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Alphamale06

The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

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I have noticed you are quick with the word "evidence', Zoser.

It's a strange mark indeed, but is it evidence for burning?

Feel free to forward constructive ideas by all means. So far all I see is evidence continuing to mount; slowly slowly catch the monkey is how I described it earlier.

My research time is limited now I'm back to work. Every time I look at new close up images of these stones new features like this seem to be revealed and nothing is suggesting anything else but intense heat.

Maybe I'll find some new features tonight. It's a great process and it's not relying on anyone's adding up; it does rely though on spotting detail.

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Now who is knit picking zoser?

BTW: Webster dictionary says:

nit–pick·ing: noun \nit-pi-kiŋ\

Definition of NIT-PICKING

minute and usually unjustified criticism

IRONY!!!

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The Incas and their predecessors discovered that structures made of irregular, polygonal blocks are more earthquake-proof.

The top of these walls and buildings were finished with layers of regular cut stones, like our way of building.

Then there is the 'quick and easy' way of building for common housing, what Zoser and others consider to be the only true Inca way of building.

No doubt they are much more earthquake proof. Is talking on behalf of the ancients really wise? Can you back this statement up? How many earthquakes did they actually experience? How do we know?

Two things Abe I think we need to be careful about. Assumption and translating everything into our terms. Their terms were very different as demonstrated by their totally baffling architecture. Just like you accuse me of using the word 'evidence'.

The Inca most probably did the top layers after the original builders. Lots of examples of this. Back to the claim that there is nothing recognisable whatsoever in the megalithic building work in our frame of reference.

Edited by zoser

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IRONY!!!

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

Just couldn't help myself!!! Im such a sarcastic 'so and so' sometimes...

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Here are 2 pages from John Hemming's excellent book, "The Conquest of the Incas" :

Interesting that Alfredo Gamarra also identifies 3 distinct styles.

Apart from that though very little of the above extract is supportable. The dates, and attributing the work to the Inca is highly speculative and not supportable.

If someone could give a rational explanation as to why on the streets of Cuzco for example there is precision megalithic walls and only 3 meters away rough boulder and adobe work it may be a little more credible!

Other wise is goes on the same bookshelf as the other conjectures.

Edited by zoser

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:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

Just couldn't help myself!!! Im such a sarcastic 'so and so' sometimes...

Edit:

Your fine seeder. Don't worry.

Edited by zoser

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Feel free to forward constructive ideas by all means. So far all I see is evidence continuing to mount; slowly slowly catch the monkey is how I described it earlier.

My research time is limited now I'm back to work. Every time I look at new close up images of these stones new features like this seem to be revealed and nothing is suggesting anything else but intense heat.

Maybe I'll find some new features tonight. It's a great process and it's not relying on anyone's adding up; it does rely though on spotting detail.

Some of these dents and pockmarks could already have been present before the stones were cut from the quarry.

But weird as they may look, I still don't see them as clear proof of burning or excessive heat.

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No doubt they are much more earthquake proof. Is talking on behalf of the ancients really wise? Can you back this statement up? How many earthquakes did they actually experience? How do we know?

Two things Abe I think we need to be careful about. Assumption and translating everything into our terms. Their terms were very different as demonstrated by their totally baffling architecture. Just like you accuse me of using the word 'evidence'.

The Inca most probably did the top layers after the original builders. Lots of examples of this. Back to the claim that there is nothing recognisable whatsoever in the megalithic building work in our frame of reference.

I hope you also read that scan of the 2 pages from John Hemming's book, "The Conquest of the Incas".

He clearly says that what many think are truely 'ancient' and pre-Inca structures were still being build during Incan times. And that was proven by archeological research.

And the whole Andes shakes continuously: it is a 'young' mountain range still in the process of growing. That will not have changed much even if you go back 10,000 years.

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Interesting that Alfredo Gamarra also identifies 3 distinct styles.

Apart from that though very little of the above extract is supportable. The dates, and attributing the work to the Inca is highly speculative and not supportable.

If someone could give a rational explanation as to why on the streets of Cuzco for example there is precision megalithic walls and only 3 meters away rough boulder and adobe work it may be a little more credible!

Other wise is goes on the same bookshelf as the other conjectures.

Hemmings didn't make it up: he based his words on archeological research. The guy is a true and acknowledged specialist in ancient cultures of South America.

