A rather obscure Bassoon Posted November 7, 2012 #26 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fine...financially we are owned...but what about the social issues? I am for freedom and equality for everyone. That is why I am a liberal. I think gays should have the same rights as everyone else and I think minorities should be taken into consideration. Banks do not play a role in that. Here lies the problem,issues such as Gay Marriage and abortion should not be decided by Government,they are personal issues that should put down to personal choice. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #27 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fine...financially we are owned...but what about the social issues? I am for freedom and equality for everyone. That is why I am a liberal. I think gays should have the same rights as everyone else and I think minorities should be taken into consideration. Banks do not play a role in that. So then you should be voting libertarian. Cause as far as social issues go, dems give you nothing but lip service. I mean seriously, what really changes on those fronts from one administration to the next? You think 0bama is for liberty and freedom? We are talking about a man who wilfully attained the power to wipe you off the planet with no process or recourse what so ever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted November 7, 2012 Author #28 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Here lies the problem,issues such as Gay Marriage and abortion should not be decided by Government,they are personal issues that should put down to personal choice. Yet the Republicans fight to make it a government issue. Fighting to ban gay marriage is putting it into the governments hands. Ironically, the Republicans are about less government invovlement... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunn Posted November 7, 2012 #29 Share Posted November 7, 2012 2 things. Blacks, latinos, and other minorities will always vote for the democrat. ( And it will continue since their numbers are increasing ) Since there are now more takers than makers, they will vote democrat aswell. ( And it will continue since their numbers are increasing ) The minority, has now become the majority. Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted November 7, 2012 Author #30 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So then you should be voting libertarian. Cause as far as social issues go, dems give you nothing but lip service. I mean seriously, what really changes on those fronts from one administration to the next? You think 0bama is for liberty and freedom? We are talking about a man who wilfully attained the power to wipe you off the planet with no process or recourse what so ever. I do not vote Libertarian because I do not believe Free Market Capitalism is the right way to go. I think a free market oppresses freedom. I am not talking about freedom of the consumer, I am talking about freedom of the workers or those that are getting the benifits of capitalism. The Middle East is not getting freedom and the global south, Jamacia for example, is not getting freedom and wealth from the system. The child workers and slaves did not get freedom. Rational self interest and an unregulated economy is not about freedom and liberty and I think the premise that an economic system could even exist without government involvement is no plausible. There has never been a free market system and government has been involved dating back to the cotton trade. I am not saying the Dems don't have problems, but they most closely align with what I believe. My ideal system would be a social democracy, which is what they have in the Scandinavian countires. It is a highly regulated captalistic economy and also personal freedom. But I live in America, in the present, and I have to deal with have I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommunitarianKevin Posted November 7, 2012 Author #31 Share Posted November 7, 2012 The minority, has now become the majority. Sounds good to me. That is why it is never okay to oppress a minority or live by majority rule...because at some point, you will find yourself in the minority... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted November 7, 2012 #32 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Fine...financially we are owned...but what about the social issues? I am for freedom and equality for everyone. That is why I am a liberal. I think gays should have the same rights as everyone else and I think minorities should be taken into consideration. Banks do not play a role in that. Exactly the point is equality and freedom for all. The idea is that we have choices, not be held hostage to old ideas and ideology. I had no doubt that Obama would be re-elected.Because of this re-election we get a clear picture on what we could improve as a whole and that is equality and opportunity and freedom for all. For all our talk of standing united we are divided and that is what needs to be addressed. We need to collectively learn to compromise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted November 7, 2012 #33 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Most of all we learned that as long as we don't know which Republicans we are voting for and they keep sending post-truth candidates (that is, who changes his tune according to the audience) those who bother to think about their vote (i.e. the 18% in the swing states) will not give them a chance. And what we also learned, disappointingly the 3d parties got nowhere near 5%, which means business as usual in Washington. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted November 7, 2012 #34 Share Posted November 7, 2012 So then you should be voting libertarian. Cause as far as social issues go, dems give you nothing but lip service. I mean seriously, what really changes on those fronts from one administration to the next? You think 0bama is for liberty and freedom? We are talking about a man who wilfully attained the power to wipe you off the planet with no process or recourse what so ever. As a person there will be times when you have to have clear boundaries and a back bone and Obama has shown himself to be such a person. There will be times you have to make a decision and no one will agree, but you have to move forward regardless.. This is called maturity. Even then you can make mistakes and sometimes as humans we make really bad ones, if this happens you pick yourself up and you man up and learn from it. This too is called maturity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #35 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I do not vote Libertarian because I do not believe Free Market Capitalism is the right way to go. I think a free market oppresses freedom. I am not talking about freedom of the consumer, I am talking about freedom of the workers or those that are getting the benifits of capitalism. The Middle East is not getting freedom and the global south, Jamacia for example, is not getting freedom and wealth from the system. The child workers and slaves did not get freedom. Rational self interest and an unregulated economy is not about freedom and liberty and I think the premise that an economic system could even exist without government involvement is no plausible. There has never been a free market system and government has been involved dating back to the cotton trade. I am not saying the Dems don't have problems, but they most closely align with what I believe. My ideal system would be a social democracy, which is what they have in the Scandinavian countires. It is a highly regulated captalistic economy and also personal freedom. But I live in America, in the present, and I have to deal with have I have. Lets set aside for a second wether or not free market capitalism would be better for the country. Hut they dont align with what you believe at all. You are being played for a fool. These people just tell you what you want to hear then go on and do often times do exactly the oposite, if they do anything to address said issue at all. If you want a government that has any chance what so ever of actualy regulating the market, honestly making a level playing field, then every last Dem and Rep thats been elected (aside from a very small handful, and even them im not sure about) has to go. They are owned by the very corperations you speak of here. You cant take a single step tward freedom till you get that. You didnt win anything today. You only stepped further into the illusion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted November 7, 2012 #36 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Most of all we learned that as long as we don't know which Republicans we are voting for and they keep sending post-truth candidates (that is, who changes his tune according to the audience) those who bother to think about their vote (i.e. the 18% in the swing states) will not give them a chance. And what we also learned, disappointingly the 3d parties got nowhere near 5%, which means business as usual in Washington. I'd say if one is Independent do not give up, keep fighting, movements always begin with one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah65 Posted November 7, 2012 #37 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Something else I just thought of. Hopefully we learned a very powerful lesson...education is worth spending money on. If the Repubs are not pleased that people did not vote rationally and intelligently...perhaps they should look in a mirror. They have supported cutting educations budgets, bigger classrooms and less extracurricular activity. They apparently supported federalizing education rather than leaving it in the hands of the state. Sure, there needs to be a body in the Fed to allocate funding to the states, but they need to stay out of the curriculum and let the states do what they did just fine for many years. If you thought the American people voted poorly...maybe it's because they were not taught any better...and whose fault is that? Just throwing that out there...I think intelligent, educated and rational minded people would go my way...the Libertarian way...but hey...I know we didn't get our 5% and I have to live with that for 4 years....see you in 2016! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #38 Share Posted November 7, 2012 As a person there will be times when you have to have clear boundaries and a back bone and Obama has shown himself to be such a person. There will be times you have to make a decision and no one will agree, but you have to move forward regardless.. This is called maturity. Even then you can make mistakes and sometimes as humans we make really bad ones, if this happens you pick yourself up and you man up and learn from it. This too is called maturity. I dont understand what you are trying to say to me here Sherapy. 0bama has done nothing but the will of his overloards. What decisions has he made that you think he has considered himself better educated now? He is going about with business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted November 7, 2012 #39 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Lets set aside for a second wether or not free market capitalism would be better for the country. Hut they dont align with what you believe at all. You are being played for a fool. These people just tell you what you want to hear then go on and do often times do exactly the oposite, if they do anything to address said issue at all. If you want a government that has any chance what so ever of actualy regulating the market, honestly making a level playing field, then every last Dem and Rep thats been elected (aside from a very small handful, and even them im not sure about) has to go. They are owned by the very corperations you speak of here. You cant take a single step tward freedom till you get that. You didnt win anything today. You only stepped further into the illusion. Preacherman, part of being an informed voter or a critical thinker is you know how to sift through the BS (you know there will be some in politics) and then you pull out the facts(reality) via research, getting out inot your communities and see what is actually going on, then look at all sides. Go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #40 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Preacherman, part of being an informed voter or a critical thinker is you know how to sift through the BS (you know there will be some in politics) and then you pull out the facts(reality) via research, getting out inot your communities and see what is actually going on, then look at all sides. Go from there. Yes Sher, YES. You are half way there to understanding what Im saying. Its nearly ALL BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted November 7, 2012 #41 Share Posted November 7, 2012 That Forida should be made to vote the day before. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for the GOP and they'll ditch all the hardcore social conservatives. Or break apart and form separate parties. Think the US could benefit from having more than two parties run with a solid chance to win states. Shake things up a bit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A rather obscure Bassoon Posted November 7, 2012 #42 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Just been listening to Mary Matalin on CNN,no wonder Romney lost. Donald Trump apparently nearly blew his Combover off.... Edited November 7, 2012 by shaddow134 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted November 7, 2012 #43 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I think I'll stick with natural foods which have been proven safe over millenia...vs. genetically altered food which is relatively new. I think everyone should have the right to know what they are eating. Why not? Food has been genetically altered since humans developed agriculture 12,500 years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #44 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Food has been genetically altered since humans developed agriculture 12,500 years ago. Not like it is today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted November 7, 2012 #45 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Food has been genetically altered since humans developed agriculture 12,500 years ago. Quite so, but never before has a plant been altered with a poison producing gene from a fish or a reptile, which opens a completely new can of worms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #46 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (NaturalNews) Eating genetically modified corn (GM corn) and consuming trace levels of Monsanto's Roundup chemical fertilizer caused rats to develop horrifying tumors, widespread organ damage, and premature death. That's the conclusion of a shocking new study that looked at the long-term effects of consuming Monsanto's genetically modified corn. The study has been deemed "the most thorough research ever published into the health effects of GM food crops and the herbicide Roundup on rats." News of the horrifying findings is spreading like wildfire across the internet, with even the mainstream media seemingly in shock over the photos of rats with multiple grotesque tumors... tumors so large the rats even had difficulty breathing in some cases. GMOs may be the new thalidomide. Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/037249_GMO_study_cancer_tumors_organ_damage.html#ixzz2BYyMLICS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted November 7, 2012 #47 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Quite so, but never before has a plant been altered with a poison producing gene from a fish or a reptile, which opens a completely new can of worms. I like my fish corn scaly. (NaturalNews) Eating genetically modified corn (GM corn) and consuming trace levels of Monsanto's Roundup chemical fertilizer caused rats to develop horrifying tumors, widespread organ damage, and premature death. That's the conclusion of a shocking new study that looked at the long-term effects of consuming Monsanto's genetically modified corn. The study has been deemed "the most thorough research ever published into the health effects of GM food crops and the herbicide Roundup on rats." News of the horrifying findings is spreading like wildfire across the internet, with even the mainstream media seemingly in shock over the photos of rats with multiple grotesque tumors... tumors so large the rats even had difficulty breathing in some cases. GMOs may be the new thalidomide. Learn more: http://www.naturalne...l#ixzz2BYyMLICS This is off topic and that study was horribly flawed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #48 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Here are some quotes from the researchers: "This research shows an extraordinary number of tumors developing earlier and more aggressively - particularly in female animals. I am shocked by the extreme negative health impacts." - Dr Michael Antoniou, molecular biologist, King's College London. "We can expect that the consumption of GM maize and the herbicide Roundup, impacts seriously on human health." - Dr Antoniou. "This is the first time that a long-term animal feeding trial has examined the impact of feeding GM corn or the herbicide Roundup, or a combination of both and the results are extremely serious. In the male rats, there was liver and kidney disorders, including tumors and even more worryingly, in the female rats, there were mammary tumors at a level which is extremely concerning; up to 80 percent of the female rats had mammary tumors by the end of the trial." - Patrick Holden, Director, Sustainable Food Trust. Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/037249_GMO_study_cancer_tumors_organ_damage.html#ixzz2BYzWZ7IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted November 7, 2012 #49 Share Posted November 7, 2012 This is off topic and that study was horribly flawed. How so? And according to who? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaginarynumber1 Posted November 7, 2012 #50 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) How so? And according to who? There's an entire thread on here about it. It was bad science. Bad statistics, tumor prone rats, poor control groups, etc. http://www.unexplain...o This is the last I'll say of it here to not derail this thread further. Edited November 7, 2012 by Imaginarynumber1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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