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al-amiyr

The Qur'aan Cosmological Model

276 posts in this topic

Two articles up for debate I wrote for a local newspaper in 1991.I have expanded considerably upon them since that time. I have discussed the subject elsewhere and always receive from posters enlightening opinions. Hope to receive valuable comments here as well.

Article One

The Qur’aan Cosmological Model is based upon two verses of The Qur’aan. The Qur’aan is composed of about 6300 verses. These two Qur’aanic verses contain within themselves the plan or cosmological structure and design of the entire universe from before T = 0 (Time was equal to zero) until again when T = 0 (Time will again be Zero) and after.

The two Qur’aanic cosmological verses state as follows;

Qur’aan Chapter 021:030

-that the entire universe i.e. the sun, moon, stars and all other extra-terrestrial phenomena as well as the earth became ‘a singular mass’ in higher dimensional time reversed.

-that ‘the singular mass’ underwent a splitting apart as observed at present time.

Qur’aan Chapter 021:104

-that the universe would continue in its splitting apart phase until it had reached a maximum splitting apart or maximum expansion.

-that the universe would one day again contract and become ‘a singular mass’.

-that ‘the singular mass’ would again undergo a splitting apart to form another universe.

The implications of the analyses of the data derived from the above two Qur’aanic cosmological verses are earthshaking.

Firstly, it took thousands of years, thousands of the most intelligent men and women who ever lived, studying many branches of knowledge to reach the same conclusion as chapter 021:030 of The Qur’aan, the first mentioned cosmological verse that states that the universe was ‘a singular mass’ which then split apart.

Secondly, this was contained in Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity which he published in 1916, soon afterwards explained by Alexander Friedman in 1922 and later verified by Edwin Hubble in 1929, when he was commissioned to search the depth of the universe through the most advanced scientific instrument at the time, the newly built one hundred inch diameter Mount Wilson Telescope.

Humanity’s knowledge about the universe was drastically changed at Hubble’s discovery and set her thinking on a completely different path. The world thought and to this date still thinks that it was a new discovery, but within the Qur’aan the statement laid dormant for thirteen hundred years. Up to that date not even the greatest Muslim scholars of The Qur’aan fathomed its meaning. Even to this date [1991, the Era of The space Telescope] very few are aware of it.

Muslim News Newspaper June 1991

Article Two

Profoundly more thought provoking of the two Qur’aanic verses is the fathoming of verse 021:104.The analysis of this verse indicates that the universe in its vertical evolution, since the time of its primordial distention has not yet reached maximum expansion. It is also further adduced via inference and allusion that the universe in its horizontal evolution has not yet reached maximum expansion limitation.

It also categorically asserts that the universe would eventually start a phase of contraction. Thus having reached the singular mass stage again would it split apart as expressed in verse 021:030.

The above data derived from the Qur’aan are not only astounding but as has been said before also earthshaking. The analyses of the data answer many questions that have puzzled and are still puzzling the minds of the greatest scientists of the twentieth century.

For example, cosmologists would like to know what the deceleration parameter of the universe is. From the highest present level of knowledge is it;

q < ½

q = ½

q > ½

(q = deceleration parameter)

According to the models of Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking and other cosmologists it is q = ½. According to Fred Hoyle and others who support the static universe concept it is q = -1.Yet others have described a universe that makes q = 0. According to another group it is q > ½. The Qur’aan Cosmological Model delineates it q > ½.

The preponderance of the evidence at present indicates that the universe is open (q < ½).The Hubble Space Telescope and other advanced scientific instruments being built will through much light upon these matters. We would probably in the next ten years know what the deceleration parameter of the universe is. Until then, we must all await the outcome of the evidence. As far as self-assertion is concerned, the Qur’aan is the only scientific document that categorically asserts the correctness of its delineation i.e. that the deceleration parameter of the universe is q > ½ .Others have not bound themselves in this way as yet in whichever way.

To back up its statement the Qur’aan challenges the five billion three hundred and fifty million people on earth to investigate more than one hundred branches of knowledge. After having done so, the Qur’aan continues, “then humanity will reach the same conclusion”. It then wants to know from humanity why they will not accept its being the Truth- that it is knowledge of ALLAAH (God), the Evolver of existence, that was revealed via the brain of an illiterate man whose lecturing and teaching thereof then revolutionized and overturned the religious, political, economical, sociological and military systems of the world within a few years about one thousand four hundred years ago.

Muslim News Newspaper July 1991

To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed)

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Can you post these verses?

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Qur’aan Chapter 021:030

Qur’aan Chapter 021:104

http://www.allahsqur.../read/index.php

I'm not doing the OP's homework for him.
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I'm not doing the OP's homework for him.

Qur’aan Chapter 021:030

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

Qur’aan Chapter 021:104

The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it

Can I help you with anything else, sir?

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That's it? So much for the description of cosmological structure and design of the entire universe from before time.

Edited by Rlyeh
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That's it? So much for the description of cosmological structure and design of the entire universe from before time.

Those translations are completely incorrect. In the next posts I shall go forth to present the exact meanings of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical terms as it is found in The Arabic- English Dictionary of Dr Edward William Lane over fifty years before the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.

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Continued from post #1

That ends the two quoted articles I wrote about the Qur’aan Cosmological Model just over twenty years ago. If I had written it today I would probably have written it a little different. Nevertheless it serves its purpose here as an introduction to what the Qur’aan Cosmological Model is.

So in more detail, what is the Qur’aan Cosmological Model?

The Qur’aan Cosmological model is a mathematical and graphical presentation of the origin, evolution, and ultimate fate of the universe as it is contained in just two verses of the Qur’aan. These two verses provide us with the key words that describe the general evolution of the universe.

