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Big Bad Voodoo

Atlantis was in West Africa

117 posts in this topic

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbethY9SDgE[/media]

This seems to be the most legit and believable explanation of atlantis that I've come across. Let me know what you guys think.

Just about everything in the of Atlantis tale points to the islands of Crete and Thera, but one red hering. When the egyptain priest said- And the name of his younger twin-brother, who had for his portion the extremity of the island near the pillars of Herakles up to the part of the country now called Gadeira after the name of that region, was Eumelos in Greek, but in the native tongue Gadeiros,--which fact may have given its title to the country.

Now the priest was speaking of now as being in the 6th century bc when the tale was told to Solon, so if the pillers were at Rhodes, where was this country then called Gaderia in the Agean sea?

Was it Melos? and where was the pillars?

http://0.tqn.com/d/ancienthistory/1/0/p/8/3/shepherd-c-004.jpg

Edited by docyabut2

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I actually think the snake waving (of the Cretan priestesses) was a possible summoning the snake spirits, people don't wave things in the air in rituals like this for nothing, they were a kind of receptor of the actual spirit. The cult of Athena I think is connected to this ritual. The same as Hermes staff, with snakes on it too - snake spirit receptors. Snakes are everywhere in Athens, especially in myth.

Its possible.

I like you Puzzler because you are not affraid to think. You are aware that you will not get brain tumor from thinking. Many people todays think that their head will explode if they see things from different angles.

Sanotrini or Thera eruption was around 1525-1500 BC. But it wasnt destroyed Minoans. They civilization flourished from 2700 BC and continued after 1500. Minoans were bronze age civilization, small comparing to existing in that time such as Egypt,Mesoptamia and Hittites. They were like third world compared to those. And who knows how many things is lost. When Evans start to dig he must first buy land then he dig with damaging speed. Because Crete was under Ottomans around 1900. We dont know how many population was there on Crete. There only destroyed Akrotiri. Bronze age civilization on Crete was possibly destroyed when Hittites vanished. Maybe after battle of Kadesh Hittites were weaken so when strong Assyrians came and defeated them at battle in north Mesopotamia when Hittites were under Tudhaliya IV, son of Hatussili. 1237 to 1209 was decline of Hittites. After him only four rulers ruled Hittites. But I will come backlater to Hittites. What I want to say is that Minoans were multi ethnic civilization. They traded with Egypt and with Hittites. Gods know from where topless priestes with snakes came from, or bull skipping sport. From Crete to Africa is nothing. So did they came from Lybia? Who knows what Linear A is hiding from us? From where it cames those cryptogram script with 80 signs?

To continue.

@all

Who doesnt like Greeks? Who didnt hear about Delphi Oracle, Persian Wars, Alcibaldes, Alexander the Great, Lysander, Leonidas, Alexandria library. Which contained many precious books for example three volumes of history of the world written by Babylonian priest Berrosus which is now lost.First book was from creation of the world till great flood. Myths such as Centaurs, Cerberus three headed dog, Oedipus complex, Medusa, Theseus and Minotaur and Labirinth, Body of an Adonis,12 Herculean tasks, Zeus, Hades, Poseidon, Jason and the Argonauts, Odysseus, beautiful Aphrodite. Orgies in secret cults such as Cults of Cybele, Dionysian Mysteries, Eleusinian Mysteries.(btw as Carl Sagan proposed looks like orgies, earthcentric views, slavery, myths and demigods, comedies and tragedies prevailed instead smart Ionians. ) Person who didnt do politic was consider to be idiot. Thats origin of that word. So they all participate in politics.Anyway in Greece all start with Homer. But how come that Greece have had all smart,clever,thinkers,inventors,philosophers,tacticians like: Democritus, Aristarchus, Anaxagoras, Empedocles, Philo of Byzantium, Ctesibius, Hero of Alexandria, Pindar, Plato, Thales, Anaximander, Theodorus, Leucippus, Zeno of Elea, Parmenides, Demosthenes, Xenophanes, Thucydides, Heraclitus of Ephesus, Hesiod, Archimedes, Pythagoras, Euclid, Ptolemy, Themistocles, Socrates, Plutarch, Pericles, Alcibaldes, Aristotle, Euripides, Alexander, Menander, Lysander, Aristophanes, Sophocles, Herodotus, Hippocrates, Eratosthenes, Leonidas, Aeschylus. To name a few.