And I have given you an explanation (4 times now) why some structures look sophisticated and why others look common.

Think cathedral and your own house.

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:tu: Hats off to your passionate research, its good to see a mystery getting fleshed out with places and names! If zoser could put his heart into researching stuff, like a lot of us do, rather than just accepting the content of videos, we may see another side of zoser. Who knows Abe, you just may solve a riddle and bring to the world an amazing substance that is long forgotten about!!

Well, maybe I am just a guy with no life and all the time of the world, lol. I can't talk for Zoser: he appears to have a life, and thus no time to really delve deeper into this stuff.

But here is more.

Lichen and certain microbes are able to dissolve rocks like granite using oxalates, and the process is (as already mentioned) "chelation":

Biodeterioration of Stone in Tropical Environments: An Overview

by Rakesh Kumar,Anuradha V. Kumar

http://books.google....andstone&f=true

And back to a plant I think is the one we are looking for: Caladium.

(...) phytochemical analysis showed that caladium species had significantly higher levels (P < 0.05) of Oxalate (10.10 %) and cyanogenic glycosides (5.20 %) than the rest of the samples. The samples were found to be rich sources of macro minerals as well as some trace elements.

http://www.transcamp...2Dec200913.html

Cyanogenesis is the ability of some plants to

synthesize cyanogenic glycosides, which when

enzymically hydrolyzed, release cyanohydric acid

(HCN), known as prussic acid (Harborne, 1972,

1986, 1993).

http://www.scielo.br...n5/a06v43n5.pdf

http://www.botanical...cglycosides.htm

All The Parts Of The Caladium Bicolor Contain Toxic Substances

http://greensplant.b...or-contain.html

Caladium spp.

Family: Araceae

Malay Name: Keladi

Other Names: Mother-in-law plant, elephant’s ear, Angle-wings, Fancy-leaved Caladium, Candidum, Exposition, Pink cloud, Seagull, stoplight, Texas wonder, Caladium X hortulanum cv.caladium.

Information

These types of herbal plants have rhizomes. Daunya heart-shaped and has a green color and patterned red, white or other colors.

Use

Ornamental plant site

Poisoned

Toxic Part: Entire plant

Active ingredients: Calcium oxalate

Effects of Poisoning

Calcium oxalate is a sense of irritation with the glow and fire effects on the tongue, mouth and throat. Breathing difficulty occurs when swelling occurs at the pharyngeal tract. spasms in the abdomen and delirium. Other toxicity was reported numbness, nausea and vomiting.

Emergency Treatment

Clean the remaining plants from the body. Clean with soap and water if exposed to the skin. Gargle and drink water or milk if ingested as it can dissolve toxins in these plants. Sucking ice cubes to reduce pain in the mouth. Get medical attention immediately.

f14d2dbde7a610e13ed7911e1a83_grande.jpg

http://allabout-racu...ladium-spp.html

This is indeed some nasty weed.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Some of these dents and pockmarks could already have been present before the stones were cut from the quarry.

Unlikely.

But then if it was a handling mark why not discard the piece and start over? Manipulating these blocks clearly wasn't difficult. Suggests to me that it was done after initial build.

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I hope you also read that scan of the 2 pages from John Hemming's book, "The Conquest of the Incas".

He clearly says that what many think are truely 'ancient' and pre-Inca structures were still being build during Incan times. And that was proven by archeological research.

Proof is proof, conjecture is conjecture; I've only managed to find a few paragraphs of de La Vega, but from what I have read he clearly saw nothing but only wrote hearsay. I strongly suspect this guy is from the same camp.

I'm just watching a documentary of Gamarra's research. If he has some good insights I'll let you know.

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Unlikely.

But then if it was a handling mark why not discard the piece and start over? Manipulating these blocks clearly wasn't difficult. Suggests to me that it was done after initial build.

No, you have shown us very different protuberances.

There are those (like the horizontal ones on the stones of Ollantaytambo) that were very clearly human made. Either they used them for the attachment of ropes, or they used them as pivot points for levers (I had found a pic that showed exactly that, but lost it. No worries, I will find it again).