Khalqan = Tayyan +Ratqan +Fatqan +2Tayyan +2Ratqan +2Fatqan.

Creation = Turn in +Rotate + Fire out +2Turn in +2Rotate +2Fire out.(an example)

The initial letters of these key words produce the following algorithmic compression;

Kh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F

Arabic is a language based on what we call root letters. From these root letters the entire language is built up. They are all consonants which are formed into patterns of two’s three’s or four’s. The Arabic language has 28 consonants and a special letter we call laam ‘alif. There are also only three vowels and vowel signs in the language which can be either short or long and when used are written either above or below the consonants to produce the words and in this case the root letters which are all verbs in the third person past tense. Don’t worry about all the details at this stage because they will all be wonderfully and easily explained further on and then everything will be easily understood.

It will be seen that when we run the Qur’aanic cosmological algorithmic compression

Kh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F

through the fundamental structure of the Arabic language then we witness a magnificent display of verbs, nouns, and adjectives that go back to describe each and every phase of the universe at its exact time and place in great detail. We are presented without exaggeration hundreds of beautiful drawings of the phases the universe undergoes from its cosmological origin, through its cosmological evolution, and until its eventual cosmological fate. And upon that we also see the derivation of many simple and logical abbreviations that precisely describe each and every phase of the universe. And then further beyond that we realize and see how the actions of the universe drive life into the dead and empty of meaning fundamental building blocks of the language- which are all the fundamental verbal patterns from which are derived the words of the language.

That in a nutshell is the Qur’aan Cosmological Model. We can go into great detail inshaa allaah.

Below is a graphical illustration of The Qur'aan Cosmological Model. In posts to follow I shall go into a detailed analysis of the two Qur'aan cosmological verses associated with The Qur'aan Cosmological Model.

QCMfig001.png

To be continued inshaa allaah.

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Must be read from post #1 to follow

Before we can embark on this simple quest to see whether or not the Qur'aan contains a satisfactory and complete explanation for the existence of the universe, we need first have to present from the Qur'aan itself the relevant Qur'aanic verses for analysis.

For the sake of not wanting to be accused of not faithfully rendering the appropriate Qur'aanic verses I have decided to present the translations of mostly non-Muslim scholars to remove any such doubts. Over half of the presented translations go back prior to 1929 before it was discovered that the universe was undergoing expansion.Therefore it cannot be said that this knowledge of the 'big bang' is not contained in the Qur'aan.

Remember these are only translations and not the real Qur'aan which is in the perfect branch of the Arabic language which Arabs (overwhelmingly) in the world do not speak.

The two Qur'aanic Cosmological verses go into very great detail about the entire structure of the universe from before its beginning until after its ultimate fate. The General Theory of Relativity is but a dot as compared to the details one find in these two Qur'aanic cosmological verses.I present to you here the first of the two Qur'aanic cosmological verses that when place together produces hundreds of geometric delineations of the various phases of the universe including details beyond plank time. After I have presented the second two Qur'aanic cosmological verses in posts to follow I shall begin with the detailed analysis

Translation of the first of the two Qur'aanic Cosmological Verses: The Qur'aan Chapter 21:30 The Prophets.

(01) - 1734 translation

---

Do not the unbelievers therefore know,

that the heavens and the earth were solid

and

We clave the same in sunder

And

made every living thing of water?

Will they not therefore believe?

-

George Sale pub.1734 Christian Scholar

- - -

(02) - 1861 translation

---

Do not the infidels see

that the heavens and the earth were both a solid mass,

and

that we clave them asunder,

and

that by means of water we give life to everything?

Will they not then believe?

-

Rev. John Medows Rodwell pub. 1861 Christian Scholar

- - -

(03) - 1880 translation

---

Do not those who misbelieve see

that the heavens and the earth were both solid,

and

we burst them asunder;

and

we made from water every living thing –

will they then not believe?

-

Edward Henry Palmer pub. 1880 Christian Scholar

- - -

(04) - 1917 translation

---

Do not those who disbelieve see

that the heavens and the earth were closed up,

so

We rent them.

And

We made from water everything living.

Will they not then believe?

-

Maulana Muhammad Ali pub. 1917 Ahmadi Muslim Scholar

- - -

(05) - 1930 translation

---

Have not those who disbelieve known

that the heavens and the earth were of one piece,

then We parted them,

and

we made every living thing of water?

Will they not then believe?

-

M. Marmaduke Pickthall pub. 1930 Christian turn Muslim Scholar

- - -

(06) - 1934 translation

---

Do not the Unbelievers see

that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation),

before we clove them asunder?

We made from water every living thing.

Will they not then believe?

-

Abdullah Yusuf Ali pub. 1934 Muslim Scholar

- - -

(07) - 1955 translation

---

Have not the unbelievers then beheld

that the heavens and the earth were a mass all sewn up,

and

then We unstitched them

and

of water fashioned every living thing?

Will they not believe?

-

Arthur John Arberry pub. 1955 Christian Scholar

- - -

(08) - 1956 translation

---

Are the disbelievers unaware

that the heavens and the earth were but one solid mass

which We tore asunder,

and

that We made every living thing from water?

Will they not have faith?

-

Nessim Joseph Dawood pub. 1956 Jewish Scholar

- - -

To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

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I'm supposed to be a Muslim, but I admit I haven't been praying or doing my religious duties.

If you want to come out at me with guns blazing, then so be it.

I haven't felt at peace with myself or the religion when I was practicing it.

This life has been nothing but one big headache for me.

Go ahead and accuse me of whatever, but I know I tried.

