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Alphamale06

The Ancient Alien Theory Is True

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, metal works and smelting isn't sophisticated enough for this at those times,

What? Its widely accepted they poured molten copper into some of the I-clamp cutouts on top of the rocks... while other were hammered into shape

"Notable features at Pumapunku are I-shaped architectural cramps, which are composed of a unique copper-arsenic-nickel bronze alloy. These I-shaped cramps were also used on a section of canal found at the base of the Akapana pyramid at Tiwanaku.

These cramps were used to hold the blocks comprising the walls and bottom of stone-lined canals that drain sunken courts. I-cramps of unknown composition were used to hold together the massive slabs that formed Pumapunku's four large platforms. In the south canal of the Pumapunku, the I-shaped cramps were cast in place.

In sharp contrast, the cramps used at the Akapana canal were fashioned by the cold hammering of copper-arsenic-nickel bronze ingots.[9][12] The unique copper-arsenic-nickel bronze alloy is also found in metal artifacts within the region between Tiwanaku and San Pedro de Atacama during the late Middle Horizon around 600–900.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumapunku#Architecture

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And that is why I have posted about the Incas using hardened bronze/alloy. They found these tools, btw.

IV.2 Changes in Metallurgy

Previous to the Inca, two separate traditions of bronze metallurgy had developed - arsenic-copper alloys in Peru and Argentina, tin-copper alloys in the Bolivian Andes. (51) However, perhaps due to the transmission and mingling of various regional metallurgies in the Inca capital, tin bronze became the one favored metal throughout the whole Empire. From the mid-fifteenth century AD, the Inca Empire implemented the use of tin bronze alloys for domestic and household metal items throughout Peru, Bolivia, northwest Argentina, and northern Chile. Not only was tin added to local copper to form tin bronze, but adding it to existent arsenic bronze alloys was discovered to improve the workability of the metal and the hardness of the finished product. (52)

http://www.zum.de/wh...e/sje2.html#IV1

They were smart, these 'brown injuns'. At least lots smarter than some here..

Hey Zoser, wow, read this:

Two traditions seem to have developed alongside each other - one in northern Peru and Ecuador, and another in the Altiplano region of southern Peru, Bolivia and Chile. There is evidence for smelting of copper sulphide in the Altiplano region around the Early horizon. Evidence for this comes from copper slag recovered at several sites,[5] with the ore itself possibly coming from the south Chilean-Bolivian border. Extensive use of "portable" smelting kilns in the vicinity of Puma Punku, Bolivia and at three additional sites in Peru and Bolivia to manufacture, in situ, "I" beams as connectors to large stone blocks during the construction process represent a seemingly anomolous function for metal smelting. The reported chemical analysis of these metal pours is 95.15% copper 2.05% arsenic, 1.70% nickel, .84% silicon and .26% iron. The estimated age of these pours is between 8000 BCE and 500 CE.

http://en.wikipedia....lumbian_America

What?? 8000 BCE??? But of course, no link to some paper confirming that age. My guess: it's 800 BCE instead of 8000 BCE.

But that's Wiki.

.

Edited by Abramelin

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Please note everyone, we are not JUST talking about copper, as I posted above its:

"composed of a unique copper-arsenic-nickel bronze alloy".

edit, Abe beat me to it !!

:tu:

Edited by seeder
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How long is "too long"? Pyramids were not built in a couple of years by hundred man crews.

That depends on a lot of variables, what kind of string ? What kind of rock ? How big is the cut ?

This method requires small crews, to keep the tension on the abrasion contact, the more pair of hands the less efficient it is

Still I would say that metal saws would be much more effective in regards to the bigger stones, many many times more efficient

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That only works with 'dust grade' embeddings I believe, haven't really looked into it, metal works and smelting isn't sophisticated enough for this at those times, doubt that diamond dust was available, at least no evidence that I have come across.

You don't need diamond dust -- just the particles of any hard material. Sand would do. Diamonds just give the longest life so you don't have to buy a new expensive blade so often.

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You don't need diamond dust -- just the particles of any hard material. Sand would do. Diamonds just give the longest life so you don't have to buy a new expensive blade so often.

the diamond isn't just to have a better abrasive edge, it must hold itself together with the blade, if sand is used then the sand would break apart and the blade with it

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Please note everyone, we are not JUST talking about copper, as I posted above its:

"composed of a unique copper-arsenic-nickel bronze alloy".

edit, Abe beat me to it !!

