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jugoso

Is This the End of the War on Drugs?

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The director of a landmark documentary which chronicles how the current penal approach has resulted in social disaster says the greatest legacy of the US elections may be shifting attitudes towards illegal narcotics.

Last week was a momentous week, the beginning of the end, perhaps, of a national depravity – the "war on drugs". The voters of Colorado and Washington passed measures to legalise marijuana, amounting to local shifts, for the moment. So we shouldn't delude ourselves that the country will be transformed overnight, but the public thinking, the public spirit isbeing transformed. Finally, there is a growing realisation that this "war" has produced nothing but a legacy of failure. And who wants to be associated with failure?

Let's be clear what we're discussing here. Not in question is the ravaging impact drugs can have on individuals – too many of us know people who have suffered in this way. But we need to see addiction for what it is – not a criminal matter but a public health issue, and a huge social issue, especially for the young. In fact, instead of a "war on drugs", better to call it a war on children.

http://www.guardian....alise-marijuana

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No, it is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the end.

The latest at the Supreme Court this will be cashed in again.

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So I live in Washington and voted yes on I-502 for legalization

However, I have no illusions that it will actually become legal because I've never thought that the feds would turn a blind eye or even take a wait and see attitude. I did it on principal alone (especially given I don't and have never partaken in its use medically or recreationally).

A few things are going to happen in upcoming months, I think. The Federal government is going to deny Washington and Colorado federal funding for all kinds of programs and services. The first to go will be highway projects. There's precedents for this kind of thing... like when the feds got all states, in the 90s, to raise their legal drinking age to 21. It was very effective. Even with the tax revenue from marijana, it won't be enough to cover the deficit from missing federal dollars.

Second, the feds are going to force the closure of all bank accounts for marijuana related businesses. They can do this beause banks are FDIC insured. They will also deny other kinds of federal insurance to the states. Again, there's precedents for this as well, as seen on a few occasions in California regarding medical marijuana.

The DEA doesn't have the man power to come in and start raiding state run growers, distributors and sellers, they'll apply financial pressure, no question.And I think it's financial pressure the states won't be able to make up wth the taxes raised from the sales.

As of December 6th (in just a few short weeks) in Washington, you'll be able to carry an ounce of marijuana on your person legally. This is the one thing I don't think the feds are going to persue. The users. In fact, the two largest counties in Washington (King an Pierce) have already dropped 173 possession cases which were pending in Washington. (no one is in jail for possession of less than an ounce and there hasnt' been for years).

Truthfully, King (Seattle) and Pierce (Tacoma) counties haven't really busted anyone for possession in a very long time. Quite some time ago, possession was dropped to the lowest priority offense by police and DAs and about all that could happen was they'd take it away, tell you to put it away or ignore it all together. The 173 cases that were dropped were cases where someone was popped and charged with two crimes, for example DUI and possession or assault and possession... just the possession portion of the charges were dropped.

My advice? If you're planning a tourism gig to Seattle and Denver for some legal pot, don't pack your bags just yet. Really.

Oh, and I read an article this week that Columbia, Bolivia, Mexico, and Honduras are already calling international treaty foul. Curious don't you think? LOL.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Yea miss said it as well as it could be said. Till we elect people in the federal government who are for liberty, the war on drugs will continue at outragous expenses to the tax payer. 0bama lied about not busting down on state run pot distributer's. He is just as bad as any of them.

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Oh, and retribution from the Feds will be swift. We'll see it in the order of months, not years. Because if they don't do something quick, like the next two years, Oregon, California, New Mexico, and possibly a couple of east coast states like Maryland and Vermont, will model initiatives after the initiatives in Colorado and Washington and pass legalization as well. Then it'll be too overwhelming for the Feds to deal with.

Also, on a more puzzing note, Washington also had a referendum on the ballot to allow same sex marriage... marijuana legalization passed with a much wider percentage than same sex marriage! Although same sex marriage did indeed pass, but it was close. I wanna know which homophobes voted for pot, but not marriage. LOL.

