Bigfoot: real or myth? -- Why? -- Why not?

[Sakari]

Yes I was serious about what you have read.

If you're willing to search, I'd be interested in what you read on breeding populations.

http://www.planta.cn/forum/files_planta/1452_1197363256.pdf_132.pdf

There is a start. A lot of what I started to search for was about the " lochness Monster "

...years ago.......That is where I started reading on " breeding populations ".

[DefenceMinisterMishkin]

I guess it's possible in remote areas

Never say never..

[scowl]

I guess it's possible in remote areas

What remote areas? We mowed down nearly all of the forests around the PNW at one point. We've had gigantic fires destroy a large percentage of the forests over the past century. A rare species like Bigfoot would have been seen a lot more often.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

That I agree with. It is what it is. A story about an animal that has not been proven to exist. An animal which leaves no carcasses. An animal that cannot be photographed clearly. An animal intelligent enough to stay hidden yet makes loud noises and slowly walks out in the open. An animal who survives without leaving a mark of its existance on the ecosystem.

You cannot blame those who require evidence before believing. Do you believe in the Loch Ness Monster or would you require evidence of such a beast? How about the various dinosaurs said to exist in different rain forests? Aliens visiting Earth?

.. . and, an animal that can't be trapped or captured, an animal that cannot be shot at or hunted with a bow/arrow as Indians who claim of BF's existence for 50,000 years could have done, .... etc,

Many evidences of BF *exist*, but it is impossible many times to prove a negative, which means in this case, there are no evidences that show bigfoot does *not* exist - except for fictitious arguments that *always* give BF only the powers/abilities of known species.

Face it, if that animal is real, we know *nothing* about it.

And if it had the ability to transcend dimensions, as some American Indians think, then what?

Your arguments then go right out the window.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

It exists. I've seen it. I've even seen the rare green Jello with chunks of fruit inside.

Unfortunately the peat makes Loch Ness so murky that the limited light makes for very little plankton.

I had put you far from the middle based off of a couple of your comments like - I believe everything is as likely as it is unlikely. There are some on here who believe everything until you prove to them it doesn't exist.

Oh, sure, sure!

I've heard these arguments made by you conspiracy theorists before!

If you can't take pictures of it or capture it, I don't believe it!

The very thought. *green* jello! Huh!

j/k lol

Edited July 7, 2014 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[Sakari]

ndians who claim of BF's existence for 50,000 years could have done, .... etc,

And if it had the ability to transcend dimensions, as some American Indians think, then what?

The claims about American Indians claiming Bigfoot has existed is false. Made up by the " white man "......It is not true. Including the American Indians thinking " it " can transcend demensions.

None of that is true. You will only find that information on the Bigfoot sights, and from Bigfoot believers. Trying to make it real, to back up there claims.

And, that has been discussed thouroughly also....With links.

Before you ask......Here is plenty.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=104878

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sakari

[Sakari]

P.S.

The name " Sausquatch " was made up in 1920....Give or take a couple years. Was never even a Indian name for a Bigfoot.

J. W. Burns .....Inventor of Sausquatch.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Sakari

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

The claims about American Indians claiming Bigfoot has existed is false. Made up by the " white man "......It is not true. Including the American Indians thinking " it " can transcend demensions.

None of that is true. You will only find that information on the Bigfoot sights, and from Bigfoot believers. Trying to make it real, to back up there claims.

And, that has been discussed thouroughly also....With links.

Before you ask......Here is plenty.

http://forums.randi....ad.php?t=104878

Let see if I have this right, Sakari.

The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out.

Here's Kathy: (emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Hairy Man

I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred:

Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation

Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man

Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man

Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants

Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage

Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man

Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak

Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant

Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man

Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant

Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster

Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster

Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster

Creeks - Honka - Hairy man

Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant

Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster

Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants

Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants

Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal

Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster

Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man

Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man

Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man

Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants

One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is.

-------

Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol

You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred'

Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster".

You Ok, man?

I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts?

Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something?

I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol

[Sakari]

Let see if I have this right, Sakari.

The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out.

