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UFOs from Earth

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As a serious UFO researcher, only one thing is clear: UFOs are man-made aircraft. That's the answer.

From Keyhoe, to the nonsense written by Hynek to the Condon Report, and let me throw in the science-fantasy writers John Keel and Jacques Vallee. The last two at least wrote interesting prose but with zero evidence.

From the official start of the UFO issue in 1947, it was made clear that such aircraft could be built with 1947 technology. That according to T-3 Engineering at Wright Field and interrogation reports in existence at the time. Scientists working on these craft in the US had to keep it all secret. There could be no official investigation. Not by scientists. Individuals were regularly ridiculed. Just look up the CERVIS-MERINT document for reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings. The report had to be made immediately and it includes a drawing of what cannot be mistaken for anything else - a flying saucer. Their primary purpose? Totally covert aerial reconnaissance. Defense contractors need to build things so the U-2 and then the SR-71 were trotted out as the best we could do. The goal is to always deceive the enemy, to create doubt.

So the military and scientists, along with public officials, have been laughing this all off for decades. Why? The saucers were to be our secret weapon during the Cold War. Sure, the optics could be replaced with the same warhead used on the Atomic Cannon in 1953. No one knew how many saucers were real and making them hoaxes, illusions and so on, just kept everyone guessing. There is no longer any reason not to believe that by the end of 1957, at the latest, supersonic saucers were conducting regular flights over denied areas.

Why sacrifice our own, along with the British? Check your history books. The British knew their tanks were inferior but sent them to fight the German variety anyway.

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As a serious UFO researcher, only one thing is clear: UFOs are man-made aircraft. That's the answer.

And atmospheric phenomena? There has to be room made for them as well. Misidentified aircraft are all well and good however I believe there is a bit more to the UFO enigma than that. :tu:

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It didn't start in 1947.

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You are partially right, of course, but when it comes to UFOs many people are partially right, including me. I don't know of anyone who is 100% right, though, including me.

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As a serious UFO researcher, only one thing is clear: UFOs are man-made aircraft. That's the answer.

I don't doupt that some genuine crafts are "home made" or that some are "imports"

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I have to echo S2F here. There is clear and conclusive evidence that some UFO's are indeed natural phenomena.

But with regards to space, no UFO has ever been tracked leaving the atmosphere and out into space, or vice versa. That's quite a biggie that everyone overlooks IMHO.

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But with regards to space, no UFO has ever been tracked leaving the atmosphere and out into space, or vice versa. That's quite a biggie that everyone overlooks IMHO.

Or that could be interpreted as another part of the coverup.. I don't think there are any civilian tracking stations? aren't they all government run..

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I have to echo S2F here. There is clear and conclusive evidence that some UFO's are indeed natural phenomena.

But with regards to space, no UFO has ever been tracked leaving the atmosphere and out into space, or vice versa. That's quite a biggie that everyone overlooks IMHO.

As far as I know, the first ones that were tracked up on the edge of space or at very high altitudes were in 1946-47, which was the first time any technology existed that was able to detect them up there at 50, 100 or 200 miles.

If you look up Robert Sarbacher again, you will find he was involved with some of these early efforts using V-2 rockets to get pictures of UFOs at that time, and then there were the very early radar trackings and reports from the balloon scientists that noted these very high-speed objects at extremely high altitudes.

These things simply shouldn't have been there because we had nothing that could fly that high or at those speeds then. This was a major problem, which is why they really wanted to knock some down and get a closer look at them.

President Truman first gave that order in 1947.

Edited by TheMacGuffin

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As far as I know, the first ones that were tracked up on the edge of space or at very high altitudes were in 1946-47, which was the first time any technology existed that was able to detect them up there at 50, 100 or 200 miles.

If you look up Robert Sarbacher again, you will find he was involved with some of these early efforts using V-2 rockets to get pictures of UFOs at that time, and then there were the very early radar trackings and reports from the balloon scientists that noted these very high-speed objects at extremely high altitudes.

These things simply shouldn't have been there because we had nothing that could fly that high or at those speeds then. This was a major problem, which is why they really wanted to knock some down and get a closer look at them.

President Truman first gave that order in 1947.