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Yea miss said it as well as it could be said. Till we elect people in the federal government who are for liberty, the war on drugs will continue at outragous expenses to the tax payer. 0bama lied about not busting down on state run pot distributer's. He is just as bad as any of them.

I've NEVER heard him say that. I've always understood that he'd side with the feds on state run pot distribution.

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I'm not sold Obama is pot friendly and neither are some advocates.

I read a good article on a marijuana advocate site on Obama and the legalization of pot, but can't put my fingers on it again. I'll keep looking.

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Public opinion is changing, but it always changes slowly. I see alcohol as being the biggest drug problem. Maybe once the marijuana lobby has the same clout as the alcohol industry things will change more quickly.

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Nope far from it.The the harder narcotics will always be controlled by goverment to a certain extent. It brings in waaay to much renevue(with no hard paper trail) for it to stop completely. For the government it has to be one of the best investments they ever had. If you don't think government gets a piece of the pie just look in to the CIA's history a bit. Pot is hardly worth the trouble for government to be concerned with seriously so after a ton of yacking on it will be legalized and taxed so they stop wasting manpower and cash on it and can focus on controlling the harder substances.

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Nope far from it.The the harder narcotics will always be controlled by goverment to a certain extent. It brings in waaay to much renevue(with no hard paper trail) for it to stop completely. For the government it has to be one of the best investments they ever had. If you don't think government gets a piece of the pie just look in to the CIA's history a bit. Pot is hardly worth the trouble for government to be concerned with seriously so after a ton of yacking on it will be legalized and taxed so they stop wasting manpower and cash on it and can focus on controlling the harder substances.

if pot gets legalized it will be just a question of time for the rest.

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if pot gets legalized it will be just a question of time for the rest.

I don`t see that happening. Alcohol is legal but not moonshine.

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I don`t see that happening. Alcohol is legal but not moonshine.

moonshine is alcohol, and mostly not legal because the makers don't have a alcohol license. You can buy uncut 99% alcohol at any pharmacy, with flavor alteration (tax free) or without (taxed). That is the same as moonshine.

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I'm not sold Obama is pot friendly and neither are some advocates.

I read a good article on a marijuana advocate site on Obama and the legalization of pot, but can't put my fingers on it again. I'll keep looking.

I've read that too. I remember reading that a LOT more people have been arrested and convicted of pot possession/use in the last 4 years then under Bush, the 4 years before that. If anything Obama lit a fire under some people to go after pot use/sales.

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if pot gets legalized it will be just a question of time for the rest.

I don't think so actually. As someone who doens't use pot, never will, I voted for the legalization of pot in my state. However, I would NEVER vote to legalize any other recreational/street drugs. Most people I know who aren't pot users, but still voted for this initiative feel the same way I do.

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I've read that too. I remember reading that a LOT more people have been arrested and convicted of pot possession/use in the last 4 years then under Bush, the 4 years before that. If anything Obama lit a fire under some people to go after pot use/sales.

Enforcement at the local level is local, t doesn't have much to do with what Obama says or who's in office. Sometimes it comes down to the city level. In Seattle, no one has been arrested or prosecuted for marijuana possession (under an ounce) in over 5 years when a group of concerned citizens got the police and DA to move it to their least priority of concern.

Fact is, the DEA doesn't have the man power to enforce wtihout the cooperation of the local enforcement... and they haven't had that cooperation in my county for a very long time.

EDIT: Wow, it's actually been well more than 5 years since it was moved to least priority of enforcement.. it's been TEN years! I just verified with a friend who spearheaded that movement. I can't believe it's been that long!

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Hardly - cigarettes and booze are legal, but yet there's still a multi-billion dollar smuggling business in the US.

As soon as those tax stamps start going onto that weed and Hippy Joe can no longer sell the cheeb he grows in his basement, there will be smuggling.

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And there's not now? Oh some might attempt to grow in their homes, although under the Washington law, that will still be illegal unless you have a medical card.The after tax price the state is looking at, is only $2 more than what the going street rate is pre gram. Most people would rather pay that than take on the annoyance of growing it themselves or buying it from black market gangsters/dealers. This is one reasons the cartels are having a cow now.

