Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3
Professor T

Bombs away in Israel & Gaza.. Again...

244 posts in this topic

And the Israeli side will tell you that all they want is to live on the land in peace. So "oppression" is a loaded term in that place. The lunacy that IS this conflict is that the world is actually helpless to stop it and must bring pressure on the only rational party to the conflict - Israel - because the Palestinian side will not, CANNOT, make peace. For them to make peace renders the PA and Hamas impotent. On the other side, any pol who actually brought peace to Israel without giving up Jerusalem would be hailed a hero by 80% or more of the population. This conflict will probably fade again, probably, but it cannot be solved until one side or the other actually wins through to dominance. I know this sounds harsh - maybe even like warmongering, but it's just the truth of the personalities on the ground. I've watched it unfold with my own eyes for about 40 years now and the pattern is unmistakeable. If a ground invasion begins then Egypt might intercede on Hamas' behalf. From there it would probably very quickly become an all out brutal, fight 'til the last dog dies conflict. Hussein of Jordan is beginning to really struggle with elements of the Muslim Brotherhood so he might have to jump in to save his monarchy. It's amazing how much things have stayed the same politically since the '67 war. From my reading of Israel's military capabilities I sense that the only thing that stops them from casting absolute ruin on their enemies is the desire for a future chance of peace. That and the awful cost in lives of their own sons and daughters. Ironically, if Israel is pushed or stumbles into a broader war then it will actually free them to be much more...err..efficient in their use of their power - much less restrained. The world would howl in anger but the world is always howling in anger at them so no news there. Danger ahead whether a ceasefire holds or not.

If anything, I started this thread in the hope of showing people how the world reacts to conflicts like this, and how nations at and react to events such as these.. The way nations take sides in conflicts, who pick "a winning team" or use rational, religion, politics, morals, public opinion, propaganda, media, you name it the list goes on.. The conflict is loaded with every trick in the book. Most of us pick sides, I know which side I lean towards, as do you.. And it's damn hard to try and drop that way of thinking when you see what is happening, but it sure let's you see things a hell of a lot clearer..

If one side of the conflict was "alowed" to win, it would do nothing for the cause of peace imo because of the division this conflict has caused in the world. If israel got it all their way and took gaza, I can't imagine other nations in the world being to pleased about that, and it would cause an even wider and long lived conflict... And likewise, if the Palestinians took israel, it would be no different.. The division there at the moment, is causing division elsewhere in the world in places such as Jordan, Bahrain..

I think the only long term solution is for the rest of the world to stop picking sides, the rest of the world to step in and remove power from both sides.. With no Bombs and rockets at their disposal, and with both cultures under the governemnt of a world body, they will have no choice but to live together. It would take a long time to mend the kind of hatered felt towards each other, but time does heal. and eventually, they would stand united.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drones still flying in Gaza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anything, I started this thread in the hope of showing people how the world reacts to conflicts like this, and how nations at and react to events such as these.. The way nations take sides in conflicts, who pick "a winning team" or use rational, religion, politics, morals, public opinion, propaganda, media, you name it the list goes on.. The conflict is loaded with every trick in the book. Most of us pick sides, I know which side I lean towards, as do you.. And it's damn hard to try and drop that way of thinking when you see what is happening, but it sure let's you see things a hell of a lot clearer..

If one side of the conflict was "alowed" to win, it would do nothing for the cause of peace imo because of the division this conflict has caused in the world. If israel got it all their way and took gaza, I can't imagine other nations in the world being to pleased about that, and it would cause an even wider and long lived conflict... And likewise, if the Palestinians took israel, it would be no different.. The division there at the moment, is causing division elsewhere in the world in places such as Jordan, Bahrain..

I think the only long term solution is for the rest of the world to stop picking sides, the rest of the world to step in and remove power from both sides.. With no Bombs and rockets at their disposal, and with both cultures under the governemnt of a world body, they will have no choice but to live together. It would take a long time to mend the kind of hatered felt towards each other, but time does heal. and eventually, they would stand united.

Prof I asked another person this same question - WHO will disarm a nation that genuinely feels it might be threatened with annihilation by it's enemies if it could not fight? This is not a minor point. From my perspective it always gets back to Israel disarming and they simply won't do this. And if the governments of the world COULD have accomplished this we would not still be dealing with this issue 65 years on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drones still flying in Gaza

Was cessation of drone over flight a part of the agreement? They didn't give much detail about the details....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is good news! It remains to be seen if Hamas has this amount of control over the splinter groups in it's territory but at least it means Egypt is being serious about tamping down the flames.

