Forced religion

[Orcseeker]

Kidnap them and treat them all? lol.. Just kidding.. so tell me how do you get them all into treatment? Who pays for all of this ?

Do you not think it will cause more trouble than it's worth ?

Like I was saying, extremist behaviour from both sides generally leads to an even worse off situation. Have them admitted just like any other mentally Ill person is these days.

Who pays for all this? Just a few more mentally Ill in the current system already implemented. Tax payers.

Well you asked me for a solution and here is what I think would be the best way to go about it. But if all these people are so worried about these extremists and how they will kill people/blow things up (honesty I think it is mostly fear driven media attention towards targeting religion) then a human life lost does not carry a price.

Just like what happened at the batman premier in America, if we even improved education for those who were mentally ill and he could have been admitted before doing the shooting. Another shooting was foiled recently because the mother alerted authorities and it was avoided.

The problem is, the white guy does it, mentally ill (as it should be labelled). The black guy does it (gang member/thug). An Arab guy does it (radical extremist).

I don't think we need to fork out billions to reduce this problem. But going by the governments spending management we may do so.

[Orcseeker]

Here in England we have problems sending certain people with radical extremist tendencies back to their own countries, can you imagine telling they have to go on a training course, and will have to be screened (which is not Pakistan related) ?

I don't think anyone in a healthy state of mind would have radical extremist tendencies. We should be looking at this as more of a mental illness. Provide education to those that "follow the herd" and encourage family members to admit those who show these signs.

[Mr Walker]

i used to go to church and i used to take my children with me. when the time came that they didn't want to go, that was the last time they did.

i would never force a child to believe something just because i did. i do think it's important to get them started on their own spiritual journey, but where that leads is entirely up to them.

Actually i bet you would try to "force" them to believe a lot of things you do, like being honest and not hurting others, for example, but you make an exception about religious beliefs.

For example, i would "force" a son of mine to respect and love women, and if he couldnt, then I would not have him in my home. (not talking about sexual love here just the love and respect due to women by men)

[Grandpa Greenman]

Walker you can't force your kids to do anything. You can teach, lead and set an example, but force, not really in they end they do what they want. All you really can hope for is you have laid out the ground work, so they can reason it out for themselves.

[freetoroam]

That depends on the individual. For example, the religion grew to an obsession and that grew from there due to their susceptibility to mental illness. Or they were already mentally ill and their radical take on their newfound religion is not exactly doing them any favours in their current mental state either.

Oh ok.

Well then....what Beckys-mom said.

[Mr Walker]

Walker you can't force your kids to do anything. You can teach, lead and set an example, but force, not really in they end they do what they want. All you really can hope for is you have laid out the ground work, so they can reason it out for themselves.

From my own life experience that is untrue and, just may be, one of the major flaws with modern parenting is that modern parents actually believe that. My parents had total control of me until I was in my mid teens (although I had a lot of physical independence and spent the days away from school doing pretty much anything I wanted in creative play.) and probably just as well. School teachers and others in authority also could, and did, force children to do exactly as they were told.

After that, despite a short period of teenage independence, i grew up pretty much like my parents, which was also a good thing.

[araxia]

religious indoctrination is child abuse.

[JGirl]

religious indoctrination is child abuse.

nonsense

[JGirl]

Actually i bet you would try to "force" them to believe a lot of things you do, like being honest and not hurting others, for example, but you make an exception about religious beliefs.

For example, i would "force" a son of mine to respect and love women, and if he couldnt, then I would not have him in my home. (not talking about sexual love here just the love and respect due to women by men)

i never forced my children to do anything. i gave them options choices and consequences. they were always free to choose.

as for forcing them to believe a lot of things i do, like being honest and not hurting others...those aren't belief systems. those are habits of decent human beings

don't twist what i said into something meaningless thank you

[Etu Malku]

Children should not be exposed to religious indoctrination, they should be allowed to be children and as their awareness and consciousness expands, they will seek out Beliefs and the such in a natural way without the baggage of guilt held over them.

Most religions want to grab the child at birth while there is a blank slate, with proper techniques these poor minds can be programmed to the point that it is impossible to break from the neuro linguistic programming and a great feeling of wrong, abandonment, guilt, and worse of all FEAR is instilled for the person's lifetime, rendering their freedom of Will null and void.