We can trace origin of intellect of Aristotele. Socrates-Plato-Aristotele-Alexander or Socrates-Alcibaldes. Anaximander-Pythagoras. But who teached Thales? Or Socrates? We see that when Greeks came in touch with Egypt they flourished. Islam also flourished after tooking antique writtings from Egypt. So did Greeks came for knowledge in Africa or Africa came to them? Todays Historians almost agrees that Leucippus (teacher of Democritus) isnt founder of atomism. That atomism came from Phoenican Mochus of Sidon. Hero of Alexandria aeolipile or steam engine isnt Heros engine. Vitruvius mentioned that engine before Hero. So we see that source of knowledge is somewhere hidden. We just like to link inventions. Steam engine-Heron, Atomism-Leucippus, Hippocrates-Medicine (Like there wasnt medicine in Egypt).What about their special abilities or secret knowledge that we are not able to do even in today so called modern futuristic era? Anaximander of Miletus could predict Earthquakes. His pupil Pythagoras was also been able to do it. I could realy spent hours and hours writting achivements of Greeks. Even just I mentioned above and none more. Then we know that Greeks have had pyramids. Who created them? We know famous Pyramid of Hellinikon. Pausanias wrote it was a tomb. But he also wrote that two more pyramids in Greece exist one 20 miles southwest of Hellenikon which are both lost. It isnt big as Khufus pyramid but Thermoluminescence dating of stones on greek pyramid dates pyramid 2710 BC. Older then Khufu for 150 years.

Edited by the L

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@Parsec

Troy aside.

Alexis Papdopoulos diving in 1979 discover city under the sea. Untill Dora Katsonopoulou and Steven Soter rediscovered the city in 2001 we thought that Greek city Helike was myth. In fact Helike was real city in Achaea , which was destroyed by earthquake and tsunami which submerged city in 373 BC. Some connect Helike with Atlantis due fact that Plato lived when tsunami hit the city. In adding we found coins with Poseidon. Homer wrote that they sent one ship against Trojans while Crete sent 90 ships for comparation. So thats defently wasnt mighty Atlantis but it can tell us that we cant refuted ancient scripts. Abscene of evidence isnt evidence of abscene. Helike ruins were visited by Ovid, Strabo, Pausanias and interestingly by Diodorus of Sicilus.

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Now I will upload some pictures to add them to my previous posts.

1.Knossos art

2.Lybians as Egyptians seen them (Plus ancients told us that Lybians have had lighter skin others Africans)

34eark1.jpg

21n0f1w.jpg

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Possible usage of so called Heron steam engine decribed by Vitruvius.

mlt4aq.jpg

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Amazons?

143c5z.jpg

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As I already wrote we know that Crete was multi ethnic society.

Now Im not racist but I just cant ignore different color of skin presented in these art. Was bull rider a slave while white are just cheers?

162ag0p.jpg

Were Amazons white priests while others just their sex slaves? Did they took them from Africa?

1zp5ohx.jpg

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Obviously Greeks were not racists othervise we would know who was black and who wasnt.

33ddon9.jpg

epm246.jpg

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Mabye Aristotele have had Afro roots as this Islam art suggests.

Arabic_aristotle.jpg

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Now look this Minoans frescos.

1. From Akrotiri.

2. From Knossos

2s0bvwp.jpg

29o0lg5.jpg

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Also maybe in picture where "African" jumps over bull other two white figures are females. And maybe in post 86 1st is female other is male. Maybe priestes were different etnhic then males. Or maybe they are same people just they didnt go on sun. :wacko:

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Just add some water in pot paddling isnt problem anymore.

[media=]

[/media]

Atleast they have had water around. And we know they have had fire. Viola.

Edited by the L

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As much as I have defended Atlantis as the lost city of Tartessos, I have to admit it could have been Thera and Crete. Thera expoled between 17th to 15th century bc , just at the time the kings Cecrops ect, of the war in the tale of atlantis of Athens were said have existed.

And this is reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and not their actions. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon.

King Cecrops 1 of Athens. 1582

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/cparada/GML/MythicalChronology.html

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Also the Egyptian priest had said

Now the city( athens) in those days was arranged on this wise. In the first place the Acropolis was not as now. For the fact is that a single night of excessive rain washed away the earth and laid bare the rock; at the same time there were earthquakes, and then occurred the extraordinary <a name="199">inundation, which was the third before the great destruction of Deucalion.

