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mfrmboy

Alien photos that make you go HHHMMM .......

126 posts in this topic

Forget an alien looking good, I would be suprised to see one that is even mildly human looking or humanoid looking. I would honestly be suprised if the aliens had 4 limbs or resembled any mammal we have seen on Earth. The only way that is even plausible is if they came from a planet exactly like earth, and that is still a shot in the dark IMO.

Hello Hutton.

I honestly do not believe that is that case at all. Considering convergeant evolution, the bipedal creature with 4 limbs is the most successful pattern to accomodate everything from farming to technology. No other form has the leverage, dexterity or maneuverability to make an Industrial Revolution happen. Simon Conway Morris, well known Palaeontologist puts forth a very good argument that I think if darn near impossible to refute. A very good example of convergeant evolution is the Tasmanian Tiger. The canine shape was very successful as a hunting model, and it was adapted by this marsupial. The bipedal stance, the opposable thumb and our brain make our pattern one that really ought to show up again in the evolutionary stakes. You would not be the first one to say that life will be unrecognisable, yet I have not seen a good argument why the bipedal shape would not be utilised in evolution extensively for life as we know it. It is a bit arrogant to think of this as "our shape" as it is anything but. We are the product of the which nature provides us - the environment. e are looking at earth like planets to find intelligent life, so why would an earth like planet not have earth like beings following evolution, just as they did here? 50 Billion species have evolved here, and only one shape made it through to intelligence capable of establishing a civilisation, and more than once considering the Neanderthal's, The Denisovians, Flores People, and many more yet to come I am sure.

Harvard University Biologist Ed Wilson agrees with this position.

I agree with Sagan that life can take all forms, but I do not believe all forms are suitably adapted to allow an Industrial Revolution to take place. Intelligent life I feel is likely to be quite familiar.

LINK - Professor Simon Conway Morris Homepage.

LINK - Paper

Edited by psyche101
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There are some sexy Romulans and Vulcans. That green chick in the new Star Trek movie is pretty hot...and what about the movie Avatar? That blue chick is bangin lol

At 4 meters tall, you are a gamer man than I. Ans we do not know the green chick in Star Trek was not human. Might be a side effect of Soylent Green, or the latest in all body future tattoos. People get their eyes tattooed these days. Looks gross.

Romulans and Vulcans are just humans with pointy ears. I was kinda hoping someone might come up with something "not human" that is aesthetically pleasing. I have racked my brains, and struggle with half a creature at best. And even that is a personal view.

Romulans and Vulcans have copper based blood if my memory of Dr McCoy is correct. Other than that, we are identical, they even only have one heart.

I would like to see an Alien that does make me go Hrmmmmm!

Edited by psyche101

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At 4 meters tall, you are a gamer man than I. Ans we do not know the green chick in Star Trek was not human.

According to Trek lore, she's from the Orion system and is basically a member of a species of sex fiends, the females emit hormones that drive males of most species wild.

Romulans and Vulcans have copper based blood if my memory of Dr McCoy s correct. Other than that, we are identical, they even only have one heart.

Heart's in a different place though.

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According to Trek lore, she's from the Orion system and is basically a member of a species of sex fiends, the females emit hormones that drive males of most species wild.

?? Sure?

Is that not Kamala from the TNG episode "The Perfect Mate"?

Heart's in a different place though.

Not so sure. The rumour of it being where the human liver cannot be true, although according to DS9 it is grey in colour. Sullu stabs a Romulan in the chest in Star Trek XI when he and Kirk fight the Romulan's on the drill over Vulcan. It is fatal.

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?? Sure?

Is that not Kamala from the TNG episode "The Perfect Mate"?

Yeap, Orion's are like that too it's a plot point in one of the episodes of Enterprise.

Not so sure. The rumour of it being where the human liver cannot be true, although according to DS9 it is grey in colour. Sullu stabs a Romulan in the chest in Star Trek XI when he and Kirk fight the Romulan's on the drill over Vulcan. It is fatal.

