The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

[zoser]

This statement proves that you have done no research whatsoever, nor did you bother to watch the video that Boony supplied. If you had, you would have seen many examples of people cutting and drilling with copper and would also have gained the knowledge that the copper does not actually do the cutting, it is the sand that is used.

Nah. Never in a million years did they cut holes with copper and sand. That theory seems to me to be the dream child of the desperate.

What about the initial cutting? What about the hauling? What about the finishing and precision fit?

How was the parallelism achieved with such huge blocks to impossible tolerances?

The answer is it's all utterly impossible without advanced technology. Our diamond cutters and drill bits would not even make a dent on a construction of that scale. At Giza, Puma Punku, or any of the other monolithic sites and walls around the world.

Thank God for Von Daniken, Dunn, Hancock, Bauval, Tsoukalos, Childress, and all the modern thinking men that have successfully challenged the dinosaur half brains of the past few hundred years and who have helped make the truth available to thinking world.

An interesting video; let a highly skilled engineer take you through the relics.

Cheers.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-nOBfffuNY

Edited November 30, 2012 by zoser

[bmk1245]

[...]

Thank God for Von Daniken, Dunn, Hancock, Bauval, Tsoukalos, Childress, and all the modern thinking men that have successfully challenged the dinosaur half brains of the past few hundred years and who have helped make the truth available to thinking world.

[...]

Oh, dear... Another koala (2541^st) fell from the tree...

[booNyzarC]

Nah. Never in a million years did they cut holes with copper and sand. That theory seems to me to be the dream child of the desperate.

What about the initial cutting? What about the hauling? What about the finishing and precision fit?

How was the parallelism achieved with such huge blocks to impossible tolerances?

The answer is it's all utterly impossible without advanced technology. Our diamond cutters and drill bits would not even make a dent on a construction of that scale. At Giza, Puma Punku, or any of the other monolithic sites and walls around the world.

Thank God for Von Daniken, Dunn, Hancock, Bauval, Tsoukalos, Childress, and all the modern thinking men that have successfully challenged the dinosaur half brains of the past few hundred years and who have helped make the truth available to thinking world.

An interesting video; let a highly skilled engineer take you through the relics.

Cheers.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-nOBfffuNY

This is a prime example of the flawed thinking of the woo woo crowd. Without even looking into the details and information provided, it is dismissed with a simple wave of the hand and a biased "Nah, I don't believe it."

Willful ignorance at its best worst.

Zoser, these methods have been DEMONSTRATED, and therefore PROVEN to be within the capacity of the human beings who built these structures. Your denial of these things does nothing to actually impact them, but you are shortchanging yourself in the process.

[zoser]

Zoser, these methods have been DEMONSTRATED, and therefore PROVEN to be within the capacity of the human beings who built these structures. Your denial of these things does nothing to actually impact them, but you are shortchanging yourself in the process.

Chris Dunn a specialist machine engineer who in the above video clip consults other similar experts confirms that it's totally impossible. I emphatically agree.

In the video clip there is even evidence of ancient saw marks and machine tool marks to prove that some sophisticated cutting methods were employed. Powered by unknown means, made of unknown materials.

It's all there, proved and established as fact. Watch it and see for yourself.

[zoser]

The bow, sand and copper hypothesis fails:

At 0:38 in the clip Dunn refers to a core drilled red granite sample where the spiral cutting marks are in one direction only. This was also found to be the case in the video clip I posted earlier concerning the Inca relics.

Once again banal theories fail.

Watch the clips if you don't believe me.

Edited November 30, 2012 by zoser

[Babe Ruth]

In the top object, the hole could have been drilled before the carving was done.

So only those who aren't/weren't indigenous Indians could make carvings like that? That's rather condescending. I don't see you saying that all stone work done before modern technology, that had drilled holes and right angles couldn't have been done by those indigenous peoples, now why is that? As far as the altitude, they were accustomed to it.

If you want a rational explanation, start by eliminating the irrational premise that lack of knowledge of the exact methods used to work stone long ago is an indicator it must have been aliens.

The AA hypothesis will remain that, just a hypothesis, because as more information and evidence comes to light, like that concerning the Great Pyramid, more and more of the ancient stone work will be shown to have a human not ET hand in it.

Yes, it could have been this, or might have been that, or possibly was something else, you say.

And the AA folks say it might have been alien intervention.

So far, on both sides, it is a 'shoulda coulda woulda' thing.

It seems to me that foreign intervention is the most likely explanation, all things considered.

Stonework with such precision could not have been done by primitive men, sorry.

[Oniomancer]

That's an understatement. Copper is a known soft metal I don't believe that the method indicated would be capable of drilling perfect holes in red granite. It would use too much copper and go off center and be elongated. The holes are too perfect.

"If a hollow vase or other object is to be made, one large tubular drill will need to be made...this is made by either making a diamond hole-saw of a piece of mild steel or brass tubing." -Gemcraft , Quick and Leiper, 1959.