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Smuggling is not the central problem, it is the criminalization of a behaviour which about a quarter of the population indulges in.

That is a moral rather than a practical approach to society - which fails because we do not share the same moral framework.

The only moral compass which really works is does a behaviour harm others. The current war on drugs is immoral by that standard.

Br Cornelius

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Hardly - cigarettes and booze are legal, but yet there's still a multi-billion dollar smuggling business in the US.

As soon as those tax stamps start going onto that weed and Hippy Joe can no longer sell the cheeb he grows in his basement, there will be smuggling.

I agree. There will always be smuggling as long as the marijuana can be grown and processed somewhere else for less. But smuggling is a crime even if all you are smuggling is produce or sausage. Smuggling is not a drug crime, it is a tax crime.

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Smuggling is not the central problem, it is the criminalization of a behaviour which about a quarter of the population indulges in.

That is a moral rather than a practical approach to society - which fails because we do not share the same moral framework.

The only moral compass which really works is does a behaviour harm others. The current war on drugs is immoral by that standard.

Br Cornelius

Just curious where that 25% figure comes from? AFAIK, actual repeat users is much less then 10%. Perhaps the 25% includes even those who have only used it once?

Here is what I found online...

11.5% of Americans (more than 25 million) have smoked marijuana in the last year.
22.6% of high school seniors in the US used marijuana in the past 30 days compared with 18.7% who smoked cigarette, according to 2011 data.

http://www.backslashonline.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1504:marijuana-facts-and-statistics&Itemid=195

It is in the Main a activity of the Young. The youth don't actually (usually) have a strong moral framework. I'm not going to decriminalize something and add it on top of Alcohol and Tobacco, just because a bunch of pot-head kids want it to have a legal buzz at their Friday night parties. Discounting the Youth (up to 24 these days), what is the real percentage of adults who use pot regularly. Saying 25% is just propaganda that is bias and un-referenced.

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I asked my daughter, who's 25, how many of her friends smoke pot... it's not many. They're the Dare generation. However, I'm almost 46, I'd say a good 25-30% of my friends who are educated, professionals, responsible family people, indulge on a relatively regular social basis. Others, indulge when offered. Very few of my friends would say absolutely no when offered.

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Once..... I smoked a joint with George W. Bush. I told him we were smoking Kush but he kept insisting it was Northern Lights.

lol

Edited by acidhead
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Just curious where that 25% figure comes from? AFAIK, actual repeat users is much less then 10%. Perhaps the 25% includes even those who have only used it once?

Here is what I found online...

http://www.backslash...tics&Itemid=195

It is in the Main a activity of the Young. The youth don't actually (usually) have a strong moral framework. I'm not going to decriminalize something and add it on top of Alcohol and Tobacco, just because a bunch of pot-head kids want it to have a legal buzz at their Friday night parties. Discounting the Youth (up to 24 these days), what is the real percentage of adults who use pot regularly. Saying 25% is just propaganda that is bias and un-referenced.

Even if we accept your lesser figure of 10% my point is equally valid. What is even more significant is if that 10% of youth enter the criminal justice system and prison because of this habit. This will generally cause them to become career criminals and expose them to harder and more dangerous drugs and behaviour. This is one of the primary reasons why America has one of the highest rates of youth imprisonment in the world. This cannot be good for American society as a whole.

As people have pointed out, occasional Pot use is probably highest amongst the professional classes - which puts to bed the notion that it is debilitating and detrimental to society.

Br Cornelius

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This is why Ron Paul wanted to take control from the Federal system and keep such decisions solely to the state. The states are more than capable of choosing the right laws.

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No, it's certainly not the end of the drug prohibition.

A very good thing, but not the end by any means, as other posters have noted.

The feds guard their prohibition jealously, and Obama and Holder have demonstrated that time and again. It provides much illegitimate authority, and huge stimulus for the Prison Industrial Complex.

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