I didn't feel like myself with the religion, so there was no point fooling myself.

God should understand.

If not, is there any real love there?

My apologies if this has little relation with the OP.

Just couldn't read this without getting that off my mind.

...

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I'm supposed to be a Muslim, but I admit I haven't been praying or doing my religious duties.

If you want to come out at me with guns blazing, then so be it.

I haven't felt at peace with myself or the religion when I was practicing it.

This life has been nothing but one big headache for me.

Go ahead and accuse me of whatever, but I know I tried.

I didn't feel like myself with the religion, so there was no point fooling myself.

God should understand.

If not, is there any real love there?

My apologies if this has little relation with the OP.

Just couldn't read this without getting that off my mind.

...

Have no fear! When I begin to post the great stuff then all your delusions willed be dispelled. I will soon reveal right here in this forum the Greatest Mystery of all time. "The Hidden Book Of The Universe" - The Mathematical Program by which ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - GOD brought forth the Universe and upon which all the Divine Books are based. This has been handed down through 44 generations of the greatest genealogical line of scholars and descendants of the Prophet Muhammad(S+) ( one son after the other through his daughter FaTimah and ^aliy). Hope that you will continue to read as we go into a debth of the Qur'aan like it has never been seen in the world before.

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Must be read from post #1 #8 and #9

This is the second of the two Qur,aanic cosmological verses we have mentioned in the previous post. They are translations mostly by non-Muslim scholars and prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929. These translations are not perfect but they give the idea of what we are going to present here.

Translation of the second of the two Qur'aanic Cosmological Verses: The Qur'aan Chapter 21:30 The Prophets.

(01) - 1734 translation

---

On that day

We will roll up the heavens,

as the angel al Sijil rolleth up the book wherein every man's actions are recorded.

As We made the first creature out of nothing,

so We will also reproduce it at the resurrection.

This is a promise which it lieth on Us to fulfil:We will surely perform it.

-

George Sale pub. 1734 Christian Scholar

- - -

(02) - 1861 translation

---

On that day

we will roll up the heaven

as one rolleth up written scrolls.

As we made the first creation,

so will we bring it forth again.

This promise bindeth us; verily, we will perform it.

-

Rev. John Medows Rodwell pub. 1861 Christian Scholar

- - -

(03) - 1880translation

---

The day when

we will roll up the heavens

as es-Sigill rolls up the books;

as we produced it at its first creation

will we bring it back again –

a promise binding upon us; verily, we are going to do it.

-

Edward Henry Palmer pub. 1880 Christian Scholar

- - -

(04) - 1917translation

---

The day

when We roll up heaven

like the rolling up of the scroll of writings.

As We began the first creation,

We shall reproduce it.

A promise (binding) on Us.

We shall bring it about.

-

Maulana Muhammad Ali pub. 1917 Ahmadi Muslim Scholar

- - -

(05) - 1930translation

---

The Day

when We shall roll up the heavens

as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll.

As We began the first creation,

We shall repeat it.

(It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.

-

M. Marmaduke Pickthall pub. 1930 Christian Scholar turned Muslim Scholar

- - -

(06) - 1934translation

---

The Day

that We roll up the heavens

like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),-

even as We produced the first creation,

so shall We produce a new one:

a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it.

-

Abdullah Yusuf Ali pub. 1934 Muslim Scholar

- - -

(07) - 1955 translation

---

On the day

when We shall roll up heaven

as a scroll is rolled for the writings;

as We originated the first creation,

so We shall bring it back again –

a promise binding on Us; so We shall do.

-

Arthur John Arberry pub. 1955 Christian Scholar

- - -

(08) - 1956translation

---

On that day

We shall roll up the heaven

like a scroll of parchment.

Just as We brought the First Creation into being,

so will We restore it.

This is a promise We shall assuredly fulfil.

-

Nessim Joseph Dawood pub. 1956 Jewish Scholar

- - -

(9) - 1980translation

---

On that Day

We shall roll up the skies

as written scrolls are rolled up;

[and] as We brought into being the first creation,

so We shall bring it forth anew

a promise which We have willed upon Ourselves: for, behold, We are able to do [all things]!

-

Muhammad Asad pub. 1980 Jewish Scholar turned Muslim Scholar

- - -

All the translators quoted so far were men and now I will end off with a lady by the name of Aisha. She who is named after the beloved wife of the prophet (S+).

(10) - 1999translation

---

That Day

We will fold up heaven

like folding up the pages of a book.

As We originated the first creation

so We will regenerate it.

It is a promise binding on Us. That is what We will do.

-

Aisha Bewley pub. 1999 Muslim Scholar

To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

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Have no fear! When I begin to post the great stuff then all your delusions willed be dispelled. I will soon reveal right here in this forum the Greatest Mystery of all time. "The Hidden Book Of The Universe" - The Mathematical Program by which ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - GOD brought forth the Universe and upon which all the Divine Books are based. This has been handed down through 44 generations of the greatest genealogical line of scholars and descendants of the Prophet Muhammad(S+) ( one son after the other through his daughter FaTimah and ^aliy). Hope that you will continue to read as we go into a debth of the Qur'aan like it has never been seen in the world before.

Take your time, I'll continue to read as you post.

I still believe in a God (Allah), but I just pray to him in my own way.

I just trust Him to lead me in whichever path He wants me to take.

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Take your time, I'll continue to read as you post.

I still believe in a God (Allah), but I just pray to him in my own way.

I just trust Him to lead me in whichever path He wants me to take.

That is good enough for you. Only ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - GOD knows the destinies of all. As long as we are truthful and try and do the good deeds.