In one of the TOS episodes someone listens to Spock's chest after being told he's a daemon and has no heart and hears no heart beat.

Maybe they've got something else in their chest that's lethal to wound (stomach perhaps?).

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Meanwhile, I am not sure what it is, but there is a blue/green/yellow light that bounces ontop of a table near the alien. The UFO repeatedly bounces through the footage.

I think the guy said it was a heart rate monitor.

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Yeap, Orion's are like that too it's a plot point in one of the episodes of Enterprise.

Not so much phenomenal from Orion though, slave girls aren't they? Which begs the questions, what is a slave girl doing at Starfleet academy?

In one of the TOS episodes someone listens to Spock's chest after being told he's a daemon and has no heart and hears no heart beat.

Maybe they've got something else in their chest that's lethal to wound (stomach perhaps?).

Or

Hi Everybody!

nick_knife.jpg

Or perhaps more appropriately?

180px-Zoidberg_promo.png

Edited by psyche101
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At 4 meters tall, you are a gamer man than I. Ans we do not know the green chick in Star Trek was not human. Might be a side effect of Soylent Green, or the latest in all body future tattoos. People get their eyes tattooed these days. Looks gross.

Romulans and Vulcans are just humans with pointy ears. I was kinda hoping someone might come up with something "not human" that is aesthetically pleasing. I have racked my brains, and struggle with half a creature at best. And even that is a personal view.

Romulans and Vulcans have copper based blood if my memory of Dr McCoy is correct. Other than that, we are identical, they even only have one heart.

I would like to see an Alien that does make me go Hrmmmmm!

There are those that think attraction outside of the human species to be somewhat taboo. I don't know if I should be concerned here or not?

Kidding, of course! :w00t::tu:

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http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Orion_slave_girl

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gaila_(Orion)

I love how the pilot for TOS basically has the captain of the Enterprise casually discussing selling and buying slaves (sex slaves for that matter). Political correctness? That's for other TV shows!

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Hello Hutton.

I honestly do not believe that is that case at all. Considering convergeant evolution, the bipedal creature with 4 limbs is the most successful pattern to accomodate everything from farming to technology. No other form has the leverage, dexterity or maneuverability to make an Industrial Revolution happen. Simon Conway Morris, well known Palaeontologist puts forth a very good argument that I think if darn near impossible to refute. A very good example of convergeant evolution is the Tasmanian Tiger. The canine shape was very successful as a hunting model, and it was adapted by this marsupial. The bipedal stance, the opposable thumb and our brain make our pattern one that really ought to show up again in the evolutionary stakes. You would not be the first one to say that life will be unrecognisable, yet I have not seen a good argument why the bipedal shape would not be utilised in evolution extensively for life as we know it. It is a bit arrogant to think of this as "our shape" as it is anything but. We are the product of the which nature provides us - the environment. e are looking at earth like planets to find intelligent life, so why would an earth like planet not have earth like beings following evolution, just as they did here? 50 Billion species have evolved here, and only one shape made it through to intelligence capable of establishing a civilisation, and more than once considering the Neanderthal's, The Denisovians, Flores People, and many more yet to come I am sure.

Harvard University Biologist Ed Wilson agrees with this position.

I agree with Sagan that life can take all forms, but I do not believe all forms are suitably adapted to allow an Industrial Revolution to take place. Intelligent life I feel is likely to be quite familiar.

LINK - Professor Simon Conway Morris Homepage.

LINK - Paper

You are thinking about this way too much. It is quite simple and I think my point is more logical. You are using the evolution of humans on this planet as an example. The Industrial Revolution was started by humans, not in spite of them. A 4 limbed creature has certainly appeared to be the most successful, but that only depends on how you define ‘success.’ I personally find the Bdelloid rotifers to be the most successful creatures. They have not sexually reproduced in 50-100 million years. They have not had to because they work. They have no reason to evolve. They are essentially “perfect.”

