don't know but all Sun Calendars produced have alignments to Egyptian Gods, look at alignments from Izapa for 21st December 2012.....don't try it on with saying i'm Doomsday, that isn't in my nature, by looking at calendars they all seem fixed to Alnilam and Sirius, as you don't produce astronomy graphs, i don't expect you to know why that is!

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3509&mode=view

You may have success in debate over one small point, however my research is multi-faceted, and involves all over the world!

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Hi Harte,

You have failed to note Platonic Solids crucial in debating Greek masters and geometry happened to show up thousand's of years before Plato in Scotland???

In the interests of disclosure, let me say first that I teach geometry to high schoolers - apprx. 160 of them, every weekday.

Now, Plato didn't invent geometry and the solids you're talking about weren't invented by Plato either. Pythagorus didn't invent Geometry either, and he lived a hundred years before Plato.

Plato was a philosopher that hypothesized that the shapes we see are mere shadows of "perfect" versions of these shapes that are found on some other, ideal, plane. The term "platonic solids" arises from this philosophy, not from any mathematics Plato may have done.

He didn't invent the dodecahedron.

Because that is a fact, I fail to see any significance whatsoever in what you're talking about.

Harte

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Hi Harte,

It doesn't impress me showing Pythagoras lived before Plato, i mention Platonic solids as it is named after him, but the starting block to geometry is Platonic solids, which we find wasn't invented by Plato or any Greek masters!

Let me make an observation, who ever you think you are, i doubt you are a worthy astronomer, every day in every way i show links coming forward from ancient times about astronomy, that is called THESIS, going all over the world to look for patterns regarding calendars and beliefs, if you are an astronomer please start producing astronomy graphs.

If you want to create thesis against mine, then on every point you need alternative thesis, through out history, that every day with my threads concerning history debate show patterns involved with Sirius and Alnilam, these patterns must have original point of progress through history, i don't think its Scotland, but just because i can't yet find the original, the pattern still exists in thesis!

You haven't shown yet thesis, and i have no idea if you are an astronomer, proof would be able to show astronomy diagrams, hell good ones cost money, over to you!

I'm in the middle of showing all modern Olympics going back to 1896, if you want to go modern with me, you know where to find me if you want to create thesis against!

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This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. Please stay on track, everyone.

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Hi Harte,

It doesn't impress me showing Pythagoras lived before Plato, i mention Platonic solids as it is named after him, but the starting block to geometry is Platonic solids, which we find wasn't invented by Plato or any Greek masters!

You mean that you have found this.

Everyone else already knows this. Plato never "invented" Geometry, and like I said, neither did Pythagorus.

In fact, the Ancient Egyptians, who predated Plato by a couple of thousand years, were actually quite good at geometry themselves, as were, I'm sure you'll find (if you look) the peoples of Sumer.

And sorry, but no. These solids are certainly not the starting point to geometry.

Another thing you might like to know. There is evidence that people were aware of the Pythagorean Theorem around the same time as the Scottish find you mentioned. In Carnac, France. Not that they knew of the concept of proof, which is what Pythagorus did (and why it is named for him, though IIRC it was proven in India even before that.) No, but they knew the outcome of it - the "Pythagorean Triples" like 3, 4 and 5, etc.

Let me make an observation, who ever you think you are, i doubt you are a worthy astronomer, every day in every way i show links coming forward from ancient times about astronomy, that is called THESIS, going all over the world to look for patterns regarding calendars and beliefs, if you are an astronomer please start producing astronomy graphs.

I'm not concerned with your opinion of my "worthiness." I'm just setting the record straight with real, factual information.

If you think it takes a clock to find the shortest day of the year, then I'd categorize your "theses" as feces. Of the bovine persuasion.

Harte

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All what i say needs trade and mixing of beliefs, i know about Delta T and how to show it, so i know how to show Mayan Calendar Winter Solstice 2012, without any strange thinking about end of world, i'm purely looking at areas of the world that had some learning that probably travelled further than we know, to gain further knowledge, and yes Egyptians did know Geometry, so how is it as far as we know that the Mayan Calender was probably founded on 15 degrees North that runs through Izapa, yet in truth this shows kinship with Egyptians and Alnilam and Sirius?