Flood in the age of Deucalion 1529

http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

Edited by docyabut2

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Don`t know why that post did`nt come through

Now the city( athens) in those days was arranged on this wise. In the first place the Acropolis was not as now. For the fact is that a single night of excessive rain washed away the earth and laid bare the rock; at the same time there were earthquakes, and then occurred the extraordinary <a name="199">inundation, which was the third before the great destruction of Deucalion.

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I feel like I say something wrong...or something smart that people dont know what to say...

Anyway, to add on Puzzler theory.

Panathenaea most famous festival in ancient Athens. One of reasons of celebration was gloryfing Athens in defeating Poseidon people (Atlantis).

Fact that celebration was celebrated before Plato prooves that he didnt invent story.

Edited by the L

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I feel like I say something wrong...or something smart that people dont know what to say...

Anyway, to add on Puzzler theory.

Panathenaea most famous festival in ancient Athens. One of reasons of celebration was gloryfing Athens in defeating Poseidon people (Atlantis).

Fact that celebration was celebrated before Plato prooves that he didnt invent story.

As the name implies, it was a celebration in honor of Athena.

Here and Here

There was a Poseidon angle. It was a boat race during the festival that honored Poseidon.

Nothing about "defeating Poseidon's people" that I can find.

Poseidon didn't have "people," AFAIK.

Harte

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As much as I have defended Atlantis as the lost city of Tartessos, I have to admit it could have been Thera and Crete. Thera expoled between 17th to 15th century bc , just at the time the kings Cecrops ect, of the war in the tale of atlantis of Athens were said have existed.

And this is reason why the names of the ancients have been preserved to us and not their actions. This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon.

King Cecrops 1 of Athens. 1582

http://www.forumanci...Chronology.html

Imo, this is when the story of Atlantis must be placed, regardless of the timeframe of 9000 years ago given. I traced a few of these names to the contest between Athena and Poseidon on the Acropolis and the preceding myth, the War between Athens and Eleusis. All things Eleusian have Poseidon's stamp all over them.

Edited by The Puzzler

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As the name implies, it was a celebration in honor of Athena.

Here and Here

There was a Poseidon angle. It was a boat race during the festival that honored Poseidon.

Nothing about "defeating Poseidon's people" that I can find.

Poseidon didn't have "people," AFAIK.

Harte

Poseidons 'people' would be worshippers of Poseidon over other Gods, such as Zeus and Athena.

Example from Wiki:

The name of the sea-god Nethuns in Etruscan was adopted in Latin for Neptune in Roman mythology; both were sea gods analogous to Poseidon. Linear B tablets show that Poseidon was venerated at Pylos and Thebes in pre-Olympian Bronze Age Greece as a chief deity, but he was integrated into the Olympian gods as the brother of Zeus and Hades

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon

Pylos and Thebes for starters, Poseidon had 'people'. They went down in pre-Olympian Bronze Age Greece.

There is a Homeric hymn to Poseidon, who was the protector of many Hellenic cities, although he lost the contest for Athens to Athena.

I'm not saying that i know about any celebration but you can't deny Poseidon had 'people'.

Edited by The Puzzler
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I feel like I say something wrong...or something smart that people dont know what to say...

Anyway, to add on Puzzler theory.

Panathenaea most famous festival in ancient Athens. One of reasons of celebration was gloryfing Athens in defeating Poseidon people (Atlantis).

Fact that celebration was celebrated before Plato prooves that he didnt invent story.

Thanks L and thanks also for all the interesting pictures and comparisons.

Sure seems to me Libyans were in Crete and even Thera into Greece, Athenians were Pelasgians, they might have even been Libyan/Therans and headed to the mainland when they evacuated Thera prior to the eruption or even after but somehow Athena has arrived into Greece from Crete after being bought in from Libya, as Plato thought.

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The problem is, people think Poseidon didn't exist until the Olympian Gods, but he was around way before, complete with many 'people'...so it's hard to know exactly what was going on with him prior to the written myths.

The earliest attested occurrence of the name, written in Linear B, is Po-se-da-o or Po-se-da-wo-ne, which correspond to Poseidaōn and Poseidawonos in Mycenean Greek; in Homeric Greek it appears as Ποσειδάων (Poseidaōn); in Aeolic as Ποτειδάων (Poteidaōn); and in Doric as Ποτειδάν (Poteidan), Ποτειδάων (Poteidaōn), and Ποτειδᾶς (Poteidas).[8] A common epithet of Poseidon is Γαιήοχος Gaiēochos, "Earth-shaker," an epithet which is also identified in Linear B tablets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poseidon

Poseidon has twin sons with Libya and from this comes Danaus line, Ascrisus and Danae, then Perseus.