You say it was a handling mark, I say that some (not the Ollantaytambo ones) were there already. They found a layer of rock that suited their purpose. They split it to make building blocks. They noticed some of the blocks carried those already present and naturally formed protuberances. They still used these blocks because they would fit perfectly to the one that they spilt of from it.

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Proof is proof, conjecture is conjecture; I've only managed to find a few paragraphs of de La Vega, but from what I have read he clearly saw nothing but only wrote hearsay. I strongly suspect this guy is from the same camp.

I'm just watching a documentary of Gamarra's research. If he has some good insights I'll let you know.

Archeological proof has nothing to do with what some chronicler said.

If you only knew who John Hemmings was, you wouldn't have said what you just said.

.

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I think the last dozens of pages could be moved to the "Alternative Histories" forum.

All this, vitrification of stones, or chemically altering stones, herbs, birds, and so on....what has all that got to do with 'aliens'?

Not much, right?

That's unless one of you think 'aliens' used one of the techniques Zoser and I posted about.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Here are more pieces of the jigsaw puzzle.

In my summary on precision architecture I stated that the lips and steps in the stone wall joints were not intended but the result of different weight blocks acting on soft clay like stone.

Here is the proof in the form of blocks from a dismantled wall. The images are snapshots taken from a documentary summarising Gamarra's findings:

zoser32-1_zps95dcfa8e.jpg

zoser33-1_zpsef9a0e75.jpg

Here is one picture that you would most probably have seen from the youtube clip on the subject of vitrification. I didn't appreciate the significance of it until now.

zoser34-1_zps6b38c950.jpg

The shine is the vitrification effect again.

The striking thing is the depth of the moulding. This piece was again done when the stone was in a clay like condition and some moulding tool was run down the stone to create the snake effect. The stone to the far right of the block must have been subject to the heat of the whole block because it too is vitrified but it wasn't smoothed to the same degree with the flat moulding tool.

This is exactly the same effect you would get if a moulding tool was run across a piece of soft clay. Then smoothed with a flat implement.

Can this be explained chemically? It's too deep for that. Unless the stone was hacked out to a certain depth first. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here Abe.

It does look more and more to me like the result of heat however. We know that heat does this. We don't know that chemical does. We also don't know that they had the quantity of any chemical to carry out burning to this degree.

Another smoking gun.

Edited by zoser

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I think the last dozens of pages could be moved to the "Alternative Histories" forum.

All this, vitrification of stones, or chemically altering stones, herbs, birds, and so on....what has all that got to do with 'aliens'?

Not much, right?

That's unless one of you think 'aliens' used one of the techniques Zoser and I posted about.

.

Nice try Abe. Better look at the above post first.

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No, you have shown us very different protuberances.

There are those (like the horizontal ones on the stones of Ollantaytambo) that were very clearly human made. Either they used them for the attachment of ropes, or they used them as pivot points for levers (I had found a pic that showed exactly that, but lost it. No worries, I will find it again).

You say it was a handling mark, I say that some (not the Ollantaytambo ones) were there already. They found a layer of rock that suited their purpose. They split it to make building blocks. They noticed some of the blocks carried those already present and naturally formed protuberances. They still used these blocks because they would fit perfectly to the one that they spilt of from it.

The ones I produced were close ups. No ropes could be attached to those.

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Hemmings didn't make it up: he based his words on archeological research. The guy is a true and acknowledged specialist in ancient cultures of South America.

And I have given you an explanation (4 times now) why some structures look sophisticated and why others look common.

Think cathedral and your own house.

The explanations are not convincing Abe that's the problem. Regarding Hemming we need proof not more adherence to the party line. There is so much hear say that only proof will do it now. That is best acquired by looking at the evidence.

Edited by zoser

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Playing devil's advocate and looking to see how it could not have been heat, I came across this:

The same effect again. Handling marks, or mistakes show up all the time; whatever they were they are undeniably deep mould marks. Not chemically formed. Again as if something dug in to the clay like blocks. Just like as if someone put their foot into it and left a footprint. The evidence is everywhere.

zoser35-1_zpsd3dac690.jpg

The following image really proves the point. Another example of dismantled blocks showing the sinking in effect. Too deep for chemicals to penetrate. The whole block was soft and it just sank in too much.

zoser36_zpsd3e9570f.jpg

Edited by zoser

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Again on the same documentary the concept is demonstrated using some clay like material.

zoser37_zps447c4438.jpg

The following imprint is formed.

zoser38-1_zpsc8048d53.jpg

The same effect is seen in stone everywhere:

zoser39_zps8c8701ca.jpg

Edited by zoser

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So what does all this add up to?