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Take your time, I'll continue to read as you post.

I still believe in a God (Allah), but I just pray to him in my own way.

I just trust Him to lead me in whichever path He wants me to take.

if it makes you feel any better am muslim who don't pray and pay religion duties as well

and i drink too .. sometimes and i still think god is understanding and look beyond the reasons before judging anyone

and i guess the way god prefer to be worshiped is when person fully convinced why and not to mimic what other people do

so in a way if person searching for truth before worshipping is considered kinda of worship on it's own

but not to go way off topic or not to sound preachy

i would like to ask you amiyer a question if you don't mind ..

are you a muslim ? which sect ?

and you don't have to answer i just like to get an idea of source of information coming from

as in this certain topic the source is you

thanks in advance

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Nice thread.

As for Muslims who feel they not to express that they do not practise. Fear not, no one is perfect.....we are bad muslims and bad Muslims can always change. As for worshipping Allah as you want.....Ive been there too. However I see it as a "me,me" attitude, everything about "me". Do you ever consider what you creator wants from you, how he may want you to worship him? Rather than you worshipping him as you wish, taking him out of equation, after all it's him who alone is worthy of worship.

As for the OP very interesting. I'm enjoying the posts and sort of know where it's going. As for non Muslims and skeptics......they will still dismiss it based on silly notions that it's not specific enough. Like they expect a cosmology text book from god and not realising that such references in the Quran is the creator pointing to certain phenomena regarding which the scientific knowledge is fairly new, yet the Quran and the creator made references to the big bang, expansion of the universe etc 1400 years ago.

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if it makes you feel any better am muslim who don't pray and pay religion duties as well

and i drink too .. sometimes and i still think god is understanding and look beyond the reasons before judging anyone

and i guess the way god prefer to be worshiped is when person fully convinced why and not to mimic what other people do

so in a way if person searching for truth before worshipping is considered kinda of worship on it's own

but not to go way off topic or not to sound preachy

i would like to ask you amiyer a question if you don't mind ..

are you a muslim ? which sect ?

and you don't have to answer i just like to get an idea of source of information coming from

as in this certain topic the source is you

thanks in advance

Here is an answer to your question. I can go into much greater detail if required.

The Most Illustrious Family Of Islaam Or That Of The Ages.

There is a Family that has now produced 43 generations of learned men, one son after the other, and all of them great scholars of Islaam. They are linked ( by blood or as advisers ) in one way or another to all the Khulafaa' (Khaliyfs) in the history of the whole of Islaam since the death of the messenger of ALLAAH (A*)(S+). This family has produced more than 500 000 scholars over the one thousand four hundred years of Islamic history. It is said that this family is the "itrah (stem) of 'ahlu_l_bayt ( family of the Prophet's house) which generated the different branches. We are speaking about the " Al-Qurashiy Al-Amjadiy " Family. The last great well known scholar of this family was al-bahru_l_muhaqqaq and al_"ilmu_l_mudaqqaq and shaykhu_l_"ilm and shaykhu_l_islaam and muftiy al_''arba"u_l_'a'immah maulanaa and mullaa as_sayyid Abu Bakr Effendi Al_khushnaawiy Al-qurashiy Al-Amjadiy (1814 - 1880). He was the adviser to the last absolute Sultans and Khaliyfs of The Ottoman Islamic State or Empire i.e. Sultans and Khaliyfs Abdul-Majid, Abdul-Aziz and Abdul-Hamid.

Here is a short history of one great ancestor (12th grandson of Zayd ibn Ali the grandson of imaam Husayn grandson of the Prophet (S+) and the 25th ancestor of the above mentioned Shaykh of Knowledge.

Abu-NaSr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan Al-Ghaaziy Al-Qurashiy Al-Amjadiy( c.1057 - c.1134 )

abuw naSr al_amiyr sulaymaan

was

one of the most extraordinary and exemplary men who ever lived.

He was a most gracious philanthropist,

a supreme commander,

and by the grace of ALLAAH (A*), a most successful man in everything he set out to do.

He was a great benefactor and promoter of knowledge and education

and above all

he was a man who, like his ancestors, loved and served The Lord

with all his heart, soul and mind.

To

the twenty-eight

generations of his learned descendants,

one son after the other,

over the next nine hundred years,

he was known as the father of help,

the man of good deeds, meritorious actions,

and

the shepherd of the flock of his future generations.

According to the family oral history, Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan was a direct descendant and inheritor of King Sulaymaan (Soloman), son of King Daawud (David) Kings of Judah through the line of Yuwsuf (Joseph) and Maryam (Mary), the mother of "Iysaa (Jesus).

It was said that he was the prophesied father (abu) of the Branch (naSr) which would bear fruit from the offshoot of Yassaa (Jessie), the father of King Daawud (David).

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan was also the twelfth direct descendant of Zayd, the son of "Aliy Zaynul_"aabidiyn (grandson of FaaTimah(P+), (daughter of the prophet Muhammad (S+) and Haydaan,the highborn captured princess of India.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan was also regarded as one of the six Mu'lifiyn (Thousanders) who was to be born or because he was born at the dawn or rise of the next millenium.

It has been said that the seventh mu'allif (Thousander) would be a direct descendant of Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan.

The other Thousanders were Aadam (Adam (P+), Nuwh (Noah (P+), 'IbraaHiym (Abraham (P+), Daawud (David (P+) and"Iysaa (Jesus (P+) to whom Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan were all related genealogically.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan, because of his family inheritance, his skillful business foresight and his spoils of war acquisitions became an immensely wealthy man. In fact he became one of the wealthiest individuals of his day. It has been estimated that his personal fixed property alone amounted to over one hundred square kilometers. His net worth today would amount to billions of dollars.