Even a cautious reading of the subtext as a vehicle for legendary history suggests that a Pelasgian kingship in archaic Argos was overcome, not without violence, by seafarers out of Egypt (compare the Sea Peoples), whose leaders then intermarried with the local dynasty. The descendants of Danaus' "blameless" daughter Hypermnestra, through Danaë, led to Perseus, founder of Mycenae, thus suggesting that Argos had a claim to be the "mother city" of Mycenae

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaus

Cecrops might not have been Egyptian but a Libyan/West African - Serer priestly type, complete with accompanying snake spirits and laws, via Crete again.

Erichthonius the snake...

When he grew up, Erichthonius drove out Amphictyon, who had usurped the throne from Cranaus twelve years earlier, and became king of Athens. He married Praxithea, a naiad, and had a son, Pandion I. During this time, Athena frequently protected him. He founded the Panathenaic Festival in the honor of Athena, and set up a wooden statue of her on the Acropolis. According to the Parian Chronicle, he taught his people to yoke horses and use them to pull chariots, to smelt silver, and to till the earth with a plough. It was said that Erichthonius was lame of his feet and that he consequently invented the quadriga, or four-horse chariot to get around easier. He is said to have competed often as a chariot driver in games. Zeus was said to have been so impressed with his skill that he raised him to the heavens to become the constellation of the Charioteer (Auriga) after his death.

Ericthonius was succeeded by his son Pandion I. The snake is his symbol, and he is represented in the statue of Athena in the Parthenon as the snake hidden behind her shield.

http://en.wikipedia....onius_of_Athens

http://en.wikipedia....onius_of_Athens

But the most interesting one is Erechtheus, a doublet of Poseidon:

Erechtheus (/ɨˈrɛkθiəs/; Greek: Ἐρεχθεύς) in Greek mythology was the name of an archaic king of Athens, the re-founder of the polis and a double at Athens for Poseidon, as "Poseidon Erechtheus". A mythic Erechtheus and an Erechtheus given a human genealogy and set in a historicizing context—if they ever were really distinguished by Athenians—were harmonized as one in Euripides' lost tragedy Erechtheus, (423/22 BCE) . The name Erichthonius is carried by a son of Erechtheus, but Plutarch conflated the two names in the myth of the begetting of Erechtheus.[1]

Athenians thought of themselves as Erechtheidai, the "sons of Erechtheus".[2] In Homer's Iliad (2. 547–48) he is the son of "grain-giving Earth", reared by Athena.[3] The earth-born son was sired by Hephaestus, whose semen Athena wiped from her thigh with a fillet of wool cast to earth, by which Gaia was made pregnant.

In the contest for patronship of Athens between Poseidon and Athena, the salt spring on the Acropolis where Poseidon's trident struck was known as the sea of Erechtheus

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Erechtheus

Edited by The Puzzler
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This is Erechtheus II: (Eumolpus is a son of Poseidon)

The war with Eleusis

His reign was marked by the war between Athens and Eleusis, when the Eleusinians were commanded by Eumolpus, coming from Thrace. An oracle declared that Athens' survival depended on the death one of the three daughters of Erechtheus. Perhaps three unmarried daughters is meant. But in one version it is Chthonia who is sacrificed. In another both Protogeneia and Pandora, the two eldest, offer themselves up. In any case the remaining sisters (excepting Orithyia who had been kidnapped by Boreas), or at least some of them, are said to kill themselves. The story of the unfortunate daughters of Erechtheus is comparable to those of the daughters of Hyacinthus of Lacedaemon, and of the daughters of Leos.

In the following battle between the forces of Athens and Eleusis, Erechtheus won the battle and slew Eumolpus, but then himself fell, struck down by Poseidon's trident;[9] according to fragments of Euripides' tragedy Erechtheus.Poseidon avenged his son Eumolpus' death by driving him into the earth with blows of his trident,[10]

The ending lines of Euripides' tragedy were recovered in 1965 from a papyrus fragment.[11] They demonstrate for Walter Burkert[12] that "the founding of the Erechtheum and the institution of the priestess of Athena coincide." Athena resolves the action by instructing Erichtheus' widow Praxithea:

...and for your husband I command a shrine to be constructed in the middle of the city; he will be known for him who killed him, under the name of 'sacred Poseidon'; but among the citizens, when the sacrificial cattle are slaughtered, he shall also be called 'Erechtheus'. To you, however, since you have rebuilt the city's foundations,
I grant the duty of bringing in the preliminary fire-sacrifices for the city, and to be called my priestess.

