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Big Bad Voodoo

Our Ancestors, the Acoustical Engineers

38 posts in this topic

When priests at the temple complex of Chavín de Huántar in central Peru sounded their conch-shell trumpets 2,500 years ago, tones magnified and echoed by stone surfaces seemed to come from everywhere, yet nowhere. The effect must have seemed otherworldly, but there was nothing mysterious about its production. According to archaeologists at Stanford University, the temple’s builders created galleries, ducts, and ventilation shafts to channel sound. In short, the temple’s designers may have been not only expert architects but also skilled acoustical engineers...

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov/03-our-ancestors-acoustical-engineers

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How fascinating.

Acoustic "engineering" is not something simple, I know this for a fact.

Anyway it's kinda weird if you look into frequencies and vibration with past civilizations. Very very interesting. Brilliant post. :tu:

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@Coffey

Raimondi Stela came from same site from same people. Chavin. (And to continue previous debate with some members-they are called culture)

That stela is unique because it was perfectly cut with "stone tools". And yes its from granite and they didnt have diamond saw.

(Or they did).

Seems that Chavin acoustical engineers were part of this great civilization. Beside acoustical engineers we have great masons. Realy great.

Chichen Itza is also same example of sound architecture connection.

Xraimondistele.jpg

Edited by the L
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I am simply amazed at modern man's ability to not see the obvious. The ancients left numerous

and varied evidence of a very high science and technology but rather than seek answers to how

they could accomplish such feats we instead dismiss them as having no meaning beyond the ef-

fects of trial and error or the determination of barefoot bumpkins. Everywhere we look there are

fantastic artefacts in stone and then we choose to believe that everything they did must have been

in stone despite the inability of most materials to survive.

I believe the answers are staring us in the face. Science is not technology and it's not the state of

knowing everything. Science at its heart is simply metaphysics and observation. It is an attitude

far more than it is a doctorate. Science is the attitude of ignorance and the ability to observe pro-

perly. Ancient people simply invented a science based on observation and metaphysics rather than

experimentation and observation. They had no choice because they lacked laboartory equipment

and most modern technology. Accoustics is exactly the kind of science (and art) at which they might

excell given time. I don't understand why modern man marginalizes the ancients since they were our

forefathers who lifted the species out of caves and built the cities (some of which still stand). It was

not religious fervor and superstition that invented agriculture and made the observations required

to invent the calender.

It would seem modern people are far more superstitious than the ancients were.

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Cladking because we dont act like students. If we want to learn something we must be students. I agree. Philosophy is easily debunked yet all start with it and end. There wouldnt be science without it. Thought experminets, dialogues...even Logic is brench of philosophy. We are far from understanding ancient people.

About agriculture. Who say that agriculture is a good thing. Maybe all went wrong with it. Maybe it was devolution. Homo sapiens before 30 000 years is same as it is now. He didnt read Origins and Newton but maybe they were advanced othervise. For example, agriculture.

Read carefully.

6a00d8341cedee53ef00e5505d7dbd8834-800wi.jpg

This guy name is Hira Ratan Manek or Hirachand Ratanashi.

He is not founder but expander of solar yoga or sun gazing.

He survived 411 days without food. Loose minimum weight. He was observed by doctors in his atempts.

Second time when he was doing NASA observed him.

We are 80 % water. We eat because those 20%.

He said that when our mind accept it body adopt. He also stressed that construction workers spent 3000 calories and eat 1500 calories. So where rest came from? Sun.

Jesus walk 40 days in desert. Maybe he used sun. Many stigmatas dont eat at all. Bleeding and live. Recent Kid Biddha didnt eat nothing for months.

So question is raised is agriculture destroyed humanity? In north hemisphere during winter we have Blues disease. In Scandinavia. I heard that doctors treat patient with strong light emitet at them.

Eye sight can be corrected with laser. Sun is like laser.Hepatitis is cured with Sun.

40 minutes in sunset for 6 months and you are healed.

I will not say that Lizards/Shapechangers/Aliens like David Icke introduce agriculture but its interesting that first sites are in mountains rather then in valleys.

Bottom of line-If he coud survive year without food just doing yoga in Sun...then truth is much bigger then we are thought.