Despite his enormous wealth, Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan lived a remarkably simple life and was very rarely seen in public. It was his usual practice to spend most of his time in isolation worshipping his Lord. All who met him were struck by his simplicity and were sworn to uphold his hidden family identity.

One day, Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan, called for an appointed day of assembly of the tribal Elders, other prominent Leaders, Scholars and Learned men. He told them that the time had come for him to give up all his wealth and use it all for the lofty cause of his Lord. He told them that all the moneys and proceeds of the lands must all go for the upkeep of the school that he had created and build in Siysaawah (near Shahrizur, Arbil or Sulaymaniyah in Iraq).

After having stated all the conditions of the school which among others are that-

- it shall be a school that shall be open to all who wish to learn.

-it shall be a school in which all who wish to learn shall have the right to free education in it.

-it shall be a school in which all who wish to learn shall have the right to free food from it.

-and it shall be a school in which all who wish to learn shall have the right to free lodging in it.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan stated that he had placed everything into the hands of Abul_muhsin Mullaa "Uthmaan Haamid

whom he said was the most upright and learned of his sons

and that he shall be responsible for the upkeep of the school and for the overseeing of the execution of all the stipulated conditions.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan also stated that after Abul_muhsin Mullaa "Uthmaan Haamid had passed on, the school shall be placed in the charge of the most upright and learned of the sons of his sons and so forth. And if it were to happen that they should become degenerate then it shall be placed in the charge of the sons of his daughters and so forth. And if it were also to happen that they were to go from bad to worse then it shall go to any of the most upright and learned of his scattered descendants who took up the course to uphold this eternal foundation and endowment .And if they should die out then it shall go on to the daughters of his daughters .And if they should die out it then it shall pass on to the nearest of the tribe and then to humanity.

In the end he prayed and sought refuge in The All_Mighty Creator ,Preserver and Destroyer, who sees to the end of time,

to protect his descendants from gradual corrosion and ultimate obliteration.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan had everything written down and dated Wednesday, 23 Muharram 523A.H (corresponding to 23 January 1129).

Then signed it

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan Al-Gaaziy Al-Qurashiy Al-Amjadiy (The poor man in need of The All_Mighty).

---

Here is more about the school of this family that lasted over seven hundred years until it was finally destroyed in 1831 and the family again had to flee to another part of the world and with it soon to be demise of the visible Ottoman Sunni Islaamic Khilaafah.

During the last ten years members of The Turkish Government (including Prime Minister Erdogan and Foreign Minister Davutoglu) came to South Africa.One of the first things they requested was to go to the grave of The Shaykh of Knowledge As_sayyid Abdullaah Abu Bakr Effendi al-khushnaawiy al-Qurashiy al-Amjadiy (1814-1880). This was reported in both the South African and Turkish Media.The Shaykh of Knowledge is buried on the world famous Signal Hill that is the abdomen part of a mountain shaped in the form of a crouching lion which lies next to The World Renowned Table Mountain (now voted by humanity and declared a seventh wonder of the world and said to be the most wondrous mountain in the world). The history of The Shaykh of Knowledge, his ancestry and his coming to South Africa has been described by historians and other writers as amazing and crying out to be written. It all started like this when the Muslims of The Colony of The Cape of Good Hope wrote a letter to the Governor as follows.

A unique historical event

On 16 April 1862

The Muslims of The Colony of The Cape of Good Hope

Cape Town

South Africa

wrote a letter to the Governor as follows.

"As it is well known, 85 years ago some of Javenese islands fell into the hands of

The Dutch Government.

Our fathers were all tied up in chains, enslaved and brought here.

We were afflicted with suffering and problems;

the Honourable British Empire set us free from the slavery of the previous government

and gave us our liberty.

For that, we thank the empire for it's help and grace, and in case of necessity,

it is incumbent upon us to sacrifice ourselves for it's cause.

We once again express our thanks and gratitude.

It is obvious that each nation has to know and apply it's religion and way of life and practice.

But

we forgot our language of origin, the language of Javenese,

the books and treatises are all written in that language and therefore

we obviously need a teacher to read and teach them.

Since the situation is like this

it is requested to bring

a scholar-teacher from a Muslim country

in order to teach and train us."

16 Shawwaal 1278 (16 April 1862)

Signature

Muslim people

Cape of Good Hope

Omar Lutfi " A travelogue of my journey to The Cape of Good hope. p.7.

translated by Yusuf Kavakci

The Governor replied to the Muslims that it was not an easy matter for him and it had to be referred to Her Majesty Queen Victoria for Approval. ... The Governor's letter with the petition of the Muslims arrived at Queen Victoria's Government and it was discussed in parliament and recommendations were made. They then sent The letter to The Khalif of The Sunni World Sultan Abdul Aziz and The High Council of Islamic Affairs..................... It was Decided that the best person for the undertaking would be The Shaykh of Knowledge and The Shaykh of Islaam Abu Bakr Effendi(as he is mostly known). On 01 October 1862 The Shaykh of Knowledge left The Ottoman Islamic Khilafat in a ship from Istanbul bound for The Western World (it has been said that it was the first time in history that such an event took place between a Muslim government and a Christian one).

The Shaykh of Knowledge arrived in London on the 15 October 1862 and later at the palace of Queen Victoria where he met Lord Chamberlain who was waiting for his arrival. After spending two months there he left on 01 December 1862 for The Colony of the Cape of Good Hope, Cape Town, South Africa.