Here's Kathy: (emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Hairy Man

I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred:

Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation

Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man

Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man

Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants

Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage

Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man

Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak

Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant

Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man

Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant

Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster

Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster

Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster

Creeks - Honka - Hairy man

Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant

Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster

Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants

Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants

Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal

Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster

Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man

Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man

Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man

Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants

One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is.

-------

Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol

You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred'

Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster".

You Ok, man?

I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts?

Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something?

I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol

I new there was a reason I had you on ignore...

That link said " just a start "...

Sure, send me links that show Indians believe in Bigfoot, the same one the white man invented.....And no links from Bigfoot or Crypto sites.

[+DieChecker]

I was under the impression that many Native American groups did have a wild man myth. Even Piney (Who is NA from New Jersey) has said so on these forums, IIRC.

Is this a Bigfoot site or a Native American site?

http://www.native-languages.org/legends-bigfoot.htm

Ba'wis (Tsimshian Indian Bigfoot)

Boqs (Bella Coola Bigfoot)

Bush Indians (Alaskan Athabaskan Bigfoot)

Chiye-Tanka (Sioux Indian Bigfoot)

Choanito/Night People (Wenatchi Indian Bigfoot)

Hairy Man (Yokuts Indian Bigfoot)

Kohuneje (Maidu Indian Bigfoot)

Lariyin (Dogrib Indian Bigfoot)

Lofa (Chickasaw Indian Bigfoot)

Matah Kagmi (Modoc Indian Bigfoot)

Maxemista (Cheyenne Indian Bigfoot)

Na'in (Gwich'in Indian Bigfoot)

Nakani (Dene Indian Bigfoot)

Nant'ina (Tanaina Indian Bigfoot)

Nik'inla'eena' (Koyukon Indian Bigfoot)

Omah (Hupa Indian Bigfoot)

Sasquatch (Coast Salish Indian Bigfoot)

Seeahtlk (Clallam Indian Bigfoot)

Shampe (Choctaw Indian Bigfoot)

Siatco (Chehalis Indian Bigfoot)

Skookum (Chinook Indian Bigfoot)

Ste-ye-hah'mah (Yakama Indian Bigfoot)

Stick Indians (Northwest Coast Bigfeet)

The Woodsman (Athabaskan Indian Bigfoot)

[+DieChecker]

I don't know much about the Northwest Coast stuff but I'm familiar with the Coastal Algonquian "Game Guardian" legends. The John White watercolors show the Rappahannock or Palmunky ceremony with the masks on poles. He also portrays a Chawanoc (Eastern Shawnee) village with the dance circle.

The Lenape called him the Mii'singk haliikan or "Living Stone Face" he is portrayed as hairy but not really big. I was taught that he was real and was probably the basis for the Jersey Devil legend ( the "Devil Dance" as recorded by early settlers)

As for the real Bigfoot, My father, uncle and myself had experiences while bushwacking but there is no sense discussing them here because I can't prove or disprove it.

Lapiche

From the thread....

Bigfoot, just a mythical creature, or real? (2010)

[Sakari]

I was under the impression that many Native American groups did have a wild man myth. Even Piney (Who is NA from New Jersey) has said so on these forums, IIRC.

Is this a Bigfoot site or a Native American site?

http://www.native-la...nds-bigfoot.htm

Diechecker....

Copy / paste those names, one at a time into google....

Tell me what sites come up?

[Sakari]

Let see if I have this right, Sakari.

The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out.

Here's Kathy: (emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Hairy Man

I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred:

Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation

Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man

Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man

Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants

Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage

Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man

Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak

Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant

Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man

Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant

Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster

Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster

Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster

Creeks - Honka - Hairy man

Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant

Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster

Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants

Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants

Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal

Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster

Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man

Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man

Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man

Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants

One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is.

-------

Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol

You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred'

Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster".

You Ok, man?

I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts?

Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something?

I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol

I new there was a reason I had you on ignore...

Earl of trumps....Never had you on ignore, thought you were the dude with the three toes as an avatar.....My bad. Sorry.

