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Alphamale06

The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

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Sorry zoser. Work on Puma Punku started around 1500 B.P.(Circa 400 AD) Basically after the Bronze Age and well into the Iron Age in most areas.

Sorry for what? It doesn't say anything about who built it or how, or what relics were found nearby to account for the incredible construction.

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Anyway enough with the swipes...this thread almost has my interest again with the fabled red juice..

I think there are much more interesting avenues to explore, but anyway good luck with that.

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Sorry for what? It doesn't say anything about who built it or how, or what relics were found nearby to account for the incredible construction.

I don't get it, zoser. I really don't. You simply ignore everything that doesn't fit within your crazy "framework". You keep saying that you have "evidence" and you post pictures of things that can all be explained and insist that they can't.

Personally, I think it would be awesome if aliens really did build these things. But there's no point and more importantly, there is no evidence.

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I don't get it, zoser. I really don't. You simply ignore everything that doesn't fit within your crazy "framework". You keep saying that you have "evidence" and you post pictures of things that can all be explained and insist that they can't.

Personally, I think it would be awesome if aliens really did build these things. But there's no point and more importantly, there is no evidence.

Forget the framework; forget the textbooks, forget the dates and look at the evidence and what the specialists say about it.

That's the place to start. Impossible to convince anyone that Puma Punku was built by Indians. They just didn't do that kind of thing. No technology, no precision, no writing, no blueprints, no tools, nothing.

It's far more ancient than people think anyway.

I read on website that the only dating came from some foodstuffs or bio remains under one of the stones. Well the stones have been shifted probably many times. From looking at the remains, it's obvious that at least one catastrophe hit the site; then there were the Spanish that turned it upside down. Before that the Aymara probably used it as a camp site. There are a myriad of possibilities.

It all points to the need to be very cautious about dating and who we credit as being the builders.

Edited by zoser

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On some website it was conjectured

that the metal wasn't poured in molten form but rather the clamps were ready prepared and pressed into the clay like block. It's purpose was not to provide final mechanical rigidity but to hold the block in place while is hardened.

First off, pls dont post a piccy and say 'on some website'... which website and a link pls?

And your second point about holding a rock into place while it hardened is crazy... if the clamp was pre-formed it'd be harder than any clay.. if the rock was especially heavy, as such rocks are.. it would then easily 'pull away' from any clamp, if the clamp had a such great load on it.. like pulling a cheesewire thru clay

Come on zoser this is elementary stuff now

Besides, how can anyone determine the depth of the hole or shape, in your pic?

And has no-one noticed something totally baffling about all these pics of the structures? Many of them... have these strange red arrows on them! Hows that then? What was there purpose?

Question for zoser. Which is heaviest? Wet clay, or dry rock? Size for size? Not the old chestnut of "a kilo of lead or kilo of feather" pls

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Forget the framework; forget the textbooks, forget the dates and look at the evidence and what the specialists say about it.

Which specialists?

And how many specialists have you read about?

More than 2-3?

Which of those

is qualified?

In what?

Name some names zoser, provide some links...and... 'forget the textbooks' is usually how conspiracy theorists begin...

Edited by seeder

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Take a look at the above picture. It's much more than polishing. It's a deep melting causing almost a fusion effect.

That would need copious quantities of liquid, which I strongly believe refutes this theory. Any theory has to fit all the evidence Abe and so far the only one that I see that applies to every case is heat.

Bullcrap. that temp would have shattered the rock before it melted.

Do you know what Andesite is? Have you considered what the quartz/feldspar abundances in andesite might offer toward the properties you are describing?

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Forget the framework; forget the textbooks, forget the dates and look at the evidence and what the specialists say about it.

That's the place to start. Impossible to convince anyone that Puma Punku was built by Indians. They just didn't do that kind of thing. No technology, no precision, no writing, no blueprints, no tools, nothing.

It's far more ancient than people think anyway.

I read on website that the only dating came from some foodstuffs or bio remains under one of the stones. Well the stones have been shifted probably many times. From looking at the remains, it's obvious that at least one catastrophe hit the site; then there were the Spanish that turned it upside down. Before that the Aymara probably used it as a camp site. There are a myriad of possibilities.

It all points to the need to be very cautious about dating and who we credit as being the builders.

Lots of BS in this one zoser.

You say listen to the specialists, of which 99.9% of them disagree with you. We are listening to the specialists. You are listening to those out to make a buck.

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People , there may be an Amazonian plant/herb out there that contains chemicals that are able to dissolve granite,

Find it (lol)

,.

Sat through a load of websites, found very little.