The Shaykh of Knowledge arrived in Cape Town in the early morning of the 13th of January 1863 where soon all the prominent Imams of the Muslims came to welcome him. A photograph of the Shaykh with all the prominent Muslims leaders was taken and believed to be the oldest photograph of Muslims in South Africa if not its oldest dated in the country. The Shaykh of Knowledge did not wait long and within one month he set up a school of higher learning and had over 300 students out of a population of 17000. The first reform he did was to put the women back into hijaab and then selected among the most intelligent ones among his students whom he then trained as teachers.He opened the first school of hifz and Arabic in South Africa as well as the first Muslim girls school and so forth. He trained many learned men and set up schools in many parts of Southern Africa. All this while he was learning to master the local language and English. The Shaykh also wrote the first book in the local language(354 pages) which was a mixture of Dutch and a smack of other languages which became Afrikaans, an Official language of South Africa. After the death of The Sultan and Khaliyf Abdul-Aziz, the Shaykh went back to Istanbul (1876) and one of the first things the new Sultan(Khalif Sultan Abdul-Hamid) did was to sign the printing of his book called The Explanation of the Diyn(Bayaanuddiyn). 1500 copies of the book was printed and it was translated in 1960 into English by a Dutch Scholar.It is said The Shaykh of Knowledge had more than 10 000 students all over the world. (Including Muhammad Dollie who went to England and found the first or one of the first Masjids there).

The Shaykh was born in Shahrizur Iraq in 1814 and started his education under his father aged two and had memorized the Quran by six. He studied first in the school set up in 523 Hijra or 1129 ACE. by his 25th ancestor known as abuw naSr al-amiyr sulaymaan al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy. All the ancestors of the Shaykh were great scholars and many were advisers to those who had ruled as Khaliyfs of the Muslims . The family always lived and kept a low profile so as not to make known their full identity. As so many of the forefathers were killed beheaded and crucified. They were the secret family who went into hiding of amiyr Zayd ibn Ali ( son of Imam Zaynul Abidiyn son of amiyr Husayn grandson of the Prophet (S+).

Zayd ibn Ali was killed ,beheaded and crucified in a battle similar to the battle of Badr by the Umayyad forces.His body (skeleton) remained on the cross naked for four years and when the next Umayyad Khaliyf took over, he ordered that the skeleton be taken down burnt and then scattered to the wind over the Euphrates River. Amiyr Zayd ibn Ali's son yahyaa then took up the imaamat after him and was also killed , beheaded and crucified and his body remained on the cross for six years... (then imaam Ja'far aS-Saadiq handed it over to muhammad nafsuzzakiyyah and his brother Ibraahiym) muhammad was also killed ,beheaded and crucified. Then Ibraahiym took it up and he too was killed , beheaded and crucified. Like that the this branch (or stem of the Haashemites of Ahlul-bayt were despised by the people.Then the standard of imaamat and amiyrship passed on to "iysaa ibn Zayd ibn Ali(the forth son of Zayd ibn Ali). All over the world the government pursued Imaam amiyr "iysaa. After imaam amiyr "iysaa his son imaam amiyr ahmad took up the standard and went into hiding. He is known to history as ahmad al-mukhtafiy(the hidden). Then he fled to the land of Khashnaw(at sisawa in Iraq among the Kurds) and there he and his descendants kept a low profile and tried to attract no attention.It has also been reported that the ancestors of the Khashnaaw was give a ring by imaam zaynul Aabidiyn to rule over the territory of Khashnaaw. About 300 years later the family again surfaced when the twelfth descendant of Zayd ibn Ali arose by the name of the above mentioned abuw naSr al-amiyr sulaymaan al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy and he founded his school.

This is a brief outline of the Family Tree of The shaykh of Knowledge

shaykh-ul-ilm and shaykhu-l-islaam -> abd-ullaah abuw-bakr <- effendi al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1229 - 1297) / ( 1814 - 1880 )

son of

1

mullaa amiyr -> umar <- effendi al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1192 - 1247 ) / ( 1778 - 1831 )

son of

1

Salaah-ud-diyn mullaa amiyr -> muSTafaa <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1157 - 1224 ) / ( 1744 - 1809 )

son of

1

mawlanaa baabaa piyr -> sulaymaan <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-'amjadiy

( 1136 - 1199 ) / ( 1723 - 1785 )

son of

1

mullaa -> muSTafaa <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - 1167 ) / ( - 1754 )

son of

mullaa -> ibraahiym <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - 1152 ) / ( - 1739 )

son of

1

amiyr -> sulaymaan<- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1068 - 1130 ) / ( 1657- 1718 )

son of

1

amiyr -> muhammad <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1045- 1110 ) / ( 1635 - 1698 )

son of

1

aDaD-ud-diyn -> abd-ullaah abiy-zayd -><- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1012 - 1077 ) / ( 1603 - 1666 )

son of

1

izz-ud-diyn -> muhammad al-faDlu qaddasa sirrahu <-al_khushnaawiy al_qurashiy al_'amjadiy

( 976 - 1039 ) / ( 1568 - 1629 )

son of

1

amiyr -> abd-ullaah <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 937 - 1003 ) / ( 1530 - 1594 )

son of

1

zayn-ud-diyn mullaa -> ahmad <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 900 - 967 ) / ( 1494 - 1559 )

son of

1

mullaa abd- ul- haq -> sulaymaan <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 871 - 929 ) / ( 1466 - 1523 )

son of

1

abu-sulaymaan -><- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 841 - 882 ) / ( 1437 - 1477 )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb DhuHuwr-ud-diyn-><- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - c.850 ) / ( ???? - c.1446 )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-muHaymin -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ur-razzaaq -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-us-samiy -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-u llaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-waliyy -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb buTuwn-ud-diyn -><- <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( c.541 - ???? ) / (c.1146 - ???? )

son of

1

abuw-l-muhsin mullaa -> uthmaan haamid <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( c. 483 - c.555 ) / (c. 1090 - c.1160 )

son of

1

abuw-naSr al-amiyr -> sulaymaan <-al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( c. 459 - c.528 ) / ( c.1057 - c.1134 )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb iyqaaDh-ud-diyn -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-hakiym -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-baSiyr-><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah-><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-khabiyr-> <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-baatin -> <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

mawlanaa -> ahmad <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

'amiyr abd-ul-majiyd -> muhammad abd-ullaah sulaymaan<- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