Edited by the L

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Who said that Akhenaten didnt practice sun yoga.

akhenatenandnefertiti.jpg

akhenaten4worshipingaten.jpg

Akhenaten_as_a_Sphinx_%28Kestner_Museum%29.jpg

stela%20of%20akhenaten%20and%20nefertiti%201.jpg

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I just wonder for what they used sound for? Maybe beside rituals, healing? ...?

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http://en.wikipedia...._Bahadur_Bomjon

Bomjon does not appear to break his meditation to eat or drink.

Skeptics point out that claims of surviving after several months fasting are unsubstantiated[16] as he was sometimes unobserved between dusk and dawn; they also claim that, besides the lack of proof, such a feat would be physically impossible. Bomjon was observed remaining at the tree at least during the daytime, though no one was allowed to approach him too closely. Under such circumstances, he could have eaten at night when no one could have witnessed his doing so.

Some supporters believe that claims of inedia are less relevant than Bomjon's undisputed ability to remain nearly motionless in the same position day after day, with no regard for extremes of weather including cold winter and monsoon rains. For example, American writer George Saunders visited Bomjon and observed him through a single night, and was impressed by Bomjon's perfectly still stature, even during an evening climate which seemed unbearably cold to the much better clothed journalist.[17]

In December 2005, a nine-member government committee led by Gunjaman Lama watched Bomjon carefully for 48 hours and observed his not taking any food or water during that time. A video recording was also made of this test from a distance of 3 meters.[18][dead link] The Nepali government planned a more careful scientific study, but the study was never carried out.

In 2006, Discovery Channel showed a 45-minute documentary titled The Boy With Divine Powers. One of the aims was to establish whether Ram was indeed abstaining from all sustenance, water included, by filming him continuously for four days and nights. On their first attempt, in January 2006, the film crew was required to stay outside a guarded barbed-wire fence, and their camera's infrared capabilities did not pick up evidence of a body at the base of the tree where Bomjon sat during their non-stop recording. On a second attempt a few weeks later, however, the film crew was able to film Ram continuously for 96 hours, day and night, during which time he did not change his position and did not drink any fluids or eat any food. As Discovery Channel's commentator concluded: "After 96 hours of filming, Ram has defied modern science by continuing his meditation and remaining alive." According to scientists on the documentary, an average person would be expected to die from kidney failure after four days without drinking any fluids (although cases of inedia lasting for a whole week have been observed). The boy showed no signs of classical physical deterioration caused by dehydration. A close inspection by the film crew of the area around the tree where Ram was sitting revealed no hidden food supply or water pipes.[19]

In 2008, Min Bahadur Shakya of the Nagarjuna Institute of Exact Methods in Kathmandu, stated that Buddhist priests have yet to investigate Ram

Edited by the L

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No back to sound.

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http://news.bbc.co.u...ature/72494.stm

New research suggests that the ancient stone circles and burial mounds of north west Europe may have been designed to act as giant loudspeakers to amplify drums being played during rituals

Scientists have now levitated small live animals using sounds that are, well, uplifting.

http://www.livescien...ll-animals.html

Edited by the L

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Three decades ago astronomers realised that the Sun vibrates like a giant musical instrument with well-defined notes or frequencies....

Distant star makes music

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1994038.stm

So could it be that Sun was player and we audience? They only needed magnifier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12507032

Like a musical instrument, the lower the pitch, the bigger the star. That means that the sounds are thousands of times lower than we can hear

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@Coffey

Raimondi Stela came from same site from same people. Chavin. (And to continue previous debate with some members-they are called culture)

That stela is unique because it was perfectly cut with "stone tools". And yes its from granite and they didnt have diamond saw.

(Or they did).

I wonder why you think this had to be done "with stone tools."

The Chavin were reasonably accomplished matallurgists.

Harte

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I wonder why you think this had to be done "with stone tools."

So what do you think they done it with copper tools?

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So what do you think they done it with copper tools?

Probably. There's no reason they couldn't have, that is.

Copper absolutely can be used to carve granite. Hardness is no issue in carving a grainy stone like granite.

Harte

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Probably. There's no reason they couldn't have, that is.

Copper absolutely can be used to carve granite. Hardness is no issue in carving a grainy stone like granite.

Harte

You do realize that all historians on the world agrees that copper tools like axes for examples are used for show? Hiting tree with copper axe and axe is destroyed.