:tu:

Don't worry: Zoser will 'forget' about that post right after he reads it, heh.

The most important line from that post is this one:

The reported chemical analysis of these metal pours is 95.15% copper 2.05% arsenic, 1.70% nickel, .84% silicon and .26% iron.

:yes:

It was hard alright. It wasn't just copper as Zoser keeps repeating.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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That depends on a lot of variables, what kind of string ? What kind of rock ? How big is the cut ?

Yep, but it will work.

This method requires small crews, to keep the tension on the abrasion contact, the more pair of hands the less efficient it is

That's right. This method is more about the speed of the string through the material. It helps to have another person clearing the cut regularly (otherwise you just end up grinding the abrasive and waste instead of the stone) and a bunch of people making string because it's going to wear out very quickly.

Still I would say that metal saws would be much more effective in regards to the bigger stones, many many times more efficient

Oh no doubt about that! This is the slowest way to cut through stone and I can't imagine any sane person wanting to do this, but it's very precise and doesn't require destroying expensive saws. It could have been used in certain cases where precision was desired.

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the diamond isn't just to have a better abrasive edge, it must hold itself together with the blade, if sand is used then the sand would break apart and the blade with it

The diamond is only to have an abrasive edge. And yes, the tiny diamonds do break off slowly destroying the blade with it. This exactly how modern diamond blades wear and why they have to be replaced so often, and why you don't want to use them when a chisel will work!

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You mean the radiocarbon dating of organic material UNDER still standing stones of Puma Punku is in doubt?

What you mean with 'knowledge ascension'? That their techniques improved over time?

If that's what you mean then I think in a way it did: the oldest culture building temples and large structures in the Americas was in Caral, Peru. It's as old as the Egyptian and Sumerian ones. But as far as I know, they didn't use stone like the later Andean cultures.

What is in doubt, or at least not known with certainty, is that any of those H-block stones, standing or not, remain in their exact, original location. It is also not known precisely how they were originally arranged. What IS known is that they all suffered from at least one severe disturbance, making indirect, inferential dating methods highly speculative.

'Knowledge ascension' refers to the hand-in-glove relationship between the rise in technological capability and the expansion of written communication and record keeping. Some might argue the rise of Greek civilization depended on it. Many of their most impressive structures were dedicated to preserving it.

Perhaps ancient Peruvians made the mistake of recording their advanced stoneworking technology on yellow sticky notes. It can get pretty windy there.

Edited by hacktorp

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That only works with 'dust grade' embeddings I believe, haven't really looked into it, metal works and smelting isn't sophisticated enough for this at those times, doubt that diamond dust was available, at least no evidence that I have come across.

The particles in my diamond blade are bigger than dust. About the size of fine sand. It's a cheap blade though so there aren't too many, and it's imbedded in binder affixed to the surface of a steel disc instead of solid sintered. The particles only have to be in the outer layer, which would fit with seeder's hypothetical. Common sand is mostly quartz so it would abrade anything from quartz on down. That's what stocks used. It's been suggested they crushed flint is more efficient.

My idea would be to use an adhesive to bind a layer of abrasive to the outside of the saw the same way, so the bronze wouldn't even touch the stone.

The only drawback would be possible softening from friction.

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What is in doubt, or at least not known with certainty, is that any of those H-block stones, standing or not, remain in their exact, original location. It is also not known precisely how they were originally arranged. What IS known is that they all suffered from at least one severe disturbance, making indirect, inferential dating methods highly speculative.

'Knowledge ascension' refers to the hand-in glove relationship between the rise in technological capability and the expansion of written communication and record keeping. Some might argue the rise of Greek civilization depended on it. Many of their most impressive structures were dedicated to preserving it.

Perhaps ancient Peruvians made the mistake of recording their advanced stoneworking technology on yellow sticky notes. It can get pretty windy there.

"What the Inca had were quipu, a complicated system of knotted cords of different colors. Many of these quipus (also spelled khipus) were destroyed by the Spanish conquistadors in the 16th century, but approximately 200 of them dating no earlier than about 650 AD have been found. Although archaeologists do not all agree about the function of the knotted strings, one fairly compelling argument is that the quipu was a method of record keeping.