'amiyr abd-u-l-hamiyd al-khalaf->'ahmadu-l-mukhtafiy abd-ullaah muhammad<- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

(???? - ????) / (???? -???? )

son of

1

'amiyr abd-uS-Samad as-salaf->"abdullaah yahyaa iysaa<- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

'amiyr-ul-mujaahidiyn haliyfu-l-qur'aan -> zaydu-al-shahiyd <- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

imaam zaynu-l-aabidiyn -> aliy as-sajjaad <- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

amiyr-ush-shuhadaa imaam -> husayn <- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

khaliyfatullaah amiyr-ul-mu’miniyn -> aliy <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

abuw Taalib -> imraan <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

abd-l-muTTalib ->shayba <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Haashim -> amru-l-ulaa <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

abdu manaaf -> al-mughiyra <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

quSayy -> zayd <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

kilaab -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

murra -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

ka"b -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

lu'ayy -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

ghaalib -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

fihr -><-al-quraysh al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

Now this is my family history. I hope that answered something of your question.

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I deleted this post because it was a double post by accident.

Edited by al-amiyr

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Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12

Let us now present the first of the two Qur’aan Cosmological Model (QCM) verses from the 'real' Qur'aan; meaning the one in Arabic as it has been presented by the Prophet (S+). Let us begin the exposé!

Here is the Arabic text of the first Qur’aan Cosmological Model verse with transliteration.Don't be dismayed if you cannot read the Arabic because it is the transliteration which we will be using here for our exposition.

Qur’aan 021:30

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا

أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا

فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا

وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ

أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

transliteration

‘a-wa-lam yara lladhiyna kafaruw

‘anna as-samaawaati wa-l-‘arDa kaanataa Ratqan

fa-Fataq-naa humaa

wa-ja”al-naa min al-maa’i kulla shay’in hayyin

‘a-fa-laa yu’minuwna

Here I present the most accurate translation of the verse. Though by no means perfect. I have not translated the key words because they are technical terms in their own right and cannot be translated without grave loss of the original. I will select and explain each of them adequately with proofs from the Qur'aan itself as well as the authoritative Arabic dictionaries.

translation

Have those who have disbelieved now not seen:-

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

And We made from water every living thing.

Will they now not believe?

This verse contains an encyclopedia of information of which I will touch upon only the cosmological aspects. To do that I will simply extract the parts of the verse that I have already colored in.

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

What is the verse actually saying. When we read it at face value we see that it speaks about how ALLAAH (God) brought about the creation of the universe we happen to find ourselves living in. This earth upon which we live, the sun and the moon and the stars, and everything else that the universe contains.

Let us go over it again exactly as it is written.

ALLAAH says, "

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again."

I would like you to repeat the verse at least three times so that you can become familiar with those four untranslated technical terms of which I have already said cannot be translated without grave lost of the original. The problem is that when scholars think that they can translate these technical terms of the Qur'aan into English or for that matter into any other language and they go ahead and then begin to do so they effectively make the Qur'aan completely dysfunctional. Then people who have no understanding of what the original is saying begin to read and study it and start making all kinds of proclamations as to what the Qur'aan is really saying. So they have misled themselves and all others who follow them and that goes for all those who repeat their behavior.

To be continued ( the explanation of the four Qur'aanic Cosmological Model Verses) inshaa allaah (if God had willed).

Edited by al-amiyr

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Please post source links. Also, do not post large blocks of text.

As stated in UM rules:

2c. Plagiarism and copyright: If you quote text from an external web site then please always provide a source link. Members are asked to copy only as much as is necessary when quoting material from external sources, do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages.

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Please post source links. Also, do not post large blocks of text.

As stated in UM rules:

2c. Plagiarism and copyright: If you quote text from an external web site then please always provide a source link. Members are asked to copy only as much as is necessary when quoting material from external sources, do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages.

All this is my own work. From my own books that I am writing. I make them available without any copyright. There is no subject like this other than what I am presenting. I am hoping for good discussion from the members here. I can assure that there is absolutely no 2c. Plagiarism and copyright: . I hope that clarifies the concern.

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Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 and #19

The four technical terms are:-

- the samaawaat

- the ‘arD

- Ratqan

- Fataq

The definite article ‘al’ ‘the’ I have translated as 'the samaawaat' and not 'al-samaawaat'; and 'the ‘arD' and not 'al-‘arD'. You would have noticed that I have written ‘arD' with a capital D instead of with a small d. The reason for this is that there are two d’s in the Arabic language; one pronounced at the tip of the tongue like the ‘d’ in the English word ‘did’ and the other pronounced with the tongue against the roof of the mouth and similar to the ‘D’ in the English word ‘Dark’ but even more emphatic. It is said that the Arabic language is the only language which contains this letter or sound. In fact almost all Muslims mispronounce this emphatic ‘D’ and thus destroy the Qur’aan with their tongues without realizing it because every letter of the Qur’aan is a multi-dimensional space-time configuration. The Jews have done the same thing with the letters of the Torah which are also all multi-dimensional space-time configurations. The Christians have no part in this science because they have completely discarded the alphabet of the Bible and opted to translate and read the Holy Book in other alphabets and languages. For Example the letter ‘M’ called ‘MiyM’ and ‘Mem’ in Hebrew are the symbols for the mathematical equation of a circle x/2 + y/2 = r/2. This is what is referred to as the knowledge contained in all the Divine Books. If this knowledge is lost then virtually everything becomes lost. The Divine Books would then become interpretations of infinite duration- like it is now.