Besides that fact, it is important to understand that 4 limbs, and any feature, came about by a random mutation that provided a sexual advantage. We must take in to consideration that that particular random mutation occurred and that it offered an advantage in their environment at that particular time. To compare that to the Industrial Revolution on earth is highly irrelevant. It is just as plausible that a creature with 2, 6, 8, or 10 limbs could fare just as well, if not better. Someone in the industrial revolution would certainly have been more productive with 4 arms rather than 2.

The fact of the matter is that this is based on random mutation and the environment they came from. To think the same random mutations would happen on another planet, that has the same conditions, at the right time, which would mirror earth, is highly unlikely…

There is no reason to believe other intelligent life would look anything like us.

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There are those that think attraction outside of the human species to be somewhat taboo. I don't know if I should be concerned here or not?

Kidding, of course! :w00t::tu:

LOL, I have not seen a species outside of human that make me turn my head yet, but I am hoping something exists out there I had not thought of!

It's a bit depressing to think of bulbous headed aliens being an only alternative!

This is where I could use a good imagination I suppose! 747400's words are have come to haunt me!

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http://en.memory-alp...rion_slave_girl

http://en.memory-alp...ki/Gaila_(Orion)

I love how the pilot for TOS basically has the captain of the Enterprise casually discussing selling and buying slaves (sex slaves for that matter). Political correctness? That's for other TV shows!

Well mate. I have to concede. Well said. Still one good looking alien is a bit shy I reckon! The statistics could use some evening up :D

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You are thinking about this way too much.

LOL, that is exactly what I do. But I fail to see a problem with it? How does this affect my argument adversely?

It is quite simple and I think my point is more logical.

I beg your pardon but, what point? That is just "should be"? No offence but I see no more than that in your rebuttal? What logic have you presented that states an anthropomorphic design could be superseded by a better design?

You are using the evolution of humans on this planet as an example.

Indeed, a pool of one arising from microbial life, just like the planets we are looking for life on. It is all we have that we can take to the bank. If we are looking at planets like earth for intelligent life, why would life be different? Do you feel a different evolutionary process would happen? If so, why? All life, plants and animals come from a single spark. Would that be different elsewhere?

The Industrial Revolution was started by humans, not in spite of them. A 4 limbed creature has certainly appeared to be the most successful, but that only depends on how you define ‘success.’ I personally find the Bdelloid rotifers to be the most successful creatures. They have not sexually reproduced in 50-100 million years. They have not had to because they work. They have no reason to evolve. They are essentially “perfect.”

I believe an Industrial Revolution is simply an aspect of evolution. And a necessary step on the way to achieving an intelligent society. Whilst this one was started by humans, how would one achieve the ability to travel amongst the stars without such? Bdelloidea are not interstellar travellers, or even intelligent. What do they have to do with convergeant evolution if they have achieved evolutionary equilibrium? Do you feel they are some sort of argument against convergent evolution? Not sure I am following you here 100%, hopefully you can clarify.

And I bet rags to riches that if the planets conditions changed, they would evolve again. There is no pinnacle of evolution. The Giraffe is also at a perfect harmony with it's environment and has no need to evolve further, in fact I believe Dawkins said it has nowhere left to go. But if the environment was to change, so would the Giraffe.

Bdelloidea are not intelligent. Never have been. They are rudimentary microbes. We are talking intelligent life are we not? I expect such microbes to be far more common in the Universe than intelligent life, being a very basic form of life. When discussing success with regards to intelligence, these guys do not have a dog in this race.

LOL, to me no sex for 80 million years is not intelligent at all :w00t:

Besides that fact, it is important to understand that 4 limbs, and any feature, came about by a random mutation that provided a sexual advantage. We must take in to consideration that that particular random mutation occurred and that it offered an advantage in their environment at that particular time. To compare that to the Industrial Revolution on earth is highly irrelevant. It is just as plausible that a creature with 2, 6, 8, or 10 limbs could fare just as well, if not better. Someone in the industrial revolution would certainly have been more productive with 4 arms rather than 2.