Obviously kmt_sesh i'm very interested in cutting edge science with my thesis, but again ancient beliefs seem to be applied in fractal study at source, i think even you would raise an eyebrow if i could show that ISIS Linear particle Accelerator was actually aligned to Sirius, and i can, as well as the Large Hadron Collider, there is something very strange going on with cutting edge technology coupled with ancient beliefs, but i know i might go off topic but thesis does matter!

http://www.isis.stfc.ac.uk/learning/video/inside-the-isis-linear-particle-accelerator11761.html

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Ok lets stay on topic about Sumerian astronomical knowledge, please scroll down to "Schematic Dates for the Equinoxes, the Solstices and the heliacal phenomena of Sirius on link below:-

http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/babylon/babycal_converter.htm

Hope this link works, if not let me investigate why not, i may have made a mistake with web-link.

Edited by monk 56

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This region was interested in Tishtrya, which is Sirius, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tishtrya

As far as modern Constitution of Iraq, the final modern establishment of the Solar Hijri Calendar in Iran and Revolution, these are aligned to either Sirius or Alnilam.

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The oldest attestations of the rosette of which I'm aware date to around the fourth millennium BCE and come from Egypt and Sumer. I am not aware of any evidence from these two cultures that the number of petals has any specific meaning—it's the overall motif that's significant. Of course, I cannot say the same for all of the other peoples who used to rosette, which included peoples all the way from Central Asia to the central Mediterranean.

Also, I cannot state that the rosette represents a lily or lotus in pharaonic Egypt, which had distinct iconography for such flowers and it tended to differ from the rosette.

I am saying that the symbols you talk about are not Rossetes but Lotuses.If you have any pictures of 4000 B.C. lotuses/rossetes i would be pleased if you can post them.

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I'm dying so my debate is now usual with old and disabled people but once with my files i was very accurate:-

http://en.wikipedia....to-Indo-Iranian

I may get into debate now, where i'm not accurate, we all know the factor about dying, keep it on thread, i'm not a great astronomer or mathematician now, i have too much wrong with me, however much of my research comes before this!

Now i'm a B**T**D, but don't allow that to conflict with earlier math with me, i'm now very near to meeting my maker. a lot more to come, however you value me now!

Edited by monk 56

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Please note my debating skills now are at fault, i cannot be sure they are the same concept as the most accurate calendar of ancient times being in South America, and i say sorry to Harte, he is accurate over Winter Solstice, it must be noted now i am badly disabled and clear insight is now not available as once was, but i still have my files, when you get old or badly disabled thus near to meeting your maker you get cantankerous, i'm afraid it is now where i'm at!

Please note I'm saying sorry to Harte, i have so much to tell but now am cantankerous, it happens when the time is near regarding exit as is with me, soon but not yet!

Obviously we can see probably Scotland wasn't part of world travel in ancient times regarding Winter Solstice, the same can't be applied to the Knowledge of Mayans, still the best Calendar that finishes on Winter Solstice 2012, this is more than looking at ancient sticks in the Earth to value 21st December and Winter Solstice!

Edited by monk 56

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Please note my debating skills now are at fault, i cannot be sure they are the same concept as the most accurate calendar of ancient times being in South America, and i say sorry to Harte, he is accurate over Winter Solstice, it must be noted now i am badly disabled and clear insight is now not available as once was, but i still have my files, when you get old or badly disabled thus near to meeting your maker you get cantankerous, i'm afraid it is now where i'm at!

Please note I'm saying sorry to Harte, i have so much to tell but now am cantankerous, it happens when the time is near regarding exit as is with me, soon but not yet!

I, too, am cantankerous, not that anyone would've noticed! :w00t:

Obviously we can see probably Scotland wasn't part of world travel in ancient times regarding Winter Solstice, the same can't be applied to the Knowledge of Mayans, still the best Calendar that finishes on Winter Solstice 2012, this is more than looking at ancient sticks in the Earth to value 21st December and Winter Solstice!

The Maya were very concerned with the apparent changes and patterns in the orbit of Venus. More than any solstice, it was Venus that determined the days of their calendar.

Observations of a planet's position in the sky are inherently more complicated than observations of where the Sun rises on the morning horizon.

Harte

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OK, i'm now not trying to respond to numerous other links and forums, i'm now ice cold, and will remain so in this debate, i've tried to heal, it matters not with some members, hence lets show my problems against others, some may view this as something they can show against me, be careful, we will go backwards. and forwards in time, philosophy with a calendar is prone to mathematics, so funny that Mayans looked at Winter Solstice 2012, please note no strange religious motives by me, it is all about mathematics, ssoo strange that all religion has issues with Winter Solstice!