[+Hammerclaw]

Let see if I have this right, Sakari.

The poster in some other forum who composed the post you sent me to, quotes a user named 'Hairyman', and she is US Forest Service Archaeologist Kathy Moskowitz Strain, who soon has a book coming out.

Here's Kathy: (emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Hairy Man

I'm assuming when you say east of the Mississippi that you are including the headwaters as well, so here is a list for your use. The list is not all there is, just what picked out quickly from a list of several hundred:

Tribe - Traditional Name - Translation

Alabama-Coushatta - Eeyachuba - Wild man

Algonkian - Yeahoh- Wild man

Caddo - Ha'yacatsi - Lost giants

Cherokee - Kecleh-Kudleh - Hairy savage

Cherokee - Nun’ Yunu’ Wi - Stone man

Chickasaw - Lofa - Smelly, hairy being that could speak

Chippewa - Djeneta` - Giant

Choctaw - Kashehotapalo - Cannibal man

Choctaw - Nalusa Falaya - Big giant

Choctaw - Shampe - Giant monster

Comanche - Mu pitz - Cannibal monster

Comanche - Piamupits - Cannibal monster

Creeks - Honka - Hairy man

Iroquois - Ot ne yar heh - Stonish giant

Iroquois - Tarhuhyiawahku - Giant monster

Iroquois/Seneca - Ge no sqwa - Stone giants

Menomini - Manabai'wok - The Giants

Micmac - Chenoo - Devil cannibal

Mosopelea - Yeahoh - Monster

Ojibwa - Manito - Wild man

Seminole - Esti capcaki -Tall man

Seminole - Ssti capcaki - Tall hairy man

Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants

One thing I would like to accomplish in this thread is to examine some of these myths and traditions critically and see how well they correlate to what we are commonly told of bigfoot. One should keep in mind though that there is nowhere near a consensus on what bigfoot is.

-------

Sakari, <grin>, "can we talk?? lol

You choose a poster from another forum,, who to me is not 'known', and you see him being totally contradicted by this Archeologist for the US Forest Service. Kathy Strain listed 24 tribes east of the Mississippi that have some kind of name for their BF but says that that is just a quick sample, she actually has 'several hundred'

Yet you choose to believe, wholeheartedly, "The Poster".

You Ok, man?

I mean, do you even admit this is AT BEST, dueling experts?

Is there something about this Kathy you don't like or something?

I would get my own links here but before I go on a fishing expedition, I would like to see how you react because if this Kathy can't convince you, I won't even bother lol

Every culture has it's own bogeyman. None of the tribes Lewis and Clark encountered warned them about bigfoot. They did warn them about Grizzly Bears. They shook that warning off thinking they could handle them, they had the most modern weapons, so no problem. After a few encounters with Brown Bears their confidence was shaken because they were so hard to kill. They'd hit'em with five, six, seven shots, some through the heart some through the brain and they'd just keep coming after them. A griz ran one party into the river, another ran some men up a tree. Finally, in one of the journals Clark writes; "I believe the curiosity of the men in respect to this animal is pretty much satisfied." However, No bigfoot, or mention of bigfoot was ever encountered on the expedition.

[Kassekoe99]

I would like to think BF is real. It's a possibility, just like anything else. How many new species of animals do we discover every year that were in plain sight? But then things happen to make me a skeptic. I was camping with my horses this past weekend in the Uwharrie National Forest where there have been many "BF encounters". I'm sitting at camp one night and the neighbor in the woods somewhere has a mule who starts to bray. Holy crap it sounded like a Sasquatch! Then a mule from the other side of camp in the distance brays back. So next time you BF hunters are in Uwharrie and you hear that BF calling It's probably just the mule at site 12 calling out.

[+Hammerclaw]

I would like to think BF is real. It's a possibility, just like anything else. How many new species of animals do we discover every year that were in plain sight? But then things happen to make me a skeptic. I was camping with my horses this past weekend in the Uwharrie National Forest where there have been many "BF encounters". I'm sitting at camp one night and the neighbor in the woods somewhere has a mule who starts to bray. Holy crap it sounded like a Sasquatch! Then a mule from the other side of camp in the distance brays back. So next time you BF hunters are in Uwharrie and you hear that BF calling It's probably just the mule at site 12 calling out.