[dougeaton]

Well better for parents to teach their children some form of morality, if not they will pick it up from TV, movies and their friends who may come from homes were they are not taught anything from their parents. Good question.

doug

[freetoroam]

religious indoctrination is child abuse.

nonsense

===========================================

some can well be classed as child abuse, but in todays world, in some household sticking a child in front of a computer game so they do not get in your hair, is in some cases child neglect, how will these children turn out in comparison to those who have been fed religion?

Many children have a new found religion, its called the x-box.

[freetoroam]

We must remember that depending on what part of the world you live in makes a difference to how the teaching of a religion is taught to the child.

In countries like Saudia Arabia, I would imagine if the parent tried to bring their child up as a christian and made them wear a cross to school, it would not go down too well and could well be seen as a form of abuse.

Not being a follower of any cult, i find the whole lot strange.

[Mr Walker]

i never forced my children to do anything. i gave them options choices and consequences. they were always free to choose.

as for forcing them to believe a lot of things i do, like being honest and not hurting others...those aren't belief systems. those are habits of decent human beings

don't twist what i said into something meaningless thank you

Of course they are belief systems. What constitutes a "decent human being" is also a matter of belief based on cultural values.Every culture and every reasonable parent indoctrinates their children into culturally accepted values behaviours etc.,

If we don't then the society cant survive.

Honesty, as oposed to theft, is basically a middle class concept whcih arose as humans began to develop personal property. If a society doesnt have a concept of personal property then it probably doesnt have a concept of theft. Hence the problems between indigenous australians and european settlers in the early days of settlement.

Apache indians valued trickery and the abilty to steal above most other values, and a man who could not keep his horses safe was considered much less a man than the one who stole them. Religious beliefs are just another form of human belief, and most religious beliefs, in any society, overlap and complement other social beliefs and laws.

[Orcseeker]

nonsense

I do believe it is child abuse. It is forcing the religious beliefs of yourself onto an impressionable young person. It's funny, I've heard a story where Christian parents got upset with Satanist parents teaching their hold their religion. The believed it was wrong to do that and in turn, child abuse. Hypocrisy at its best.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Orcseeker

[JGirl]

I do believe it is child abuse. It is forcing the religious beliefs of yourself onto an impressionable young person. It's funny, I've heard a story where Christian parents got upset with Satanist parents teaching their hold their religion. The believed it was wrong to do that and in turn, child abuse. Hypocrisy at its best.

indoctrination isn't always force.

yes it's used in that manner but the actual definition is as follows:

Definition of INDOCTRINATE

1

: to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach

2

: to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle

— in·doc·tri·na·tion \(ˌ)in-ˌdäk-trə-ˈnā-shən\ noun

— in·doc·tri·na·tor \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnā-tər\ noun

Examples of INDOCTRINATE

1. The goal should be to teach politics, rather than to indoctrinate students in a narrow set of political beliefs.
   
2. <indoctrinated children in proper safety procedures>
   

[Etu Malku]

I do believe it is child abuse. It is forcing the religious beliefs of yourself onto an impressionable young person. It's funny, I've heard a story where Christian parents got upset with Satanist parents teaching their hold their religion. The believed it was wrong to do that and in turn, child abuse. Hypocrisy at its best.

The actual institutions associated with the Left Hand Path (Satanism, Setian, Luciferian, etc.) prohibit membership under 18 for this exact reason. The Freedom of the Will is of utmost importance and programming an adolescent mind is counter-productive to the Left Hand Path.

[Etu Malku]

indoctrination isn't always force.

yes it's used in that manner but the actual definition is as follows:

Definition of INDOCTRINATE

1

: to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach

2

: to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle

— in·doc·tri·na·tion \(ˌ)in-ˌdäk-trə-ˈnā-shən\ noun

— in·doc·tri·na·tor \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnā-tər\ noun

Examples of INDOCTRINATE

1. The goal should be to teach politics, rather than to indoctrinate students in a narrow set of political beliefs.
   
2. <indoctrinated children in proper safety procedures>
   

We're talking about Religious indoctrination where religious groups instruct new members in the principles of the religion.

