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LucidElement

What does this mean for America?

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first off ninjadude.. it doesn;t matter if someone makes 200,000 or more.. My brother makes more then that, but he is stressed supporting his family. Great, who cares if he worked hard to get where he was.. Many people work hard to achieve that goal.. yet the government wants to tax those who work harder to support those who want free handouts.. thats B.S.. say you happen to get a HUGEE raise, and you know make 220,00 a year, after all your hard work. you take your kids your wife and move to a great house that you worked for.. and WHOOPPSS all off a sudden, you get a letter saying YOUR TAXES HAVe gONE WAY UP.. we are now taking 55% of your check away... F-THAT!!!

If he's stressed supporting his family on 200K a year, he's doing it wrong. Trust me I know. I supported a family on that too in a notorious high cost of living area. The only reason I was stressed was because my ex kept stressing us with 4 car payments, wreckless spending on vacations and boats, bad investments, I lived MUCH better on 70K a year with full custody of the kid and no child support or alimony than I did when we made well over 200K. I could have afforded the tax hike on a 200K a year income had my ex not been such an idiot with our money.

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Oh please, National Healthcare Plan puts us on par with Canada. Not exactly the end of the world.

The national problem is not that we are getting a fairer system of healthcare but that half the country actually believes in the delusional conspiracy you just recited. I know at times the lunatic fringe is mentioned but it is more like a little under half of the population.

While some believe the sky is falling to treat healthcare as a service like public roads, everyone rich or poor can use the same roads, instead of as a private toll road, that is as a business, is not going to harm anything except the useless insurance companies.

Inusrance companies are exactly like tolls in the middle of the road. And if we let you guys have it 100% all your way you would privatize roads.

But no matter how much one attempts to suffocate the Spirit of Compromise it will resurrect itself more times than Jesus on Easter, the Energizer Bunny, or the 1980s.

Please explain to me how 0bama care even remotly puts us on par with Canada? Compromise? Granting the government powers not granted to it by the constitution isnt compromise. Its a criminal violation. Funny, you seem to be a fairly inteligent person in the manor you speak. Problem is no matter how you express yourself, you dont seem to be informed on this subject at all.

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What do you mean that's not what America was??? Are taxes a new concept for you? You really have no clue, do you.

What do you hope to accomplish by neverending nagging about this? America hasn't been doing well concerning health care, that's obvious. Do you think nobody should do anything and it would just magically work out itself? Or all the ppl in need would just die and that would be your idea of "problem solved" ?

The health care system didn't work, that's why both Candidates during the election had their version of a new health care system, which were pretty much the same, coincidentally.

Where the hell is your pride to create a truly Unified United States of America? Why would you think you're worth anything more than anybody else?

Everyone chips in, PERIOD.

We have the best Health Care System in the world dude! And maybe you should clue up...half the people in this country don't even pay taxes!!

I was done until I re-read the part in red...now I'm p***ed off...don't lecture me! You don't know me like that! The United States of America doesn't need to be Re-created into a Communist Hierarchy...truly unified? Good god man...where did you learn all that crap? Wait...the public school system...never freaking mind...you sir, are a tool of the government...that's all you'll ever be...unless you wise up to what capitalism is...if you think you know...explain it..in your own words...yeah, explain to us all in your own words how capitalism works. There, go for it...either that or shut up!

Edited by joc
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We have the best Health Care System in the world dude! And maybe you should clue up...half the people in this country don't even pay taxes!!

Where as usual, you are wrong. The US has some of the best hospitals in the world, but hardly anybody not super rich can afford them (in fact they are full of rich foreigners). That is not the same as the best healthcare system. If we talk medicine available to all the best would be France and the US is in 37th place (see WHO ranking)... which is pretty sad for the richest country in the world.

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Where as usual, you are wrong. The US has some of the best hospitals in the world, but hardly anybody not super rich can afford them (in fact they are full of rich foreigners). That is not the same as the best healthcare system. If we talk medicine available to all the best would be France and the US is in 37th place (see WHO ranking)... which is pretty sad for the richest country in the world.

Yeah, and if we are talking about food available to all, maybe you could use the example of North Korea...equal rice portions for everyone!

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Yeah, and if we are talking about food available to all, maybe you could use the example of North Korea...equal rice portions for everyone!

Well be happy, there are over 12,000 Rolls Royce registered in the USA, you must really be enjoying your drive home.

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P.S... Joc and Wolverine... I think you guys are very educated, not because you speak on behalf of one side, but because you've read both sides of the story and understand where this country (hopefully) will not go.