Not to mentioned granite.

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So, you think an axe is the only thing that can be made from copper?

The Egyptians used copper to saw right through granite. Did it ruin their "axes?"

Harte

Edited by Harte

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So, you think an axe is the only thing that can be made from copper?

The Egyptians used copper to saw right through granite. Did it ruin their "axes?"

Harte

Im not expert on Egypt. (And Maya)

But Chavin defentely didnt cut granite with copper.

Hey Harte, what do you think what is harder wood or granite? Just curious.

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Im not expert on Egypt. (And Maya)

But Chavin defentely didnt cut granite with copper.

Hey Harte, what do you think what is harder wood or granite? Just curious.

How does that matter?

I told you hardness is not a factor. Sandstone has a higher Moh's hardness scale number than granite. Which would you think is easier to carve with copper?

Granite can be carved with copper. I didn't say it was easy to do so.

Harte

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Granite can be carved with copper. I didn't say it was easy to do so.

Hardness on Mohs scale doesnt matter true. Because all geologists agrees that Granites is even harder because of structure.

Please Harte I dont want that this become abother no diamond saw thread.Im sure that copper was made for show. All historians are. Its just for people who need explaination for all that used it as explantion for cutting granite.

Copper is 2,5 on Mohs scale. Granite (even is harder then that) mix of 7 and 6 and 2,5.

Can you cut steele with copper? :w00t:

Cmon. Its pointless discussion. Trust me Harte, ancient metallurgy is my field and I can asure you theres no chance to cut granite with copper.

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And please, idea that ancient have a time is aburd and bizzare. They even have to work more then we are.

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Hardness on Mohs scale doesnt matter true. Because all geologists agrees that Granites is even harder because of structure.

Please Harte I dont want that this become abother no diamond saw thread.Im sure that copper was made for show. All historians are. Its just for people who need explaination for all that used it as explantion for cutting granite.

Copper is 2,5 on Mohs scale. Granite (even is harder then that) mix of 7 and 6 and 2,5.

Can you cut steele with copper? :w00t:

Cmon. Its pointless discussion. Trust me Harte, ancient metallurgy is my field and I can asure you theres no chance to cut granite with copper.

What does metallurgy have to do with it? Granite is grainy. Anything that can remove these grains - even if it's one grain at a time, can be used to carve granite.

Copper was used. Get over it.

Here's a diorite vase carved with copper in Egypt - 3200 years before there even was any Chavin culture in South America:

432px-Diorite_Vase_Neqada_II_Predynastic_Ancient_Egypt_Field_Museum.jpg

The various granite obelisks in Ancient Egypt were likely carved with bronze. But the granite surface itself can be "softened" through the use of fire, and probably was, which accounts for the incredible precision of the hieroglyphs the Egyptians carved up and down the sides of the obelisks.

Perhaps a similar method was used by the Chavin to accomplish such fine work with only copper chiseling.

There are many ways to solve a problem. You don't have to assume that some dude walked up to a chunk of granite and started whacking it with a chunk of copper.

Harte

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Hi Harte,

Metallurgy has all with it. Because metallurgy is linked with early use of metals.

Im not convienced in copper story. Or better I dont believe in that theory. If can it be done by copper ,which is funny to even wrote , lets see preformance.

Im aware of diorite vase and granite vases.

Existence of those vases doesnt proove per se that they were done with copper. Its your believe. Same as Budhists belive in previous lives.

If you said meteoric iron I would say okay but on copper we must disagree.

Edited by the L

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Hi Harte,

Metallurgy has all with it. Because metallurgy is linked with early use of metals.

Yes, metallurgy deals with metals.

But you yourself mentioned shaping granite using stone tools. Where's the metallurgy in that?

Harte

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Yes, metallurgy deals with metals.

But you yourself mentioned shaping granite using stone tools. Where's the metallurgy in that?

Harte

Because Im aware that stone tools were in use to time steel. Stone tools were in use a lot till iron appears.

Stone tools are cca 7 on Mohs scale so when Bronze and Iron fails ancient start use stone tools again. Bronze is 4 4,5 and Iron is 5. You there isnt much difference between Iron and Bronze.

On other hand microlite is usually 7. Same as steel. What do you think that ancient didnt aware of that?

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