Checked each plant here: Peruvian native plants

Nothing that fully matches. The only plants that closely fit are the Croton (Not spongy), Coleus (you already mentioned) and the Caladium. I doubt any of these produce enough acid to get the result you desire though. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

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Sat through a load of websites, found very little.

Checked each plant here: Peruvian native plants

Nothing that fully matches. The only plants that closely fit are the Croton (Not spongy), Coleus (you already mentioned) and the Caladium. I doubt any of these produce enough acid to get the result you desire though. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Its appreciated, some dont or cant be bothered to look things up... this a problem especially for zoser, and how he is criticized so often

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Lots of BS in this one zoser.

You say listen to the specialists, of which 99.9% of them disagree with you. We are listening to the specialists. You are listening to those out to make a buck.

All this clown zoser has is fantasy, opinion and BS..... lots and lots of it.

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Im just so dreading when zoser watches what the Ancient Aliens series did to the antikythera mechanism

Forget stones! here we had the worlds first 'ancient computer' as they put it. Now at least he could be forgiven for getting over excited about ancient machined cogs and gears, a true worlds first for mechanical things...than he does about stones :yes:

Edited by seeder
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Missed one plant that might be of interest:

Iresine sp

Reds/purples, salt tolerant, acidic soil loving.

To quote wikipedia (I know, I know...)

The generic name is derived from the Greek word εριος (erios), meaning "wooly", referring to the trichome-covered flowers.[2] Bloodleaf[3] is a common name for those species that have colored foliage, and these are often cultivated as ornamental plants. Some species are additives to versions of the hallucinogenic drink Ayahuasca.

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Sat through a load of websites, found very little.

Checked each plant here: Peruvian native plants

Nothing that fully matches. The only plants that closely fit are the Croton (Not spongy), Coleus (you already mentioned) and the Caladium. I doubt any of these produce enough acid to get the result you desire though. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

There appear to be species of philodendron that are native to Peru, and some if not all philodendron contain fair amounts of calcium oxalate, though not pure oxalic acid.

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There's a wide variety of prescription drugs that are derived from plants native to South America.

Maybe the reason we can't figure out the ancients logic for building these megaliths is because it was flawed logic to begin with.

Maybe these Inca's and their predecessors were a bunch of drug addicts. Maybe it was part of their culture and they spent every day of their lives from morning to night snorting buckets of cocaine?

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In regards to Puma Punku, we are at the same spot still. I have questions. Questions that need answering. People here still claim it was made with primitive tools by us regular humans and it was made very well. It's also torn apart or blown up. That's strange. I wonder why? Local tribes will claim that something resembling "Gods" built it and destroyed it a long time before site Tiwanaku was made nearby. They're reports that have trumpets or noise being made while the site was under construction. I can't figure anything that makes sense unless a record player was being used in the back ground like construction workers use radios today. I don't believe the site was created by manifestation as locals watched. Noway.

When I looked at Tiwanaku, I saw one piece of block resembling Puma Punku so far. I say this because of the two brick like holes in the stone.

300px-Zonnepoort_tiwanaku.jpg

The general opinion on Tiwanaku is that it wasn't as impressive masonry wise compared to Puma Punku. At Tiwanaku you would see priests dancing and praying along with the locals. I would assume Puma Punku was the same thing, but something destroyed it and I believe that's why a bigger site called Tiwanaku was constructed or had a ton added on as fast as perfection would allow it.(Tiwanaku existed but it was on a much smaller scale at the time I'm assuming. I don't know if I should delete that or not) It was done in a hurry because they thought the Gods were going to destroy them as well like Puma Punka. That's a theory using a asteroid, smaller rock or whatever brought down by our creators. I'm unsure what to think about that because I need evidence.

This picture here is a block from Puma Punku resembling the block from Tiwanaku in the picture above. In my opinion, these people are using the same techniques. There's no drills involved at Tiwanaku we think. I lose my interest in Aliens now.

800px-Puma_Punku7.jpg

If I want them to use basic tools to complete these sites I can. Somebody else helped us humans when building these sites and I know for fact. The question is how. I must use a reason that the has builders and main architects having information explained in there brains to complete the sites. During the building of the sites "duck tape" has to be played on the masonry workers to make sure it's done to a tee. Say the masonry worker is chipping away at stone and makes woops. Playing tape will fix it instantly and help the masonry workers along the way to preform perfection or close to it. Time, Time, Time and Time! I know practice makes perfect and I would bet they worked their asses off trying to get it perfect before they started. Life didn't have a lot to it in Ancient Times. Farming(food), Masonry, beer(all types of plant drugs), family and sex was it. Yeah there are your buddies you see but what are you going to do? Kick a rock around together or build monuments for money and your Gods that you absolutely believed in without a shadow of a doubt and I can see they would or why we would. I will use this idea around the entire world from the very beginning and our future. This helps explain every site that was built around the World at anytime if we need help explaining it.