Have you ever worked out odds about Winter Solstice regarding this date and mathematics?

Just because i show my address this means i'm passionate, it doesn't mean i'm right...it means long thread!

Moderators you have stopped me showing my address before, are you going to do it again? You may think it has risks, i know about them, someone must investigate Religion, i know i'm out of your scope....I'm willing to show, who are you to get in the way? Rule number one, whoever i am i'm honest with problems that i have now, we will get to my files later, that have a lot of factors, beyond my present, and slowly going on flavour!

http://2012forum.com...=4548&mode=view

Hell moderators it does matter, in fact to us all. in time i will show all research over calendars, there is a lot of superstition involved, yes i know about risk, don't stop my reveal above!

Edited by monk 56

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Firstly we must look at a puzzle, the ancient world was obsessed by dogs and wolves, much of our philosophy in the West has connections, and it extends to the East even when it is a different hemisphere, we see this by Capitoline wolf, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitoline_Wolf

The puzzle goes much further about the Dog Star Sirius, anyone that created an accurate calendar has used the dog Star, the most accurate calendar comes from the Mayans but so much has been destroyed by Catholic beliefs, we have small change in investigation, much of this has been wiped clean, mostly all went up in smoke!

Obviously the Mayans were interested in Venus, but a Sun calendar is all important, indeed if the Mayans showed connections to around 6th June 2012, a big cycle of Venus, then we woundn't here be debating?

Chinese valued Sirius as Heavenly Wolf, Many American tribe beliefs about Sirius are connected to a dog, we are missing ancient trade links regarding beliefs!

http://vega.lpl.arizona.edu/sirius/A1.html

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This is further enhanced by scrolling down link below to "TWO DOGS" belief of Cherokee tribe, and "CANOE RACE" belief of Chinook Tribe, link below:-

http://www.wwu.edu/skywise/legends.html

Although Iran isn't exactly Sumerian, it is near, so for the benefit of my India watchers please read links below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Iranian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_migration

The connection between ancient and modern is beliefs in Secret Societies, please note i'm not looking at just one!

The final adjustment of the Iranian Solar Hijri Calendar comes from 31st March 1925, strange, they start new year at the Vernal Equinox, why not use that date?

Babylonian and ancient Greek day marker applied being sunset of previous day on 30th March 1925, links and graphs below:-

Please scroll down to "Iran" below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Hijri

Graph below aligned to Capital Tehran, as Sun set, Sirius was culminating in centre of sky:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6598&mode=view

Iran's Theocratic Constitution comes from 1st April 1979, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Revolution

Astronomy graph beow, midnight day marker was chosen aligned from capital and aligned to Alnilam setting along horizon:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6418&mode=view

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If we want to get to closer beliefs regarding modern application of Sumerian concepts, we need to go no further than last constitution of Iraq, established on 15th October 2005, information and astronomy below, midnight application from Capital Baghdad, Sirius rising at midnight:-

http://2012forum.com...=6428&mode=view

Beliefs follow us through time, we need to get a grip beyond ancient philosophy and how it is carried forward, in this ancient travel must be a topic, although i look at secret society beliefs, i'm against all is controlled by just one, beliefs are prone to fracture, we can see this by the many fractures of Christian beliefs and is human nature, we need to look for origin of beliefs in Sirius and Alnilam, lets make it clear i haven't found a Solar Calendar yet that wasn't aligned to Sirius or Alnilam, not doubt members will laugh with me over my present very ill state, yes i'm a cantankerous old ill swear word, sometimes i don't see clarity now, but most of my research comes before this, given time i will get it right!

Next we will look at the most accurate calendar ever produced in detail, being Mayan!

Edited by monk 56

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Whatever Solar Calendars was produced in ancient times, Mayan was the most accurate, yes they followed Venus, it is difficult to find where they made observations from, but we have a mass of data to try.....this matters big time!

One true point is they followed Venus, one of many, link below to great Venus Cycle:-

http://www.timeandda...us-transit.html

To find where Mayans origin of observing the heavens must be a factor, DO YOU AGREE?

A lot of astronomers look to just below 15* degrees North, regarding Mayan origins, this must be explained in next thread reply by me to get any idea, we are on the hunt for original astronomical process of the solar calendar of Mayans, the most accurate calendar ever produced, one concept was Venus, but it involved a lot more than that!

Edited by monk 56

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