Thanks man, I'm trying to stay in the middle. I believe the people who live here are what's most important. We do not need new forms of taxation (Democrats), and we also do not need to engage in more foreign wars (Republicans). We need to work together and find a solution that won't take money out of everyone's pockets, esecially the hard working middle class. Taking from the rich is also not fair either, and it ends up costing the middle class their jobs through outsourcing and layoffs. I realize that there are many people who are out of work, who also don't have health insurance, and if we could actually get Republicans and Democrats to work together for all of our best interests by finding mutually acceptable solutions, we would all be much better off. The trend following of the uninformed public is what upsets me. Common sense has gone right out the window in a lot of ways. Every single American has to turn off the TV and actually think about things.

Edited by WoIverine
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Well, regarding the original topic "What does this mean..." It means business as usual-endless bickering, demonizing, Congressional gridlock, finger-pointing, blame, and divisiveness. Then the big-money machines will crank up for the next election and billions more dollars will be thrown away on slimy advertising instead of being put to use for something worthwhile.

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you get a letter saying YOUR TAXES HAVe gONE WAY UP

That is the way of taxation in our country. those who are most able to afford it, pay more. I'm sorry that you just now figured this out. How old are you?

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We have the best Health Care System in the world dude!

no we really don;t. You can get the best health care in the world if you pay for it. But it's NOT the best system. Far from it.

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We have the best Health Care System in the world dude! And maybe you should clue up...half the people in this country don't even pay taxes!!

I was done until I re-read the part in red...now I'm p***ed off...don't lecture me! You don't know me like that! The United States of America doesn't need to be Re-created into a Communist Hierarchy...truly unified? Good god man...where did you learn all that crap? Wait...the public school system...never freaking mind...you sir, are a tool of the government...that's all you'll ever be...unless you wise up to what capitalism is...if you think you know...explain it..in your own words...yeah, explain to us all in your own words how capitalism works. There, go for it...either that or shut up!

Wrong. If we had the best healthcare in the world, I woudn't be going through what I'm going through now.

Let me clue you in a bit. I went for more than 10 years, working the entire time, and had NO health insurance. Now, I have to have a roughly 25K surgery which will likely lay me up for 6 weeks with a week of that in the hospital. Thankfuly I do have health insurance now even if it sucks, but I'm still going to end up owing about $2500 I don't have. Ya, awesome health care. Had I been able to afford to see a doctor, and was offered insurance for those ten years, my upcoming surgery might have been easier than what I"m going to go through in a couple of weeks.

Good health care here in the US? Sure, if you have insurance. If you don't, you plain don't go to the doctor unless you're taken there via ambulance with no other choice.

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Wrong. If we had the best healthcare in the world, I woudn't be going through what I'm going through now.

Let me clue you in a bit. I went for more than 10 years, working the entire time, and had NO health insurance. Now, I have to have a roughly 25K surgery which will likely lay me up for 6 weeks with a week of that in the hospital. Thankfuly I do have health insurance now even if it sucks, but I'm still going to end up owing about $2500 I don't have. Ya, awesome health care. Had I been able to afford to see a doctor, and was offered insurance for those ten years, my upcoming surgery might have been easier than what I"m going to go through in a couple of weeks.

Good health care here in the US? Sure, if you have insurance. If you don't, you plain don't go to the doctor unless you're taken there via ambulance with no other choice.

I wish you nothing but wellness and good tidings on your upcoming surgical experience. :wub:

And you are absolutely correct...no argument about Health Insurance...without it you are screwed! With it you are still screwed! What I am talking about is the Health Care not the ability to pay for it...but let's face it...if you can't afford it...you are screwed so, really, what the hell good is the best Health Care Treatment Facilities on the face of god's grey earth if you aren't able to access them when you need them?

But there are a lot of good ideas toward finding solutions for that which do not put the Government in charge of it all. ObamaCare doesn't solve anything...it just enslaves the masses.

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If I'd had Obamacare 10 years ago, I wouldn't be facing the type of surgery I am now. The end.

Know what it would have costed me to buy my own insurance when I had none (and that would have been for only 65% coverage) .... $670 Per MONTH. A good deal more than my car payment. And I couldn't give up the car, I needed a good working car to get back and forth to my JOB so I could have a place to live and food to eat. With that coverage, the surgery I'm giong to have would have costed me about $7000 out of pocket. Something I couldn't have afforded. So, I never had insurance.

So something has to give. Obamacare is a start. It's not perfect, it might not even be right, but it's SOMETHING. On Obamacare, my total out of pocket expenses for a year would have been significantly less that $670 a month and I woudn't be facing a $7K bill after treatment. If that dings the insurance companies, so be it, they'll have to find another way to make gobs of money.

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If I'd had Obamacare 10 years ago, I wouldn't be facing the type of surgery I am now. The end.

Know what it would have costed me to buy my own insurance when I had none (and that would have been for only 65% coverage) .... $670 Per MONTH. A good deal more than my car payment. And I couldn't give up the car, I needed a good working car to get back and forth to my JOB so I could have a place to live and food to eat. With that coverage, the surgery I'm giong to have would have costed me about $7000 out of pocket. Something I couldn't have afforded. So, I never had insurance.