I need us seeing something that's God or God like(This is where Bigfoot for me comes in, but I can't throw out the idea of intelligent life from somewhere else visiting. I'm in that group) or else religion would of never existed and all these amazing eye popping monuments we see that are left over would never of existed. A lot of the left over sites and buildings we have now relate to religion in some way. That's interesting. I'm trying to take things further with using the word duck tape to explain but I'm not 100% there yet I think. God less you all.

Edited by kampz

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I do

Red Juntcha, its in their own myths (peruvians or whatever) that a bird carried it. I was waiting till someone here found news of it, but sadly, no-one does

Have a FIELD DAY reading stories about it. zoser really needs to do a google on this

but sadly he'll only read the stories that also insist the bird really means flying people...erm, you know -aliens!!

So we have a name. I admit, I never heard of it before.

"Flying people"... that must be some shaman who 'shapeshifted' into a bird. That's what they believe is possible.

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This is all that I have found so far:

I have to say, however, that while this certainly is an appealing explanation, this story has all the trappings of an urban legend. I see the same text quotes everywhere and no names that can be identified beyond the reports.

Seeder called it Red Juntcha

From your post:

In an interview in 1983, Jorge A. Lira, a Catholic priest who was an expert in Andean folklore, said that he had rediscovered the ancient method of softening stone. According to a pre-Columbian legend the gods had given the Indians two gifts to enable them to build colossal architectural works such as Sacsayhuaman and Machu Picchu. The gifts were two plants with amazing properties. One of them was the coca plant, whose leaves enabled the workers to sustain the tremendous effort required. The other was a plant which, when mixed with other ingredients, turned hard stone into a malleable paste. Padre Lira said he had spent 14 years studying the legend and finally succeeded in identifying the plant in question, which he called ‘jotcha’. He carried out several experiments and, although he managed to soften solid rock, he could not reharden it, and therefore considered his experiments a failure.

4 Aukanaw, an Argentine anthropologist of Mapuche origin, who died in 1994, related a tradition about a species of woodpecker known locally by such names as pitiwe, pite, and pitio; its scientific name is probably Colaptes pitius (Chilean flicker), which is found in Chile and Argentina, or Colaptes rupicola (Andean flicker), which is found in southern Ecuador, Peru, western Bolivia, and northern Argentina and Chile. If someone blocks the entrance to its nest with a piece of rock or iron it will fetch a rare plant, known as pito or pitu, and rub it against the obstacle, causing it to become weaker or dissolve. In Peru, above 4500 m, there is said to be a plant called kechuca which turns stone to jelly, and which the jakkacllopito bird uses to make its nest. A plant with similar properties that grows at even higher altitudes is known, among other things, as punco-punco; this may be Ephedra andina, which the Mapuche consider a medicinal plant.5

Your quote says jotcha, pito, pitu, kechuca, punco-punco (Ephedra andina).

Well, we're certainly getting somewhere.

"Urban legend" : then Fawcett must have started it. No, actually Hiram Bingham, already in 1911.

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Seeder called it Red Juntcha

From your post:

Your quote says jotcha, pito, pitu, kechuca, punco-punco (Ephedra andina).

Well, we're certainly getting somewhere.

"Urban legend" : then Fawcett must have started it. No, actually Hiram Bingham, already in 1911.

I dunno, man. I searched under all those names and all that comes back is this same article.

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In regards to Puma Punku, we are at the same spot still. I have questions. Questions that need answering. People here still claim it was made with primitive tools by us regular humans and it was made very well. It's also torn apart or blown up. That's strange. I wonder why? Local tribes will claim that something resembling "Gods" built it and destroyed it a long time before site Tiwanaku was made nearby. They're reports that have trumpets or noise being made while the site was under construction. I can't figure anything that makes sense unless a record player was being used in the back ground like construction workers use radios today. I don't believe the site was created by manifestation as locals watched. Noway.

When I looked at Tiwanaku, I saw one piece of block resembling Puma Punku so far. I say this because of the two brick like holes in the stone.