Why would a creature retain 4, 6 or 8 arms when they are simply not necessary? We lost the tail, we used to be a five limbed creature, but it was not necessary. This body plan is well shaped, and developed to accomplish industrial and technological feats.

It is not irrelevant to include the Industrial Revolution being an important step to intelligence, or at least I cannot see why you think so, other than a plain outright objection, Could I ask you to extrapolate any points supporting this claim?

Why would a 4 armed person be more efficient in an industrial revolution? Additional energy and resources would be required for the extra body mass that can just as easily be achieved with two limbs and leverage. Utilisation of your surrounding environment. Those that can utilise with the greatest efficiency win. As the Neanderthal found out.

The fact of the matter is that this is based on random mutation and the environment they came from. To think the same random mutations would happen on another planet, that has the same conditions, at the right time, which would mirror earth, is highly unlikely…

Why?

Link - Earth Like Planet Found Next Door

Link - Earth Like Planet Can Sustain Life

Link - 100 Earth Like Planets Found Within 30 Light Years!

Speciation and Convergeant Evolution is more what I am talking about in any case. But I do not see how random mutation make a difference here? Successful mutations are successful mutations. Why would what works for one group not work for another? i.e. if it works here, why is it impossible that it would work on another earth like planet?

There is no reason to believe other intelligent life would look anything like us.

I have given several reasons and a paper. I would appreciate it if you could adress why those points are incorrect, and perhaps tell me why convergent evolution would be restricted to a planet as opposed to a Galaxy, or the Universe for that matter? From what I can see there is every reason to think life would be very familiar. And no reasons why alternate body shapes would be more successful. Why would an 8 limbed creature evolve into intelligence over a two armed one? What would be the advantage of 8 arms? I understand 3 if one was in Total Recall but beyond that, reasons seem to not exist. More limbs, more energy is required, and more body plan. In many cases, less is more. The Anthropomorphic design holds the best features from all plans. What would work better, and why?

Examples of Convergent Evolution.

220px-Armidillidium.vs.glomeris.jpg250px-Astrophytum_asterias1.jpg250px-E_obesa_symmetrica_ies.jpg319px-Evolutionary_trends.svg.png

Beutelwolf_fg01.jpg

Edited by psyche101
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What would work better, and why?

Not trying to jump in the middle of something here but It is more about what works, period. The humanoid model works well...for us. I don't think it is as definitive as you would suggest though. Don't get me wrong, there are undeniable advantages to a humanoid form though I think there is room in the great scope of life to incorporate higher intelligence and subsequent space travel in other body types as well. I don't have anything to back that up with though, it's just an opinion of mine. :tu:

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In photo 4, if you look really really carefully with a microscope, you can see the virgin Mary.....somewhere.

Hahahahaha!!!!!

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Not trying to jump in the middle of something here but It is more about what works, period. The humanoid model works well...for us. I don't think it is as definitive as you would suggest though. Don't get me wrong, there are undeniable advantages to a humanoid form though I think there is room in the great scope of life to incorporate higher intelligence and subsequent space travel in other body types as well. I don't have anything to back that up with though, it's just an opinion of mine. :tu:

No probs my friend, good to have you on board!

I cannot understand why though. As you say, you have a personal opinion, but logically, can the anthropomorphic argument be soundly refuted, nay challenged? With over 50 billion different shapes in our historical record, and only one shape achieving intelligence, and several times at that, I find a convincing argument. I tried for weeks to come up with an alternative plan with my very basic skills on Daz3D, but to no avail. Everything I designed that could lift, manipulate and design came up anthropomorphic. More is superfluous I find.

That's where I get on board with it. ;)

And, I have never seen another design that is as efficient, in nature, or imagination. Which I admit I lack severely.

Edited by psyche101

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No probs my friend, good to have you on board!

I cannot understand why though. As you say, you have a personal opinion, but logically, can the anthropomorphic argument be soundly refuted, nay challenged? With over 50 billion different shapes in our historical record, and only one shape achieving intelligence, and several times at that, I find a convincing argument. I tried for weeks to come up with an alternative plan with my very basic skills on Daz3D, but to no avail. Everything I designed that could lift, manipulate and design came up anthropomorphic. More is superfluous I find.