This is the main problem and has been for a long time. Groups like Islamic Jihad also operate in Gaza and it is often them who launch rocket attacks. The ironic thing is that while Hamas have tried at times, over the years, to stem and stop rocket fire, the blockade which Israel claims is enforced to stop said rocket fire, actually contributes to their inability at times to stop these splinter groups. They have not been given the opportunity to govern and police properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prof I asked another person this same question - WHO will disarm a nation that genuinely feels it might be threatened with annihilation by it's enemies if it could not fight? This is not a minor point. From my perspective it always gets back to Israel disarming and they simply won't do this. And if the governments of the world COULD have accomplished this we would not still be dealing with this issue 65 years on...

At the moment, no-one can..

To many problems exist for my theory to take shape.

The main one being that other world bodies take sides and try to justify it.

The other main problem being that the only world body capable of such a feat hasn't got the dangly bits to pull it off..

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here it is:

Israel shall stop all hostilities in the Gaza Strip land sea and air, including incursions and targeting of individuals.

- All Palestinian factions shall stop all hostilities from the Gaza Strip against Israel, including rocket attacks and all attacks along the border.

- Opening the crossings and facilitating the movement of people and transfer of goods and refraining from restricting residents' free movements and targeting residents in border areas. Procedures of implementation shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the ceasefire.

- Other matters as may be requested shall be addressed.

Implementation mechanism

- Setting up the zero hour understanding to enter into effect.

- Egypt shall receive assurances from each party that the party commits to what was agreed upon.

- Each party shall commit itself not to perform any acts that would breach this understanding. In case of any observations, Egypt as a sponsor of this understanding, shall be informed to follow up.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like Egypt was the main player to get the ceasefire so good on them for getting it done.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like Egypt was the main player to get the ceasefire so good on them for getting it done.

You have to wonder wether the US twisted their arm a little,but all for the Good.Lets see how long this one holds for.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://app.response.stratfor.com/e/es?s=1483&e=613334&elq=acfb8bb63e43442696f09189fbc9853b

This company has been referred to as the private citizen's CIA...they provide good intel on a broad range of topics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hamas have actually stated that the goal of the rockets is primarily to show resistance and to spread fear throughout Israelis the way Israel does in Occupied Territories. Simply stating that you are going to blow up suicide bombs is in no way a more effective method of spreading fear than firing rockets that so often they impact the everyday lives of citizens.

And what better way to instill fear and dread into Israeli citizens than kill a few of them?

Sorry, I apologise. I read recently there had been no deaths in 3 years. According to Wiki that figure is wrong, there had been 8.

Fine.

And I didn't say there aren't for killing. I stated that killing was not their primary desired effect. Spreading fear and terror was.

Killing is just as an effective way to spread terror. Hence why most terrorist attacks have the primary objective of killing as many people as possible.

The definition was given with regards to German occupation. It was stated that because Germany still controlled the land, sea and air and the movement of the people of the country, they still technically occupied them.

Germany was occupied because the Allies actually had troops and such there controlling movements and such.

There are many reasons for Gaza to still be defined as occupied.

And all of them are inside that head of yours.

I have NEVER said that.

You have. Do you wish for me to extract said quote from a forum search?

An entity? What are you talking about? I was referring, obviously, to the Israeli government.

Let's read what you said:

So you would be of the view that Israel is a terrorist organisation?

Now, what part of that says the government? Hmm? I

In your opinion they would be, but by definition, they are not.

I can't imagine that you would be of differing opinion either, given your posting history.

But you see, using the definition of terrorism means that they cannot be defined as such. If they could be, every British, Israeli and American government that has ever existed, would be defined as terrorists.

Actually, it would depend on the actions they took. Would the administration of FDR for example be defined as terrorists?

No one recognises it as the legitimate government of Palestine?

Some countries recognise it as part of the government, but none prefer it over Fatah, for obvious reasons. Hell, Hamas even says it has plans to create an independent Gaza controlled by them only.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/07/31/229595.html

They won a free and fair election for all the World to witness.

Point? Just because a government wins fair elections doesn't mean that its actions it did afterwards can be considered legitimate or democratic.

They are recognised as the legitimate government of the Palestinians, almost worldwide (the U.S., "the EU" and Israel do not recognise them).