"Any small diameter tubing may be cut up and put to work. empty ball point pen refills for example...surplus hard stores often carry small diameter brass and aluminum tubes"

"Making diamond tools entails mostly the impregnation of small copper and brass rods and disks with.. diamond powder"

-Gemstone carving, Walker, 1977.

Here's a lovely video of copper wheel glass engraving from the "look ma, no diamond tools" thread:

To add, there's question over whether the ancient drills used were copper or bronze. What's known though is that many of the holes have been found to contain traces of verdigris from some copper-based metal.

[zoser]

Here's a lovely video of copper wheel glass engraving from the "look ma, no diamond tools" thread:

To add, there's question over whether the ancient drills used were copper or bronze. What's known though is that many of the holes have been found to contain traces of verdigris from some copper-based metal.

I see you have craftily ignored post 430. Never mind. PS What's powering the tool in your video?????????????

Further; you see no difference between artistic engraving and boring 2 inch diameter holes in grantite and basalt?

Do you realise that some of these holes are feet in depth not inches?

You seriously need to do some research.

Edited November 30, 2012 by zoser

[Oniomancer]

I see you have craftily ignored post 430. Never mind.

There's some question of that. Regardless, IIRC, there are some experiments which have produced similar marks. Nor is it necessary for the marks to have been produced during the drilling process.

PS What's powering the tool in your video?????????????

Wow. Questionmark sure called that. You just got through saying the copper wouldn't work at all. Deflectors on full Mr. Chekov! A bow drill will do about 75 RPM too. That's more than sufficient.

Further; you see no difference between artistic engraving and boring 2 inch diameter holes in grantite and basalt?

Not particularly. One cut in a hard material is much like another methodology-wise. And the basic technology here is essentially the same for both.

Do you realise that some of these holes are feet in depth not inches?

You do realize a 6 inch long drill can still cut a two foot deep hole if it's attached to long enough shaft, right? This is a scaling problem, nothing more.

[synchronomy]

Thank God for Von Daniken, Dunn, Hancock, Bauval, Tsoukalos, Childress, and all the modern thinking men that have successfully challenged the dinosaur half brains of the past few hundred years and who have helped make the truth available to thinking world.

I honestly sat here for five minutes thinking and rereading that sentence several times in order to comprehend the enormity of the statement.

Other than that I decline the opportunity to comment on the meaning of it.

You have certainly clarified your viewpoint.

[S2F]

We use sandpaper to shape materials even today (up to and including metal). The primary ingredient of sandpaper...sand. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

[PHFATY]

This theory seems plausible when you factor in all the unexplained mysteries surrounding ancient ruins scattered across the globe. Perhaps the reason why these mysteries have remained unexplained to modern man for so long is because of our robot-like natural tendencies to always revert to our preconceived notions or personal prejudices to process the past. Which can potentially taint the truth without our ever noticing that we are filling in the unknown or unexplained with convenient explanations based on what we think is so.

So rather than letting the past write its own history, modern man is sometimes often guilty of overwriting the truth with convenient excuses and explanations that repackages the past in ways that allows it to fit in well with the illusion that we think is our reality.

I truly believe that we are not alone in this Universe. Not based on empirical evidence relating to ancient aliens or UFOs but rather based on mathematical statistics on how many potentially life supporting expoplanets exist in the Universe. And without even thinking about it, we can say that it most likely numbers in the trillions or more.

[zoser]

You do realize a 6 inch long drill can still cut a two foot deep hole if it's attached to long enough shaft, right? This is a scaling problem, nothing more.

Try drilling granite with an ordinary 0.25 inch steel drill. See how long it lasts. Then imagine that's your copper and sand combination trying to drill a 2-3 inch diameter hole 2 feet deep.

Better still listen to the experts in the above video's; this is precisely what archaeology has lacked; specialist knowledge.

[S2F]

Try drilling granite with an ordinary 0.25 inch steel drill. See how long it lasts. Then imagine that's your copper and sand combination trying to drill a 2-3 inch diameter hole 2 feet deep.

Better still listen to the experts in the above video's; this is precisely what archaeology has lacked; specialist knowledge.

That's why they probably used tubes to cut larger holes. You only need to cut around the perimeter and then use wedges to break apart the core. That decreases the work needed significantly. What was that you were saying about specialist knowledge?

[S2F]

Zoser, do you think it would be possible to use the copper/sand drilling method if it were attached to a modern hand held power drill?

Edited December 1, 2012 by Slave2Fate

[Babe Ruth]

Perhaps you can try to believe the ones that are backed by logic, common sense and evidence. Make critical thinking your friend and you can never go wrong.

Agree 100%. I offer the same unsolicited advice to any and all.

I'm willing to accept that the old man who created the Coral Castle in Homestead had somehow discovered and mastered some method for defeating gravity. Perhaps it was the same method involved in building the pyramids and other similar sites all 'round the planet.

But common sense suggests humans were given this knowledge by mentors. I doubt hunter-gatherers would have stumbled upon the method as they were out chasing animals.