Good examples, however, not one has been tracked leaving Earth to the best of my knowledge. It would be nice to say "That UFO headed out towards the Orion System" sort of thing. Like with the WOW! Signal.

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Or that could be interpreted as another part of the coverup.. I don't think there are any civilian tracking stations? aren't they all government run..

No, the least two Jupiter strikes were reported to NASA, who were unaware of them, by amateur astronomers. Same one in fact. I also belong to an Astronomy forum where the man who saw and reported the stikes posts, Anthony "Birdstrike" Wesley. I dabble in astronomy myself, and the community is much larger than most realise. I honestly cannot see anything getting past them.

And at $550.00 au for a 10" Dob, brand new, who wouldn't be :D

And anyone can book time at one's local observatory, I have been meaning to book my local (Springbrook) out for some time now. Too much work unfortunately of late.

Check this out. I Love these pics. These are at a star party. Sadly my local is not on this year, but early next because of the recent eclipse, which I know you saw :D

250px-Telescope_trailer_22.jpgstarparty2003_scopes.jpgflo-STAR-9.jpgimg_4399-500x375.jpg

2nd Jupiter Strike - LINK

.

Edited by psyche101
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Or that could be interpreted as another part of the coverup.. I don't think there are any civilian tracking stations? aren't they all government run..

Psyche is right of course. There are private observers and "civilian" astronomers all over the world.

A cover-up would be impossible.

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Damn they are some cool Telescopes...

Mine is just a 6" Newtonian.. Can see some pretty cool stuff with it though... Tracking satellites is damn hard though, let alone trying to capture a UO travelling at whatever speed they travel at.. especially considering the size of sky one is observing at the time.. Sure you have near perfect view of the night sky through a telescope, but in reality you are looking at perhaps 0.0001% of it, and anything travelling past the eyepiece will be gone in flash..

In saying that though, I've only had it a year.. am not that experienced.

Edited by Professor T

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Damn they are some cool Telescopes...

Mine is just a 6" Newtonian.. Can see some pretty cool stuff with it though... Tracking satellites is damn hard though, let alone trying to capture a UO travelling at whatever speed they travel at.. especially considering the size of sky one is observing at the time.. Sure you have near perfect view of the night sky through a telescope, but in reality you are looking at perhaps 0.0001% of it, and anything travelling past the eyepiece will be gone in flash..

In saying that though, I've only had it a year.. am not that experienced.

They are awesome, there should be a star party happening in NZ, it is worth looking them up. Great camping, and you guys have a much better place to camp than we do :D

And if they can track an asteroid, they can track a spaceship. Some of those massive babies manage to attain 30 times the speed of a bullet! But that is what makes a basketball sized asteroid create a basketball court sized crater. Kinetic energy. Oh yeah, ETA, I will try my best to remember to PM you next time a shower is expected, quite a show! Wait till you see a fireball in that eyepiece!

I started up again with a 4" Celestron, you can get some good viewing out of one of those. I would suggest an astronomy forum, those guys are awesome for advice, and very patient. Top blokes. Real big help if you ever have to collimate. Tracking is easier on the Dob, the 10" mirror collects much light, and mine was $550.00 aussie brand new. They have one heck of a bang for your buck.

I would like to bring mine over to the South Island next year, if you are down that way, we should catch up! I'll be heading to Queenstown, just not sure when yet. Moon will be good for you, how do you go with Jupiter? You should be able to make out the bands?

Edited by psyche101
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I started up again with a 4" Celestron, you can get some good viewing out of one of those. I would suggest an astronomy forum, those guys are awesome for advice, and very patient. Top blokes. Real big help if you ever have to collimate. Tracking is easier of the Dob, the 10" mirror collects much light, and mine was $550.00 aussie brand new. They have one heck of a bang for your buck.

I would like to bring mine over to the South Island next year, if you are down that way, we should catch up! I'll be heading to Queenstown, just not sure when yet. Moon will be good for you, how do you go with Jupiter? You should be able to make out the bands?

Queenstown, darn, I'm on the north Island.

Jupiter rocks.. I can usually see some banding, plus the four main moons..

Saturn.. Yep, can see the rings...