Indoctrination implies forcibly or coercively causing people to act and think on the basis of a certain ideology.

Some religions have commitment ceremonies for children 13 years and younger, such as Bar Mitzvah, Confirmation, and Shichi-Go-San. In Buddhism, temple boys are encouraged to follow the faith while still very young

Critics of religion, such as Richard Dawkins, maintain that the children of religious parents are often unfairly indoctrinated. The process of subjecting children to complex initiation rituals before they are able to critically assess the event is seen by Dawkins and other critics of religion as cruel.

[JGirl]

We're talking about Religious indoctrination where religious groups instruct new members in the principles of the religion.

Indoctrination implies forcibly or coercively causing people to act and think on the basis of a certain ideology.

Some religions have commitment ceremonies for children 13 years and younger, such as Bar Mitzvah, Confirmation, and Shichi-Go-San. In Buddhism, temple boys are encouraged to follow the faith while still very young

Critics of religion, such as Richard Dawkins, maintain that the children of religious parents are often unfairly indoctrinated. The process of subjecting children to complex initiation rituals before they are able to critically assess the event is seen by Dawkins and other critics of religion as cruel.

the definition is what it is

note what i bolded and underlined in your post. you need to add an adjective to the word to sway it to your point.

Edited November 23, 2012 by JGirl

[Mr Walker]

I do believe it is child abuse. It is forcing the religious beliefs of yourself onto an impressionable young person. It's funny, I've heard a story where Christian parents got upset with Satanist parents teaching their hold their religion. The believed it was wrong to do that and in turn, child abuse. Hypocrisy at its best.

Satanists and christians and atheists all have a right, a duty, and a responsibilty, to teach their beliefs ot their children. Only where the beliefs create harm that is not acceptable to the laws of the society, are a parents rights to educate their child overruled by law. It is not child abuse to teach a child anything no matter how stupid it is.

Only a person opposed to a certain viewpoint will object to a child being taught that viewpoint/ eg I am a capitalist at heart, but govt schools, and thus myself have to teach a form of socialism in Australia. I object to this, but do it because it is my job to do so. A parent could teach their child either socialism or capitalism or anythng else and another might object..

[TheBanana]

i wouldnt say that it was abusive to teach your children about your beliefs, as long as your beliefs arent hurting anyone.

i wouldnt even say it was abusive to be the sort of parent who is so afraid of their kid being exposed to other viewpoints that they homeschool them, dont let them watch tv or listen to music and only let them talk to people who follow their religion. as long as theyre meeting their childrens needs for food, shelter and love and not beating them or molesting them, its not abusive (even if i think that isolating kids to that extent is wrong).

[freetoroam]

Satanists and christians and atheists all have a right, a duty, and a responsibilty, to teach their beliefs ot their children.

There is a difference between teaching your child the ways of life based on the natural world around you and how best to use its resources and live in it, to teaching your child something which has been written in a novel hundreds of years ago which has never been proven and can be disproved.

[Etu Malku]

There is a difference between teaching your child the ways of life based on the natural world around you and how best to use its resources and live in it, to teaching your child something which has been written in a novel hundreds of years ago which has never been proven and can be disproved.

Why teach the children that

the ways of life based on the natural world around you and how best to use its resources and live in it

since a child's undisturbed genius lies in her subjective universe most of the time? Here lies the problem with Mankind, we have this overpowering need to divorce our imagination/subjective universe for that of the physical/objective universe, to squelch any and all of our child-like mind into that of a conformist to what others have decided is "correct" living.

To this I say BS . . . keep the mind fertile, reject anything that is not your own creation, and stay out of this atrophic and soul destroying world created by blind religious fanatics and power mongers.

HAIL SANTA!!

Edited November 24, 2012 by Etu Malku

[Beckys_Mom]

It seems that a judge can force religion... Boy commits manslaughter and gets sentenced to 10 years to attend church http://www.huffingto..._n_2146619.html

Church = Punishment

Edited November 24, 2012 by Beckys_Mom

[Etu Malku]

It seems that a judge can force religion... Boy commits manslaughter and gets sentenced to 10 years to attend church http://www.huffingto..._n_2146619.html

Church = Punishment

WTF? Is this real?