So something has to give. Obamacare is a start. It's not perfect, it might not even be right, but it's SOMETHING. On Obamacare, my total out of pocket expenses for a year would have been significantly less that $670 a month and I woudn't be facing a $7K bill after treatment. If that dings the insurance companies, so be it, they'll have to find another way to make gobs of money.

When all the insurance companies are out of business...and the government insurance is the only game in town...the costs will go up higher than you can imagine...and the services that you so desperately needed maynot even be available...not for $7000 or even $70,000...

Saying that ObamaCare is something that is better than nothing is just wishful thinking...I hope I am wrong...but I think..you and everyone else in these United States is going to be in for a very, very rude awakening. And let's face it...that is why Obama won. Because (no offense) people like you were afraid that what they thought was Affordable HealthCare would be stripped from them...It isn't going to be affordable and you ain't gonna like what you get...so get your surgery now while you still can before this Monster kills the very Golden Goose of Health Services that you need.

All that being said...as previously mentioned...I agree with you...but ObamaCare completely and forever exacerbates to the nth degree a problem that could have been solved in a responsible way....but the SlaveMasters of the Democrat Party know just how to manipulate and pull the strings of America's Masses to get them where they want to go.

Edited by joc
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Saying that ObamaCare is something that is better than nothing is just wishful thinking...I hope I am wrong...

You are wrong, costs are going to go down and access is going to increase.

Also about the US having the best health care, not overall. Look at the average life expectancy, infant mortality rate, and mortality amenable to health care rates for countries and compare then to ours.

Preventative healthcare makes a difference as does preventative maintenance on an automobile.

http://en.wikipedia....nal_comparisons

Edited by Chasingtherabbit

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Before Obamacare I've seen people get outright denied care(Only way to get around that was for it to be an emergency, aka an ambulance ride), outright denied insurance, people get insurance find they have an ailment that will be around all their lives then dropped because they were to risky for insurance companies.

Imagine getting a physical which is cheap finding out you might need a major surgery then getting dropped from your insurance when the doctors report it to the insurance company. I wouldn't call that insurance I would call that getting paid for nothing. That was how the system was.(This happened quite often.)

I'm actually quite happy not paying 75 bucks an aspirin(Seriously that crap tallies pretty quickly and puts a huge dent on your coverage, I couldn't even tell if it was the hospital charging it or the insurance company just claiming it was just to justify me paying out more out of pocket) and I can actually see what is being paid out now instead of fighting for the complete bill(A list of what I actually was paying out for), instead of seeing only the line of total bill.

It's holds both the hospital and insurances companies to make sure they liable for their actions. It's not a perfect system by far but it is a step in the right direction.

I am not against paying taxes at all if the cash is spent correctly. (key word here is correctly). I see it as an investment to my country. I want people to have their basic needs met so they in turn can be able to help out and improve our country. The idea of no taxes/less taxes is horrifying if you really think about it and is more detrimental to the growth of our country. I help the old because they helped me out when I was young(Good luck to any child trying to pay their own way since a ton of parents cannot do so themselves), and I will help the young now so when I get old they will help me. That isn't socialism, it's called protecting my own butt. I think of it as insurance.

People need to look at the whole picture sometimes.

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Joc, go read up. You're SO wrong about it. Nevermind, don't even bother. You've probably never been seriously ill, working full time or more, and without health care.You'll never understand.

Oh, and my 25 year old daughter is going to have health care for the first time since she was 18. She couldn't afford it previously and she's worked full time since she was 17! But a kid who makes $14 an hour can't afford $670 a month for half-assed coverage.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Joc, go read up. You're SO wrong about it. Nevermind, don't even bother. You've probably never been seriously ill, working full time or more, and without health care.You'll never understand.

Oh, and my 25 year old daughter is going to have health care for the first time since she was 18. She couldn't afford it previously and she's worked full time since she was 17! But a kid who makes $14 an hour can't afford $670 a month for half-assed coverage.

'Scuse me! Go read up? Really! Are you freaking serious!? Go read up?? Hmmm...that is really interesting...No one in Congress read the Freaking BIll and you are telling me...go read up?? Please!

Jinxdom said:

Before Obamacare I've seen people get outright denied care(Only way to get around that was for it to be an emergency, aka an ambulance ride), outright denied insurance, people get insurance find they have an ailment that will be around all their lives then dropped because they were to risky for insurance companies.

Yes...and ObamaCare hasn't even begun yet...and you don't really have any idea what is going to happen when it does begin...

...I want my ObamaPhone, I want my ObamaBucks, I want my ObamaCare...

This is why the guy was re-elected...

I am hereby forever mending this old saying: ...it now will read.... You can fool Half of the people ALL of the time...