The Moon is utterly facinating... The details you can get are out of this world.. (lame pun intended)

But what really get's me going is the random stuff, finding a random a tiny smudge in the sky, then looking through the eyepiece and seeing a cluster of a hundred stars.. Or occasionally catching a grain of sand streaking a white-hot tail in the eyepiece overhead that no-one else on earth saw or will ever see again..

Oop's, bit off topic..... no man-made ufo's though.. But looking at a 747's through a telescope... Hillarious...

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Good examples, however, not one has been tracked leaving Earth to the best of my knowledge. It would be nice to say "That UFO headed out towards the Orion System" sort of thing. Like with the WOW! Signal.

Given the equipment that existed at that time in the 1940s, they would not have been able to track these objects way out into deep space. All they could say that something was flying around at very high altitudes and it could not be identified as anything that was produced on earth.

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A question.

The astronauts on route to the Moon on different missions reported strange anomalies.

This is in the 60's.

Ideas?

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As a serious UFO researcher, only one thing is clear: UFOs are man-made aircraft. That's the answer.

Well, guess we can shut down this section of the website then.

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As a serious UFO researcher, only one thing is clear: UFOs are man-made aircraft. That's the answer.

From Keyhoe, to the nonsense written by Hynek to the Condon Report, and let me throw in the science-fantasy writers John Keel and Jacques Vallee. The last two at least wrote interesting prose but with zero evidence.

From the official start of the UFO issue in 1947, it was made clear that such aircraft could be built with 1947 technology. That according to T-3 Engineering at Wright Field and interrogation reports in existence at the time. Scientists working on these craft in the US had to keep it all secret. There could be no official investigation. Not by scientists. Individuals were regularly ridiculed. Just look up the CERVIS-MERINT document for reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings. The report had to be made immediately and it includes a drawing of what cannot be mistaken for anything else - a flying saucer. Their primary purpose? Totally covert aerial reconnaissance. Defense contractors need to build things so the U-2 and then the SR-71 were trotted out as the best we could do. The goal is to always deceive the enemy, to create doubt.

So the military and scientists, along with public officials, have been laughing this all off for decades. Why? The saucers were to be our secret weapon during the Cold War. Sure, the optics could be replaced with the same warhead used on the Atomic Cannon in 1953. No one knew how many saucers were real and making them hoaxes, illusions and so on, just kept everyone guessing. There is no longer any reason not to believe that by the end of 1957, at the latest, supersonic saucers were conducting regular flights over denied areas.

Why sacrifice our own, along with the British? Check your history books. The British knew their tanks were inferior but sent them to fight the German variety anyway.

Serious researcher in what way? What methods? What case studies have you examined? What testimonies have you read.

I suggest you start all over again instead of posting this dismissive nonsense.

Edited by zoser

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As a serious UFO researcher, only one thing is clear: UFOs are man-made aircraft. That's the answer.

From Keyhoe, to the nonsense written by Hynek to the Condon Report, and let me throw in the science-fantasy writers John Keel and Jacques Vallee. The last two at least wrote interesting prose but with zero evidence.

From the official start of the UFO issue in 1947, it was made clear that such aircraft could be built with 1947 technology. That according to T-3 Engineering at Wright Field and interrogation reports in existence at the time. Scientists working on these craft in the US had to keep it all secret. There could be no official investigation. Not by scientists. Individuals were regularly ridiculed. Just look up the CERVIS-MERINT document for reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings. The report had to be made immediately and it includes a drawing of what cannot be mistaken for anything else - a flying saucer. Their primary purpose? Totally covert aerial reconnaissance. Defense contractors need to build things so the U-2 and then the SR-71 were trotted out as the best we could do. The goal is to always deceive the enemy, to create doubt.

So the military and scientists, along with public officials, have been laughing this all off for decades. Why? The saucers were to be our secret weapon during the Cold War. Sure, the optics could be replaced with the same warhead used on the Atomic Cannon in 1953. No one knew how many saucers were real and making them hoaxes, illusions and so on, just kept everyone guessing. There is no longer any reason not to believe that by the end of 1957, at the latest, supersonic saucers were conducting regular flights over denied areas.