300px-Zonnepoort_tiwanaku.jpg

The general opinion on Tiwanaku is that it wasn't as impressive masonry wise compared to Puma Punku. At Tiwanaku you would see priests dancing and praying along with the locals. I would assume Puma Punku was the same thing, but something destroyed it and I believe that's why a bigger site called Tiwanaku was constructed or had a ton added on as fast as perfection would allow it.(Tiwanaku existed but it was on a much smaller scale at the time I'm assuming. I don't know if I should delete that or not) It was done in a hurry because they thought the Gods were going to destroy them as well like Puma Punka. That's a theory using a asteroid, smaller rock or whatever brought down by our creators. I'm unsure what to think about that because I need evidence.

This picture here is a block from Puma Punku resembling the block from Tiwanaku in the picture above. In my opinion, these people are using the same techniques. There's no drills involved at Tiwanaku we think. I lose my interest in Aliens now.

800px-Puma_Punku7.jpg

If I want them to use basic tools to complete these sites I can. Somebody else helped us humans when building these sites and I know for fact. The question is how. I must use a reason that the has builders and main architects having information explained in there brains to complete the sites. During the building of the sites "duck tape" has to be played on the masonry workers to make sure it's done to a tee. Say the masonry worker is chipping away at stone and makes woops. Playing tape will fix it instantly and help the masonry workers along the way to preform perfection or close to it. Time, Time, Time and Time! I know practice makes perfect and I would bet they worked their asses off trying to get it perfect before they started. Life didn't have a lot to it in Ancient Times. Farming(food), Masonry, beer(all types of plant drugs), family and sex was it. Yeah there are your buddies you see but what are you going to do? Kick a rock around together or build monuments for money and your Gods that you absolutely believed in without a shadow of a doubt and I can see they would or why we would. I will use this idea around the entire world from the very beginning and our future. This helps explain every site that was built around the World at anytime if we need help explaining it.

I need us seeing something that's God or God like(This is where Bigfoot for me comes in, but I can't throw out the idea of intelligent life from somewhere else visiting(I'm in that group) or else religion would of never existed and all these amazing eye popping monuments we see that are left over would never of existed. A lot of the left over sites and buildings we have now relate to religion in some way. That's interesting. I'm trying to take things further with using the word duck tape to explain but I'm not 100% there yet I think. God less you all.

I don't know if something resembling an Alien, Advanced Human or manifestation of their God was at the site of Puma Punku at one time which could of been at the very beginning of construction. Locals will say Gods are involved with Puma Punka that's not relevant to praying.

Edited by kampz

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Sat through a load of websites, found very little.

Checked each plant here: Peruvian native plants

Nothing that fully matches. The only plants that closely fit are the Croton (Not spongy), Coleus (you already mentioned) and the Caladium. I doubt any of these produce enough acid to get the result you desire though. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

At least we have a list. That's something already.

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Missed one plant that might be of interest:

Iresine sp

Reds/purples, salt tolerant, acidic soil loving.

To quote wikipedia (I know, I know...)

And damn it, THIS one I was thinking of, but the only one I knew the name of was the Coleus.

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There appear to be species of philodendron that are native to Peru, and some if not all philodendron contain fair amounts of calcium oxalate, though not pure oxalic acid.

Yes, I have had Philidendrons, and one type is purple at the bottomside of its leaves. But green at the topside.

And these types of Philodendrons are winders, while the plants from the stories I posted were standing alone (I think).

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So we have a name. I admit, I never heard of it before.

"Flying people"... that must be some shaman who 'shapeshifted' into a bird. That's what they believe is possible.

Well that's believable to me because of websites, books and television that obtain Paranormal, Cryptic animals and Religion. Also it's believable because of the life we live.

Edited by kampz

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There's a wide variety of prescription drugs that are derived from plants native to South America.

Maybe the reason we can't figure out the ancients logic for building these megaliths is because it was flawed logic to begin with.

Maybe these Inca's and their predecessors were a bunch of drug addicts. Maybe it was part of their culture and they spent every day of their lives from morning to night snorting buckets of cocaine?

A couple things: although they most certainly knew how to concentrate/extract the cocaine from coke leaves, most often they only chewed on massive amounts of coca leaves.

They still do it, every day, many hours of the day. If you go to a Peruvian or Bolivian market place, you will see huge plastic bags with coca leaves.

I remember I was on the highest skiing course of Bolivia (and the world). We were just walking and had the feeling we would die on the spot, that much exhausted we were. So we sat down to have a rest. Then a native Bolivian showed up, and asked us what the trouble was. Well, we could hardly speak, he laughed and gave us each some leaves to chew on. Ok, we chewed, and within 10 minutes we continued walking, talking, making jokes, laughing and singing, lol.

But what I noticed is that no one there (the natives who still live according to their traditional ways) is an addict. They just use it when they need to do hard work, or to silence their hunger.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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