Let us look at the technical term samaawaat

samaawaat is the plural of the Arabic word samaa’. If we were to open an Arabic dictionary like that of Edward William Lane which was published in 1865 and regarded as one of the greatest dictionaries of all time we will find the following definitions or explanations.[/font]

As a verb:

- he or it was, or became, high, lofty, raised, upraised, uplifted, upreared, exalted, or elevated. [/font]

- he or it rose, or rose high.

-he or it rose higher or above.

As a noun:

-the higher, or upper, or highest, or uppermost, part of anything.

-the sky, or heavens.

Let us look at the technical term‘arD.

As a verb:

- he or it became lowly or submissive.

- he or it became or rendered heavy, slow, sluggish, inclining, or propending, to the ground.

-it collected moisture, and became luxuriant with herbage

-it became soft to tread upon, pleasant to sit upon, productive, and good in its herbage or vegetation.

-the ulcer, or sore, became blistered, and wide, and corrupt, and dissundered.

As a noun:

With the definite article ‘the’

- the earth as opposed to heaven.

-the ground, as meaning the surface of the earth, on which we tread and sit and lie.

-the floor

Without the definite article ‘the’

- a land, or a country.

- a piece of land or ground.

- anything that is low.

Let us look at the technical term - Ratqan.

From the verb: Rataqa

- he closed up.

- he sewed up, or together.

Ratqan

- closed up.

- sewn up.

Let us look at the technical term - Fataq.

It is the verb: - Fataqa

- he slit it, rent it, rent it asunder or open, or divided it lengthwise.

- he disjoined it, or disunited it

- he undid the sewing of it, unsewed it, or unstitched it

(- became swollen, or inflated, in the flanks.

- appeared after concealment.)

As the noun: -Fatqan

- a rent, slit, or the like.

- an open, and a spacious, place.

There we have the meanings of the four technical terms; as verbs as well as nouns.

We are now getting close to the formation of the Qur’aan Cosmological Model. After that the QCM will start to come alive.

Have again another good look at the Qur’aan Cosmological Model below. Can you begin to recognize where we are in the Model.

QCMfig001.png

Continued in posts to follow inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

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Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 and #22

Again let us look at the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) verse that I have already presented and which we are now going to analyze via the meaning and definitions of its four technical terms.

Be reminded that these four Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms that have already been explained earlier are all found in the Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane. This Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane is the greatest, on every level, Arabic - English dictionary ever produced in the English language and virtually contains the entire Classical Arabic Language upon which the Qur'aan is based. Edward William Lane was called, in his lifetime, the master of the Arabic Language. It is a work of breathless achievement- the greatest height a scholar could attain to maximum precise detail.I present to you the publishers note for further elaboration.

Edward William Lane's ARABIC - ENGLISH LEXICON Book1 contains all the classical words, their derivatives, and their usages. It appears in eight separate volumes and took the author more than thirty years to compile.

Book II, which Dr. Lane contemplated and which was to contain rare words and explanations, was incomplete at the time of his death in 1876 and therefore never appeared.

In describing Lane’s Lexicon, Dr. G. P. Badger wrote, “This marvelous work in its fullness and richness, its deep research correctness and simplicity of arrangement far transcends the Lexicon of any language ever presented to the world.”

And as Dr. Lane sets it out on the face page,

“Containing all the classical words and significations commonly known to the learned among the Arabs.”

For this reason we shall use this great lexicon which was completed by 1876 ( and 53 years before the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929 that mightily changed our perception of the universe) for the explanation of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms. If we do this we can never be accused of 'wangling' the words of the Qur'aan to fit up with what scientists have discovered only later. And those Arabic words presented by Lane are non other than the very Arabic words he had selected from the great Arabic dictionaries that go back up to over a thousand years earlier and that ultimately get traced back to the tongue of the Messenger of ALLAAH (S+) to whom the Qur'aan was revealed.

In posts to follow we shall begin to analyze the QCM technical terms we have mentioned; present their geometrical mathematical delineations; extrapolate there mathematical equations and so forth.

To be continued inshaa allaah (if God had willed).

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Sorry I have a some knowledge of cosmology and the quotes you posted are not going to cut it as science, not even close. They are much to general and most of it was also proposed by other religions. I think the Hindus got a little closer, but even they didn't really hit the mark. Sorry no cigar for you. In my opinion you're preaching.

edit to add... If it takes a hundred pages to explain why it is not BS then most likely it is BS.

Edited by Darkwind
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Sorry I have a some knowledge of cosmology and the quotes you posted are not going to cut it as science, not even close. They are much to general and most of it was also proposed by other religions. I think the Hindus got a little closer, but even they didn't really hit the mark. Sorry no cigar for you. In my opinion you're preaching.

edit to add... If it takes a hundred pages to explain why it is not BS then most likely it is BS.

You have the right to your views but you are incorrect. You have not provided any evidence for what you claim. In my opinion your only option is accuse the poster of "preaching". A strategy I have found all those who claim and cry free speech themselves hate for others. I do not say that you are included, but it makes me think.

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