Why sacrifice our own, along with the British? Check your history books. The British knew their tanks were inferior but sent them to fight the German variety anyway.

really? So, starting with our old friend Kenneth Arnold back in 1947, there've been aircraft developed in absolute secrecy (plausible), and then flown in full view of the public and any passing civilian aviator, but yet they were still kept secret, and not only then, but they've still been kept secret for 60 years? :unsure2: I'm afraid that seems way beyond the realms of plausibility. And exactly the same applies for more recent attributions of UFO Sigthings to Secret aircraft; they let them be seen publicly, even to the extent of flying them at low altitude and slowly, with lights blazing, over major cities,but yet they still manage to keep them Secret so that you won't find any reference to any of them in any reputable source or any aviation publication? I'm afraid that really doesn't seem very likely to me. :no:

Where incidentally do WWII tanks come into it? What have they got to to with UFOs or secret Aircraft? :unsure2:

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really? So, starting with our old friend Kenneth Arnold back in 1947, there've been aircraft developed in absolute secrecy (plausible), and then flown in full view of the public and any passing civilian aviator, but yet they were still kept secret, and not only then, but they've still been kept secret for 60 years? :unsure2: I'm afraid that seems way beyond the realms of plausibility. And exactly the same applies for more recent attributions of UFO Sigthings to Secret aircraft; they let them be seen publicly, even to the extent of flying them at low altitude and slowly, with lights blazing, over major cities,but yet they still manage to keep them Secret so that you won't find any reference to any of them in any reputable source or any aviation publication? I'm afraid that really doesn't seem very likely to me. :no:

Where incidentally do WWII tanks come into it? What have they got to to with UFOs or secret Aircraft? :unsure2:

It's not very often I agree with you Mr Omsk but our views intersect this time like two non parallel straight lines.

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I have to echo S2F here. There is clear and conclusive evidence that some UFO's are indeed natural phenomena.

But with regards to space, no UFO has ever been tracked leaving the atmosphere and out into space, or vice versa. That's quite a biggie that everyone overlooks IMHO.

this is an objection that you often bring up, but could it not simply be that, when in what you might call "spaceflight" mode, they wouldnt' be visible to the eye? It could simply be that some byproduct of the propulsion system deflects light, or absorbs it, much in fact as I believe our own Scientists are experimenting with for military purposes here on earth. It needn't be deliberate, or for any Nefarious purpose, it might just be how they work. Maybe they just go too quickly to be spotted.

And that's before we consider questions of dimensional jumps or anything else.

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Serious researcher in what way? What methods? What case studies have you examined? What testimonies have you read.

I suggest you start all over again instead of posting this dismissive nonsense.

On the contrary, what you and most here post is dismissive nonsense. Look up CIRVIS-MERINT. Look up the various versions of JANAP 146 (A), issued in 1950, to start.

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On the contrary, what you and most here post is dismissive nonsense. Look up CIRVIS-MERINT. Look up the various versions of JANAP 146 (A), issued in 1950, to start.

i tell you what, why don't you tell us? people telling everybody to do their homework does get a bit tiresome. What do CIRVS-INERT and JANAP 746(A) have to offer?

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Queenstown, darn, I'm on the north Island.

Jupiter rocks.. I can usually see some banding, plus the four main moons..

Saturn.. Yep, can see the rings...

The Moon is utterly facinating... The details you can get are out of this world.. (lame pun intended)

But what really get's me going is the random stuff, finding a random a tiny smudge in the sky, then looking through the eyepiece and seeing a cluster of a hundred stars.. Or occasionally catching a grain of sand streaking a white-hot tail in the eyepiece overhead that no-one else on earth saw or will ever see again..

Oop's, bit off topic..... no man-made ufo's though.. But looking at a 747's through a telescope... Hillarious...

:D It just keeps getting better. It sounds like you have stumbled on Messier Objects, the Butterfly Cluster is particularly spectacular I find.

Finding a plane in a telescope is very doable, this A320 photo was taken through a telescope.

img_2774_lh_a32082mr.jpg

LINK

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Given the equipment that existed at that time in the 1940s, they would not have been able to track these objects way out into deep space. All they could say that something was flying around at very high altitudes and it could not be identified as anything that was produced on earth.

But not the case in the 50's 60's and 70's which provided ample opportunity.

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