That's where I get on board with it. ;)

Well there is certainly the mechanical aspect to consider regarding tool creation and manipulation. You're not going to see a snail, no matter how smart, build a spacecraft. ^_^

I'm not so much challenging the anthropomorphic model as much as suggesting that there could conceivably be alternative 'frames' that could acquire the prerequisites for space travel. Look at spiders for example, 8 legs around a central body. They are strong, fast, expert climbers and can manipulate silk (which they create themselves) better than a master weaver. Given the right nudge I think a spider, or any of several insect 'types' could conceivably begin the journey from intelligence through to space flight. Note that I'm not saying insects per se. However the 'frame' of which, if given the right conditions could possibly prosper. Maybe even better than we have. :tu:

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Well there is certainly the mechanical aspect to consider regarding tool creation and manipulation. You're not going to see a snail, no matter how smart, build a spacecraft. ^_^

I'm not so much challenging the anthropomorphic model as much as suggesting that there could conceivably be alternative 'frames' that could acquire the prerequisites for space travel. Look at spiders for example, 8 legs around a central body. They are strong, fast, expert climbers and can manipulate silk (which they create themselves) better than a master weaver. Given the right nudge I think a spider, or any of several insect 'types' could conceivably begin the journey from intelligence through to space flight. Note that I'm not saying insects per se. However the 'frame' of which, if given the right conditions could possibly prosper. Maybe even better than we have. :tu:

Hey Mate

I am struggling a bit with the concept of "the frame".

I have other questions, but I think I need to understand the frame before I ask them. Not sure how the frame changes what out model has taught us?

I am also not sure how insects would achieve intelligence. With no concept of empathy or theory of mind, but purely instinctual survival, I am not sure how communications could evolve in rudimentary brain pattern? That is one of the things that forced us into an Industrial Revolution, manipulating one's environment, With adaptions to deal with the local environment in place by nature, what would prompt a brain to evolve into something that can comprehend speech and symbols? Looking at our insects, there has been no need to change insect body shapes over the course of millions of years, what would cause this to change and under what conditions?

I also place much importance on the mechanical aspect. I think it is a natural step in the evolutionary process.

Cheers.

Edited by psyche101

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The humanoid model works well...for us. :tu:

One point I had not mentioned is that we are also looking for "Life as we know it" on "earth like worlds".

Would that not also suggest earth like evolution?

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Hey Mate

I am struggling a bit with the concept of "the frame".

I have other questions, but I think I need to understand the frame before I ask them. Not sure how the frame changes what out model has taught us?

I am also not sure how insects would achieve intelligence. With no concept of empathy or theory of mind, but purely instinctual survival, I am not sure how communications could evolve in rudimentary brain pattern? That is one of the things that forced us into an Industrial Revolution, manipulating one's environment, With adaptions to deal with the local environment in place by nature, what would prompt a brain to evolve into something that can comprehend speech and symbols? Looking at our insects, there has been no need to change insect body shapes over the course of millions of years, what would cause this to change and under what conditions?

I also place much importance on the mechanical aspect. I think it is a natural step in the evolutionary process.

Cheers.

By frame I merely meant the body configuration, as in 8 legs around a central body. Or even a variation thereof. As I said, I didn't mean insects specifically however the body configuration of a spider (in something akin to mammals for example) could lend itself well to environmental manipulation. Heck, a spider is practically a 'hand' all by itself. How is that not efficient? Who needs more hands when your entire body can manipulate objects as well (or better) as an 8 fingered hand attached to the rest of a body could?

I don't know, I'm just fleshing out the idea so far as I haven't given it a great deal of thought yet. I'm just kind of running with the spider thing at the moment, however I still think it is a possibility. You say you haven't seen anything that could discredit the anthropomorphic model yet I haven't seen anything to suggest it is paramount either. That's all I'm really getting at. It very well could be the base model for intelligent space faring beings, though to be honest I don't relish the idea much. Life is too wildly varied. So much so that I would be a bit disappointed if it were that way. Perhaps I have taken in too much sci-fi over the years. ^_^:tu:

Edit: clarification.