Considering that diamond-tipped bits would be necessary to cut stones with such precision, common sense tells me that hunter-gatherers were not in possession of such diamond tools. Nor do excavations reveal any such tools.

Common Sense! Yessir, I'm all for it.

[Gaden]

zoser, on 30 November 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Thank God for Von Daniken, Dunn, Hancock, Bauval, Tsoukalos, Childress, and all the modern thinking men that have successfully challenged the dinosaur half brains of the past few hundred years and who have helped make the truth available to thinking world.

I honestly sat here for five minutes thinking and rereading that sentence several times in order to comprehend the enormity of the statement.

Other than that I decline the opportunity to comment on the meaning of it.

You have certainly clarified your viewpoint.

Yeah, that one scared me, too. That statement should make it clear to anyone how useless it is to argue any longer.

[Gaden]

This theory seems implausible when you factor in all the unexplained mysteries surrounding ancient ruins scattered across the globe. Perhaps the reason why these mysteries have remained unexplained to modern man for so long is because of our robot-like natural tendencies to always revert to our preconceived notions or personal prejudices to process the past. Which can potentially taint the truth without our ever noticing that we are filling in the unknown or unexplained with convenient explanations based on what we think is so.

So rather than letting the past write its own history, modern man is sometimes often guilty of overwriting the truth with convenient excuses and explanations that repackages the past in ways that allows it to fit in well with the illusion that we think is our reality.

I truly believe that we are not alone in this Universe. Not based on empirical evidence relating to ancient aliens or UFOs but rather based on mathematical statistics on how many potentially life supporting expoplanets exist in the Universe. And without even thinking about it, we can say that it most likely numbers in the trillions or more.

There, that's better. Only added two letters, but it makes so much more sense.

[zoser]

Zoser, do you think it would be possible to use the copper/sand drilling method if it were attached to a modern hand held power drill?

Only an idiot would attempt it. Either the copper is going to rapidly erode on the granite or it will rapidly erode on the sand. It's a practical and physical non-starter.

[bmk1245]

Only an idiot would attempt it. Either the copper is going to rapidly erode on the granite or it will rapidly erode on the sand. It's a practical and physical non-starter.

In case you didn't knew, copper and copper alloys ARE used as bond matrix in sintered diamond blades.

[zoser]

In case you didn't knew, copper and copper alloys ARE used as bond matrix in sintered diamond blades.

Show me someone cutting 2 inch dia holes 2 feet deep in a solid granite granite block with a bow and I'll be convinced. As I said in post 430 the smoking gun is that the spiral cutting marks on the samples that Chris Dunn analysed (and shown in the Inca Relic video) are only in one direction.

[Babe Ruth]

Yeah, even IF hunter gathers could make such drills, what is going to stabilize those drills/tool as they work on stone? That is machine work. If they could cut the stone, then they have to move the tool in a perfectly straight line? How can that be?

[S2F]

Yeah, even IF hunter gathers could make such drills, what is going to stabilize those drills/tool as they work on stone? That is machine work. If they could cut the stone, then they have to move the tool in a perfectly straight line? How can that be?

Guide blocks.

[S2F]

Agree 100%. I offer the same unsolicited advice to any and all.

I'm willing to accept that the old man who created the Coral Castle in Homestead had somehow discovered and mastered some method for defeating gravity. Perhaps it was the same method involved in building the pyramids and other similar sites all 'round the planet.

But common sense suggests humans were given this knowledge by mentors. I doubt hunter-gatherers would have stumbled upon the method as they were out chasing animals.

Considering that diamond-tipped bits would be necessary to cut stones with such precision, common sense tells me that hunter-gatherers were not in possession of such diamond tools. Nor do excavations reveal any such tools.

Common Sense! Yessir, I'm all for it.

You're making the same mistake as all of the other AA proponents. You are assuming that primitive equals stupid. Hardly the case as the Natives at Pumu Punku had the same cognitive abilities as you or I. We only have the advantage of having access to more knowledge. They could solve problems as well (or better) than their modern day counterparts...us.

[Oniomancer]

Try drilling granite with an ordinary 0.25 inch steel drill. See how long it lasts. Then imagine that's your copper and sand combination trying to drill a 2-3 inch diameter hole 2 feet deep.

You must've missed where I quoted the part about steel, brass and copper used in conjunction with abrasive. Non-sintered core drills are made from ordinary steel. The type of abrasive makes little difference either. Quartz (IE: sand) is mohs 8. It'll cut anything mohs 8 or below, including itself.

Better still listen to the experts in the above video's; this is precisely what archaeology has lacked; specialist knowledge.

I've only made it half way through the second one as yet and so far all I'm hearing is dunn droning on about stuff totally outside his experience along with that other machinist and trading straw man assumptions with childress, who has no experience at all and can't even pronounce basalt right.

Edit: I did like that bit at about 14:20 though:

"Fairly close. obviously there are going to be some imperfections"

You don't say? So much for laser-like precision.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Oniomancer