Thanks for your candor. I broke out laughing when I got to it sounded like a sasquatch! No one knows what bigfoot sounds like, so any strange noise to a bird of passage or other tenderfoot could be interpreted as a hairy eight foot cryptid. A howler monkey's cry would totally freak people out if played in the woods!

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I new there was a reason I had you on ignore...

That link said " just a start "...

Sure, send me links that show Indians believe in Bigfoot, the same one the white man invented.....And no links from Bigfoot or Crypto sites.

The "white man" invented an all encompassing name, not the creature. that's all.

Indians did not have a common name because they had no way to communicate 30,000 years ago or so.

We could be talking apples and oranges here. If in your mind not having a common name means they do not have the same belief, then fine. In my mind they have a similar belief, just a name for their BF in their own tongue. that's all.

[+DieChecker]

Diechecker....

Copy / paste those names, one at a time into google....

Tell me what sites come up?

You did not answer my question. Is the site I posted a fringe site or actual NA site?

Are going to say Piney is a liar also?

[Insanity]

http://www.planta.cn/forum/files_planta/1452_1197363256.pdf_132.pdf

There is a start. A lot of what I started to search for was about the " lochness Monster "

...years ago.......That is where I started reading on " breeding populations ".

How did this article contribute to your conclusion?

[Myles]

I don't doubt that some tribes had names for a scary, hairy humanoid. Just like our boogeyman.

They also had numerous other creatures in their lore. Cannibal dwarfs, mer-men, skin walkers, owl lady's and flying heads are just a few.

I just do not find these stories evidence of bigfoots existence.

[LDJ]

Nothing is certain..

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Here is a really decent article showing the various tribal beliefs of a BF-like creature throughout the US.

http://www.bfro.net/legends/index.htm

Pre-Columbian and Early American Legends of Bigfoot-like Beings

Gulf

Algonkian

Keres

Penutian

Yukian

Chimakuan

Hokan-Coahiltecan

Tonkawa

Karankawa Kuteni

Iroquoian

Wakashan

Timucua

Tanoan

Aztec-Ianoan

Caddoan

Siouan-Yuchi

Salish

Home Page

Introduction

(From : Traditional Attitudes Toward Bigfoot in Many North American Cultures, By Gayle Highpine)

It is crystal clear that most NA Indian tribes have some kind of belief in the Big Hairy Man.

They may all have their own name in their own tongue, but it is crystal clear they have had their beliefs in the big hairy man going way back in time, long before the white european settlers got here.

Enjoy!

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I don't doubt that some tribes had names for a scary, hairy humanoid. Just like our boogeyman.

They also had numerous other creatures in their lore. Cannibal dwarfs, mer-men, skin walkers, owl lady's and flying heads are just a few.

I just do not find these stories evidence of bigfoots existence.

Not a problem, I understand. I was never trying to use the existence of Indian beliefs in BF as proof that BF exists.

Sakari claims the Indians do not have a belief in BF, - although, I don't know why he says that, and all I posted were informations to show he is wrong, most Indian tribes do have their oral tradition expressing their belief in a big hairy man. Nothing could be clearer. There are several links of learned researchers giving their findings of the North American Indian beliefs in a BF like creature.

[+DieChecker]

Here is a really decent article showing the various tribal beliefs of a BF-like creature throughout the US.

http://www.bfro.net/legends/index.htm

The problem with that article will be that it is posted at BFRO.net.

Just like if you link to an article about how a comet wiped out the dinosaurs on a creationist website, people will dismiss it due to the linked source, regardless of the original source.

Edited July 8, 2014 by DieChecker

[Sakari]

I would like to think BF is real. It's a possibility, just like anything else. How many new species of animals do we discover every year that were in plain sight?

That are 6 to 8 feet tall and weigh up to 800 lbs?.......And in civilized/populated areas?