Edited by Slave2Fate

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By frame I merely meant the body configuration, as in 8 legs around a central body. Or even a variation thereof. As I said, I didn't mean insects specifically however the body configuration of a spider (in something akin to mammals for example) could lend itself well to environmental manipulation. Heck, a spider is practically a 'hand' all by itself. How is that not efficient? Who needs more hands when your entire body can manipulate objects as well (or better) as an 8 fingered hand attached to the rest of a body could?

I don't know, I'm just fleshing out the idea so far as I haven't given it a great deal of thought yet. I'm just kind of running with the spider thing at the moment, however I still think it is a possibility. You say you haven't seen anything that could discredit the anthropomorphic model yet I haven't seen anything to suggest it is paramount either. That's all I'm really getting at. It very well could be the base model for intelligent space faring beings, though to be honest I don't relish the idea much. Life is too wildly varied. So much so that I would be a bit disappointed if it were that way. Perhaps I have taken in too much sci-fi over the years. ^_^:tu:

Edit: clarification.

Mate best concept so far I have seen offered to date, but I think we still have some serious problems with leverage. If a creature could say "spin a starship" it would have to be powered, I do not think we can get away from mining and the like when it comes to space travel, but I look forward to discussing this further. I think the next step is resources and how they can be attained and managed.

And I think the "hand" need an "arm" to manipulate.

But I will put more thought into it, now that I "get" the frame, but I must sign off, it's my daughters birthday today (8), and I am going to take her out for her Favourite dinner. - Don't ask LOL. :tu:

Edited by psyche101
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One point I had not mentioned is that we are also looking for "Life as we know it" on "earth like worlds".

Would that not also suggest earth like evolution?

Possibly, yes. However it still hasn't been definitively shown that life could only exist or evolve on 'earth like worlds'. Not that I'm trying to imply that anything is possible however we don't fully know just yet what is or isn't possible to be honest.

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One point I had not mentioned is that we are also looking for "Life as we know it" on "earth like worlds".

Would that not also suggest earth like evolution?

So more like Dinosaurs then?

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Mate best concept so far I have seen offered to date, but I think we still have some serious problems with leverage. If a creature could say "spin a starship" it would have to be powered, I do not think we can get away from mining and the like when it comes to space travel, but I look forward to discussing this further. I think the next step is resources and how they can be attained and managed.

And I think the "hand" need an "arm" to manipulate.

But I will put more thought into it, now that I "get" the frame, but I must sign off, it's my daughters birthday today (8), and I am going to take her out for her Favourite dinner. - Don't ask LOL. :tu:

Wish your daughter a Happy Birthday from those of us state-side. :tu:

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Mate best concept so far I have seen offered to date, but I think we still have some serious problems with leverage. If a creature could say "spin a starship" it would have to be powered, I do not think we can get away from mining and the like when it comes to space travel, but I look forward to discussing this further. I think the next step is resources and how they can be attained and managed.

And I think the "hand" need an "arm" to manipulate.

But I will put more thought into it, now that I "get" the frame, but I must sign off, it's my daughters birthday today (8), and I am going to take her out for her Favourite dinner. - Don't ask LOL. :tu:

As to the leverage, yes an arm does give strength to the hand. A spider model actually has 8 hands at the end of their legs. Well, hooks anyway, but I don't see any reason why there couldn't be some sort of evolutionary variation there. The design couples full body manipulation as well as fine manipulation with individual limbs. Imagine the kind of contraptions that 8 limbs could manipulate! It would make driving a manual transmission or even something like flying a helicopter look like child's play. Also, a lever is one of the earliest tools made by man, so why not another intelligent species on the other side of the universe? The advent of tools greatly modifies the range of abilities of the tool user. :tu:

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