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Just about everything in the of Atlantis tale points to the islands of Crete and Thera, but one red hering. When the egyptain priest said- And the name of his younger twin-brother, who had for his portion the extremity of the island near the pillars of Herakles up to the part of the country now called Gadeira after the name of that region, was Eumelos in Greek, but in the native tongue Gadeiros,--which fact may have given its title to the country.

Now the priest was speaking of now as being in the 6th century bc when the tale was told to Solon, so if the pillers were at Rhodes, where was this country then called Gaderia in the Agean sea?

Was it Melos? and where was the pillars?

http://0.tqn.com/d/a...pherd-c-004.jpg

It's a tricky one.

I don't think position can be compromised personally geographically, he meant the Atlantis Sea, as called by Herodotus, Gadeira, meaning Gades, the Pillars of Heracles meaning Gibraltar area.

However, I do think it's possible, using Plato's ideas of a cyclic occurance, that he has layered them on top of each other and that Crete may represent an Atlantis people too, part of the ones who had come into the Med. and subdued the populations, maybe being the rise of Cretan culture prior to the eruption.

Now, Plato says NOTHING about an eruption, which you think he would, if Thera was meant - the people however, left before the eruption, so archaeology tells us, which means, the inhabitants of Thera may have only known about a huge earthquake that generated a Flood, then they left, having no knowledge of the fate their island later suffered - then i guess, seeing fallout and such int he water and changes wouldhav eled to many stories being generated about a clash of Gods or something...

So, we have an island that seems reasonable to be Atlantis except for a couple of major points, no eruption on Atlantis and wrong place. But we have a philosopher who could see the Therans as Atlanteans and Thera as a 3rd Atlantis but knowing that the original of them is found outside the Pillars, their place of origin - a 1st Atlantis, each time rebuilding to a same point before being destructed. 3rd flood before the only one they remember - which one would that be?

He's investigating in the philosophies how Laws came about.

Ive pasted this a few times but it really says how Plato feels about the cycle thing and he references Troy in an uncannily similar way to Atlantis (fair plain, hill)

I'd love to copy paste the whole thing but I won't (the 2nd part has pasted badly but read it yourself from the link I gave)... Plato - The Laws

Cleinias. What do you mean?

Ath. I mean that he might watch them from the point of view

Cle. How so?

Ath. Why, do you think that you can reckon the time which has

Cle. Hardly.

Ath. But are sure that it must be vast and

Ath. And have not thousands and thousands of cities come into being during this period and as many perished? And has not each of them

Cle. To be sure.

Ath. Let us endeavour to ascertain the cause of these changes;

Cle. Very good. You shall endeavour to impart your thoughts to us, and we will make an effort to understand you.

Cle. What traditions?

Ath. The traditions about the many destructions of mankind which

Cle. Every one is disposed to believe them.

Cle. What are we to observe about it?

Ath. I mean to say that those who then escaped would only be

Cle. Clearly.

Ath. Such survivors would necessarily be unacquainted with the one another.

Cle. Very true.

Cle. Very good.

Ath. Would not all implements have then perished and every other

------------------------------

Yes, that would be the natural order of things. concur.

Cle. What is that? Dardania:

For not as yet had the holy Ilium been built on the plain to be he speaks the words of God and nature; for poets are a divine race and often in their strains, by the aid of the Muses and the Graces, they attain

Ath. Then now let us proceed with the rest of our tale, which will probably be found to illustrate in some degree our proposed design:-Shall

Ath. Ilium was built, when they descended from the mountain, in a large and fair plain, on a sort of low hill, watered by many rivers

Ath. And we must suppose this event to have taken place many ages after the deluge? under numerous streams flowing from the heights, trusting for their security to not very high hills, either.

Ath. And, as population increased, many other cities would begin to be inhabited. at that time men were ceasing to be afraid of the sea.

Cle. Clearly. http://classics.mit....laws.3.iii.html

Edited by The Puzzler
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As the name implies, it was a celebration in honor of Athena.

Here and Here

There was a Poseidon angle. It was a boat race during the festival that honored Poseidon.

Nothing about "defeating Poseidon's people" that I can find.

Poseidon didn't have "people," AFAIK.

Harte

I read it in several books that it was celebration over Poseidon. Last book that I read that was by sceptic Joel Levy "Lost histories".

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