No they are not. The PLO are recognised as the sole representative of the Palestinian people and they are the ones that have diplomatic recognition by all of the countries that formally recognise Palestine as an independent state. The PLO and the Palestinian Authority get all the funding from international organisations such as the Arab League. Hamas get their support from Iran.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ceasefire still holding..

This is promicing..

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ceasefire still holding..

This is promicing..

:)

I doubt it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt it.

Cynicism noted..

While a long term solution may be a long way off, stoping the bloodshed is a promicing start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh Cr.p..

Israeli military has confirmed that at least five rockets had been fired at Israel from Gaza since the implementation of the ceasefire. “We have counted five rockets fired from Gaza since 21:00 Wednesday,” the Israeli military's press service told Ria Novosti. “Three of them landed in Israel, while two were intercepted. We did not fire back.” Earlier Reuters reported that 12 rockets were fired from Gaza, citing a police source.

But at least the IDF havn't responded.. Good on em..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh Cr.p..

Israeli military has confirmed that at least five rockets had been fired at Israel from Gaza since the implementation of the ceasefire. “We have counted five rockets fired from Gaza since 21:00 Wednesday,” the Israeli military's press service told Ria Novosti. “Three of them landed in Israel, while two were intercepted. We did not fire back.” Earlier Reuters reported that 12 rockets were fired from Gaza, citing a police source.

But at least the IDF havn't responded.. Good on em..

They probably didn't fire back because they understand it wasn't Hamas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They probably didn't fire back because they understand it wasn't Hamas.

Restraint is good up to a point. But this is the pattern that led to an increasing volume from 2009 up until yesterday. It seems Israel will either accept some rocket fire or go to full scale war. Not much of a choice really. Lose, lose. Though I suspect that if more rockets trickle in after 24 hours the answer may be different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They probably didn't fire back because they understand it wasn't Hamas.

It was but they didn't fire back because then the ceasfire will fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was but they didn't fire back because then the ceasfire will fail.

Hamas agreed to the ceasefire as well. How do you know it was them and not one of the many other groups operating in the Gaza Strip?

The reason I am sure it was not Hamas is because Israel did not retaliate.

During certain past ceasefires Israel has recognised that Hamas has held true to their end and stopped rockets, while also trying to stop others. They understand, however, that Hamas do not have the ability to stop every attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hamas agreed to the ceasefire as well. How do you know it was them and not one of the many other groups operating in the Gaza Strip?

The reason I am sure it was not Hamas is because Israel did not retaliate.

During certain past ceasefires Israel has recognised that Hamas has held true to their end and stopped rockets, while also trying to stop others. They understand, however, that Hamas do not have the ability to stop every attack.

Like I said if Israel retaliated then the ceasfire will fail

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I said if Israel retaliated then the ceasfire will fail

If Hamas attacked then the ceasefire will fail also. What you talking about?

You said it was Hamas that fired the rockets. I disagreed, largely because Israel did not retaliate. Do you have proof that Hamas was responsible for the rockets after the ceasefire? Do you realise that a lot of the time it isn't even Hamas firing the rockets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is awesome!

http://ca.news.yahoo...-214301878.html

The simple photograph showed two men standing in midtown Manhattan holding cardboard signs.

One sign reads, "I'm Jewish and I am from Israel."

Another reads, "I'm Muslim and I am from Palestine."

Together the men hold a third sign: "Why can't we all just get along?"

*trying to get image to work. It shows up in the message until I save the changes. Follow the link to see it.

Edited by glorybebe
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to think that israel didn't fire back because they knew that if they did (regardless of who pulled the trigger) the ceasefire would be ruined, and that is in no-body's best interest right now.

Ultimately though, while it is great that both sides are standing back from the brink, I don't think this is going to last unless even greater efforts are made to lift the blockade and for the world to put pressure on both sides towards creating a more permanent peace treaty. I'm talking pressure, not support... Egypt, USA, every nation should me feeding pressure to their sides of the conflict to create a permanent peace treaty, and to stop this BS on and off again war that has been going on since 1948.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hamas agreed to the ceasefire as well. How do you know it was them and not one of the many other groups operating in the Gaza Strip?

You do realise that the Al-Qassam Brigade is the military wing of Hamas, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed. But I am also aware that the two are not always in sync with each other. Besides, I was not referring to them in the above statement..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 3

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.