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What is in doubt, or at least not known with certainty, is that any of those H-block stones, standing or not, remain in their exact, original location. It is also not known precisely how they were originally arranged. What IS known is that they all suffered from at least one severe disturbance, making indirect, inferential dating methods highly speculative.

'Knowledge ascension' refers to the hand-in glove relationship between the rise in technological capability and the expansion of written communication and record keeping. Some might argue the rise of Greek civilization depended on it. Many of their most impressive structures were dedicated to preserving it.

Perhaps ancient Peruvians made the mistake of recording their advanced stoneworking technology on yellow sticky notes. It can get pretty windy there.

Those H-blocks are made of red sandstone. You know that, right?

It's not granite.

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so....who will look up the exact phrase: 'pillow-faced architecture', and then report back here? the top link way be well be wiki... on the Inca

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Those H-blocks are made of red sandstone. You know that, right?

It's not granite.

The H-blocks are gray andesite.

The platform foundation blocks are red sandstone.

Many people are not aware of this distinction.

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That depends on a lot of variables, what kind of string ? What kind of rock ? How big is the cut ?

This method requires small crews, to keep the tension on the abrasion contact, the more pair of hands the less efficient it is

The devices I've seen, mainly using wire, were configured as a bow saw. No more than two people were needed to operate it.

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The H-blocks are gray andesite.

The platform foundation blocks are red sandstone.

Many people are not aware of this distinction.

You have a link?

I was talking from memory, so I may be wrong.

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Proof

Proven

Evidence

Theory

Hypothesis

Logic

Logical

Stone Age

Vitrification

Copper

Bronze

Granite

Logistics

Spanish activity in South America

Weathering

Abrasion

Sand

There you go zoser. A short list to get started with. These are words and ideas that you have often misused or misrepresented many times during the entirety of this thread. You would do well to acquire the actual definition of these words and concepts to expand your obviously limited and garbled vocabulary. You might then be on par with some of the other posters here.

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This is all getting way too technical. We need more videos!

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Ok let me explain a theory on 'pillow-faced architecture'

I found the phrase inadvertently, but it links direct to the Inca in wiki, so hows that for a co-incidence.

If the theory is true, it ties in a lot of zosers questions and solves a lot of issues. But it ESPECIALLY DISCOUNTS ALIENS

I will post the wiki link after my take on the matter.

Essentially then, you want to build a precise wall. You have basic tools for cutting rocks but how to finely shape them?

Well, you get a rock roughly the shape of the hole you wish to fill, you then cover the rock in clay and get a rough fit. The clay is left to harden naturally, (or not maybe)...and so it can simply sanded, very easily, until a precise fit/joint is made. This means less work of course and easy to change the shape by the sanding.

So rather than try to shape hard stone, you are in fact sanding hardened clay, wrapped round a rough stone... and that can be done in minutes.

Or no sanding whatsoever if you fit the stones with the clay still soft...

BUT the issue then is....if the stones really are red sandstone....what happened to the clay?

Can clay turn into a form of sandstone? If the clay was full of sand 'does' that make it a sandstone? (Bear in mind clay can be red)

This would even support zosers ideas of pock marks in the stones surfaces, although in his theory the stones were softened

BUT IT WOULD explain nicely a whole bunch of apparent anomalies

Now for wiki

"Another building method was called “pillow-faced” architecture. Pillow faced building was achieved by using fired adobe bricks and mud mortar. The Incas would then sand large, finely shaped stones coated in mud and clay. Then they would fit the bricks and stones together using the mud mortar into jigsaw like patterns. Pillow-faced architecture was typically used for temples and royal places like Machu Picchu".

http://en.wikipedia....ruction_methods

solved?

.

Edited by seeder

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This is all getting way too technical. We need more videos!

I want to watch a video with Ancient Aliens carving rock.

Or just a photo of their tools.

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Or just a photo of their tools.

that sounds naughty :w00t:

;

Edited by seeder
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Seeder, some of the blocks are HUGE, like high as a 2/3 storey building (Ollantaytambo).

Ollantaytambo_w.jpg

Edited by Abramelin
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that sounds naughty :w00t:

I already posted something 'naughty', but I think no one clicked the link, lol.

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and to answer my own question

"Sand is loose unconsolidated material having particle size between silt and pebbles (1/16 to 2mm). When held together by chemical cement or by clay, they are called sandstone"

http://people.ku.edu/~stalder/KS-sand.html

:tu:

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