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I think what all this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining minority. Pandering to a declining minority is always going to marginalize you politically.

I think what this means is that everyone is in a minority of some kind, and picking on a minority to vilify is stupid because all those other minorities realize that they will be the next victim on the list.

I think what this means is that a grouping which respects the individuality of the electorate will always have broader support than those who expect conformity.

I think what this means is that the sizable minority of American poor have finally realized that trickle down economics is a lie peddled by those who have sent all of Americas assets to offshore bank accounts.

I think what this means is the venal form of Conservative Republicanism been espoused by one party is a dying faction and the sooner they realize that we are not all white,middle/upper class married heterosexuals, the sooner they will be re-elected.

That just my thoughts though :tu:

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius

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I think what all this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining minority.

I would rephrase this statement: I think what this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining MAJORITY. Once upon a time, the Majority of Americans were indeed White Christian Conservatives...then the demographics of the country changed and America became a Majority of Christian Conservative Ethnic Groups. Then the demographics of the country changed again and America became a Majority of Diverse Religious and Ethnic Conservatives. Then, once more, the demographics changed and America became a Majority of Diverse Religious and Ethnic Liberals. Conservatives of all beliefs, and races, became a minority.....

...the fear of course is that the demographics will change again and America will be a Majority of Slaves of the State with no Power, no Freedom and No Hope to ever recover from that state.

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I think what all this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining minority. Pandering to a declining minority is always going to marginalize you politically.

Someone recently said: ‘Republicans have the same problem as the Beach Boys. Their fans are dying.’

But doing some kind of panic, obvious, transparent, shullbit, 180 -like Sean Hannity did two days after the election when the demographic statistic was in- on an issue that the conservatives has been pounding on forever, is just so idiotic and obvious that one cant even laugh at it.

I'm amazed that he could keep a straight face, or tone.....or scratch that, nothing that guy says or do amazes me.

He is such a tool, but I think we will see a lot of these kind of 180´s in the near future. We are in for a joyride in comedy soon.

The next GOP nominee might be a white Latino/African American in-vitro, who is a cross-dressing in a manly but yet female way, anti drug but pot-smoking, gun-toting peace lover, atheistic-evangelical Muslim Sikh Buddhist, bi-metro-sexual cowboy who tries to pander to everyone and everything just to get ahead.

Fox News host Sean Hannity said on Thursday that he's "evolved" on the issue of immigration. ...

The conservative commentator said given the support President Obama received from Hispanic and female voters in Tuesday's election, the GOP needs to evaluate its priorities and message. ...

Hannity has long opposed immigration reform proposals that would provide a pathway to residency for those who have entered the country illegally, deriding it as "amnesty." But in his post-election comments, he suggested the GOP had to move on the issue to keep from losing the fastest-growing bloc in the country.

Evolved???...really??....does he even believe in evolution?

[media=]

[/media]

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I would rephrase this statement: I think what this means is that White Christian conservatives are a declining MAJORITY. Once upon a time, the Majority of Americans were indeed White Christian Conservatives...then the demographics of the country changed

...the fear of course is that the demographics will change again and America will be a Majority of Slaves of the State with no Power, no Freedom and No Hope to ever recover from that state.

'

I thought in the beginning the demographic of the America was native Americans, then -by some means- `the demographics of the country changed´ on that issue, and then the real `slaves of the state´were brought over there by force.

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'

I thought in the beginning the demographic of the America was native Americans, then -by some means- `the demographics of the country changed´ on that issue, and then the real `slaves of the state´were brought over there by force.

There was no America until the White Europeans created it...and btw...I wish they had never come...Instead of typing on a platic keyboard, I'd be dancing over the Buffalo I just shot with an arrow.

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The question is - can an old dog learn new tricks. The British Conservatives have tried, but it seems that they just can't leave their old minority hating habits alone. The Conservatives are dragging themselves apart as they try to rediscover their glory days as Margaret Thatchers lap dogs.

Its very difficult for a Conservative to accept the reality of the world as it currently is, it goes against everything they actually believe to be true. Bush Jnr and his Neocon budies simply tied to brazen it out and redefine reality in their own image - see where that got them (Iraq).

Br Cornelius

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Please explain to me how 0bama care even remotly puts us on par with Canada? Compromise? Granting the government powers not granted to it by the constitution isnt compromise. Its a criminal violation. Funny, you seem to be a fairly inteligent person in the manor you speak. Problem is no matter how you express yourself, you dont seem to be informed on this subject at all.

hey preacher, i understand somewhat where you are comng from on this.. from what i grasp i def agree with you. But can you re-explain what you were saying.. the part "granting the government powers not grandted to it by the constitution isnt comprise"... i guess the "powers not granted to it" is throwing me off. thanks bud.

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