Several indicators of intense heat.

Deep mould marks in solid rock all over Peru consistent with objects being pushed into the stone, both accidental and deliberate (see snake effect above ).

Bulging out effects in much larger blocks consistent with weight being exerted on soft material.

Vitrification which is known to be a side effect of intense heat.

Evidence of blocks from dismantled walls where deep prints have been made from heavy blocks on top. This now fully accounts for the precision joins.

Vitrification on unlevelled surfaces from quarrying areas. This must have been the result of initial cutting and not post chemical treatment.

That's all for tonight.

Z

Edited by zoser

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Well, maybe I am just a guy with no life and all the time of the world, lol. I can't talk for Zoser: he appears to have a life, and thus no time to really delve deeper into this stuff.

But here is more.

Lichen and certain microbes are able to dissolve rocks like granite using oxalates, and the process is (as already mentioned) "chelation":

Biodeterioration of Stone in Tropical Environments: An Overview

by Rakesh Kumar,Anuradha V. Kumar

http://books.google....andstone&f=true

And back to a plant I think is the one we are looking for: Caladium.

(...) phytochemical analysis showed that caladium species had significantly higher levels (P < 0.05) of Oxalate (10.10 %) and cyanogenic glycosides (5.20 %) than the rest of the samples. The samples were found to be rich sources of macro minerals as well as some trace elements.

http://www.transcamp...2Dec200913.html

Cyanogenesis is the ability of some plants to

synthesize cyanogenic glycosides, which when

enzymically hydrolyzed, release cyanohydric acid

(HCN), known as prussic acid (Harborne, 1972,

1986, 1993).

http://www.scielo.br...n5/a06v43n5.pdf

http://www.botanical...cglycosides.htm

All The Parts Of The Caladium Bicolor Contain Toxic Substances

http://greensplant.b...or-contain.html

Caladium spp.

Family: Araceae

Malay Name: Keladi

Other Names: Mother-in-law plant, elephant’s ear, Angle-wings, Fancy-leaved Caladium, Candidum, Exposition, Pink cloud, Seagull, stoplight, Texas wonder, Caladium X hortulanum cv.caladium.

Information

These types of herbal plants have rhizomes. Daunya heart-shaped and has a green color and patterned red, white or other colors.

Use

Ornamental plant site

Poisoned

Toxic Part: Entire plant

Active ingredients: Calcium oxalate

Effects of Poisoning

Calcium oxalate is a sense of irritation with the glow and fire effects on the tongue, mouth and throat. Breathing difficulty occurs when swelling occurs at the pharyngeal tract. spasms in the abdomen and delirium. Other toxicity was reported numbness, nausea and vomiting.

Emergency Treatment

Clean the remaining plants from the body. Clean with soap and water if exposed to the skin. Gargle and drink water or milk if ingested as it can dissolve toxins in these plants. Sucking ice cubes to reduce pain in the mouth. Get medical attention immediately.

f14d2dbde7a610e13ed7911e1a83_grande.jpg

http://allabout-racu...ladium-spp.html

This is indeed some nasty weed.

.

i grow these in my garden. they're beautiful! i can't imagine eating it by mistake though lol

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You can cut the fake drama, we've already found several sites where you can buy that book. Here's one for you: http://www.exoticind...volumes-IDJ479/

You shouldn't be surprised to learn that this has come up a time or two around here. Here's a thread that may interest you: http://www.unexplain...opic=85816&st=0

It came up in there, among several other threads, IIRC.

Harte

That wasnt drama neither fake. It was teasing.

Yes I was thinking on online.

Thanks anyway.

Btw nice try for providing that UM link because there are none answer on it. You could wrote in Vimana thread about Little redhood and wolf. That doesnt mean you find answer.

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Maybe they had that old "only God is perfect" mindset tht pervaded European thought and art for so long - you know the one, the intentionally making a mistake etc thst sort of thng, so for the builders no two blocks could be the same because only the gods were capable of perfection.

We were doing that? Didnt know that. In what period? Imagine if ignorance is reason for those polygonal blocks.

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